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Vlad Impaler
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Posted - 2004.01.26 20:33:00 -
[1]
I mean pirates just protect and defend gates while alliances do that to entire regions. So what is the difference? Should alliances now be looked down upon as pirates are? Seems to be a double standard to me.
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Gyrn Fzirth
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Posted - 2004.01.26 20:41:00 -
[2]
The key difference is player pirates camp gates to kill anyone wherever they happen to be - their sole purpose is to kill for loot/pleasure. Alliances protect their chosen territory in as effective a manner as they can muster.
If you go north past umi-kk (0.0 many jumps in) you are fair game for PA considering the sheer number of pirate spies (n00b alts etc) that try to infiltrate the region. That was a rule instantiated to protect the venal region and it's affiliate corps.
You wouldn't find PA (for example) camping Aunenen (0.4 right next to high sec space) killing anyone that passes, yet pirate corps (spvd and epa in particular) do exactly that.
Hopefully, now, the difference is clear. If not, feel free to fly through Orvolle, Aunenen, Aurohunen etc and see who tries to gank you. ;)
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Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
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Vlad Impaler
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Posted - 2004.01.26 20:45:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Alliances protect their chosen territory in as effective a manner as they can muster.
Well pirates protect their chosen gates in as effective manner as they can muster so no I do not see the difference. If I am hearing you right you say its ok to cut off a whole region to players but not a single gate.....
kinda lame if you ask me
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Gyrn Fzirth
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Posted - 2004.01.26 20:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gyrn Fzirth on 26/01/2004 20:54:16
Quote:
Quote:
Alliances protect their chosen territory in as effective a manner as they can muster.
Well pirates protect their chosen gates in as effective manner as they can muster so no I do not see the difference. If I am hearing you right you say its ok to cut off a whole region to players but not a single gate.....
kinda lame if you ask me
You don't see the difference between "protecting" a gate in empire space from n00bs, shuttles and indies of any corporation trying to pass to other empire spaces and protecting a claimed 0.0 territory, which, incidentally was open to _all_ traffic prior to pirate corps coming in and spying/ganking indies of our member corps (only recently was the upper Venal region closed to all non-PA traffic?)
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Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.01.26 20:56:00 -
[5]
We're freedom fighters. We ensure that no one comes though our gates.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Vlad Impaler
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Posted - 2004.01.26 20:58:00 -
[6]
No I dont. Your a hipocrit
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Gyrn Fzirth
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Posted - 2004.01.26 21:08:00 -
[7]
Quote:
We're freedom fighters. We ensure that no one comes though our gates.
*snicker* in this sense we're the same - we protect our gates, too. One of the _differences_ between rats and alliance players is this: our gates don't change. For example, PA recently closed upper Venal (north of umi-kk.)
Rats might be "protecting" Orvolle one hour, Aunenen the next and Aurohunen the hour after that 
Another difference - our protectorate is deep in 0.0. On the other hand, rats claim gates in empire space in an attempt to kill people on agent missions, transports etc - in short they purposefully target non-combatants in an area that's MADE for n00bs (Aunenen is only a few hops from 1.0 space.) Remember Sarum Prime when it was .4 sec?
Vlad: I reiterate my suggestion that you fly around in Orvolle, Aurohunen or Aunenen and see who tries to jump you. Those that do are rats ;)
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Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.01.26 21:12:00 -
[8]
Yes, you do. Just ask any newbie you have ganked. You only say: It's a warzone and threaten them with being on your silly KOS lists.
Only a newbie would care and not mention your practices.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Gyrn Fzirth
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Posted - 2004.01.26 21:17:00 -
[9]
Quote:
No I dont. Your a hipocrit
*snicker* That would be "You're" as in "you are" and "hypocrite" as in "says one thing does another."
I reiterate my original suggestion that you fly around in the rat hotspots in empire space (Aunenen, Aurohunen, Orvolle among others.) Hopefully your ignorance will be cleared after you buy a new ship and clone for doing nothing other than flying around ostensibly empire-protected space.
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Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
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Vlad Impaler
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Posted - 2004.01.26 21:18:00 -
[10]
Well I have had Bladerunner guys shoot at me before so.........
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Gyrn Fzirth
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Posted - 2004.01.26 21:27:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Yes, you do. Just ask any newbie you have ganked. You only say: It's a warzone and threaten them with being on your silly KOS lists.
Only a newbie would care and not mention your practices.
Our "warzone" (north of umi-kk) is only kos to any non-PA because rats like you were harrassing non-combatants (indies and such.) Had rats never aggressed the region would still be open.
In any case, your baiting is insignificant. The original poster asked for differences and I've pointed out several quite large ones. It's up to him and to other readers to form their own opinions. I reiterate my original suggestion to Vlad and anyone else wishing to discern the differences between rats and PA alliance in particular: fly around in Orvolle, Aunenen, Aurohunen, all in empire space, and see who tries to jump you. Those are rats in all their.... glory?
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Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
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crice
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Posted - 2004.01.26 21:38:00 -
[12]
Quote:
The key difference is player pirates camp gates to kill anyone wherever they happen to be - their sole purpose is to kill for loot/pleasure. Alliances protect their chosen territory in as effective a manner as they can muster.
If you go north past umi-kk (0.0 many jumps in) you are fair game for PA considering the sheer number of pirate spies (n00b alts etc) that try to infiltrate the region. That was a rule instantiated to protect the venal region and it's affiliate corps.
You wouldn't find PA (for example) camping Aunenen (0.4 right next to high sec space) killing anyone that passes, yet pirate corps (spvd and epa in particular) do exactly that.
Hopefully, now, the difference is clear. If not, feel free to fly through Orvolle, Aunenen, Aurohunen etc and see who tries to gank you. ;)
WOW YOU GOT IT. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. But you still can't really tell can you? Why?
[The key difference is player pirates camp gates to kill anyone wherever they happen to be - their sole purpose is to kill for loot/pleasure.]
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.01.26 22:11:00 -
[13]
Regional alliance are very fast to begin screaming alt.. In fact, that's all they can do.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Insane Angel
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Posted - 2004.01.26 22:20:00 -
[14]
Quote:
We're freedom fighters. We ensure that no one comes though our gates.
Podkilled people cause less lag.
The underlined and words in bold are clear enough to me the intentions between pirate and alliance. 80% of the "good" corps are allowed to pass through some the alliances regional space.
Pirates.... well the above says it all.
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Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2004.01.26 22:47:00 -
[15]
Whenever non alliance ships are detected in PA space and are not showing any kind of hostility, communication is established to determine that persons intensions. If they are lost or unaware that they are in restricted airspace, we ask them to leave. Most are very pleasant to deal with and leave immediately. However, some are unreachable and their ships are unfortunately destroyed.
In the case of an actual new player exploring eve that looses a ship at our hands, I try to replace that ship and clone free of charge with equivalents or upgrades.
THAT is the difference. |
dalman
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Posted - 2004.01.26 22:49:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Is there a difference between pirates and players in alliances?
Is there a difference between Vlad Impaler and a troll?
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Vlad Impaler
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Posted - 2004.01.26 22:52:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vlad Impaler on 26/01/2004 22:53:09
Quote:
Is there a difference between Vlad Impaler and a troll?
So a debatable subject then becomes the troll of the hour? You must be one of those persons in an alliance.
EDIT: You ass
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:02:00 -
[18]
Well, this line of yours pretty much says it all:
"pirates just protect and defend gates"
You should rather view alliances as states.
And they have different policies on boarder control.
The main problem is that all alliances are in a state of war atm. And as RL states would do in war, so does the alliances ingame.
The alliances can't function as intended to outsiders atm.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:02:00 -
[19]
Well all i ask them todo is to pay me and if they dont respond on that i kill them
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:17:00 -
[20]
I like to kill stuff, label it what you like i don't really really care.
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Lockheed
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:25:00 -
[21]
Quote:
I mean pirates just protect and defend gates while alliances do that to entire regions. So what is the difference? Should alliances now be looked down upon as pirates are? Seems to be a double standard to me.
the only thing double in here is the character your posting with. This is just another example of skills demonstrating his alt power.
________________
On a pale horse. |
crice
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:27:00 -
[22]
Quote:
I like to kill stuff, label it what you like i don't really really care.
An Honest Response! Bravo KIAINZ!!!
Crice
Founder of the Phoenix Alliance
Member of the Foresaken Empire
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Lockheed
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:28:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Well, this line of yours pretty much says it all:
"pirates just protect and defend gates"
You should rather view alliances as states.
And they have different policies on boarder control.
The main problem is that all alliances are in a state of war atm. And as RL states would do in war, so does the alliances ingame.
The alliances can't function as intended to outsiders atm.
Exactally, well said.
In war you have the two sides fighting, LOOTERS are shot on sight. Who be known as looters matey? give you a hint they say, arrrr. the name they were given starts with a p and ends with an irate. no guts, they only seek fame, glory, fortune. psstt they dont hunt much alone.
________________
On a pale horse. |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:32:00 -
[24]
Quote:
I like to kill stuff, label it what you like i don't really really care.
Thank god for some honesty.
This argument has been going on for ages. There is no difference between pirates and alliancies which show in their actions, only in their intentions.
I want to kill a hauler to get loot.
NNNNNVA want to kill a hauler to protect their space and get loot.
Some noobs do enter into 0.0, but not alot, I do pay back for noobs ships and stuff, but only if I know they are a for real noob. And id imajine thats what the NNNNNNNNVA do, as I dont wanna f*ck a noob over, he got no isk
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Keenon
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Posted - 2004.01.26 23:39:00 -
[25]
Quote:
I mean pirates just protect and defend gates while alliances do that to entire regions. So what is the difference? Should alliances now be looked down upon as pirates are? Seems to be a double standard to me.
simple answer-NO THERE IS NO DIFERENCE
longer answer- the only thing is that the pirates are honest about what they are doing while the alliances try to put everything in velvet.
They both extract a toll - pirates do it at the gate, alliances do it in the (clause) of mining permits.
Oh and u shouldnt listen to some of those peeps answering u here, because unlike most here iv been in an alliance and im a pirate now.
That means i can make a comparison, i dont GUESS like most of the peeps here.
Help keep carebear population under control!!!!POD U LATER
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Help keep carebear population under control!!!! POD U LATER |
Drutort
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Posted - 2004.01.27 00:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Drutort on 27/01/2004 00:21:58
It really sucks that people cant tell the difference.
So what you are saying is, if an alliance becomes a state or is recognized, (which soon that will happen with the new alliance tools whenever they come into play) that they are same as pirates/criminals/terrorists?
You must be smoking something, if that alliance has a military or police and they lay down the law in there state, and you do not wish to fallow it what the hell do you think will happen to you? No really WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN? Have it go your way? You must be stupid for thinking that.
Yes each alliance deals with trespassers differently, some donÆt care they will kill you on sight, it said donÆt trespass that area, your to dumb well you will pay for your foolish actions, at times with your ship/clone
Other alliances give you a chance to walk away and not lose anything, that is all up to them, which one is right or wrong isnÆt the point, the point is it was stated that they are an alliance and that territory under there control, and when an alliance is recognized then they are a state, and like any other race/state in the current eve world.
The major difference is that alliances claim the 0.0 area which is free for anyone who can hold it, the difference in pirates is they will go into controlled areaÆs and exploit the system or take advantage that being low security areaÆs hence why they can blow up almost all the players there with little resistance, because they found a weakness in an alliance/state/race whatever.
I will not go into detail as to how the pirates work, but they can be nice or just plan bad, just like an alliance can give you a chance to walk out or they could have warned you only once and if you enter there protected area you die.
Do you call a police or some other form of military same as a terrorist or a criminal? No I think not, if you can tell the difference there then it is the same exact difference in here. Both kill people, the difference is in the principles and the reasons behind there doing, one protects others and upholds a law, the other murders and takes whatever they please from anyone for there own benefit, and always do so that will favor there odds.
Right now it is a bit fuzzy but it is still quite clear in the differences between a pirate/alliance.
Later when CCP/DevÆs introduce more player owned things and more ways to control and take over stuff then you will see the true meaning of alliances, and you will also see the true colors behind many of the organizations.
It is the very basic core of the individuals that defines who they are, they might do similar things but it is still the core of there being that defines them even if it is blurred at times.
I do not wish to have RL examples or analogies BUT they have to come into play, because if you cant tell the difference IRL, then there is no way you could tell the difference in a GAME.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Skillz
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Posted - 2004.01.27 01:17:00 -
[27]
Soon there will be player deployed modules. Guess who's the ones that can afford it?
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Sinikad
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Posted - 2004.01.27 02:34:00 -
[28]
"Right now it is a bit fuzzy but it is still quite clear in the differences between a pirate/alliance."
If you are a miner / producer based in empire space, there is absolutely no functional difference.
If you go into 0.0 alliance space, alliance players will kill you if they can.
If you go into 0.0 pirate controlled space, pirates will kill you if they can.
95% of the time, they (both) will pod you.
Their function from that perspective is the same - they are trying to stop you from going where you want / need to go. They will both take whatever loot they can from your wrecked ship. Which one is worse, the one that needs the loot they take or the one that doesn't?
Paint whatever colors on it you like, it's still the same thing happening with the same result. It's just the way the game is played.
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Gyrn Fzirth
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Posted - 2004.01.27 02:39:00 -
[29]
Quote:
"Right now it is a bit fuzzy but it is still quite clear in the differences between a pirate/alliance."
If you are a miner / producer based in empire space, there is absolutely no functional difference.
If you go into 0.0 alliance space, alliance players will kill you if they can.
If you go into 0.0 pirate controlled space, pirates will kill you if they can.
95% of the time, they (both) will pod you.
Their function from that perspective is the same - they are trying to stop you from going where you want / need to go. They will both take whatever loot they can from your wrecked ship. Which one is worse, the one that needs the loot they take or the one that doesn't?
Paint whatever colors on it you like, it's still the same thing happening with the same result. It's just the way the game is played.
I've highlighted the relevant info above. The thing that you missed was the alliances will _only_ kill you in 0.0 controlled space. Rats on the other hand will kill you anywhere, even 1.0 if they can get away with it.
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Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
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Sinikad
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Posted - 2004.01.27 03:41:00 -
[30]
"The thing that you missed was the alliances will _only_ kill you in 0.0 controlled space. Rats on the other hand will kill you anywhere, even 1.0 if they can get away with it."
I really haven't had any problems from pirates in > 0.0 space. For the most part the only thing I see are frigate rats or newb rats.
And yes, there are a few systems that pirates have staked out as their own that are above 0.0 Aurohonen, Oroville, probably some others.
They are just run-of-the-mill your average low sec system. There's nothing I need there that I can't get somewhere else, probably cheaper.
Alliances, otoh, have all the valuable ores and stations located in 0.0 blocked off. You might be able to get to the ore from empire space with good planning and prep, but trying to use their stations would be suicide. They control the valuable ores and hence the economy. Hence, the real reason they are there.
-Sinikad
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