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Rabbitual Ferrier
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Posted - 2007.07.19 16:18:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 18/07/2007 17:05:58
Originally by: St0mper fellow eve-residents. if the cops dont uphold the law in places they are surposed to, how can they even begin to justify the taxes we are paying in this game, its an outrage taking loads of isk everytime, but only upholding the law and protection they are paid for when they are not eating donuts or out for coffe. its common knowledge that if you loose mods/ships during a glitch in the server you will get you money back, a glitch is excatly what has happend here. a player flying in no corps that could be at war, losing his ship, no matter what the loos is, it should be paied back. this is a game yes,,,, only a game and its fun, but as in every game there are guidelines and rules as to what you can and cannot do... if not eveyone would be god in every game. its also common knowledge that the cops are there for the protection of new players or people who just wants to sit back relax and mine or run missions, without thinking about the worries that a pirate could jump them and take away everything they have been working so hard to gain. just how do you justify taking money from people but not protecting them when its needed, get those damn ships up and running ccp they are there for our protection.... WTF sort this out!! we just want to have fun in the best game eve-r and know that we can fly safe somewhere. and hunt for sports in other locations...
If you were in Mogodishu, carrying $1,000,000,000 worth of the Queen's Crown Jewels, would you call the local police department to arrange security or would you hire a security team?
Same scenario different value, if you were in Mogodishu carrying 5 United Nations donated computers for the local grade school, would you call the local police department to arrange security or would you hire a security team?
I'd rate Mogadishu at about 0.0 space, where law is enforced by who ever has the strength to hold the district.
1.0 is much more akin to a nice wealthy country town in hampshire (with 0.5 being say Southampton ). But the key point remains however that Eve is not safe, just degrees of safety. But then occassionally little safe towns are rocked by violent crime (and often home to successful criminals).
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Kirith Kodachi
Omen Incorporated Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.07.19 16:39:00 -
[122]
Thanatos BPO.... Destroyer. Thanatos BPO.... ... Destroyer.
I'm sorry, I just can't get past that part.
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Sean Dillon
Caldari Naughty 40
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Posted - 2007.07.19 16:40:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Lorimer
Print + Secure Can + Warp to 0
or even
Print + Secure Can
That way the nasty "piwate's" with cargo scanners can't get ya
Keep dreaming
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gfldex
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.19 16:51:00 -
[124]
Originally by: DILLI GAF This is suppose to be a ROLE PLAYING GAME meaning we chose the path we want to follow.
In a role paying game there will be a game master. This game master will challenge you. He will most prob. be an experienced player and usually quite capable of both playing the game and creating content.
What we call GMs in EVE are actually umpires. They do not provide content. So where does the challenge come from?
High sec as it is now does help new or not so capable players going. It's a good place to get into the game and learn what is possible. You will not get hit as often as else where. But the rules that make EVE unique apply everywhere and to everybody. Even to you and even in high sec. --
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Tegashi
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Posted - 2007.07.19 17:00:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Tegashi on 19/07/2007 17:02:47 Edited by: Tegashi on 19/07/2007 16:59:52 I've only been playing a few months but now spend most of my time in alliance 0.0 space. I have to admit, I've experienced more attacks while running errands or picking up skills in High-Security Empire space then the 0.0 areas where I spend most of my time.
I have to agree with the OP. Players who wish respite from the cut-throat PvP element should be allowed that peace of mind in High-Security. It isn't like it's an even exchange on the end of the Pirate since those targets they choose are typically a high-yield, low risk victim with little means of defending themselves and can technically be viewed as abuse of a game mechanic.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.07.19 18:40:00 -
[126]
"Its sometimes unbelieveble how lazy people are, I scored a high sec kill last week where about 700 million in loot blow up and another 500 mill isk left for me including 3 snake implants."
Right and your not lazy for camping a gate safely in empire suicide ganking tomake fast easy ISK....the effort it takes to do that is simply overwhelming you power gamer you........
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.07.19 18:47:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Kirith Kodachi Thanatos BPO.... Destroyer. Thanatos BPO.... ... Destroyer.
I'm sorry, I just can't get past that part.
Yeah, I know. Kind of smells Ebay-ish to me... How the heck can you play for 3 years and not know better?
------------------- WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED |
Vitrael
Stormriders Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.07.19 19:16:00 -
[128]
THANATOS BPO?! DESTROYER?!
*HEAD ASPLODE*
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Kim Chee
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.19 22:16:00 -
[129]
Originally by: IONZ Petition Body I've been playing EVE for a long time without really understanding it. I assume that CONCORD in EVE must act just like "The Police" in "Real-Life", because I can't imagine anything different. My shiny new alt got killed and I lost a bunch of stuff to a high-security pirate. WAAAAAH! That's not FAIR!
/me pats old n00b on the head.
CONCORD are not law enforcement officers, sworn to protect and serve. They are peace-keepers. Their job is to maintain the peace by stopping conflicts. If you shot someone, you are prevented from being able to shoot anyone by having your weapons (your ship) removed.
If someone tricked you into shooting them, or if one of your drones (for which YOU are responsible) decided to shoot someone, then YOU are the aggressor and YOU will be controlled.
If someone killed you by using a suicide ship... well... they are no longer a threat since they're dead. Too bad their associate picked up all your loot, but hey... too bad you didn't have an associate to sa***uard it.
Moral of the story: don't fly what you can't afford t o lose. If you think you look a bit too juicy, perhaps you should hire someone with a freighter and escorts to move your stuff for you.
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DILLI GAF
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Posted - 2007.07.19 22:54:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Kim Chee
Originally by: IONZ Petition Body I've been playing EVE for a long time without really understanding it. I assume that CONCORD in EVE must act just like "The Police" in "Real-Life", because I can't imagine anything different. My shiny new alt got killed and I lost a bunch of stuff to a high-security pirate. WAAAAAH! That's not FAIR!
/me pats old n00b on the head.
CONCORD are not law enforcement officers, sworn to protect and serve. They are peace-keepers. Their job is to maintain the peace by stopping conflicts. If you shot someone, you are prevented from being able to shoot anyone by having your weapons (your ship) removed.
If someone tricked you into shooting them, or if one of your drones (for which YOU are responsible) decided to shoot someone, then YOU are the aggressor and YOU will be controlled.
If someone killed you by using a suicide ship... well... they are no longer a threat since they're dead. Too bad their associate picked up all your loot, but hey... too bad you didn't have an associate to sa***uard it.
Moral of the story: don't fly what you can't afford t o lose. If you think you look a bit too juicy, perhaps you should hire someone with a freighter and escorts to move your stuff for you.
Hey knumb knutz... If you are going to quote someone why dont you use what was actually said. The quote you are referring to never existed.
You know... People really are stupid in the EvE community. There was never any whinning going on. I lost my cargo. I got killed. Oh well. I can replace what i lost.
The purpose of this thread was to get feed back on the over all issue. I am not the only one bringing this up so it was to get feed back.
I have learned that the game has changed and I will adapt. no big deal.
I bet most of the people in this thread couldn't say I lost a Thanotos BPO and still be ok. I am financial well off so I am not worried about the loss. I was more concerned about where EvE is going. I wanted to learn what everyone had to say about the situation.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.19 23:42:00 -
[131]
Well, I wonder only about ONE thing.
WHY does a player that can afford a thanatos BPC haul it in a destroyer ? I mean, seriously, it's not like you NEVER heard of suicide ganking in highsec... have you ?
I am paranoid about hauling more than 100 mil worth of stuff in a tanked Badger (think 5k shield HP recharge in aprox 200 sec and high resists) and I'm more than seriously contemplating training up for Bustard before I move more than 200 mil in one haul, EVER. As for valuable small stuff, it's usually in an IStabed inty, or even a covops WITH a covops cloak, which DOES get activated even in highsec each jump.
I've never BEEN ganked yet, probably just because of that.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
cal nereus
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.07.19 23:59:00 -
[132]
Edited by: cal nereus on 19/07/2007 23:59:04 A 100% successful method I've found for not dying or losing ships is to never undock. :-) With the exception of accidentally reprocessing everything you own or falling for a scam, you will not lose anything if you never undock. True story.
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DILLI GAF
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:05:00 -
[133]
To be honest with you... I had heard of suicide ganging but dint really know the details. I was always under the impression concord was there to prevent that.
My stupidity... I learned and have now started reading more in the forums. I never got involved in the forums prior so a lot of knowledge has been gained recently.
But if you think about it... Who do suicide gankers look for? I figured a Destroyer... No one would go after it. It was a disguise. Oh well... They got me this time. I garuntee it wont happen again though.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:20:00 -
[134]
Originally by: DILLI GAF Who do suicide gankers look for? I figured a Destroyer... No one would go after it. It was a disguise.
See, there was your logic's mistake. Suicide ganker gangs just have a few small "scout" ships (usually equipped with passive targetters) scattered all across the important routes, scanning EVERYBODY they can that passes through.
They learned a long time ago that people try to be as "inconspicuous" as possible, so they adapted a lot faster
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
dhav kincaide
Caldari Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:23:00 -
[135]
I think the only thing I'd want to see change is the insurance payouts: if you get killed by CONCORD, you should get either a fraction (50% or less) or nothing when your ship blows up. You're doing something to break the law/peace/whatever, why the hell are you getting paid for it?
Otherwise.. commmon sense and being at the keyboard will get folks through most any situation intact. Leave CONCORD and Empire like it is.
(well, you could wipe out Jita, but.. )
-dhav kincaide QI nooblet |
DILLI GAF
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:24:00 -
[136]
Here is where I am uneducated as well. When you scan someone don't you have to lock them? Doesn't this act as a form of aggression and Concord would react to it?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:33:00 -
[137]
Originally by: DILLI GAF Here is where I am uneducated as well. When you scan someone don't you have to lock them? Doesn't this act as a form of aggression and Concord would react to it?
Yes, you have to lock them... BUT... they don't need to know you have them targetted. Scanning someone (ship fit, cargo) is NOT a hostile act.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
redialer
Minmatar Red Army Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:47:00 -
[138]
Quote: There is an exploit out there that CCP is not addressing
red1
FREEDOM |
redialer
Minmatar Red Army Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:51:00 -
[139]
CCP please post or link to the exact PVP rules regarding high sec space, since the latest RC1. red1
FREEDOM |
Wagstaff
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:22:00 -
[140]
I don't see what the fuss is about. Never mind Mogadishu, you can get shot and robbed in the safest town in the US or Europe. The police there might well do their utmost to catch the guy, but they don't magically prevent crime. If you're arguing realism, high sec space is fine like it is.
If you aren't arguing realism, and you just want to be completely safe in high sec, well, that doesn't seem to be what this game is about...
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redialer
Minmatar Red Army Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:28:00 -
[141]
so I can shoot lol :p red1
FREEDOM |
redialer
Minmatar Red Army Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:34:00 -
[142]
seems fair I supppose red1
FREEDOM |
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Yipsilanti
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:37:00 -
[143]
This thread has been cleaned.
Please be respectful of other posters. I will not tolerate spam. Play nice and please keep discussion on topic.
-Yipsilanti ___
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Eric Lupanasia
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:09:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 Even though you opt'ed to use the noob char in a destroyer, you had a 99.9% chance to avoided this result by...
ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME
Can I get a "hallelujah"! -------------------
"There can be good done while profiting." |
Ominus Decre
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.20 04:45:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Ominus Decre on 20/07/2007 04:47:30 PvP in high security should be not only welcomed but encouraged. The new character experiance should have a means to introduce players to "pirating" and show them how beneficial it is to the whole of the game.
Not many people can grasp the concept of an open PvP environment let alone one which bases all assets on consumables. It's CCP's responsibility to not only show players that PvP in thier game is fun but to also encourage the engagements.
I suppose the Faction PvP areas which had been put on hold would facilitate this.
Risk Vs. Reward. This should be the first lesson in a new player experiance. It should be taught early on that there's a certain amount of return to be had from the risk you take.
High security space can easily permit for regional PvP areas between borders. The trick would be to grant pilots who engage into this areas with predetermied ship types (upto tier 2 frigates; upto tier 3 frigates; etc) an equal return from not only the efforts but also their losses.
While this type of game play which would encourage PvP could be "farmable" there's a fallback method governed by the Risk Vs. Reward.
Factional warfare can also supply a substanital return to industrialists who comply with agent requests. Having an agent demand X number of reasources to buld warships in a contested region while having a 10:1 multiplyer on the payout should be encouraging. Doing the work to build a single Punisher could be represented in "enough minerals to complete a production run of 10 ships" in terms of the RPG element.
Combining the Roll Play elements from dynamic agent storylines into a PvP type of risk is the real challenge.
Too many, myself included, have an extremely negatice view towards PvP. Reason being: A large majority of online games which encorporate PvP tens to exhibit an astronmical percentage of "4$$ hatery". For this reason most will never try.
EVE is different. I more then enjoy pvP in EVE more then anything prevriously developed. The trick is, to show others how it is fun.
Perversion: |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.20 10:48:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I am a Carebear. I have never ganked, scammed, stole, looted, etc anyone else in game. I never will. I whine (or DID whine) about Privateers. I run from wardecs, I don't engage when someone steals my ore, I am in a NPC corp now because I believe the wardec system is broken. I don't go to LowSec and have never been to 0.0 nor do I want to.
I have never been ganked (not that I don't think it will happen some day), I have never been scammed. Someday those things will happen because of the nature of the game, but when it does the ones that do it won't make any ISK; because I am careful. And because of players like you whining about it and warned me about such things before I had anything worth stealing There, I have admitted you have done a community service...
Ki An and I argue about just about every topic, our viewpoints are complete opposites in most things. Some of those topics have been borderline unpleasant and I have half-expected a visit in game for a few things I've said
Except this one. Seriously, I am glad you know where you went wrong and you are not quitting. But this is NOT a game issue; it is a player issue. You have been playing for over 2 years and YOU KNEW THE RISKS. And yet you still stuck incredibly valuable stuff in a ship that is made of tissue paper and then flew the slowest way you could, giving time to scan your cargo. Honestly? I would have been tempted...
And that is from a certified Carebear that has never shot at another player.
/me check don't recall a Anaalys Fluuterby alt
Really, beside me being a little less Carebearish, Anaalys post reflect perfectly my thoughts and position.
I move up to 1 hundred milllions isk in a industrial while AFK in hi sec, with the implicit assumption that I am risking a gank (fairly improbable as teh probable return for the ganker would be only some teens of milion, hardly worth it). I can shallow the eventual loss and I feel repayed on the time I can use for others things.
When I am moving things worth more I use better ships and stay at the keyboard all the time. Even that is not a guarantee as a big enough gang will kill me faster than I can warp sometime. It is all part of the game.
As long that the balance of pirates/non-pirates stay healty (i.e. the number of pirates is low enough that it is possible to complete what you are doing in the great majority of the occasion) the game will trive.
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Culdees
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:08:00 -
[147]
while there are no real consequences for the act of suicide ganking, it cant possibly be classed as an act of pirating, i mean a pirate suicide bombs himself for some isk hehe. there is no roleplay there, just easy ways to make isk off the backs of others. nothing more. none of these stupid glory stories of how difficult it is to sit at a gate and scan cargo all day.. oooh that must the BEST pvp players eve has to offer.. heh i think not.
am i to believe that this is what everyone is to expect from eve in the future?
well no matter, i think most players and people who play/see eve will realize that suicide gankers and other such lowlifes are very much in the minority.
the best solution i can think of was posted previously many times by different people and that is make the act of scanning cargo an aggresive act. it would fit the theme of future pirates more than suicide ganking. its not much of a stretch to believe such technology would exist in the future, i mean police can detect radar detectors in cars now.
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Cpt Branko
Guardian Heroes
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Posted - 2007.07.20 14:22:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Culdees while there are no real consequences for the act of suicide ganking... and a lot of whine
There are. If the cargo gets blown up, then you lose about 25ish mil for a smartboming BS (for example). Plus, the sec hit means that eventually you'll have to go ratting to fix it.
Originally by: Akita T
I am paranoid about hauling more than 100 mil worth of stuff in a tanked Badger (think 5k shield HP recharge in aprox 200 sec and high resists) and I'm more than seriously contemplating training up for Bustard before I move more than 200 mil in one haul, EVER. As for valuable small stuff, it's usually in an IStabed inty, or even a covops WITH a covops cloak, which DOES get activated even in highsec each jump.
See, that is how it's done properly.
You can AFK haul with lots of cargo extenders if you're hauling Tritanium or something of <20M value.
Originally by: DILLI GAF
The purpose of this thread was to get feed back on the over all issue. I am not the only one bringing this up so it was to get feed back.
Er, there's no issue, except players not thinking, and EvE thankfully forces you to think. It's a game where you need to outsmart others.
Originally by: Ominus Decre
PvP in high security should be not only welcomed but encouraged. The new character experiance should have a means to introduce players to "pirating" and show them how beneficial it is to the whole of the game.
Not many people can grasp the concept of an open PvP environment let alone one which bases all assets on consumables. It's CCP's responsibility to not only show players that PvP in thier game is fun but to also encourage the engagements.
Risk Vs. Reward. This should be the first lesson in a new player experiance. It should be taught early on that there's a certain amount of return to be had from the risk you take.
Exactly.
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NeoTheo
Caldari Dark Materials
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Posted - 2007.07.20 15:59:00 -
[149]
isnt the answer pretty simple?
have concord Pod people who attack folks in hig sec, that should be ok, then people cant complain there are no down sides, also make the security hit much much worse.
the bottom line is High sec is not 100% safe, it never has been since i have played.
i think that this is 6 of one and half a dozen of another to coin a english phrase. carebares should understand that high sec isnt totally safe and you still need to take care (what if there had been a RAT at the gates as part of a event or something? ok that never happens but you get the point) - but also there would be no harm in making concord do alittle more than BBQ your ship for high sec piracy, if you wanna do it, then you would really have to be sure its worth it.
/theo http://atomicrain.net/eve_sig.jpg
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frihetskjemper
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Posted - 2007.07.25 01:19:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Szprinkoth Sponsz
Originally by: Renosha Argaron
Roy i would see your point had he been in low sec and been on auto pilot, but that was not the case....autopilot is there for a reason.
Guns are there for a reason: For me to shoot your ship in highsec.
Why do I lose all isk and you get full insurance that I can not get on my cargo?
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