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Game balance WAY outta whack..

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Alteric Valar	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:29:00 - [1] Hi there, i just wanted to post some insight. I am a miner..a solo miner (for the most part) I do not have a second account (most others do for hauling). I would like to point out, that with the current ore thief situation, its impossible for a solo miner to mine "solo". Sure ccp gives us the 15 minute "go ahead and shoot them if ya like rule", but what good is that when you fly a barge, and they are flying a tech 2 ship? They will just kill us if we open fire. Sure people say, just use secure cans..but has anyone noticed the cargo space on the biggest one? It's less than the covetor's cargo hold. What good is that? I can fill a giant secure can in 1 and 1/2 pulls from a barge..thats a joke! The game is way out of balance, if someone cant join the game and mine solo in secure space. There are several ways to remedy this..#1 give us way larger secure cans..#2 make jetcans secure..#3 make it so we can fire on an ore thief, but if they return fire, concord ganks them..I hope this situation is repaired soon. It really may just convince me to leave game if something isnt fixed. Makes me wonder if ccp is pushing for everyone to only corp mine, or buy second accounts..either way is not an option for me. Feel free to add adittional insight, perhaps some of you have a better solution..thanks..Alteric Valar..
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:33:00 - [2] 1. Holy wall of text batman! 2. Larger giant secure containers have been suggested actually - I'm all for this idea 3. Just because you can fly a mining barge doesn't mean you can't hop in a battleship and put the hurt on ore thieves - if you can't, it's no fault of anyone but your own. You're allowing yourself to be victimized. 4. By threatening to leave you've just lost the vast majority of your credibiltiy since it sounds like a bit for attention, e.g. "ZOMG I shall cancel all my accounts if this is not folved pronto!" Basically, you have tools with which to fight ore thieves, but they're dependent on you and no one else (unless you choose to make it so, like many do). You can't expect CCP to come to your rescue. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION \| Forum Whiners - Unite!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Alteric Valar Sure ccp gives us the 15 minute "go ahead and shoot them if ya like rule", but what good is that when you fly a barge, and they are flying a tech 2 ship? They will just kill us if we open fire. Well a barge won't do it but a Hulk sure can. Killed a Caracal ore thieving from me just a week ago. No way he could break my tank and T2 med drones on him finished him off quite nicely (guess he didn't expect a web and scram on my Hulk either). Besides, unless they are thieving with a hauler they generally cannot take very much. Even a battleship's cargo hold is fairly limited when it comes to nabbing ore. Oh...and try paragraphs...they help a lot.
Chavu Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:36:00 - [4] You don't have to jet-can mine. Retriever and above can happily solo mine without a hauler. It's a PERFECT example of risk v reward. If you want to be 100% safe from other players then EvE is not the game for you.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:39:00 - [5] wall of text. but to sum it up for others this is basically a whine about a mining ship not able to kill a T2 ship lol but wait! there is a good point in there! cans, secure cans Vs.jet cans. now on my friends new account I show them how to jettisoning cargo in there reaper noob ship. I noticed that the can was bigger than his chip, but still very small. Now I went on and dropped a giant secure can, The thing was about 20 times larger than my rifter. but... it held less than a jet can... which was about 20 times smaller than it... there is some sort of problem here. However, it is not game balance, if your mining your defenseless, that's just the way it is. But as far as the giant cans go I think they need a look at. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:47:00 - [6] I've got an alt in a hulk mining semi-afk while I run missions. It's solo mining in one window, solo missioning in the other. Key: the right skills and equipment. A hulk with two t2 expanders and two t1 cargo rigs can hold 17,199 m^3 of rock. That's about 5 cycles (or 15 minutes) before I have to warp in to dock. Also, please remember that this is a multiplayer game. Not every activity is optimized for solo play.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 29/07/2007 05:51:52 mine in level 2/3 mission deadspace, ore thieves will never find you and just for the record mmog stands for massively MULTIPLAYER online game, it isn't and won't be balanced for soloing... EVER Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
Callista Hawble	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:54:00 - [8] want a few suggestions? 1st. change your bio, with the way you have it setup currently you are marking yourself for that kind of stuff. 2nd. stop complaining about game mechanics that have been in place forever, and get your corporation to run security for its miners...solo sponsored or corp sponsored. 3rd. if you leave can i have your stuff? 4th. if you must mine solo, look around for dead systems with stations, don't stay in a system that you know is visited by thieves 5th. by the looks of your bio, you seem to be the type of player that "smack talks" in local to these known thieves you name. Don't egg em on and let em have there few chunks of ore and move somewhere else
Lance Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:05:00 - [9] I could mention that afaik, ore thieving is the response to the exploit of using a jetcan to mine into. Being a Fleet Commander and a Arbitrator pilot are the same thing - The only difference being that the Fleet Commander commands other people, and the people actually listen to him.
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:08:00 - [10] I think the most fun solution is to get people to protect you for a % of the ore you pull in, But if you got to solo then go to the lesser used area's of EVE like down South but still in Empire. You only realy get thieves in the Caldari and north FWIK or have seen. A Minmater City... Cool! My Skills
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Lance Fighter I could mention that afaik, ore thieving is the response to the exploit of using a jetcan to mine into. Exploit? Never was an exploit. CCP said it was unintended but they never declared it an exploit and I do not think any person ever was banned for jet can mining. And as far as "unintended" goes...well...people were jet can mining in Beta so unitended it may have been but people were doing it probably 10 minutes after they were introduced into the game and CCP never saw fit to change it. And ore thieving has been around forever as well. The flagging system was put in place to offer something to the miners to be able to fight back. So, far from being an "exploit" CCP saw fit to add to the whole system via can flagging mechanics.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:37:00 - [12] Jetcan should remain as they are save for one small change, in my opinion; when someone steals from a jetcan, the owner of said can gets a nice little pop up window telling them that the sensors are showing that so and so is stealing from their jetcan. At this point, they have a selection of three different solutions to this problem: 1. I'll deal with it personally 2. Call in CONCORD 3. Disregard And, for low security space and below, option #2 simply is greyed out. It would give those not able to defend themselves justice, those who can defend themselves the opportunity to gank and loot the thief, and those who are mining outside of gangs to not kill each other.
Enraku Reynolt Minmatar Veni Vidi Vici. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:57:00 - [13] gotta love the whole "get ina bs and kill them" sounds great in theory in practice..your gonna get that miner killed (though you probly wanted that..shame on you) or. if the thief is smart. the instant you warp off to get your fighting ship. his friend. or alt will warp in, grab the ore and be gone you come back and get no chance to fight for your ore honestly, the best way to solve alot of things is to bring back the old concord the ones that warped in like normal ships and in semi high sec they have 2-3 frigs and cruiser and it would only get worse if you fight back so if you want to cause trouble you could if you was ready to run, or had the power and guts to duke it out just need to adjust the build up so we dont end up with m0o-like 1.0 gate camps that sort of thing should be possable for up to 10 min at best in a 0.7and lower, but not just hours of it ------------------------------------------------ Do not let the world change you. Change the world Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.29 07:25:00 - [14] I mine, and just recently I have done some math calculation about this problem, my results: 1) larger GCS almost certanly CCP isn't putting them up as they will help much more BS mining than barge mining. The BS can fill the hold in less than 2 cycles (1 minute lenght) if they go for the mining enhancements and can outmine a retriever. But with the limited carggohold they now need to chose between docking to deliver the minerals or jetcanning. The only advantage of the retriever is that with the cargo extender the miner can keep almost 2 full cycles and a covetor a bit more, so while a BS that don't want to jetcan must dock every 2 minutes, a barge need to dock only every 6 minutes, even a bit more if you use rigs. A anchored GSC help the BS has it has more than duble the cargohold, getting her the same endurance of a barge, but still it is not so convenient as emptying it require a trip with an industrial (remember, only 1 anchored can every 5.000 meters). A 8.000 m3 can (for example) will give a barge only a extra x2 cargo space, while a tyoical BS will get something like a x6 or x7 extra space. So putting in game larger GSC would help more the BS than the barges. 2) using a hauler and jetcanning for a barge give a 20-25% increase in mining jeld, so it is really worth doing it instead of docking to drop the mineral if you mine in a large gang. (if you are working in a system with a station) What I think it would be better for game balance is giving the barge and exumers 1 extra low slot without changing CPU and grid. As CCP is adding a stacking nerf to mining upgrades and the barges/exumers don't have the CPU for a third mining upgrade it will be used for a expander, giving the ship a longer endurance while mining. 3) I am not an ore thief, but any situation where a player can be fired upon without possibility of retaliation is wrong.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.29 07:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Lance Fighter I could mention that afaik, ore thieving is the response to the exploit of using a jetcan to mine into. PLEASE! If it is an exploit REPORT IT. If not STOP this refrain. It is the costant whine of the old guard "I was mining when an osperey was the mining ship".
Edania Caldari Ordo Adeptus Astartes Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.07.29 08:04:00 - [16] come on it doesnt take much thought here if you go to an area with a low density of miners it isnt profitable for the ore thieft to operate, where i usually mine if i empire mine is low population resonable ore (for empire) and 4 jumps off a trade hub, there are no thieves there, as an extra bonus these systems are rarely probed so you can get the mining exploration plexs yourself you just need to look beyond your immediate horizons Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.07.29 08:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Alteric Valar Hi there, i just wanted to post some insight. I am a miner..a solo miner (for the most part) I do not have a second account (most others do for hauling). I would like to point out, that with the current ore thief situation, its impossible for a solo miner to mine "solo". Sure ccp gives us the 15 minute "go ahead and shoot them if ya like rule", but what good is that when you fly a barge, and they are flying a tech 2 ship? They will just kill us if we open fire. Sure people say, just use secure cans..but has anyone noticed the cargo space on the biggest one? It's less than the covetor's cargo hold. What good is that? I can fill a giant secure can in 1 and 1/2 pulls from a barge..thats a joke! The game is way out of balance, if someone cant join the game and mine solo in secure space. There are several ways to remedy this..#1 give us way larger secure cans..#2 make jetcans secure..#3 make it so we can fire on an ore thief, but if they return fire, concord ganks them..I hope this situation is repaired soon. It really may just convince me to leave game if something isnt fixed. Makes me wonder if ccp is pushing for everyone to only corp mine, or buy second accounts..either way is not an option for me. Feel free to add adittional insight, perhaps some of you have a better solution..thanks..Alteric Valar.. Too bad you didnt bother train for paragraphs lv1 when you trained for a barge. Paragraphs. 1 paragraphs per level Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
Melissa Brown Cohortes Stellaris	Posted - 2007.07.29 08:55:00 - [18] You do know that EVE is a multiplayer game, do you? That being said, there is a multitude of options to avoid ore thiefs, but most of them, if not all include OTHER players. But if you insist to play solo, you'd be better off with a single player game... X3 maybe?
Fswd	Posted - 2007.07.29 09:44:00 - [19] Zzzz...what? Been there, done that in the other gazillion of topics --- Free exotic dancers for mods that mod my sig Snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected]) <-- freebie for you
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:11:00 - [20] Paragraphs, motherfirecracker! Do you know them?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:15:00 - [21] So, multiple characters working together are more effective than one character trying to do everything alone? And you think this is broken how exactly? You could just dock each time your hold fills up, as was the original intention. Yes it is inefficient compared with getting someone else to help you haul, but that is kinda the point of teamwork, non? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Horionte Eve University	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:37:00 - [22] I think the issue everyone's forgetting is the bit where ore thieves who are just doing it to mess with you actually blow up the jetcan (that's now theirs) therefore absolutely nullifying the point of a counterattack and probably blowing an hour's worth of mining -- The intelligence of the Earth is constant. Problem is, the population keeps rising.
Wanoah Minmatar NeuroGEN	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:55:00 - [23] It's essentially a risk vs reward thing - something that is all-important in Eve. Jet can mining is the most efficient method, but it also carries with it the risk of theft. You can still opt for lower risk methods (return to station and unload cargo hold every time it's full, get someone to stand by and haul for you, etc) but this isn't as efficient. What you have to look at as a player is the bigger picture. Overall, do you profit more by risking the theft of some of your ore, or is the thieving bad enough that it's worth taking a lower risk strategy? Incidentally, you don't tend to get very many ore thieves in 0.0...
Aralin Desentris Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:02:00 - [24] Edited by: Aralin Desentris on 29/07/2007 11:03:55 Edited by: Aralin Desentris on 29/07/2007 11:03:06 Originally by: Toria Nynys I've got an alt in a hulk mining semi-afk while I run missions. It's solo mining in one window, solo missioning in the other. Key: the right skills and equipment. A hulk with two t2 expanders and two t1 cargo rigs can hold 17,199 m^3 of rock. That's about 5 cycles (or 15 minutes) before I have to warp in to dock. Also, please remember that this is a multiplayer game. Not every activity is optimized for solo play. I do exactly the same when i'm running missions on my main account . Second account removes his mining upgrades and throws t2 expanders on to semi afk mine , while my 3rd account trundles off in his hauler to sit in a 1.0 somewhere slowly chipping away at an asteroid with a pair of scissors and a toothbrush :P Having to dock every 15 mins to unload my hulk doesn't slow me down , reason being , i align to my station as soon as i arrive at the belt , that way i get docked and out faster , thus loosing less time . Really i don't think we need larger secure tins , i've managed fine without them ( even before i had multiple accounts ). Oh , and with regards jetcan mining being an exploit ....... LoL ... if it was CCP wouldn't of added the game mechanics that flag ore thieves as criminals to the can owner(s) . If your going to stay as a miner , get used to making adjustments to your playstyle when active ore thieves turn up , ie changing ship loudout to maximum cargo rather than maximum yield , system hopping etc . Ore Thieving is a perfectly valid tactic ( trade ) , hence why they get flagged so if you wish you can ( attempt ) to kill them .
Mih0 Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:04:00 - [25] I CANT KILL EVERYONE WITH MY MINING BARGE AND THIS MAKES ME VERY ANGRY FIX THIS BROKEN GAME CCP
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:09:00 - [26] Maybe it's time they introduced a special mining can to replace jet can mining. Although it wasn't an intended mechanic (if i recall) , it is now the norm so maybe they should think about giving miners more tools to work with. GSC are woefully small for the needs of the modern miner. GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Avon So, multiple characters working together are more effective than one character trying to do everything alone? And you think this is broken how exactly? You could just dock each time your hold fills up, as was the original intention. Yes it is inefficient compared with getting someone else to help you haul, but that is kinda the point of teamwork, non? Part of the problem it is that it not so for a miner in a mining barge, unless they are more than 4.
Terra Rizing M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Tarminic 4. By threatening to leave you've just lost the vast majority of your credibiltiy since it sounds like a bit for attention, e.g. "ZOMG I shall cancel all my accounts if this is not folved pronto!" To be honest, a lot of changes to the game that were made in the past came from what you just said - people being attention w*****. Nothing new really --------------------------------
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:34:00 - [29] I have never had my ore stolen and I do a good amount of mining. I also only have one acccount, so it is possible to be a solo miner if you must do it, of course it cannot compare to having help. Quote: The game is way out of balance, if someone cant join the game and mine solo in secure space. Somebody can join this game and mine solo in 1.0 space just fine. They have aprox 400m3 cargo space, and can warp back and forth just fine. Considering they don't have the skills or money for a larger ship this is just like in other "new" character on a game like this with limited strength or backpack space. Quote: It really may just convince me to leave game if something isnt fixed. Makes me wonder if ccp is pushing for everyone to only corp mine, or buy second accounts..either way is not an option for me. Feel free to add adittional insight, perhaps some of you have a better solution..thanks..Alteric Valar.. Your suppose to work together with people, this is a MMORPG, if you want to play a single player game then do so. Stealing has been the same for awhile now, it doesn't need to be changed, it should not be something CONCORD reacts to. They could offer us additional ways to manage the minerals we mine, which might happen, it will just take time. Threating to leave if they don't add features so you can solo mine is just laughable.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:09:00 - [30] Welcome to EVE, now get a grip, or ehm... goodbye. Game balance completely out of whack, cause people can pick up the stuff you jet into space... wow... yeah, I'm so seeing the horrible inbalance here.

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