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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
CubePusher
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Posted - 2004.02.03 18:16:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
Well i think that perception is primary is good for gunner.
As perception is eye to had cordination.
And willpower is more concentration
U cant hit something if u dont see it no mather how hard u concentrate :D
Well thats my opion.
Just wondering wasent perception primary before on gunner ?
Someone said that in a different thread about the same subject and i cant be bothered to write it all again so :
Quote:
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having Willpower as the driving attribute behind the usage and mastering of guns doesnt make any sense. You dont have to be determined to aim weapons precisely and predict the motion of a target, that is exactly what Perception is.
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I've been thinking about that statement and i cant see how perception makes more sense than will power, we are talking about the learning of new skills and the fine tunning of exsting ones. The ability to aim weapons and predict target motion is only something improved with practice, inteligence memory etc isnt really a factor in it so the way to get better at using guns is through practice, a person with will power would practice alot more and alot harder than someone who doesnt have will power, perception is not an attribute that effects learning. Another thing that REALLY does NOT make sense about perecption being the main attribute for gunnery based on what i quoted from you above is this, you say that the ability to aim weapons and to perdict the motion of a target is what perception is? then why are there skills like sharpshooter and motion prediction? and more to the point how much sense does it make training perception with perception? If it was all to make sense surely perception wouldnt even be an attribute.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=56093#25
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Dajjal
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Posted - 2004.02.04 13:49:00 -
[32]
:/
i have perception 15 and willpower 22 (potentially 25 if i can be bothered to now get an implant)
taking the formula above...
previously i trained guns and ships at 22+15/2 (=29.5) points per minute
now its 15+22/2 (=26) points per minute
initially i though this wasnt too bad - but factor in that this 3.5 points less per minute over an hour is 210 less points
over a day its 5040 points
over a month it is 151,200 points...
and this doesnt factor in learning lvl 5
sux tbh 
_______________________
E pluribus unum |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.06 09:33:00 -
[33]
no reply from GM's?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:58:00 -
[34]
For me I have not found that the perception was overly usefull before the change. Mostly very usefull for ships, but you don't need that many ship skills. And usefull for some of the gunnery skills, but some had intelligence etc, so perc didn't help that much before.
It would of course be nice if Will had more use. Hmmm, wonder what area that would be. Perhaps for more specialized weapons, like smartbombs, mines etc?
/Phoibos
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Artegg
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Posted - 2004.02.06 23:56:00 -
[35]
I took over this account about 2 weeks in to the game. I was playing him but a m8 of mine created him, the problem is at the end of chara creation Artegg was left with 3 perception now with lvl 5 in spatical skill and a implant i am only at 11 perception. Ever since i got this game i have wanted to be a combat pilot but i can not help but see the problem i am stuck with here. As a result now i find i never use this chara i use my 2nd account who i created, who is much more balanced. I welcome this change for all the people in this game who got the chara selection wrong and now have a change to make it back, Also who is to say 8 months down the line this will not change back 
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Aralis
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Posted - 2004.02.07 11:46:00 -
[36]
This is another stupid fiddle CCP. It's brutally unfair to those who have created characters on an assumption and makes willpower a useless stat. It's simply wrong to change basic things like this.
But the worst thing is it's pointless. EVEN if it made the game better it's worrying. Why are you bothering with this fiddly nonsense when you should be introducing tech 2. Introduce new stuff - don't nerf old stuff!
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Drutort
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Posted - 2004.02.07 18:58:00 -
[37]
im some what lucky... but not really, my intel/mem highest not sure why, when i started it seemed that everything was intel/mem and it is still for many of the other skills out there
my perc is third and funny that char is 4th and will is last!!
BUT i remember that i had will pretty good because there was a time in the game that there was a display bug or so and 1 or 2 attrib were moved around either taken away from will and put some other place... kind sucked
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Conman
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Posted - 2004.02.08 22:30:00 -
[38]
Stupid
I am drunken irish slave hahaha i live
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Clipped Wings
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Posted - 2004.02.09 02:54:00 -
[39]
Somewhat intriguing, this.
I created this character as my first, ever, and started out with a whooping Charisma 11 as my first and foremost stat. Dunno why it happened, but sure, my agent loves me. Occasionally. Of course, that agent missions have been somewhat...garbled underway, and most NPC dealers (if not all?) have gone, charisma is worth nothing to me now. My agent still loves me, occasionally. Which isn't really an option, considering the amount of missions done.
Where does this all tie in with the perception/willpower thingie?
Here:
My willpower started at 5, it's at 10 now, including an implant, and I doubt I'll get it much higher.
So, it seems, I am the lucky one. As I never really cared about my attributes - cheers to those Amarr pilots who are now stuck with a useless attrib - I sympathize.
Cripes: When CCP changes attribute worth, it should only be done to future character selections, although I know it'd most likely be a massive strain on the servers. But still, changing the rules in the middle of a game is not kosher.
And someone, please tell me what I can do with my Charisma 16 at present? Something? Anything?
-Clipped Wings of LFC
-Clipped Wings of LFC
"I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man."
~William Hazlitt
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Freya Jones
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Posted - 2004.02.09 12:14:00 -
[40]
Huh, everybody posting here goes on about willpower being the big combat stat, but I was always under the impression it was perception. Glad I made my toon with mostly level stats, but I do feel sorry for all of you left in the cold now, well, except for you Amarrian slaver scum...
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Kyndoku
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Posted - 2004.02.14 17:07:00 -
[41]
Still no word from anyone at CCP on this? Dissapointing. 
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Keila Meriel
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Posted - 2004.02.14 20:51:00 -
[42]
Uh it sure helped me hehee. But yeah, I don't think this is right.
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rewozz
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Posted - 2004.02.16 03:55:00 -
[43]
Deal with it amarr scum, time for minmatar payback :b
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.02.16 10:22:00 -
[44]
It does seem insane to change something like this. I didn't know how the game worked when I created my character (in fact I prefer it a bit like this) and ended up with a high willpower and low-ish perception on the basis that in the manual it said that willpower was good for flying ships. However since then my training strategy has been based around what my stats are and what the skills' attributes are. By all means make all new ships skills based on willpower and all new gunnery skills based on perception, but why turn the existing situation upside down? And if you are going to keep this change, how come all the starship skills haven't been changed to willpower at the same time?
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Tituan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:44:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Tituan on 16/02/2004 18:55:15
Hmmmmm... Guess its a good thing I have all my slaves now doing the gunnery work. I keep a slaver hound leashed to each slave.
If the slave doesn't perform well I give the hound a painfull shock from its collar. The hound generally doesn't like this...
The slave dislikes it even more.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 12:37:00 -
[46]
Spaceship Cmd NEEDS to be willpower first.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Paddyman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 12:59:00 -
[47]
Does anyone feel we should be allowed a slight charactor re-spec of our attributes after we hit say 5-million skillpoints.
Reasons been,
1. when eve first came out, esp the inital 2-3 weeks there was little to no good official documetation, as a result many people made charactors with attributes that are infact terrible.
2. The game has turned out ALOT different than most have expected, even to those of us who were in beta.
3. Many ppl are playing the game alot different then they intended as they find it more fun, and as such the charactor you created as a naive noob is in fact holding you back from becoming what you want.
4. The reason i say about 5 mill points is by then you should have a clue about how the game works and how you want to play it.
I do care about developing my char to become what i want him to be, i take pride in it and so do many ppl. So what i suggest here is at a stage of say 5mill point we should be allowed to respec our attributes of mem,will,int etc.
To avoid abuse it could be set so you can only change a max of say 6-8 points and change a single stat like Willpower by no more the +- 3 or 4 points.
It wont revolutionise a charactor but will let you give your charactor a boost in the direction you want him to go.
What you all think?
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:07:00 -
[48]
I totally agree with the thoughts behind your idea, Paddy. But, I would rather see a SWG-like system, where you can always change your characters attributes, but it's a slow process.
Say you could move one attribute point every other week, that would make it possible to mold your character but would still disallow abuse in form of allocating the most points where it is needed at that particular moment!
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Paddyman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:17:00 -
[49]
True night but i think that would open up power leveling alot,which could be a form of abuse, IE someone has all lvl 4 gunnery skills and decides hes going into pvp completly nad wants to bring them up to lvl 5. Normally overall this will take a few months and many of us have done this with just avg willpower/perception stats,with that system he'll just put his willpower+perc stats to over 30 and power lvl it, which would be completely unfair.
So in effect with this system there would be no real distribution of your attributes. Im not sure that would work, also in swg you use and loose your points like action every time you attack, so there needed just to play the actual game.
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:33:00 -
[50]
I'm just concerned that I might in the future want to change the way I play - which happens (to at least me alot) and will then be stuck with what I have chosen.
Say I was allowed to move one attribute point every other week - that would mean 2 points per month only. I don't know whether this would be too much, but I think it wouldn't. If it would, make it even less - but make it possible, in my opinion. Flexibility is never a bad thing, and EVE isn't flexible at all when it comes to character changes :/
Btw, I still long for an option to change my ugly avatar! Make it possible! Grrrrr!
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Tituan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:45:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Tituan on 18/02/2004 19:49:58
Being Amarr this really hurts, however I don't want to see anykind of attribute respecing in EVE. EVE characters are already very flexible and can develope their characters in any way they wish too. Respecing would just end up being chars changing their stats to learn whatever skill they are training more efficiently.
We need more willpower skills. But please don't introduce a respec system. EVE characters are gods as it is.
The nerf bat swings both ways. Eventually willpower will be usefull again. So if you wasted your one respec to switch to perception, you would be devastated if they changed things back to will. And of course then people would demand another respec.
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CubePusher
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Posted - 2004.02.19 00:35:00 -
[52]
yeah i agree with tituan, i dont want to see a whole new system being put in place over this, the system is fine the way it the only thing that sucks now is they've made will power useless. The solution? simple, more GOOD skills with will power as the primary.
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CubePusher
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Posted - 2004.02.19 04:30:00 -
[53]
another idea comes to mind, they could make it so the training time is based on both the attributes without giving a bonus to either, like you could have a gunnery skill where perception is the primary and will power is the secondary but have it so the training time is based on the average of the two, so:
will power = 20
perception = 11
31/2 = 15.5 = the training time, anyone get what im saying cause im having a hard time putting it into words? 
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:08:00 -
[54]
That would also benefit those who went for an all-round spread of attribs.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Dajjal
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Posted - 2004.02.19 13:05:00 -
[55]
i tailored this char from birth to fly ships and shoot guns - and now with no reasoning or explanation CCP just throw out the major aspect of the character i chose
i have 25 willpower (i got that implant - they seem to be pretty cheap these days for some reason) and now no skills to use it on
i understand the need for balance - but in this there is none
to paraphrase Josh's sig...
<?CCP if ($thisAttribute=="Willpower")
echo " id=\"nerf\""; ?>
_______________________
E pluribus unum |
Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.02.19 18:47:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Tokka Konnair on 19/02/2004 18:48:47
be nice if DNA mutators were a fix for this
example:
Perception <=> Willpower mutator switches around your perception and Willpower stats by altering your characters DNA
only problem with that is that it rewards people who made one stat high as they possibly could, penalising those with more rounded stats
maybe mutators would be incompatable with implants?
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.02.19 19:01:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Tokka Konnair on 19/02/2004 19:10:58
actualy that would work pretty well wouldn't it?
the players with balanced stats use implants to increase them to the 15 and above mark
players who started with one stat at above 15 would use mutators to keep it primary
mutators wouldn't be removable so you can switch between the benefits (ie: i have high perception and have finished with all the other stats so i 'unplug' my mutator and get uber perception with an implant)
it would be possible to switch between mutators but you would always have one mutator active
the reason for this goes quite well with the in game storyline too: like the jovians, once you have began to alter your DNA there's no turning back
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CubePusher
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Posted - 2004.02.19 23:58:00 -
[58]
yeah that would be cool but i see two problems with that, first one is you'd probably need uber high skills to train whatever you'd need to use these "mutators" which no doubt would be based upon memory and intelligence, second one is that it would take them AGES to implement it as its a whole new technology, they'd have to think about it, design all the little graphics, think about it, code it, think about it, sort out the bugs, think about it, test it for ages and then maybe, if the gods are happy, they'll start to think about adding it to the game in a few months. What i was proposing shouldn't be more than editing a few lines of existing code and a tiny change to the UI, don't get me wrong i like your idea and i'd love to see it in the game but my characters stats (along with alot of other peoples stats) have been utterly trashed now, i need a quick fix for this and i really cant see a downside to it being added.
p.s
sorry for the sucky grammer......tis been a long ass day.
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.02.20 01:17:00 -
[59]
actualy the skill for DNA mutators "Genetic Engineering" has been in for a while....i think it's possible to make characters with it
you're right though CubePusher, what you guys need is a quick fix
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.02.20 09:46:00 -
[60]
Yay ! 24 willpower .. Good thing I have a +4 percep plugged in and lvl 5 spatial analysis.. so I have a whopping 14 percep..
Hope they give us some decent willpower based skills soon..
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