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Navy Mega... whats the point?

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Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 19/07/2007 15:58:52 Hyperion can fit standard mids, 2x LARII tank, and 8xIons with 2x MagStabs it can sustain this with charges. Navy Mega can fit standard mids, 2x NamedLAR tank, 7x Ions, with 3 Magstabs which it cannot sustain with charges. The Hyperion gets approx 10DPS greater than the Navy Mega, not much in it. This includes tracking on a target moving with 30m/s transversal (very generously in the Mega's favor). The Navy Mega does get the additional DPS/jam chance from moving from medium to heavy drones, though the Hype can fit a full set of each and change as the situation decrees. I would actually advocate using mediums on the Navy Mega too due to possible losses, tackler handling, and variety. The Navy Mega's tank is pathetic compared with that of the Hype. Even with the "required" implants it still cannot fit 2x LARII and a 3 slot tank (EANM, DCU, Hardener whatever your flavor) while the Hype can. The Navy Mega is reduced to using named reppers without the bonus on the Hype. Fleet... if your feeling crazy. Theres no contest. I always believed the tracking bonus made the Mega a better rail boat at short distance, it does... sadly that distance is within the reach blaster range. Laughable to say the least. Fit faction some might say.. sure try that for the Hype too, the gap only gets bigger. So if the Navy Mega competes as neither a blasterboat or a railplatform what of the standard mega. Well it's handy for fleet because it's cheap. Yup folks... we got Amarred. So, other than the obvious line up of Amarr post your outclassed ships... the ones that simply do nothing that another ship can't do better. [EDIT: Please note this is not a Gallente whine, it happens to all races, just thought we all might like to vent a little steam over the ships we love but can't find an excuse to use anymore.]
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:58:00 - [2] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 19/07/2007 15:58:52 Hyperion can fit standard mids, 2x LARII tank, and 8xIons with 2x MagStabs it can sustain this with charges. Navy Mega can fit standard mids, 2x NamedLAR tank, 7x Ions, with 3 Magstabs which it cannot sustain with charges. The Hyperion gets approx 10DPS greater than the Navy Mega, not much in it. This includes tracking on a target moving with 30m/s transversal (very generously in the Mega's favor). The Navy Mega does get the additional DPS/jam chance from moving from medium to heavy drones, though the Hype can fit a full set of each and change as the situation decrees. I would actually advocate using mediums on the Navy Mega too due to possible losses, tackler handling, and variety. The Navy Mega's tank is pathetic compared with that of the Hype. Even with the "required" implants it still cannot fit 2x LARII and a 3 slot tank (EANM, DCU, Hardener whatever your flavor) while the Hype can. The Navy Mega is reduced to using named reppers without the bonus on the Hype. Fleet... if your feeling crazy. Theres no contest. I always believed the tracking bonus made the Mega a better rail boat at short distance, it does... sadly that distance is within the reach blaster range. Laughable to say the least. Fit faction some might say.. sure try that for the Hype too, the gap only gets bigger. So if the Navy Mega competes as neither a blasterboat or a railplatform what of the standard mega. Well it's handy for fleet because it's cheap. Yup folks... we got Amarred. So, other than the obvious line up of Amarr post your outclassed ships... the ones that simply do nothing that another ship can't do better. [EDIT: Please note this is not a Gallente whine, it happens to all races, just thought we all might like to vent a little steam over the ships we love but can't find an excuse to use anymore.]
Scaramunga Scaramai Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.19 16:01:00 - [3] YARRRRRRRR! i approve of this thread
LeMoose The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.19 16:01:00 - [4] what we need is faction tier 3 ship also faction bc's an' stuff
Scaramunga Scaramai Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.19 16:01:00 - [5] YARRRRRRRR! i approve of this thread
LeMoose The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.19 16:01:00 - [6] what we need is faction tier 3 ship also faction bc's an' stuff
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.19 16:20:00 - [7] I hear they're working on adding more faction stuff to the LP store including current customs ships and various NPC skins we see but don't get to play with. Be nice if they balance them a little. Tier 3 faction BS.... not really feasable unless they tweak the LP prices of the current faction battleships. More collectors items really seems a waste of developemnt time. If they do tweak the prices though hell yeah, sign me up.
Tenpun M	Posted - 2007.07.19 16:22:00 - [8] You missed out 1 scenario - the gank plate setup. You will find that with 8 low slots and higher HP a plated navy mega would own both the mega & hyp in a 1v1 (in either active or plate config). Also you have shrugged off the tracking bonus, but from my experience I think it's a pretty big deal when using blasters - admitedly I have less experience with rails.
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:04:00 - [9] I don't know what your trying to fit, but with simmilar priced fittings on both and a couple of very cheap faction mods I have a 2 Navy Mega setups here that both outdamage the Hyperion by far, one that Tanks a little less DPS with a higher DPS output and another that infact tanks more DPS and still outdamages the Hype. Both setups have less cap useage then the Hype fitting, and have a huge chunk more effective HP to boot. I'll let you figure it out for youself since your such an 'expert'. I also doubt you've ever tried to fit a Hype for fleet work, because if you had you'd know that you can't even fit the 'standard' Sniperthron fit that fits rather comftably on a Megathron. -----
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:11:00 - [10] Real men fit T2 Neutrons _______________

Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Ione Hunt Real men fit T2 Neutrons TBH if I was planning to only T2 fit a NMega for real I'd do that. Slaves, a few rigs, a plate or two hand you've got a beastly amount of HP. And i'm not complaining about 1k DPS either. -----
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:36:00 - [12] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 19/07/2007 17:37:05 Originally by: Chronus26 I don't know what your trying to fit, but with simmilar priced fittings on both and a couple of very cheap faction mods I have a 2 Navy Mega setups here that both outdamage the Hyperion by far, one that Tanks a little less DPS with a higher DPS output and another that infact tanks more DPS and still outdamages the Hype. Both setups have less cap useage then the Hype fitting, and have a huge chunk more effective HP to boot. I'll let you figure it out for youself since your such an 'expert'. I also doubt you've ever tried to fit a Hype for fleet work, because if you had you'd know that you can't even fit the 'standard' Sniperthron fit that fits rather comftably on a Megathron. Why thankyou, as an 'expert' I'd never have figured to try to fit the ships myself. i just pulled some numbers out of my butt for the forums. Fleet Sniper Setup: 8x 425II, 2x Sensor booster, 3x Tracking Computer 3x MagStab, 1x SigAmp, 1x DC, 1x MAR Can fit all t2. Sure you can't fit the tank that the Mega can, small price to pay for the extra DPS in a modern fleet combat situation with capital logistics and wtfbbq DPS. You can plate up a mega true, frankly the loss of speed once you start adding multiple plates isn't really worth it, especially taking into account that combat rarely lasts longer than the 800's do. The only reason to fly the plate Mega is NOS however with twin med boosters on the Hype and the option to burst run the second rep (NOS boats are hardly the kings of DPS) then that can be avoided. I'd give your argument more weight if you were willing to back it up with fittings and math, I don't think for a second my set-ups are the be all and end all. Also if your fitting faction it's hardly a fair comparison cheap or not. So humor the obvious noob, provide evidence of your data or kindly silence and remove yourself. [EDIT: I lack expertise in spelling also it would seem]
Ozzie Asrail Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:50:00 - [13] I do agree faction ships need a bit of a boost, cpu and base stats could use a good buff on both the vindi and navythron. But you picked a bad example since ions suck for a navy mega and they are sort-of ballanced towards fitting faction mods anyway. But ofc yea put same faction mods on the hype and it pulls way back into the lead again. -----
Laura Baretta Minmatar Excidium.	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:56:00 - [14] It's black!
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.19 18:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf -counter argument- 1 - Fleet Setup. Wheres your MWD? 0.0 fleet combat? The sensible allainces require it on fleet fits. For remote reps to be effective you need to survive the initial lock and cycle times, this is where plates come in very handy. For fleet i'd choose my Mega any day of the week. 2 - The comparitive Hyperion setup uses the same two cheap faction hardeners. Try some fittings with A Dark blood hardener and a Dark Blood ANP. Fittings: Hyperion:- 8x Ion II Named MWD 2 Disruptors Web Heavy Cap Booster 2x LAR II DB Exp Hardener EANM II DB ANP DCU II Ancillery Current Router 2x Aux Nano Pumps 5x Hammerhead II 678 DPS w/ Void 875 DPS tanked 73.7k Effective HP --- Navy Mega 7x Electron II Named MWD Disruptor Web Heavy Cap Booster 2x LAR II 3x Armor Hardener (EXP/KiN/THERM, 1 DB) DB ANP DCU II Mag Stab II 5x Ogre II Ancillary Current Router 2x Aux Nanos 848 DPS w/ Void 766 DPS tanked 101.6k effective HP --- As above but replace Mag Stab with 2nd DB ANP 748 DPS w/ Void 882 DPS tanked 110.4k effective HP --- Comparing these 3 stats I am of the oppinion that the Navy Mega is the stronger of the two ships. Of course ther are a dozen more statistics we could bring into this debate, different strengths and weaknesses, skills, but for now lets keep it simple. Bottom line I disagree with you on this one, although I have to say you lay down your arguments well. -----
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.19 18:40:00 - [16] MWD's in fleet combat... I musta not got the memo. Though I can see the wisdom of doing so. Me I'd stick with the classic range and DPS fit and sphere them, every ship forced to warp out warps back into one of the cov ops that are orbiting at range, that speed advantage means jack when you need to go in every direction at once. As for the setups much appreciated. Far better grounds for discussion. However alter the Hyperion setup to include a Magstab or two. 8x IonII MWDII, fleeting Web, fleeting Scram, 2x Med BoosterII (800s) 2x LARII, 2x EANMII 2x MagStabII (Alternatively 1x named DCU 1x MagStabII) Also the additional DPS of the drones is nice but take into account the points in the OP. Though that I confess it is a matter of personal taste. As for the faction kit and to a lesser extent the rigs, it's nice but the main point was regarding the balance the Mega and the Hype (the inclusion of the Navy Mega was purely to exaggerate the point) which generally one doesn't want to pimp even to this lesser extent. If I were fitting for a pimp setup I'd stick some faction reppers on the Hype over the Navy Mega any day. Additional: Nice to have a discussion on these forums that doesn't degrade into "blah, blah, blah, I'm not listening" care to compare with a superior set-up for the Navy Mega without faction?
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.19 18:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf MWD's in fleet combat... I musta not got the memo. Though I can see the wisdom of doing so. Me I'd stick with the classic range and DPS fit and sphere them, every ship forced to warp out warps back into one of the cov ops that are orbiting at range, that speed advantage means jack when you need to go in every direction at once. As for the setups much appreciated. Far better grounds for discussion. However alter the Hyperion setup to include a Magstab or two. 8x IonII MWDII, fleeting Web, fleeting Scram, 2x Med BoosterII (800s) 2x LARII, 2x EANMII 2x MagStabII (Alternatively 1x named DCU 1x MagStabII) Also the additional DPS of the drones is nice but take into account the points in the OP. Though that I confess it is a matter of personal taste. As for the faction kit and to a lesser extent the rigs, it's nice but the main point was regarding the balance the Mega and the Hype (the inclusion of the Navy Mega was purely to exaggerate the point) which generally one doesn't want to pimp even to this lesser extent. If I were fitting for a pimp setup I'd stick some faction reppers on the Hype over the Navy Mega any day. Additional: Nice to have a discussion on these forums that doesn't degrade into "blah, blah, blah, I'm not listening" care to compare with a superior set-up for the Navy Mega without faction? I'd love to but neither fit to my liking without... I fly my Standard Megathron with a full gank fit, its good bang for buck. However i'd feel silly doing the same on a Hyperion and most likly wasting such a good bonus. In general T2 fittings, Hype is a far better tank, Mega is far better gank. I don't fly my Hype at all now due to CPU problems caused by the EANM changes, and I've not felt the inclination to adapt my setup. Pitty really it did well for itsself. -----
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.19 19:19:00 - [18] Might sir recommend the above setup to relieve your Hyperion blues. With some rigs fitted it's pretty darn mean, with faction reppers it's downright scary. The problem with the Mega is it used to be lord of the gank, then the Hype cam along, which can fit a far better gank set-up if you single rep it, waste of the bonus I know but you get more out of it than the tracking bonus on the mega vs a webbed opponent. The HP boost was a large blow to gank tactics, now the Mega can't manage to break a lot of serious tanks before getting shredded or capping out. You don't win in the first min you lose, well a slight exaggeration but it sounds catchy. It seems at the moment tank > than gank, cap is still life, and NOS is the herald of death. Can't argue with the tank thing though, longer combat and all that, just hope CCP hurry up with the targeting of modules so gank tactics can return to the fray. The only reason I ever get in a Mega these days is because it's a cheap disposable fleet ship.
Cherybol Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.07.19 19:22:00 - [19] Mega's are just the standard fleet ops ship, there cheap and they just work. I havn't looked at Navy Mega's, but it looks to be like its borked compared to a Hyperion. Which is unfair because Navy Mega's look damn fine, while Hyperions, I guess whoever designed the model for it just took a crap one day and based it off that.
Justcause	Posted - 2007.07.20 19:48:00 - [20] Yes faction ships do need abit of a boost so they can compeat better with tire 3 but imo the main problem ic here is that ur too poor to a4d faction so go out make 7bill and fit it right then if it dnt work moan sumore till then shhhh

LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.20 20:06:00 - [21] Only good navy thron setup was killed somewhere in catch. Heikki 4tw -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Zubakis Bambooule TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.07.20 21:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Chronus26 ... setups ... I want to comment on the 2 setups you posted. 1. If you drop to electrons and use a ROF rig instead of the energy grid rig, you will deal more dps on your hype. And when you use 5 ogres on the navy mega, then u should use 4 ogres on the hype too (or 3 ogres and 2 hammerheads). Look now you deal more damage. 2. Why do you need an energy grid rig on your navy mega? I can fit a similar setup on a regular mega, without this rig. And have room for a heavy nos. -- Zuba
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.20 22:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Zubakis Originally by: Chronus26 ... setups ... I want to comment on the 2 setups you posted. 1. If you drop to electrons and use a ROF rig instead of the energy grid rig, you will deal more dps on your hype. And when you use 5 ogres on the navy mega, then u should use 4 ogres on the hype too (or 3 ogres and 2 hammerheads). Look now you deal more damage. 2. Why do you need an energy grid rig on your navy mega? I can fit a similar setup on a regular mega, without this rig. And have room for a heavy nos. I didnt think about either of these things. on #2: I rigged it in EFT before I fitted guns, started to fit Ions then for some unknown reason decided they wouldnt fit without actually trying it first and made an Electron fit instead on the basis that Elecys and 1 mag stab out-DPS Ions with none. In light of this i'd adapt my more tank-y Navythron setup to use Ions and keep the PG rig. On the Electron setup w/ Mag-stab i'd remove the PG rig and replace it with either a Semiconducter Memory Cell or another Aux Nano (although this makes it rather sluggish unfortunatly). Bear in mind that these setups are theoretical, intended to prove that the Navy Mega isn't 'useless' or 'pointless'. Not that i'd object to some shiney boosts on my favorite BS though Anywhoo imma go back to spinning my Navythron in my hanger. -----
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.07.20 22:32:00 - [24] ITS FRICKIN BLACK As others have said the only thing it can do better than the hype/vindi is passive neutron gank but tbh there isent that great of a diff even here. Navy mega, poc & temp all need a boost snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.07.21 00:40:00 - [25] You take a standard Neutron Blasterthron setup, with 3 1600 plates and 3 trimarks. Then u get a navy thron. You put ANOTHER 1600RT in the extra low. It had more armor to start with. Now you have 1300 dps and lik e45- 50 THOUSAND armor. Thats the point. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
xeom Coagulated	Posted - 2007.07.21 00:57:00 - [26] roflcakes rep mega. --- Coagulated -Videos- Viciously Delicious New! Non-Entity
Vim Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2007.07.21 01:11:00 - [27] Originally by: SasRipper ITS FRICKIN BLACK Spot on the point of the navy mega ^_^ me wants one... in the future... and its just because of the blackness that shines like gold upon the sea of chaos <- is high on coffeine so ignore him, plz. /* Whats a guy got to do to get a smile off around here */
Skraelingz Gallente Caldari Bank Interstellar Corporate Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 03:22:00 - [28] all i want is a faction domi that gives +1 to drones controlled per level or somthing... i mean hell a CNR gets 7 launchers why cant i have more drones? -----------------------------------------------
doctorstupid2 Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.21 03:49:00 - [29] Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 21/07/2007 03:50:17 Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf MWD's in fleet combat... I musta not got the memo. Though I can see the wisdom of doing so. Me I'd stick with the classic range and DPS fit and sphere them, every ship forced to warp out warps back into one of the cov ops that are orbiting at range, that speed advantage means jack when you need to go in every direction at once. Wow. Just... wow. I was going to try and contribute to this here thread, and then I got to this part, and it became apparent it would be a waste of effort. Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go
Oxymoron666 Gallente Demogorgon's Army	Posted - 2007.07.21 08:48:00 - [30] Originally by: SasRipper ITS FRICKIN BLACK AMEN BROTHER, it's pimp'n. I used a hyp, and i still like my NM more. tho boosts would still be nice.



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