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Rakshasa Verr
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.12 07:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Like now.
Check out any of the graphs for the 4 useful mindlinks (all except info) The price has gotten out of control. A year ago mindlinks were around 8-15m a pop, the mining one being a bit more of course but they were fairly priced in my opinion.
Mindlinks come from only one source, a specific level 4 storyline mission with a small chance to give a mindlink as a reward. The evil Incarna expansion released lots of more level 4 storyline missions which has reduced the already small chance of getting a mindlink to extremely low levels. Thus the supply of mindlinks crashed making the price skyrocket. I have seen a mining mindlink go for 550m isk and most other mindlinks hovering at 90-110m, a price increase of around 10 times.
I do not think that CCP intended to make mindlinks as expensive as deadspace items when they released more storyline missions. Mindlinks have been reduced to off grid boosters in high sec instead of being put onto command ship/battlecruiser pod pilots that go off and die in glorious battle.
Now if I really had my way I'd also like a tech 1 mindlink with reduced effectiveness and less insane skill reqs, but that may be asking too much. Surely adding in 5 BPOs for mindlinks or an LP store item would be easy to implement and improve the game, right? |
Lucinda Hamu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.01.12 13:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
You state that it would improve the game. Why would it? What benefit would it have other than to make it more affordable to you? |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2691
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Posted - 2012.01.12 14:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cry more, deprived minebear
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2691
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Posted - 2012.01.12 14:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
To expand - why do you have this massive sense of entitlement that you should get these really quite advantageous implants at rock bottom prices? If so: X-type mods for everyone! (Yes, I know there are huge differences in obtaining mindlinks and X-types, but the point remains.)
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
315
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Posted - 2012.01.12 14:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
I consider 100m a fair price for a mindlink. You only really need a couple even for a full fleet. I'd start getting worried when they compare to pirate implants in price.
On the other hand, a cheaper, weaker, TI mindlink would be a nice addition to small gangs when you want to keep things expendable. |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.01.12 15:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
I dunno, I kind of like the price increase. I had several mining foreman mindlinks from 'back in the day' (alas, they were cheap enough that I gave some away, even...) and am debating whether to sell them or not :). I also have gotten the 'shipyard theft' storyline once recently - run a bunch of level 4 distribution missions from the agents in Bei/Uttindar. You will need a blockade runner, though, and not mind dodging the campers in low-sec. |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
177
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Posted - 2012.01.12 15:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:To expand - why do you have this massive sense of entitlement that you should get these really quite advantageous implants at rock bottom prices? If so: X-type mods for everyone! (Yes, I know there are huge differences in obtaining mindlinks and X-types, but the point remains.) You are trolling, but I'll bite because people might not notice.
Why? The OP already pointed out why. Because the current prices are a secondary result of changing storyline missions, not a specific change to mindlinks the increase the price, which has been reasonably priced in the past. If CCP wants to change the status quo, fine. However, its highly unlikely they do since they usually announce such changes (PI.is a good example) and as the OP stated well, the status quo should be restored.
But I'm sure you think we should 'cry more' right? (P.S. I already have several mindlinks) Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
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astara989
Push Mineral Extraction Push Interstellar Network
22
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Posted - 2012.01.12 16:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
550mill wont take long to pay for itself with the extra ore you mine. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2697
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Posted - 2012.01.13 19:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Bumblefck wrote:To expand - why do you have this massive sense of entitlement that you should get these really quite advantageous implants at rock bottom prices? If so: X-type mods for everyone! (Yes, I know there are huge differences in obtaining mindlinks and X-types, but the point remains.) You are trolling, but I'll bite because people might not notice. Why? The OP already pointed out why. Because the current prices are a secondary result of changing storyline missions, not a specific change to mindlinks the increase the price, which has been reasonably priced in the past. If CCP wants to change the status quo, fine. However, its highly unlikely they do since they usually announce such changes (PI.is a good example) and as the OP stated well, the status quo should be restored. But I'm sure you think we should 'cry more' right? (P.S. I already have several mindlinks)
Did they announce the change to loot tables that caused Y-T8 MWDs and all the rest to plummet in price?
Again...you're basically restating what the OP has said - that they are upset that the drop rate has effectively been nerfed, and that the price has risen as a result.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
177
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Posted - 2012.01.13 21:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:
Did they announce the change to loot tables that caused Y-T8 MWDs and all the rest to plummet in price?
Again...you're basically restating what the OP has said - that they are upset that the drop rate has effectively been nerfed, and that the price has risen as a result.
So what is your argument? You think they wanted to do this or they didn't, but it's awesome because you like it?
The first requires proof. The second isn't relevant to the OP. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2698
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Posted - 2012.01.14 13:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
No, I'm indifferent about it - all I'm saying is "So what if CCP nerfed the effective drop rate of these Mindlinks?" Does that really give anyone cause to complain about them (without appearing as if they are whining)?
By this logic, therefore, should we not all start complaining about how pricey Estamel's Invulns. are because the drop rate is particularly low?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Rakshasa Verr
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.15 07:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lucinda Hamu wrote:You state that it would improve the game. Why would it? What benefit would it have other than to make it more affordable to you?
Another item to manufacture instead of being left to the almighty level 4 mission runner luck system. A mindlink is a staple part of a gang focused BC/CS. They released T2 warfare links and they don't cost 100m a pop. Was releasing those bad for the game? I'll give you another example, stealth bomber bombs used to cost something ridiculous like 20m a piece, which made using bombers rather dumb so CCP changed it. Cheaper bombs has made them more useful and many interesting battles have taken place all for the improvement of EVE.
I fail to see how this makes mindlinks more affordable to me, it makes them more affordable to everyone. I have no problem with making pirate mindlinks and charging whatever for them but a staple T2 item for 100m? And I've gotten quite rich over selling my mindlinks for 100m a pop when I bought em for 8m tyvm.
Bumblefck wrote:Cry more, deprived minebear
I do not mine and I am not crying, I got rich over this change. I will answer your other attack: why should the item be cheap. Answer is because it is a tech 2 mod and a critical part to flying a BC/CS with a warfare link. What other part of a T2 BC/CS fit is 100m? I kinda answered this more above but really I just hate to see things go stagnant and unused in EVE. I like things to be used by everyone to their fullest potential and get destroyed and remade till the end of EVE. A few hangar decoration ships/items are fine but an item that is critical to the role bonus of BCs?
The skill reqs alone on a warfare link is enough to rarely see them. I'd rather have BCs be used to great effect in small-medium well organized gangs, not mainly used for an off grid pilot giving bonuses to high sec fleets. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
609
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 18:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
The issues are (why the prices have gone up):
- Less people grinding L4s, more people grinding incursions (or other income sources) - More storyline missions were added, which drove down how often that particular mission shows up
Personally, I would not mind seeing implants or BPCs to produce those implants added to the loot tables of exploration sites (magnet / radar). Seems like either magnet or radar sites are constantly being brought up as "lacking" in rewards.
A second source for items is always a good thing, especially if it is a luck-based system.
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Clementina
The Scope
49
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Posted - 2012.01.15 21:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quick Question, Are any implants manufacturable by players at this time? |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
184
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Posted - 2012.01.15 21:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Clementina wrote:Quick Question, Are any implants manufacturable by players at this time? Newp Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
609
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 21:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Clementina wrote:Quick Question, Are any implants manufacturable by players at this time?
It's been kicked around by the devs off and on over the years, but nothing seems to have ever come of it.
I could see it using some combination of a bit of moon goo, a bit of minerals, some salvage and some of the lesser-used PI goods. |
Clementina
The Scope
49
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Posted - 2012.01.15 23:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think we've found the problem then. CCP needs to come up with a way for players to manufacture implants (All of them, not just mindlinks). Let our industrialists have some fun. |
Praia
the muppets RED.OverLord
0
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Posted - 2012.02.04 19:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Seed them in the LP stores its the best option, i think, and then decide if it will be a expensive item or cheap one. The other implants are already there. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
13
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Clementina wrote:I think we've found the problem then. CCP needs to come up with a way for players to manufacture implants (All of them, not just mindlinks). Let our industrialists have some fun.
As far as production of implants & clones there will opportunities for us industrialists to manufacture those types of items for Dust 514 mercs. At least one line in that type of item has been added to EVE already although it cannot be produced yet.
As to the OP's original question I disagree and believe the status quo should remain as it is. I have never made any ISK personally from selling on mindlinks - infact I paid 395 mil ISK not long ago for the mining mindlink for another char. Too many high value equipment is too easy to acquire nowadays. Without any challenge within the game there is no point and we don't want everything as cheap as chips! With the current lovely high sec mineral prices you can easily make fifty million ISK in a few hours - just save up and go buy your chosen mindlink/s.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2777
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Posted - 2012.02.05 22:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rakshasa Verr wrote:Like now.
Check out any of the graphs for the 4 useful mindlinks (all except info) The price has gotten out of control. A year ago mindlinks were around 8-15m a pop, the mining one being a bit more of course but they were fairly priced in my opinion.
Mindlinks come from only one source, a specific level 4 storyline mission with a small chance to give a mindlink as a reward. The evil Incarna expansion released lots of more level 4 storyline missions which has reduced the already small chance of getting a mindlink to extremely low levels. Thus the supply of mindlinks crashed making the price skyrocket. I have seen a mining mindlink go for 550m isk and most other mindlinks hovering at 90-110m, a price increase of around 10 times.
I do not think that CCP intended to make mindlinks as expensive as deadspace items when they released more storyline missions. Mindlinks have been reduced to off grid boosters in high sec instead of being put onto command ship/battlecruiser pod pilots that go off and die in glorious battle.
Now if I really had my way I'd also like a tech 1 mindlink with reduced effectiveness and less insane skill reqs, but that may be asking too much. Surely adding in 5 BPOs for mindlinks or an LP store item would be easy to implement and improve the game, right?
Why should mindlinks be cheaper than an average +5% hardwiring? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Rakshasa Verr
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.02.06 04:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Why should mindlinks be cheaper than an average +5% hardwiring?
I feel like you haven't read the thread at all because I already answered this but I will go through it once again. Mindlinks take about 50-60 days more training than a 5% hardwiring and are T2 items that are essential to a specific ship module, gang warfare links. Mindlinks were not broken when they were much cheaper and the dramatic price increase was not intentional, it was a byproduct of the level 4 storyline mission change. Mindlinks also promote specialized groups and teammwork while your standard 5% hardwiring does not.
Mindlinks would fit into the LP store perfectly at the 3% hardwiring or +4 implant category price levels. |
Ryuce
27
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Posted - 2012.02.06 08:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rakshasa Verr wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Why should mindlinks be cheaper than an average +5% hardwiring?
I feel like you haven't read the thread at all because I already answered this but I will go through it once again. Mindlinks take about 50-60 days more training than a 5% hardwiring and are T2 items that are essential to a specific ship module, gang warfare links. Mindlinks were not broken when they were much cheaper and the dramatic price increase was not intentional, it was a byproduct of the level 4 storyline mission change. Mindlinks also promote specialized groups and teammwork while your standard 5% hardwiring does not. Mindlinks would fit into the LP store perfectly at the 3% hardwiring or +4 implant category price levels. While you make some decent arguments, establishing precedence like this would allow for people make valid complaints every time an expansion made drop changes or influence the marked in general. I wasn't please about the mindlink prices either, but the current prices aren't exactly huge, when considering that such a powerful moduls price is solely regulated by the marked, with no LP store etc. coming into play. |
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
142
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 09:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rakshasa Verr wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Why should mindlinks be cheaper than an average +5% hardwiring?
I feel like you haven't read the thread at all because I already answered this but I will go through it once again. Mindlinks take about 50-60 days more training than a 5% hardwiring and are T2 items that are essential to a specific ship module, gang warfare links. Mindlinks were not broken when they were much cheaper and the dramatic price increase was not intentional, it was a byproduct of the level 4 storyline mission change. Mindlinks also promote specialized groups and teammwork while your standard 5% hardwiring does not. Mindlinks would fit into the LP store perfectly at the 3% hardwiring or +4 implant category price levels. I absolutely agree.
Those implants are seen as more or less essential when flying a command ship or industrial command ship but especially the mining foreman mindlink costs a silly lot of ISK. Either seed them through the LP store like Rakshasa Verr suggested or let us produce them. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
672
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 15:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'd love to see BPCs for these implants that can be found through exploration. Don't put the implant in the loot table. Maybe add the BPCs to other rare faction rat spawns (Angels might drop the skirmish one, for instance).
So if you wanted to find that particular BPC you could:
- Buy it from an LP store (guaranteed) - Find it via exploration anywhere in EVE - Loot it off of a specific rat type (limited to a specific set of regions where that rat type spawns)
Three sources, three options for obtaining it.
Plus, if done as a BPC, you could setup the manufacturing step to require some of the lesser desired PI materials, boosting their demand slightly, making PI a bit more central to the economy, leading to PI being worth more as something to fight over with DUST.
(I'd also add some of the lesser desired T1 salvage to the list of materials, that way the implants would require inputs from at least two different material sources. Maybe even require some minerals and moon-sourced components.) |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2789
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Posted - 2012.02.06 16:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
I, too, would like to be able to produce HG Slave sets from tritanium and farts as they are essential to the operation of my Damnation
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Villore Accords
65
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Posted - 2012.02.09 01:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rakshasa Verr wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Why should mindlinks be cheaper than an average +5% hardwiring?
I feel like you haven't read the thread at all because I already answered this but I will go through it once again. Mindlinks take about 50-60 days more training than a 5% hardwiring and are T2 items that are essential to a specific ship module, gang warfare links. Mindlinks were not broken when they were much cheaper and the dramatic price increase was not intentional, it was a byproduct of the level 4 storyline mission change. Mindlinks also promote specialized groups and teammwork while your standard 5% hardwiring does not. Mindlinks would fit into the LP store perfectly at the 3% hardwiring or +4 implant category price levels.
Exactly this.
Current mindlink prices also are prohibitive to using actual command ships on the field.... kind of like CCP want them to be used.
[CCP made a post elsewhere on forum about reversing Command Ship and T3 gang boosts for exactly that reason, along with possible on grid only effects]
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FASTTRACKS0
Czerka. The Methodical Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.02.09 06:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
I concur, something should be done... 600-1bil is ridiculous... We should be able to produce the Mining Foreman Mindlink or they should make them more available either by the suggested LP stores or via storyline agents or special drops.
I've seen and heard so many stories about how just a couple years ago these things were 40mil. 8 months ago they were around 360-380mil now they are at average of 700mil with only about 50 on the market...
CCP please do something...
Lets make the Mining Foreman Mindlink more reasonable. |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
57
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Posted - 2012.02.09 11:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
I too want to be able to buy DS mods from LP store or manufacture them from tritanium, at its current cost of billions per module, its ridiculous. CCP do something! So people can start using them in PVP more and they can get blown up in gloriously in battles! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
309
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Posted - 2012.02.09 11:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
IIRC this price increase happened within a 4 day span about 18 months ago or so.
I had bought 5 of them for 98,000,000 and then noticed they sold for 150,000,000. Went back to Amarr for more and they were already 235,000,000. Literally within days. OBVIOUS manipulation spurred by the announcement of additional Storylines though. They hopped onto a price-hike, and it's never come down.
BUT they should be rather expensive. BTW, how come nobody complains about the price of the Michi Implant ?????
{{{{{{ sprays anti-Bumblefck Repellant }}}}} OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
149
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Posted - 2012.02.09 11:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
No one says that those implants should be build out of a handful of tritanium.
I think a price of 50 to 150 million ISK for any Mindlink would be okay. They are in demand but the supply is very short hence the prices skyrocket. They were not a problem before the storyline mission changes and it is very likely that the short supply of those implants wasn't intended by the devs. If that is true, there is a good chance they havn't even noticed and there are multiple ways to increase the supply. Some good ones were already mentioned. |
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