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Why we cant warp to empty space in EVE

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Janis Ezra Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2012.01.10 09:56:00 - [1] - Quote I wonder why its not possible to just press a warp button, configurate a range, and just warp wherever you want? FiS feels so linear, everything just happens in certain areas which are/look the same in every system. It feels you are flying in an endless tunnel. Opinions?
JeanMichel Bizarre Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 12	Posted - 2012.01.10 09:57:00 - [2] - Quote You're doing it wrong.
BLACK-STAR 399	Posted - 2012.01.10 09:59:00 - [3] - Quote You can. [img]http://www.imgbox.de/users/S7AR/star.png[/img]
baltec1 435	Posted - 2012.01.10 09:59:00 - [4] - Quote I have an 85 AU safe in the middle of nowhere
Florestan Bronstein United Highsec Front The 99 Percent 363	Posted - 2012.01.10 10:00:00 - [5] - Quote not sure what you would do in that empty space and why the usual methods to create safespots are not good enough.
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet 52	Posted - 2012.01.10 10:05:00 - [6] - Quote From what I understand warping needs a start and endpoint to function, but also needs proof of "clear space" and with out some thing to focus on or a preexisting flight path the governor in the navcomp wont make a warp tunnel that could pass through dead space. And I assume that slamming in to dead space with a warpdrive brakes it and strands you.
Janis Ezra Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2012.01.10 10:07:00 - [7] - Quote but you always need an object to warp to something. playing ping-pong-warp just to get to a specific point is not sci-fi
baltec1 435	Posted - 2012.01.10 10:14:00 - [8] - Quote Janis Ezra wrote: but you always need an object to warp to something. playing ping-pong-warp just to get to a specific point is not sci-fi You can get 20 AU beyond the outermost planet of a system but rumour has it that there is still a safe spot several lightyears towards jove space made by a pilot who tried to get into the Jove empire.
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet 52	Posted - 2012.01.10 11:02:00 - [9] - Quote If memory serves me most si-fi I can think of dose in fact at some point discus the dangers of and reasoning why you can't just go some were with out proper navigation.(at least Fire Fly, Star Trek, and Star Wars do) Also going in a strait line for ever has a 100% chance of collision with some thing. I do like the fact that I can't just murder my crew and my self buy dropping out of warp in a star or getting flung in to the "gap" between stars because of shabby navigation.
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 342	Posted - 2012.01.10 11:12:00 - [10] - Quote The ability to warp wherever you wanted to at the press of a button would render D-Scan super-powerful, they would have to nerf it totally. Imagine scanning down an enemy ship and warping to them directly, no probes required. Yummy ? Yes, but stupid. If CCP ever decided to allow us to warp around as you suggest, then the dangers of warping into an anomaly, a space-time rift, a planet, moon, sun or a myriad of other possible disasters, should be part of the reality. Instant death, instant podding, no chance of any damage control or survival. As it is, we warp thru objectas in space, but bounce around on some gates like yo-yo's on rubberbands. Must have something to do with this submarine simulator we play. o/ The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.

Florestan Bronstein United Highsec Front The 99 Percent 363	Posted - 2012.01.10 11:17:00 - [11] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: Imagine scanning down an enemy ship and warping to them directly, no probes required. Yummy ? Yes, but stupid. for bad safespots that's already possible, just requires some patience and dropping a lot of bookmarks.
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc 210	Posted - 2012.01.10 14:30:00 - [12] - Quote You dont have the pilot skill that is why, one second too late will put you thousands of kilometers off target, and you have to spend hours flying after that, Be almost impossible stop the ship on destination by human pilot. Threads like this generally result in anything positive. Locked.
Karl Planck Heretic University Heretic Nation 104	Posted - 2012.01.10 14:42:00 - [13] - Quote ^^ yes it is possible, but with the lag you will miss at least the first couple times. Every time i have done this successfully (the target didn't warp off) it has taken over 15min, which is way way way way way too long for someone NOT to notice your there. With the d-scan range finding you can hit someone at 5deg within a meter of accuracy. You could get a lot closer a lot faster if you had a "warp x meters" in the direction I am looking.
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 440	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:07:00 - [14] - Quote It breaks down to it as a very simple answer. CCP didn't know how to make space actually like space. I had heard EVE was supposedly open during developement, but the developers thought there would be very little player interaction to the point people would just bypass those "bad ass rouge rogue Pirate Captains of the galactic sea" and it wasn't a Good Idea(tm). So we have these "jumpgates with manual request to cross" very well hidden, which unlike say EQ1 which had very well defined zone lines to cross (but in the end, EVE is the same thing as EQ1: They are seperate rooms). Open world is just that, open. EVE is not open. EQ1 wasn't open. They were just a series of rooms connected with various doors to chokepoint player interaction, which breaks down to gate/station camping. Add some travel time between gates with a Starwars like "warp tunnel" to make to make it appear you can make the Kessel run in 12 parsecs but instantly appear in the next system at a gate and you have EVE space travel in a nutshell. Something that looks fancy, but in reality its like Bowling with the gutters buffered up, you are the ball and the bad guy is the pins...if you can't go in the gutter to bypass you have go straight through the bad guys camping the other side of the lane.
Bubanni SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353 72	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:19:00 - [15] - Quote I personly think it could be good to some limited degree... a short warp sling... you should be able to warp towards something in your directional, not having probes be the only way to find a ship in space (but doing it without should be very hard, and should take serveral tries to land even close to it... say you see a ship within 1AU on your directional, and you could warp yourself toward that (but proberly having to warp several times back and forth to get closer (kinda like now, but without the need to drop 100ish of bookmarks to do it) basicly, what would be awesome was a way to cancel warp, mid warp... (where it still slows down like normally)
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp 256	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:34:00 - [16] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I have an 85 AU safe in the middle of nowhere So, did you just slow boat in a MWD equipped Frigate for a few days. I'd love to make some 'staging' safes galactic north and south of the ecliptic in a WH but the only way I see being able to do that is to slow boat out the distance. Sounds like a lot of work. Am I missing something? 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
BLACK-STAR 400	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:40:00 - [17] - Quote IGNATIUS HOOD wrote: Am I missing something? maybe you weren't around when CCP put a maximum solar system circumference and bumped all bookmarks exceeding the maximum diameter to the edge of the system. [img]http://www.imgbox.de/users/S7AR/star.png[/img]
Karl Planck Heretic University Heretic Nation 104	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:44:00 - [18] - Quote BLACK-STAR wrote: IGNATIUS HOOD wrote: Am I missing something? maybe you weren't around when CCP put a maximum solar system circumference and bumped all bookmarks exceeding the maximum diameter to the edge of the system. Thats not quite how it works
Zixie Draco Tactical Knightmare 33	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:50:00 - [19] - Quote Janis Ezra wrote: I wonder why its not possible to just press a warp button, configurate a range, and just warp wherever you want? FiS feels so linear, everything just happens in certain areas which are/look the same in every system. It feels you are flying in an endless tunnel. Opinions? Because. Would you like a kitten?
Taedrin Kushan Industrial 309	Posted - 2012.01.10 15:55:00 - [20] - Quote [lolrp] Originally, in order for a warp drive to generate the warp bubble, it requires a gravity well to "lock on" to. If there isn't a gravitational well, then no warp bubble can be generated. This created difficulties, as FTL travel was only possible between large celestial objects with significant gravity. Eventually beacons were developed which created an artificial gravitational signature which warp drives could lock on to without needing a large gravitational well. These beacons were installed on virtually every significant structure in space - stargates, stations, complexes, etc... Obviously, this fails to explain safespots. You might be able to explain it away though by having recent developments in warp technology allowing warp drives to create a "virtual beacon" which it can use to lock on to any location it has been to before (even mid-warp). Instead of depositing an actual physical beacon, the warp drive collects information about the gravitational anomalies unique to that location in space. Using this information, the warp drive is able to "remember" the location and warp to it as if there were a beacon there. [/lolrp]

Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 774	Posted - 2012.01.10 16:06:00 - [21] - Quote warp travel needs a point A and a point B kindly explain to me how you intend to describe point B to your nav computer if it's not an object clicking a mouse on a 2d representation of 3d space? using some grid coordinate system based on the center of the universe? witchcraft? nevermind, lets look at direct manual flight actually on second thought direct flight is out as you will never be able to accurately direct plot to a given point as you will most likely over or undershoot it by several AU using manual control, your nav computer needs to calculate the deceleration point to land you on target these points simply cover the enduser side of things, can you imaging the coding that would be required to make such a thing possible? fuggeddabouddit The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1072	Posted - 2012.01.10 16:20:00 - [22] - Quote You would have tackle blobs warping as grids to general areas and people playing "grid fu". Probably a database thing.
Velicitia Open Designs 443	Posted - 2012.01.10 17:34:00 - [23] - Quote Quote: Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it. /thread
arcca jeth Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance 55	Posted - 2012.01.10 17:57:00 - [24] - Quote warp to the edge of a system, outermost celestial body, set your microwarpdrive in one direction away from the center of the system until your face splatters on an invisible wall or until your ship tries to climb said invisible wall. answer is, there's nothing out there so why would you want to go there? there's literally NOTHING there lol you / we are in a fishbowl sadly
Dr Karsun Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor 95	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:06:00 - [25] - Quote Actually, the only problem with warp that most people are naming is that you can't fly not knowing if there are objects in your line of flight... That's BS since you can fly threw planets / asteroids / moons / space junks and other space ships without a problem while you are in warp. The problem is, I guess , that the jump drive calibrating requires an existing cosmic signature to lock on to, there is no way of just punching in coordinates... What is quite silly considering people on earth did exactly that when they were flying somewhere into space -> they didn't have any waypoints, they just flew. Now we have better computers, higher top speed, but can't just hit the "GO *****, GO!" button and burn till we'r out of fuel. I find that bad, but I can live with that. "Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:18:00 - [26] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I have an 85 AU safe in the middle of nowhere The OP isn't talking about safes, obviously we can drop bookmarks anywhere in space and warp back to them. I'm pretty sure what he's suggesting is being able to type in a range, point your ship in that direction, and punch warp. You could, for example, type "300km" and point your ship towards an enemy at a tactical, vaulting forward and landing somewhere near them, but not on top of them unless you're skilled / lucky, depending on the speed of the ship you're aimed at and how fast they are moving. Short warps should be possible this way, I understand "jump calculations" and stuff from a lore standpoint, but if you can see that there's 500 meters of empty space between you and and enemy, your ship shouldn't require a lock to warp from 0 to a point a given distance in front of your ship. Obviously conceptually there isn't anything wrong with this functionality, I think its a matter of SiSi testing and balancing to see how this could be abused and possibly break some types of fleet warfare. But its certainly an interesting idea....
Sisohiv Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:21:00 - [27] - Quote If you warp to it, it isn't empty anymore.
bamason Dragon's Rage 2	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:22:00 - [28] - Quote i seem to remeber early on in eve you could double click a spot in space and you would warp till your cap ran out.an old corp member had a 1200 au bm out of the system, had to do multiple warps to get there. then ccp introduced scanning and collapsed the size of a system to something like 200 au so probing could find all safe spots
My Neutral Toon Knights Who Til Recently Said Ni 2	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:27:00 - [29] - Quote bamason wrote: i seem to remeber early on in eve you could double click a spot in space and you would warp till your cap ran out.an old corp member had a 1200 au bm out of the system, had to do multiple warps to get there. then ccp introduced scanning and collapsed the size of a system to something like 200 au so probing could find all safe spots systems are much larger than 200AU... the longest gate-to-gate warp i can recall was around 240AU.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:39:00 - [30] - Quote Sisohiv wrote: If you warp to it, it isn't empty anymore. Again, whether is space is empty or not really has no bearing on one's ability to warp to / through something. Not in the lore, not in practice - they even took extra time to show us what the inside of a planetary warp tunnel looks like! "Jump calculations" and collisions aren't really the issue here - I think it all boils down to whether giving players the ability to warp forward X distance breaks the tactical depth of engagements and kills things like sniper fleets and the like. This isn't something that can be argued from a theoretical standpoint, the laws of physics have already been broken.....

Sisohiv Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2012.01.10 18:53:00 - [31] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Sisohiv wrote: If you warp to it, it isn't empty anymore. Again, whether is space is empty or not really has no bearing on one's ability to warp to / through something. Not in the lore, not in practice - they even took extra time to show us what the inside of a planetary warp tunnel looks like! "Jump calculations" and collisions aren't really the issue here - I think it all boils down to whether giving players the ability to warp forward X distance breaks the tactical depth of engagements and kills things like sniper fleets and the like. This isn't something that can be argued from a theoretical standpoint, the laws of physics have already been broken..... The thing is, I've actually done it. Warped without a destination. I collapsed a wormhole with a freighter and it bounced me in to warp with no destination. Of course I had no way to stop my warp and was forced to log out and rest my position. If we want to look at this from a realistic point of view the reason it isnt possible is destination is what pulls us out of warp.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.10 19:28:00 - [32] - Quote Sisohiv wrote: The thing is, I've actually done it. Warped without a destination. I collapsed a wormhole with a freighter and it bounced me in to warp with no destination. Of course I had no way to stop my warp and was forced to log out and rest my position. If we want to look at this from a realistic point of view the reason it isnt possible is destination is what pulls us out of warp. Whoa, trippy! I still don't understand why our fancy pants computers that are capable of saving a bookmark, can't compute a bookmark that is 200km in front of the nose of your ship just as easily. It's the same thing more or less, no more computational power needed just simply elementary addition. I maintain that if our computers can save a BM, warp off, and warp back, they should be able to "imagine" a BM 200km in front of you and warp to that.
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp 256	Posted - 2012.01.10 19:48:00 - [33] - Quote 200 KM.. why not 200 AU. Would be a littl emore useful I think. Deep Space for staging etc. I know there isn;t anything out there. Its kind of the idea actually. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Ispai Ponue Caldari Provisions Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:05:00 - [34] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I have an 85 AU safe in the middle of nowhere How are these made? The only way I've been able to find to do it is to keep bookmarks of some signature that was in the system on some date. All the other ways of making deep safes were killed, no?
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 325	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:08:00 - [35] - Quote Has no one in this thread heard of stutterwarp? Not exactly what your looking for, OP, but seems to answer what alot of people think they are looking for. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp 256	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:10:00 - [36] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: Has no one in this thread heard of stutterwarp? Not exactly what your looking for, OP, but seems to answer what alot of people think they are looking for. Pardon? What is this stutter warp you speak of and how does one do it exactly if one were to wish to do such a thing? 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 325	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:15:00 - [37] - Quote IGNATIUS HOOD wrote: Tallian Saotome wrote: Has no one in this thread heard of stutterwarp? Not exactly what your looking for, OP, but seems to answer what alot of people think they are looking for. Pardon? What is this stutter warp you speak of and how does one do it exactly if one were to wish to do such a thing? Empty your cap, and try warping somewhere.... You won't make it Call it a stutterwarp because the easiest way is to start and cancel warp over and over til you get the out of cap message, then let the warp try to complete. With practice you can get to a fair degree of precision. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1168	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:31:00 - [38] - Quote IGNATIUS HOOD wrote: 200 KM.. why not 200 AU. Would be a littl emore useful I think. Deep Space for staging etc. I know there isn;t anything out there. Its kind of the idea actually. Look up Deep Space safe spots. They're incredibly useful. People didn't need titan and super garage alts when they were available; just park it 300AU out of the system. Cynoing in 300AU outside the system also meant you could have your whole fleet loaded and ready before the defenders had any chance to respond. CCP tossed them for good reason.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard 746	Posted - 2012.01.10 20:47:00 - [39] - Quote Because it'd be stupidly hard to generate any kind of player encounters if people didn't have to use celestials.
Susie Chow GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.01.10 21:35:00 - [40] - Quote Because physics has taught us that in order to travel at apparently superluminal speeds one would have to bend space to align the start and end points, like folding a piece of paper to make two dots match up. In other words, your ship follows a nonlinear path between two points while in warp. It can't just point in a direction and say "go," or else it would end up in a completely random place, possibly not even in this universe. It would also make it stupidly easy to escape from PvP and go AFK whenever you like, which is bad game design.

Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.10 21:54:00 - [41] - Quote Quote: It would also make it stupidly easy to escape from PvP and go AFK whenever you like, which is bad game design. Most likely. This, I feel, is the greatest reason why we don't see manual warp and only selectively warpable objects. More than any argument based on laws, physics, realism, nav computers, etc.
Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 368	Posted - 2012.01.10 23:27:00 - [42] - Quote i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose
Guillame Herschel NME1 32	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:21:00 - [43] - Quote Aqriue wrote: Open world is just that, open. EVE is not open. EQ1 wasn't open. They were just a series of rooms connected with various doors to chokepoint player interaction, which breaks down to gate/station camping. Early in EVE's history, when you jumped through a gate, you appeared in the destination solar system at a random point in space, not 15km from the exit gate. Gate camping took place in the inbound gate (no warp to zero). Back then, you could also fit multiple microwarpdrives to your ship and fly off in any direction at hundreds of thousands of km/sec. The Deep Space probes had a deviation of 90AU. Which meant you could scan for your own ship, and get a warpable hit as much as 90AU away in any direction. Lather, rinse, repeat, and you obtain bookmarks thousands of AU from the star. EVE used to be a LOT bigger.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:23:00 - [44] - Quote Herping yourDerp wrote: i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose Well, lets say you could set a distance to X and punch warp no matter where you were facing - basically this renders the align speed of a ship useless in terms of a balancing feature. Ships could no longer be bumped out of alignment, and slow ships would have just as much GTFO ability as a frigate. (EDIT - except for the acceleration difference, from a standstill a frig still has an advantage) At any point in combat, no matter how bulky a ship you were, you could warp out of danger to a safe spot instantly assuming you were at 75% speed. If nothing else, I see this as a huge drawback because it would reduce the number of fights that occur, not increase them. And this wouldn't render probes useless, lets say I'm able to warp straight forward 1 AU from anywhere in space - say, away from a gatecamp. If I'm not at a celestial or other object, no one could find me anyways. Someone might detect me on D-Scan, but that won't tell them how far away I am from them or if warping that distance will land them on top of me. You'd still have to use probes to be accurate.
Guillame Herschel NME1 32	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:28:00 - [45] - Quote arcca jeth wrote: answer is, there's nothing out there so why would you want to go there? there's literally NOTHING there That's why one would want to go. Have you ever wanted to hide in plain sight? If you're a player from before the 20AU nerf, you certainly have bookmarks that allow you, in some systems, to warp to a safe within the 20AU wall, that is nevertheless beyond the range of any d-scan from any celestial object. Can't make those bookmarks now.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 2738	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:49:00 - [46] - Quote I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1168	Posted - 2012.01.11 00:53:00 - [47] - Quote Nova Fox wrote: I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. I want a Pony with a 500m damage doomsday given to me every time I dock in a Pod. Demon Ibis-Pony of DoomGäó
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 757	Posted - 2012.01.11 02:30:00 - [48] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Nova Fox wrote: I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. I want a Pony with a 500m damage doomsday given to me every time I dock in a Pod. Demon Ibis-Pony of DoomGäó I just want starcakes.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1171	Posted - 2012.01.11 02:33:00 - [49] - Quote Nova Fox wrote: I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off. Just remembered. There is a button for that. See in the top right of your Eve window, that little 'x' button? That does what you're asking for. Hit Button > Warp off in Random direction.
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 325	Posted - 2012.01.11 06:58:00 - [50] - Quote Guillame Herschel wrote: arcca jeth wrote: answer is, there's nothing out there so why would you want to go there? there's literally NOTHING there That's why one would want to go. Have you ever wanted to hide in plain sight? If you're a player from before the 20AU nerf, you certainly have bookmarks that allow you, in some systems, to warp to a safe within the 20AU wall, that is nevertheless beyond the range of any d-scan from any celestial object. Can't make those bookmarks now. Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping). I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`

Halcyon Ingenium Infomorph Research and Technology 127	Posted - 2012.01.11 07:20:00 - [51] - Quote Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: If memory serves me most si-fi I can think of dose in fact at some point discus the dangers of and reasoning why you can't just go some were with out proper navigation.(at least Fire Fly, Star Trek, and Star Wars do) Also going in a strait line for ever has a 100% chance of collision with some thing. I do like the fact that I can't just murder my crew and my self buy dropping out of warp in a star or getting flung in to the "gap" between stars because of shabby navigation. Most do, the reasoning being that said pilot doesn't want to take the chance of warping into space occupied by matter. Very small chance, but people in the future are both not stupid and also not deathist (i.e. Don't want to die/see death as a bad thing). Obstensibly this also applies to the ships A.I., limited as it is, not limited to the extent to make it suicidally stupid enough to take a risk like that. That which always was, and is, and will be everlasting fire, the same for all, the cosmos, made neither by god nor man, replenishes in measure as it burns away. -Heraclitus
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet 53	Posted - 2012.01.11 10:40:00 - [52] - Quote But our ships do have crew, just less than there non-pod conter parts. And I would like to think that they would mutany if you tryed
Caliph Muhammed inderpendent manufacturing operations Amen Anera 58	Posted - 2012.01.11 11:19:00 - [53] - Quote Janis Ezra wrote: I wonder why its not possible to just press a warp button, configurate a range, and just warp wherever you want? FiS feels so linear, everything just happens in certain areas which are/look the same in every system. It feels you are flying in an endless tunnel. Opinions? Theoretically? I'd say warping into a system would require you to know the Star's class, which would define its gravitational circumference. That would tell you at which point it's zenith and nadir were at so you could warp in or out without having your ship ripped to pieces from gravity. From a system to system point of view the computer would need something to lock on to to approximate warp in locations. Between stars is a very long distance and without using the star as a guide pinpointing your ship to land anywhere near said locale would be impossible. Even with super sophisticated computers. I believe the stargates represent the zenith and nadir that's most closest to the system you're jumping from. Now this isn't represented within in-system jumps for the sake of gameplay. Technically, in system warp would be drastically slower. Between stars there isn't alot of junk to collide with but in system you'd have to go much slower to avoid collisions and gravitational influences.
Grateler The People's Liberation Front of Offugen 10	Posted - 2012.01.11 16:34:00 - [54] - Quote Herping yourDerp wrote: i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose It was created before combat scanner probes existed. At that point you could have just warped away from PVP and just hide forever. Of course people worked out how to create safe spots so that was one way around if you had been to the system before. Now with combat probes there is less of a reason not to be able to do so, but would you really be able to lock down a target in the time he arrived at the random spot and then warped off to a new spot, repeat.....
Guillame Herschel NME1 33	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:14:00 - [55] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: Guillame Herschel wrote: Can't make those bookmarks now. Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping). At 4000 m/sec, it will take you 432 days of real-time flying to reach just 1AU. Quote: I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes. That was nerfed almost 2 years ago. Every bookmark beyond the 20AU wall has been nerfed to be within the wall.
stoicfaux 645	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:34:00 - [56] - Quote How is it our probes can warp to arbitrary points in a system without the need for bookmarks or celestials? probe navigation > ship navigation You can tell me what is and isn't true when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings 206	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:45:00 - [57] - Quote Dr Karsun wrote: Now we have better computers, higher top speed, but can't just hit the "GO *****, GO!" button and burn till we'r out of fuel. I find that bad, but I can live with that. Nerf tackling! Tacklers have it too easy, anyway.
Karl Planck Heretic University Heretic Nation 104	Posted - 2012.01.11 20:53:00 - [58] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: How is it our probes can warp to arbitrary points in a system without the need for bookmarks or celestials? probe navigation > ship navigation exactly what I wondered. It has to do with the positioning of the probes in the solar system map. If only we could use the dscan to show us were we are looking at and make a spot to warp to. Like a probe but a moveable bookmark. However, in order to be effective we would have to be able to zoom in a hell of a lot farther otherwise the same ping pong problem would exist for finding safes now.
Tallian Saotome Casa Del Wombat 328	Posted - 2012.01.12 06:56:00 - [59] - Quote Guillame Herschel wrote: Tallian Saotome wrote: Guillame Herschel wrote: Can't make those bookmarks now. Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping). At 4000 m/sec, it will take you 432 days of real-time flying to reach just 1AU. Quote: I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes. That was nerfed almost 2 years ago. Every bookmark beyond the 20AU wall has been nerfed to be within the wall. Doesn't change the fact that you can put them in odd places with e-warp, and as for taking 432 days... Thats never stopped anyone in this game, and back when I started I was offered large sums of noob money to fly in a given direction as fast as I could to sell deep safes. Never tried it, I'd rather shoot statues in jita than fly for weeks into nothingness o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 195	Posted - 2012.01.12 07:01:00 - [60] - Quote Hah and here I thought that telling newbies to mine was the worst thing you could do to them. "Fly forever away from everything and go do something else." Great intro to EVE that. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg

RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1195	Posted - 2012.01.12 08:29:00 - [61] - Quote KrakizBad wrote: Hah and here I thought that telling newbies to mine was the worst thing you could do to them. "Fly forever away from everything and go do something else." Great intro to EVE that. I think you'll find that there's a distinction without a difference between telling newbies to mine and telling them to quit.
Ris Dnalor Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies. 156	Posted - 2012.01.12 08:34:00 - [62] - Quote Janis Ezra wrote: I wonder why its not possible to just press a warp button, configurate a range, and just warp wherever you want? FiS feels so linear, everything just happens in certain areas which are/look the same in every system. It feels you are flying in an endless tunnel. Opinions? http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1003/Poseidon-Manual.pdf not exactly what you're asking for, but it will make you a deep safe spot.
Ron Jobs Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.01.12 09:04:00 - [63] - Quote Guillame Herschel wrote: If you're a player from before the 20AU nerf, you certainly have bookmarks that allow you, in some systems, to warp to a safe within the 20AU wall, that is nevertheless beyond the range of any d-scan from any celestial object. Can't make those bookmarks now. There was nothing like a 20AU - Nerf. All CCP did was putting Safespots that are more than 4 or so AUs away from the Sun than the outermost planet or object was closer to the sun. They did that, when that method of overshooting or slingshoting warps got fixed. You could fit some small ship that was warping very fast (take a covops with fast-warp rigs) and put as much mass on it as you can (plates). Warp somewhere between two spots, close to the point where you would start to deaccelerate, log off. then login back immediately. Since you'd logged off, ships sublight navigation routines took over, your slow agility due to the plates was slowly braking you down before returning to thepoint you initially wanted to warp to, and then making you do your emergency-logoff warp. with the initial slow braking down from warp speed, you'd be about 70 to 90AU behind the point you'd initially initiated warp to. Bookmark, repeat. Got you about 2kAU per hour away from the sun. Thats essentially the Poseidon-Method that got fixed years ago. (Fleet-warping a unsuspecting Freighter to a point 2000AU away from him, at .7 AU/sec == Fleet member NOT amused) CCP fixed the logoff-deaccelerating-behaviour and moved all spots behind the treshold closer to the sun. But they never created a limit that would prevent anyone to go again beyond this "not further than 4AU out than the last planet or object is", since there is still a method to get as far as 50AU away from the sun in any random direction in less than 10 minutes work, provided you have the right ship with the right fit.
Janis Ezra Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2012.01.12 11:01:00 - [64] - Quote Ris Dnalor wrote: http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1003/Poseidon-Manual.pdf not exactly what you're asking for, but it will make you a deep safe spot. An 11 page guide how to warp to a certain point which is not visible in space. See why I did this thread?
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1196	Posted - 2012.01.12 11:05:00 - [65] - Quote Janis Ezra wrote: Ris Dnalor wrote: http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1003/Poseidon-Manual.pdf not exactly what you're asking for, but it will make you a deep safe spot. An 11 page guide how to warp to a certain point which is not visible in space. See why I did this thread? That guide is also deprecated. It doesn't work anymore. There are good ways to make strong safespots indefinitely. We don't need perfectly safe safespots createable without any effort.


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