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Why we cant warp to empty space in EVE

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Sisohiv Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:53:00 - [31] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Sisohiv wrote: If you warp to it, it isn't empty anymore. Again, whether is space is empty or not really has no bearing on one's ability to warp to / through something. Not in the lore, not in practice - they even took extra time to show us what the inside of a planetary warp tunnel looks like! "Jump calculations" and collisions aren't really the issue here - I think it all boils down to whether giving players the ability to warp forward X distance breaks the tactical depth of engagements and kills things like sniper fleets and the like. This isn't something that can be argued from a theoretical standpoint, the laws of physics have already been broken..... The thing is, I've actually done it. Warped without a destination. I collapsed a wormhole with a freighter and it bounced me in to warp with no destination. Of course I had no way to stop my warp and was forced to log out and rest my position. If we want to look at this from a realistic point of view the reason it isnt possible is destination is what pulls us out of warp.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.10 19:28:00 - [32] - Quote Sisohiv wrote: The thing is, I've actually done it. Warped without a destination. I collapsed a wormhole with a freighter and it bounced me in to warp with no destination. Of course I had no way to stop my warp and was forced to log out and rest my position. If we want to look at this from a realistic point of view the reason it isnt possible is destination is what pulls us out of warp. Whoa, trippy! I still don't understand why our fancy pants computers that are capable of saving a bookmark, can't compute a bookmark that is 200km in front of the nose of your ship just as easily. It's the same thing more or less, no more computational power needed just simply elementary addition. I maintain that if our computers can save a BM, warp off, and warp back, they should be able to "imagine" a BM 200km in front of you and warp to that.
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp 256	Posted - 2012.01.10 19:48:00 - [33] - Quote 200 KM.. why not 200 AU. Would be a littl emore useful I think. Deep Space for staging etc. I know there isn;t anything out there. Its kind of the idea actually. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Ispai Ponue Caldari Provisions Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:05:00 - [34] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I have an 85 AU safe in the middle of nowhere How are these made? The only way I've been able to find to do it is to keep bookmarks of some signature that was in the system on some date. All the other ways of making deep safes were killed, no?
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 325	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:08:00 - [35] - Quote Has no one in this thread heard of stutterwarp? Not exactly what your looking for, OP, but seems to answer what alot of people think they are looking for. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp 256	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:10:00 - [36] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: Has no one in this thread heard of stutterwarp? Not exactly what your looking for, OP, but seems to answer what alot of people think they are looking for. Pardon? What is this stutter warp you speak of and how does one do it exactly if one were to wish to do such a thing? 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 325	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:15:00 - [37] - Quote IGNATIUS HOOD wrote: Tallian Saotome wrote: Has no one in this thread heard of stutterwarp? Not exactly what your looking for, OP, but seems to answer what alot of people think they are looking for. Pardon? What is this stutter warp you speak of and how does one do it exactly if one were to wish to do such a thing? Empty your cap, and try warping somewhere.... You won't make it Call it a stutterwarp because the easiest way is to start and cancel warp over and over til you get the out of cap message, then let the warp try to complete. With practice you can get to a fair degree of precision. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1168	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:31:00 - [38] - Quote IGNATIUS HOOD wrote: 200 KM.. why not 200 AU. Would be a littl emore useful I think. Deep Space for staging etc. I know there isn;t anything out there. Its kind of the idea actually. Look up Deep Space safe spots. They're incredibly useful. People didn't need titan and super garage alts when they were available; just park it 300AU out of the system. Cynoing in 300AU outside the system also meant you could have your whole fleet loaded and ready before the defenders had any chance to respond. CCP tossed them for good reason.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard 746	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:47:00 - [39] - Quote Because it'd be stupidly hard to generate any kind of player encounters if people didn't have to use celestials.
Susie Chow GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.01.10 21:35:00 - [40] - Quote Because physics has taught us that in order to travel at apparently superluminal speeds one would have to bend space to align the start and end points, like folding a piece of paper to make two dots match up. In other words, your ship follows a nonlinear path between two points while in warp. It can't just point in a direction and say "go," or else it would end up in a completely random place, possibly not even in this universe. It would also make it stupidly easy to escape from PvP and go AFK whenever you like, which is bad game design.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.10 21:54:00 - [41] - Quote Quote: It would also make it stupidly easy to escape from PvP and go AFK whenever you like, which is bad game design. Most likely. This, I feel, is the greatest reason why we don't see manual warp and only selectively warpable objects. More than any argument based on laws, physics, realism, nav computers, etc.
Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 368	Posted - 2012.01.10 23:27:00 - [42] - Quote i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose
Guillame Herschel NME1 32	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:21:00 - [43] - Quote Aqriue wrote: Open world is just that, open. EVE is not open. EQ1 wasn't open. They were just a series of rooms connected with various doors to chokepoint player interaction, which breaks down to gate/station camping. Early in EVE's history, when you jumped through a gate, you appeared in the destination solar system at a random point in space, not 15km from the exit gate. Gate camping took place in the inbound gate (no warp to zero). Back then, you could also fit multiple microwarpdrives to your ship and fly off in any direction at hundreds of thousands of km/sec. The Deep Space probes had a deviation of 90AU. Which meant you could scan for your own ship, and get a warpable hit as much as 90AU away in any direction. Lather, rinse, repeat, and you obtain bookmarks thousands of AU from the star. EVE used to be a LOT bigger.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:23:00 - [44] - Quote Herping yourDerp wrote: i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose Well, lets say you could set a distance to X and punch warp no matter where you were facing - basically this renders the align speed of a ship useless in terms of a balancing feature. Ships could no longer be bumped out of alignment, and slow ships would have just as much GTFO ability as a frigate. (EDIT - except for the acceleration difference, from a standstill a frig still has an advantage) At any point in combat, no matter how bulky a ship you were, you could warp out of danger to a safe spot instantly assuming you were at 75% speed. If nothing else, I see this as a huge drawback because it would reduce the number of fights that occur, not increase them. And this wouldn't render probes useless, lets say I'm able to warp straight forward 1 AU from anywhere in space - say, away from a gatecamp. If I'm not at a celestial or other object, no one could find me anyways. Someone might detect me on D-Scan, but that won't tell them how far away I am from them or if warping that distance will land them on top of me. You'd still have to use probes to be accurate.
Guillame Herschel NME1 32	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:28:00 - [45] - Quote arcca jeth wrote: answer is, there's nothing out there so why would you want to go there? there's literally NOTHING there That's why one would want to go. Have you ever wanted to hide in plain sight? If you're a player from before the 20AU nerf, you certainly have bookmarks that allow you, in some systems, to warp to a safe within the 20AU wall, that is nevertheless beyond the range of any d-scan from any celestial object. Can't make those bookmarks now.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 2738	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:49:00 - [46] - Quote I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1168	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:53:00 - [47] - Quote Nova Fox wrote: I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. I want a Pony with a 500m damage doomsday given to me every time I dock in a Pod. Demon Ibis-Pony of DoomGäó
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.11 02:30:00 - [48] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Nova Fox wrote: I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. I want a Pony with a 500m damage doomsday given to me every time I dock in a Pod. Demon Ibis-Pony of DoomGäó I just want starcakes.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1171	Posted - 2012.01.11 02:33:00 - [49] - Quote Nova Fox wrote: I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. Just remembered. There is a button for that. See in the top right of your Eve window, that little 'x' button? That does what you're asking for. Hit Button > Warp off in Random direction.
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 325	Posted - 2012.01.11 06:58:00 - [50] - Quote Guillame Herschel wrote: arcca jeth wrote: answer is, there's nothing out there so why would you want to go there? there's literally NOTHING there That's why one would want to go. Have you ever wanted to hide in plain sight? If you're a player from before the 20AU nerf, you certainly have bookmarks that allow you, in some systems, to warp to a safe within the 20AU wall, that is nevertheless beyond the range of any d-scan from any celestial object. Can't make those bookmarks now. Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping). I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Halcyon Ingenium Infomorph Research and Technology 127	Posted - 2012.01.11 07:20:00 - [51] - Quote Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: If memory serves me most si-fi I can think of dose in fact at some point discus the dangers of and reasoning why you can't just go some were with out proper navigation.(at least Fire Fly, Star Trek, and Star Wars do) Also going in a strait line for ever has a 100% chance of collision with some thing. I do like the fact that I can't just murder my crew and my self buy dropping out of warp in a star or getting flung in to the "gap" between stars because of shabby navigation. Most do, the reasoning being that said pilot doesn't want to take the chance of warping into space occupied by matter. Very small chance, but people in the future are both not stupid and also not deathist (i.e. Don't want to die/see death as a bad thing). Obstensibly this also applies to the ships A.I., limited as it is, not limited to the extent to make it suicidally stupid enough to take a risk like that. That which always was, and is, and will be everlasting fire, the same for all, the cosmos, made neither by god nor man, replenishes in measure as it burns away. -Heraclitus
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet 53	Posted - 2012.01.11 10:40:00 - [52] - Quote But our ships do have crew, just less than there non-pod conter parts. And I would like to think that they would mutany if you tryed
Caliph Muhammed inderpendent manufacturing operations Amen Anera 58	Posted - 2012.01.11 11:19:00 - [53] - Quote Janis Ezra wrote: I wonder why its not possible to just press a warp button, configurate a range, and just warp wherever you want? FiS feels so linear, everything just happens in certain areas which are/look the same in every system. It feels you are flying in an endless tunnel. Opinions? Theoretically? I'd say warping into a system would require you to know the Star's class, which would define its gravitational circumference. That would tell you at which point it's zenith and nadir were at so you could warp in or out without having your ship ripped to pieces from gravity. From a system to system point of view the computer would need something to lock on to to approximate warp in locations. Between stars is a very long distance and without using the star as a guide pinpointing your ship to land anywhere near said locale would be impossible. Even with super sophisticated computers. I believe the stargates represent the zenith and nadir that's most closest to the system you're jumping from. Now this isn't represented within in-system jumps for the sake of gameplay. Technically, in system warp would be drastically slower. Between stars there isn't alot of junk to collide with but in system you'd have to go much slower to avoid collisions and gravitational influences.
Grateler The People's Liberation Front of Offugen 10	Posted - 2012.01.11 16:34:00 - [54] - Quote Herping yourDerp wrote: i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose It was created before combat scanner probes existed. At that point you could have just warped away from PVP and just hide forever. Of course people worked out how to create safe spots so that was one way around if you had been to the system before. Now with combat probes there is less of a reason not to be able to do so, but would you really be able to lock down a target in the time he arrived at the random spot and then warped off to a new spot, repeat.....
Guillame Herschel NME1 33	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:14:00 - [55] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: Guillame Herschel wrote: Can't make those bookmarks now. Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping). At 4000 m/sec, it will take you 432 days of real-time flying to reach just 1AU. Quote: I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes. That was nerfed almost 2 years ago. Every bookmark beyond the 20AU wall has been nerfed to be within the wall.
stoicfaux 645	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:34:00 - [56] - Quote How is it our probes can warp to arbitrary points in a system without the need for bookmarks or celestials? probe navigation > ship navigation You can tell me what is and isn't true when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings 206	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:45:00 - [57] - Quote Dr Karsun wrote: Now we have better computers, higher top speed, but can't just hit the "GO *****, GO!" button and burn till we'r out of fuel. I find that bad, but I can live with that. Nerf tackling! Tacklers have it too easy, anyway.
Karl Planck Heretic University Heretic Nation 104	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:53:00 - [58] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: How is it our probes can warp to arbitrary points in a system without the need for bookmarks or celestials? probe navigation > ship navigation exactly what I wondered. It has to do with the positioning of the probes in the solar system map. If only we could use the dscan to show us were we are looking at and make a spot to warp to. Like a probe but a moveable bookmark. However, in order to be effective we would have to be able to zoom in a hell of a lot farther otherwise the same ping pong problem would exist for finding safes now.
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 328	Posted - 2012.01.12 06:56:00 - [59] - Quote Guillame Herschel wrote: Tallian Saotome wrote: Guillame Herschel wrote: Can't make those bookmarks now. Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping). At 4000 m/sec, it will take you 432 days of real-time flying to reach just 1AU. Quote: I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes. That was nerfed almost 2 years ago. Every bookmark beyond the 20AU wall has been nerfed to be within the wall. Doesn't change the fact that you can put them in odd places with e-warp, and as for taking 432 days... Thats never stopped anyone in this game, and back when I started I was offered large sums of noob money to fly in a given direction as fast as I could to sell deep safes. Never tried it, I'd rather shoot statues in jita than fly for weeks into nothingness o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 195	Posted - 2012.01.12 07:01:00 - [60] - Quote Hah and here I thought that telling newbies to mine was the worst thing you could do to them. "Fly forever away from everything and go do something else." Great intro to EVE that. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg

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