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shoofly
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Posted - 2007.07.30 06:02:00 -
[1]
I am just curious, since nerf bats to super capital class of ships (titans), I am just curious if there is alliances out there, that is not busy fighting a war (hehe), still planning on building them?
I don't want intel, post with an alt, and please no flames.
Titans, I believe are still useful for logistics, so would alliances build it just for that?
Motherships, are even becoming more popular, heck they auction them on the sell forums. And even some small industrial corps pump out dreads and carriers every few days, so to gather the resources to build a titan is possible.
And when you look at the ineve, where you can view character sheets, it has a listing for titan class pilots.
A little while ago there was a post that IAC killed a capital yard, and most of there alliance didn't even know it was there. So I am sure in some back corner there must be titan cooking somewhere.
So my question to anyone reading this, is building a titan still useful? And what is there role now, combat or logistic?
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.07.30 06:13:00 -
[2]
In my humble opinion, getting 30+ dreads is way better than getting one Titan atmo.
Similarly, I'd rather have 15+ carriers than one Mom.
That being said, the jump bridge portal of the Titan is still incredibly useful. However, the Titan, as a combat ship, is pretty much dead.
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
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Posted - 2007.07.30 06:27:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
In my humble opinion, getting 30+ dreads is way better than getting one Titan atmo.
Similarly, I'd rather have 15+ carriers than one Mom.
That being said, the jump bridge portal of the Titan is still incredibly useful. However, the Titan, as a combat ship, is pretty much dead.
Following your reasoning, you would also rather take 100 frigs than one BS, correct? 
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.07.30 06:29:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
In my humble opinion, getting 30+ dreads is way better than getting one Titan atmo.
Similarly, I'd rather have 15+ carriers than one Mom.
That being said, the jump bridge portal of the Titan is still incredibly useful. However, the Titan, as a combat ship, is pretty much dead.
Following your reasoning, you would also rather take 100 frigs than one BS, correct?
If I have 100 pilots for them, then hell yes.
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
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Posted - 2007.07.30 06:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
In my humble opinion, getting 30+ dreads is way better than getting one Titan atmo.
Similarly, I'd rather have 15+ carriers than one Mom.
That being said, the jump bridge portal of the Titan is still incredibly useful. However, the Titan, as a combat ship, is pretty much dead.
Following your reasoning, you would also rather take 100 frigs than one BS, correct?
If I have 100 pilots for them, then hell yes.
Or one pilot with 100 accos running?
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.07.30 06:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Or one pilot with 100 accos running?
Can you say "mental breakdown"? 
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.30 07:13:00 -
[7]
I think (or at least hope) that we can safely assume that any alliance building supercapitals already has all capable pilots in regular caps (unless those supercaps are personally funded, of course). Manpower is the more restricting resource for regular capital fleets while moolah is for supercaps.
And yes I think even Titans will stil be built, at least by the larger alliances that have regular exhaustive logistics to upkeep. But we might not see them on the battlefield.
Motherships will surely get built because in the super scheme of things they are relatively cheap. They are within the reach of wealthy individuals who want to step on the next level (just because they can afford to, usually).
No question moms have valuable applications in combat, but their usefulness is, in public, somewhat inflated. They are more vulnerable than is commonly thought among people with little experience with them (except in lowsec). Like Titans, they also serve as logistics boosters with their generous maintenance bays, though the crippled jumping distance makes travelling rather time-consuming aswell.
But whether genuinely the best bang for the buck or not, supercaps and especially moms represent higher goals that are sought because people run out of other goals.
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Chronus26
Gallente
Team Laser Explosion
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.30 09:53:00 -
[8]
I can imagine having a few Supercapitals in your alliance provides a nice little morale boost to the 'little guys' of the alliance. I'm sure people would be more willing to go into battle knowing they had 4 Motherships and a Titan on there back. The same goes on a smaller scale for Carriers.
I'm no expert on these things, but I get the feeling that the current boom of Mothership sales may be due to the fact that people bought/built them because they were virtulally untouchable, and now that comfort has gone they no longer consider the risks worthwhile.
I'm certain that we'll still se supercapital production continue despite the recent changes, as there are certainly groups in Eve at the moment that do have the tactical ability to construct & field them effectivly despite there new vulnerability.
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Zephyr Zhang
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.07.30 11:29:00 -
[9]
Any chance you could link me to the new changes Gents?
Zephyr Out
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Chronus26
Gallente
Team Laser Explosion
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.30 11:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zephyr Zhang
Any chance you could link me to the new changes Gents?
Capitals can no longer Jump-drive out of Bubbles since Revelations II. In esscence Supercapitals are tackelable by 'Dicters.
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Zephyr Zhang
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.07.30 11:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chronus26
Originally by: Zephyr Zhang
Any chance you could link me to the new changes Gents?
Capitals can no longer Jump-drive out of Bubbles since Revelations II. In esscence Supercapitals are tackelable by 'Dicters.
Ahhh ok, i knew that thought there were even more changes you were talkign about
Zephyr Out
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 13:39:00 -
[12]
The titan jump ability after firing a doomsday was also limited for 10mins wasnt it?
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Stork DK
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 13:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Oveur
Titans was never ment to be cost-effective. It's a huge d*ck
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If i could be a Super Hero, i would be AwesomeMan
Matari Ate The Amarrian Race |
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.30 13:56:00 -
[14]
Once sov. 4 hits, expect titans and moms to be churned out by the dozen. Risk-free supercap building.
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Plave Okice
Naughty 40
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 14:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Elmicker
Risk-free supercap building.
Greatly reduced risk yes, but certainly not risk free
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Chode Rizoum
Minmatar
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 14:11:00 -
[16]
BOOST HEL!
My Personal Killboard |
Ga Talune
Gallente
Chilling Deep Space Iceminers Syndicate
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 14:56:00 -
[17]
As written above: MS's are being produced several places and are getting even better established with sov. 4 system that key powerful alliances are able to sustain- the key to sov. 4 is that in the grand scheme of things even with a full out attack which only a hand full of alliances could pull on a well defended constellation you can still call in your buddies who are more than happy defending your entire home constellation and your MS/titan/capital producing POS's. IMO it was far to easy considering the huge time and resources put into just starting building a single MS not to mention a Titan - its far harder than most people think- I can't say much about ISS's personal experiences for tactical reasons but the actually theoretical time it takes, from start to finish, is far less than the actual even if you have the ISK, skills, people and no war interruptions like with sov. 4.
Hulk exhummers sales for B2B bulk or retail -
Exclusive Minmatar regions supplier -
convo/evemail or Ma Talune |
Gaige Gamba
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Posted - 2007.07.30 15:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Gaige Gamba on 30/07/2007 15:19:46
The three biggest changes to supercapitals:
1. Supercapitals can no longer jump out of a bubble. This includes mobile warp disruptors and warp disruption spheres launched by interdictors.
2. The Titan class ship can no longer remote activate its doomsday device.
3. The Titan class ship can not jump for 10 minutes after firing its doomsday device.
Imo, Titans are entirely not worth their production cost, unless their role bonuses are being applied to a massive gang of dreadnaughts, carriers, and/or motherships.
This is mostly because its role in combat, namely its doomsday device, the calling card of the Titan, is now useless (unless you have 20 suicide dictors handy to bubble up an entire enemy fleet, and another Titan to smack them with another one afterwards to seal the deal).
And even then, it can't jump for 10 minutes, leaving it wide open an exposed to an oncoming dreadnaught blob, and even any dreadnaughts still in the vicinity.
The re-institution of Titans as useful combat ships is very potentially a daunting task, assuming it is to be undertaken. The quickest fix I can imagine is doubling to tripling the damage output of a doomsday blast, and giving it 5 seconds to warm up instead of 15 (fuel consumption should be modified accordingly).
This would maybe allow a Titan pilot to snag an enemy fleet unawares, and it would still leave it vulnerable afterwards, potentially requiring a support fleet of triaged carriers to sustain it until it can jump out.
Another idea, is removing the 10 minute wait, leaving the doomsday damage alone, and leaving the Titans bonuses, and then allowing it to use a siege module.
This would allow it to become a dread-to-end-all-dreads, able to field 2x the firepower of an average dreadnaught, repping more, and giving many useful bonuses to the other dreads in its gang. It could use its DDD for the sake of removing support fleets and bubbles, allowing the fleet to jump away if they feel the need to while heavily bubbled and/or beseiged.
Orrr maybe I'm just crazy.
edit: The point is, CCP is being a role ****, and they just nerfed any useful (see: worth production cost) bonuses/abilities that Titans had. (easier and more cost effective to buy a full set of lg slaves for 20 or 30 dreadnaught/carrier pilots than build a Moros which is very likely to die if it sees combat)
Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid
holy damn, the pirate forum is like 10x less usefull than any of the other already un-usefull forums.
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Zombie Network
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Posted - 2007.07.30 15:52:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Zombie Network on 30/07/2007 15:53:14
The Titan isn't a combat vessel, and its Doomsday device is a supposed to be a defensive weapon not an offensive one.
The doomsday should only be used as a last resort weapon if the Titan gets itself into trouble and not an OMGWTFBBQ I-Win button that automatically makes you win almost every engagement you use it in.
There is no middle ground when it comes to Doomsdays. You either have no-risk where the pilots try to DD as many times a day as possible because even 2-3 kills covers the cost of the detonation, or you have low-risk where the pilots decide that using the Doomsday offensively is not worth it.
The Titan itself is still pretty much invincible provided the pilot is smart, keeps it out of harms way, and doesn't warp it into the middle of a hostile fleet.
The Titan is also far from useless, being able to jump several hundred m3 of stuff at a time is a huge logistical advantage and the jump bridge gives a massive strategic advantage to fleets operating in hostile territory.
I would rather battles were fought with the fleets, while the Titans handle the logistics and strategic positioning of fleets.
EDIT: Lets not forget the gang bonuses. They are also super awesome.
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Uskl Tikoti
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:47:00 -
[20]
As usual, people talk about titans with no experience. Only people with no clue about a titan wanted it nerfed, and still think its a useful piece of kit thats worth its isk.
I am ofc talking about Zombie Network, who clearly is with the 'we've not got one, it must be bad' brigade.
ahh well. You might nearly be right if we were lag free, de-sync free and generally bug free, but this is EVE, and so the nerfed Titan, is stuck being an occationally useful tool.
I certainly wouldn't spend the isk on any other ship when most of its tool are gone - watch curse/pilgrim sales fall to see why....
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zombie Network
Edited by: Zombie Network on 30/07/2007 15:53:14
The Titan isn't a combat vessel, and its Doomsday device is a supposed to be a defensive weapon not an offensive one.
CYVOK?
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