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Torp raven v. cruise raven - revisited (again!)

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vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:28:00 - [1] I have not played too much with Quickfit to find out about fitting, but it looks as if one has to compromise the tank a bit to get 6 siege onto a Raven - i.e. fit a copro instead of a PDS, drop to a large booster instead of XL, etc. I am wondering whether it is actually worth it? I have found that cruise can be used on the webbing/scrambling frigates (which are the worst threat IMHO) from long range; shoot at them once, it does damn all, but then they turn on their MWD and a couple of volleys melts them. Of course, cruise have longer range as well and get there faster - limiting factor for me, as probably with everyone else, is locking range. Whereas torps aren't all that good for range - I forget, but 60km sounds about right unless you're using javelins, and that's pretty expensive for missioning. And of course the damage takes an age to start happening. Maybe it depends on the mission (short range, lots of BS rats, use torps but otherwise use cruise) but what does everyone think? At the moment I'm using cruise II. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:56:00 - [2] Just a comment on range. A raven with level 4 bs, level 4 missile bombardment and level 4 missile projection have 100km range. If you want to kill stuff beyond that you will need a sensor booster anyway. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Fitz VonHeise United Connection's	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:34:00 - [3] Fit as many Sieges as you can and use small drones to take out jam/scram frigs.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:42:00 - [4] Actually if you are a Raven and use range, you are doing something terribly wrong. The beauty of the Raven is that it can sit in the middle of them (or fly towards the next gate) and blast them with no care for tracking or optimal while tanking everything coming to you. If you want to snipe, you will do MUCH better with the race specific turret boats. Not to mention that even when shooting torps at range (like when the closest spawn is 70km from warpin), they hit the MWDing frigs for plenty of damage just like cruise do. Yes, torps do require more expensive fitting (normally you get more CPU by using faction mods, not by fitting a copro), but they are definitely worth it if you know what you are doing. But they do require more micromanagement and knowledge of the NPCs (to minimize overkill), so are nothing for lazy 'just running a mission' types. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:23:00 - [5] Edited by: KISOGOKU on 30/07/2007 13:32:43 I was planning my CNR 7 * siege (tech 2 or DG/CN they have same cpu req but PG will be problem for tech 2 with 2 pdus on CNR but no problem with raven) 1 * TS/DB/Amarr navy heavy nos 2 * DG/CN hardener 1 * DG/Cn invul 1 * TS/DB cap recharger 1 * Gist C-type X-large 1 * Domination boost amp 3* DG/CN BCU 2* TS/DB PDU AWU 4 , 5% launcher cpu implant 8.5 cpu and 1072.25 PG left for CNR. AWU 4 ,no implant 6 * tech 2 siege and 1 faction heavy nos (1 empty slow put whatever you want) 51.4 cpu and 1069.49 PG left for raven.I think only problem isk you have to spend GL Of course enginering 5, electronic 5 ,energy grid upgrades 4 Edit : Of course 51.5 cpu left is not something to be proud of ,you can play with slots until you are ok (and can save some money),i was just thinking this setup for CNR and had to be carefull with cpu
Roy Gordon Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:38:00 - [6] I use a mix of torps and cruise- 4 x Arb Torp and 2 x Arb Cruise. This gives good potential against the big and small rats. As to the question of range, I start firing at the rats at the range they appear, why wait until they get into their firing range eh? That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Vodka Neat Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.30 22:23:00 - [7] For system that you are worried about getting ganked in cruise is better at least till they get some FoF torps Why are you still reading? Its over. Continue to the next post.
Blue Wraith	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:17:00 - [8] If you get that launcher cpu-reducing implant, then you don't have to waste a low slot with a co-processor, or sacrifice tank (providing you use a faction tank). However, I have used 7x t2 siege before, and I like cruise much better. Cruise do more damage against cruisers, and cruisers are the highest percentage of ships in most mishes. Until they unnerf t2 javs, I'm going to be using cruise, personally. I find them to be slower in certain cases, but faster on average. It's handy to have both trained, so what I would do if I were you was try both for a while and make up your own mind.
Ortegos Amarr VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.07.31 07:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Roy Gordon I use a mix of torps and cruise- 4 x Arb Torp and 2 x Arb Cruise. This gives good potential against the big and small rats. As to the question of range, I start firing at the rats at the range they appear, why wait until they get into their firing range eh? I use a similiar mixed setup and recommend it HIGHLY
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.31 08:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise Fit as many Sieges as you can and use small drones to take out jam/scram frigs. I run missions in low sec and so I don't like to use drones cause it give any probing piewat more chances of finding you. So I use t2 cruises, and swap to the precisions to take out the scamblers. And I have the option use the high damage crusies on the battleships. I do just over 600 unresisted damage with each one, so the battleships die quite quick. Also because cruises go faster they are less affected by defender missiles, but the ones that spam defenders are still a pain.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.31 11:21:00 - [11] Leandro, what I am probably doing wrong is not fitting my raven with a couple of billion worth of modules, and using a stock raven not a CNR. Skills are decent; AWU 5 is a representative sample. I have found that sniping is a much safer way of doing missions, and torps quite often run out of fuel before hitting if you open up at extreme lock range. The run back to the gate is not really a problem, because I do it while my alt is scooping up the loot and salvage. I suppose the only real way is to try it, but probably not in a tough one like Worlds Collide or Headhunters. BTW, any comments on torps for drone missions? And does a target painter help at all? ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.31 11:37:00 - [12] Sometimes the enemies are quite far away in missions, like 70km or something. In this case cruise missiles are FAR better, as they are faster. You don't waste so much of them after each ship, so your DPS is higher aswell (unless you know exactly which ship needs how many missiles and fire only this ammount, switching then to the next target). I think you can stick with cruise missiles, but don't use cruise II, the cap nerf is noth worth it, or ok maybe you meant cruise launchers II. It's nice to see when your missiles travel with 8.4 km/s instead of slow torpedos that are a bad against anything smaller than a battelcruiser. Drones are helpful but it takes them too long to chew through all that small stuff ... after all its only 5 medium drones, you should not depend on them too much.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.31 11:56:00 - [13] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 31/07/2007 12:00:11 Originally by: vanBuskirk BTW, any comments on torps for drone missions? And does a target painter help at all? Torps suck in drone missions. Tbh all missiles suck in drone missions because of so many small targets at fairly long distances. They are perfect for turret boats due to the drones slow speed though. My Abaddon clears drones MUCH faster than my CNR. Heck even a crap skilled Railthron worked great against drones for me in the past, though I think that was before their resists were changed to the current EM weakness. And missions where all enemies start at long range are kinda the same, much better to snipe them with turrets than to use missiles. For perfect mission running, it really pays off to diversify your skills rather than speccing. Actually it pays off in PvP too imho, but some people prefer a few percent extra damage in one race over being able to use all of them for some reason... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.31 12:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 31/07/2007 12:00:11 Originally by: vanBuskirk And missions where all enemies start at long range are kinda the same, much better to snipe them with turrets than to use missiles. For perfect mission running, it really pays off to diversify your skills rather than speccing. Actually it pays off in PvP too imho, but some people prefer a few percent extra damage in one race over being able to use all of them for some reason... If you cannot diversify your own skills, bring a friend. I am still becoming competent with my Megathron (I figure I'll actually be good in it in about five years), but there are some missions where it just does better than my friends' Ravens. Their ships are a lot better for most missions, especially the ones where you warp in and everything is at 30km. But on a mission like Mordus Headhunters or one of the drone missions, a sniping rail ship does very well. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Interval Grenadiers	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:53:00 - [15] I use torps all the way. I got lucky because I was given a Gist X-Type large booster so the fitting was made much easier. The range problem is very easily fixed. You can easily guess how many volleys to send and since the missions are repetitive your guesses will be spot on every time. For example. EOMs: 4,5,6 (from smallest BS to largest) Battlecruisers - 2 volleys Destroyers - 1 volley Plus, I just love the big explosions in space :)
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:39:00 - [16] Interesting comment about using guns where all the enemies are long range. I am best with hybrids on a Megathron, but have more experience with shield tanking - so decisions need to be made, as I don't own a Mega at the moment. Maybe it's time to grab a bpc. The guns wouldn't be cheap either, I suppose - as I can use t2 rails I suppose I ought to use them. About cruise II - yes, I meant launchers II. I never use t2 ammo in missions - as the idea is usually to make isk not spend it, and all t2 ammo has disadvantages. While I'm on the subject, has anyone any comments aout rail Rokh vs. railthron? Of course, Mega has a damage bonus, but Rokh has a range bonus to compensate (use higher damage ammo). My BS skills are not too far off the same for both. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:45:00 - [17] Originally by: vanBuskirk Interesting comment about using guns where all the enemies are long range. I am best with hybrids on a Megathron, but have more experience with shield tanking - so decisions need to be made, as I don't own a Mega at the moment. Maybe it's time to grab a bpc. The guns wouldn't be cheap either, I suppose - as I can use t2 rails I suppose I ought to use them. About cruise II - yes, I meant launchers II. I never use t2 ammo in missions - as the idea is usually to make isk not spend it, and all t2 ammo has disadvantages. While I'm on the subject, has anyone any comments aout rail Rokh vs. railthron? Of course, Mega has a damage bonus, but Rokh has a range bonus to compensate (use higher damage ammo). My BS skills are not too far off the same for both. Just use the Rokh... although it is more expensive than the Megathron. It's an age old discussion about which is the better ship. If you can already fly the Rokh, no point in training for the Megathron. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:37:00 - [18] Thanks Diomedes, but my Gallente BS skill is slightly higher than Caldari. I'm even thinking of using a blaster Rokh for missions; what sort of range can be got with long-range ammo? (iridium perhaps?) ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.01 20:16:00 - [19] I use cruise missiles, with proper skills they hurt. Caldari and proud
Aranelle Private Solutions	Posted - 2007.08.02 16:29:00 - [20] I haven't really ran into a problem fitting or using torpedoes on my raven. It tank's like a beast, actually I can get almost the same fitting on my Cruise Raven as my Torp Raven. 6x Arby Siege XL Booster 3 Hardeners II Shield Boost Amp Injector II 3 BCU II 1 PDS II 1 Capacitor Flux Coil II 3x CCC Rigs I know it's prolly a crap setup, but has been effective and survived
LMAAAOOOO	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:31:00 - [21] Edited by: LMAAAOOOO on 02/08/2007 20:31:43 I much prefer Siege II over Cruises, although, the problem is with cpu. A Dread Guristas co-processor gives 15.5% bonus to cpu, at the cost of around 25m, I think it's worth it, my setup : 6 siege II x-large SB II, 3 Rat specific hardeners II, 2 Named shield boost amp 3 BCS II, 1 PDS II, 1 dread co-pro 3 CCC rigs 15 Hobgoblins I have solo'd every mission i've come across yet If you have spare cpu, you can fit some small blasters/rails for frigates, although it is a tight fit. _______________________________________________ Originally by: murder one lmaaaoooo has made it into my sig.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:01:00 - [22] As someone who can do both seige and Cruise, I have to say for isk/hour, cruise wins. Why? With cruise, you can put in 3 BCU's, and still have a perma gist XL booster tank going. With all caldari Navy stuff, thats 700+dps and the ability to afk tank virtually all lvl4's. Torps only beat cruise when the enemy is 10-20km at most away from you. Remember guys - I am talking about ISK/Hour here. For 0.0 Ratting, torps is the way to go for isk/hour in my opinion though, simply because the enemy is a lot closer to you. -- Billion Isk Mission
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/08/2007 21:10:59 As someone who can do both seige and Cruise, I have to say for isk/hour, cruise wins. Why? With cruise, you can put in 3 BCU's, and still have a perma gist XL booster tank going. With all caldari Navy stuff, thats 700+dps and the ability to afk tank virtually all lvl4's. With torps, you have to throw away a midslot or two for painters and perhaps a low slot for CPU. Cruise, you need no painters. Torps only beat cruise when the enemy is 10-20km at most away from you. If you know what you are doing and pay attention, torps beat cruise even if the enemy is 60km away. Because despite greater numbers of cruisers and frigs, the majority of effective HP still lies in the BS in most missions. And one-volleying BCs is even more of a time-saver. And you don't need to permatank at all, I can tank everything fine with just a Gist B XL, 2 DG invuls and 1 spec hard. Of course if you just wanna afk run, cruise are your toy. But for interactive play and isk/time, torps+painter win most missions. No need to lose a low for CPU btw, CPU is saved by faction gear. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Slayton Ford Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:43:00 - [24] I've found there are times when you want cruise over torps. Angel mission BSs many times have smaller then normal sig radius so torp wont hit for full amount. The Bonus room of AE is another reason. You want to pop the 3 thermal cruise launchers asap as thats most the initial heavy DPS your taking. The travel time on the cruise does that a lot faster. Serpentis missions though, torps are better due to the BSs that sit at 50km and spam 2 defenders for each volley you fire. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer...

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