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Why not WoW type Battlegrounds in EvE?

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Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:04:00 - [1] After all, aren't those organized ship tournaments they hold in this game sort of the same thing? I admit I never took part in one or even watched one but it sounds suspiciously like a controlled PvP arena type setting to me.
Ampoliros Shadow Company FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:05:00 - [2] Originally by: Hasak Rain After all, aren't those organized ship tournaments they hold in this game sort of the same thing? I admit I never took part in one or even watched one but it sounds suspiciously like a controlled PvP arena type setting to me. Cause EVE != WoW, and we don't want their crummy-style PvP ------------------------------------ My statements are not those of my corp or of my alliance, nor anyone else I know. They are, in fact, solely mine and mine alone. Amazing!
Malicious Wraith Minmatar The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:05:00 - [3] Your asking to get flamed. This is a troll post and deserves a lock. Either that or the OP really doesent know what he is getting himself into. ----------------------------------------
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:06:00 - [4] I think players believe it will be just a grind like the WoW battlegrounds are, but it all depends on how ccp sets it up. Im convinced it could be made to work. Basically pvp missions with objectives. I think ccp wants people to go to 0.0 and live the alliance life to do that sort of stuff though, but there is so many things about 0.0 that make it unsuitable for casual players. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
DarthMopp Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:06:00 - [5] As the tournaments are events that happen from time to time which makes them special ! No need for some kind of Battlearena i guess. Just let EvE as it is right now...open ! "Alea iacta est"
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:06:00 - [6] Tournaments are once in a blue moon, and participation isn't spectacular either. Besides, I don't think it takes away from the rest of the game. Normal stuff probably goes on during the tournament too. --- Grismar.net
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Your asking to get flamed. This is a troll post and deserves a lock. Either that or the OP really doesent know what he is getting himself into. Wrong on both accounts. 1) I am not trolling. I am asking a question. I would say YOU are trolling though. 2) Yeah I know what i am getting myself into. Idiots like you are going to post something totally off topic or just say "WoW sucks" even though that wasn't the point? Sound about right?
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:09:00 - [8] The alliance tournaments are not like battlegrounds cause the winner of the alliance tournaments in known in advance.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:12:00 - [9] this is a troll post.... ....right? --- truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players" Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
Doctor Fruitloop	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:12:00 - [10] Being devils advocate here - since we do have consentual PvP in empire of a sort (eject some ammo and take thus doing the jetcan penalty) why not introduce this kind of thing to complement current PvP to get the newguys into the mechanics of it without losing too much? ie podded in lowsec when looking for first pvp.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Jim McGregor I think players believe it will be just a grind like the WoW battlegrounds are, but it all depends on how ccp sets it up. Im convinced it could be made to work. Basically pvp missions with objectives. I think ccp wants people to go to 0.0 and live the alliance life to do that sort of stuff though, but there is so many things about 0.0 that make it unsuitable for casual players. I agree that is probably CCP's view but there is a lot of evidence which contridicts it. Deadspace or Missions are in a way like "battlegrounds." They are instanced. The reason I started this thread wasn't to suggest that WoW BGs should be put in but I was wondering what makes them different from things which are in the game already? The population seems so against it too.
getmoving	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:18:00 - [12] firstly, unless your having a go a wow its realy not a good idea to mention that game on this forum, your just going to get wtfbbq owned. secondly, no never.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:20:00 - [13] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2007 13:20:27 Originally by: Hasak Rain The reason I started this thread wasn't to suggest that WoW BGs should be put in but I was wondering what makes them different from things which are in the game already? The population seems so against it too. Yeah. Well, Eve is designed to be a bit unfair and unorganized. I dont think players like the idea of even teams and objectives, simply because its not really in the spirit of Eve. Go to X, do Y... feels a bit too much like any other game out there. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Zak Kingsman A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:20:00 - [14] Fortunately for you there IS a battleground option in Eve. You click the log in button and it transports you to a n player BG where n is the number of people logged in!!
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Hasak Rain I agree that is probably CCP's view but there is a lot of evidence which contridicts it. Deadspace or Missions are in a way like "battlegrounds." They are instanced. No they are not instanced. Either you don't understand what an instance is or you don't understand the way missions and deadspace complexes work in EVE, either way you are wrong. As for battlegrounds, they are the worst kind of PVP implementation that I know of, they killed PVP in WoW (wich wasn't that great to beguin with), and wouldn't add anything to the PVP environment in EVE.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Zak Kingsman Fortunately for you there IS a battleground option in Eve. You click the log in button and it transports you to a n player BG where n is the number of people logged in!! QFT ------------------
Alrione Amarr Black Lagoon Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:26:00 - [17] This is joke right? Oh and IBTL --------------------------------
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:27:00 - [18] Originally by: getmoving firstly, unless your having a go a wow its realy not a good idea to mention that game on this forum, your just going to get wtfbbq owned. secondly, no never. If this thread lasts this long, stick around for a couple of pages and you will see that i rarely get ...how did you put it?.... "wtfbbq owned" on a forum. I can stoop down to anyone's level and then some. I understand what you are trying to say though. Just mentioning the word "WoW" will bring the idiots out of the woodwork. Thanks for your concern but I will be okay.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:29:00 - [19] Edited by: Hasak Rain on 03/08/2007 13:29:15 Originally by: PhantomVyper Originally by: Hasak Rain I agree that is probably CCP's view but there is a lot of evidence which contridicts it. Deadspace or Missions are in a way like "battlegrounds." They are instanced. No they are not instanced. Either you don't understand what an instance is or you don't understand the way missions and deadspace complexes work in EVE, either way you are wrong. As for battlegrounds, they are the worst kind of PVP implementation that I know of, they killed PVP in WoW (wich wasn't that great to beguin with), and wouldn't add anything to the PVP environment in EVE. Actually, PvP in WoW was an after thought. It was tacked on at the end of it's development. It didn't kill pvp in WoW because it never really existed in the first place.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:33:00 - [20] Tarren Mill zerging was actually great fun, much in the same sense as a death match in a first person shooter is fun. For a while. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:38:00 - [21] Edited by: Hasak Rain on 03/08/2007 13:40:02 Edited by: Hasak Rain on 03/08/2007 13:39:09 Originally by: Jim McGregor Tarren Mill zerging was actually great fun, much in the same sense as a death match in a first person shooter is fun. For a while. I admit I never played WoW and only read about their PvP on forums. The person who said that i don't understand exactly what an "instant BG" was also correct. However, i do know what a controlled PvP environment is and I do know that the WoW BGs are suppose to be exactly that. I also know EvE ALREADY has controlled pvp environments {touneys} in it so what is the difference? I am not trolling, i just would like to know why the player base is so against it considering they are already in the game in one form or another? Sorry for quoting you so many times Jim but you are the only one who seems capable of having a mature discussion about this.
Asestorian Minmatar Domination. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:43:00 - [22] The problem is that the foundations of EVE are laid on the non-consensual "world" PvP. If you add these controlled battleground everyone will just go into them, just like they did in WoW, and the world PvP stagnates and becomes boring. Want a fight? Just go to the BG. If that happens then EVE is dead. I don't feel there is a need for such a thing. --- ---
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:46:00 - [23] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2007 13:49:07 Originally by: Hasak Rain I also know EvE ALREADY has controlled pvp environments in it so what is the difference? What are you thinking of here? In Eve, you can get attacked anywhere and any number of opponents can join a fight somewhere in 0.0. If you die, you are out of action for quite a while and have sustained a real loss. In WoW, you have battlegrounds, which is a instanced playground where 10 vs 10 people (or similar) fight eachother, die and respawn until they get tired of it. There are no losses except time. Originally by: Hasak Rain Sorry for quoting you so many times Jim but you are the only one who seems capable of having a mature discussion about this. A lot of players hate WoW and battlegrounds since its all so meaningless, and they feel that Eve would become exactly as meaningless if we ever got the same thing. But I dont know, personally I think it could be made to work. Eve is very different to WoW in its game mechanics, so I doubt it would be meaningless. If you die in Eve, you are gone from the fight and lose your ship, gear and perhaps your implants. You dont respawn ready to fight. If I had to choose, I would like Eve pvp missions to be team oriented with objectives, but if you die or warp out, you cant get back in. Originally by: Asestorian The problem is that the foundations of EVE are laid on the non-consensual "world" PvP. If you add these controlled battleground everyone will just go into them, just like they did in WoW, and the world PvP stagnates and becomes boring. Yeah, this is a real risk actually. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Hasak Rain Edited by: Hasak Rain on 03/08/2007 13:40:02 Edited by: Hasak Rain on 03/08/2007 13:39:09 Originally by: Jim McGregor Tarren Mill zerging was actually great fun, much in the same sense as a death match in a first person shooter is fun. For a while. I admit I never played WoW and only read about their PvP on forums. The person who said that i don't understand exactly what an "instant BG" was also correct. However, i do know what a controlled PvP environment is and I do know that the WoW BGs are suppose to be exactly that. I also know EvE ALREADY has controlled pvp environments {touneys} in it so what is the difference? I am not trolling, i just would like to know why the player base is so against it considering they are already in the game in one form or another? Sorry for quoting you so many times Jim but you are the only one who seems capable of having a mature discussion about this. So you are really asking why something that you admit to know nothing about (PVP BGs in WoW), isn't implemented in EVE because there already is something you also know nothing about (Alliance Tournaments)? This thread is nothing more than flamebait and should be closed by a mod. Also, PVP in WoW (before the BGS), even beeing an afterthought was fun for short amounts of time, you had the already refered Tarren Mill zerg, faction capital invasions (and you really can't complain about EVE fleet battle lag after you've been in one of those), etc. It was pointless but it was kind of fun. BGs came and ruined all of that, everything PVP related turned into a grind, only instead of killing NPCs you where killing other players. Town raids completelly vanished and world PVP wen't down with it. So what you call trolls, are ppl who've probably experienced that in the flesh and who have no desire whatsoever to see that kind of thing in EVE.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Asestorian The problem is that the foundations of EVE are laid on the non-consensual "world" PvP. If you add these controlled battleground everyone will just go into them, just like they did in WoW, and the world PvP stagnates and becomes boring. Want a fight? Just go to the BG. If that happens then EVE is dead. I don't feel there is a need for such a thing. Don't we already have things which accomplish this "stagnation" though? People avoid PvP by carebearing. Mission running, Mining ect. Empire space and Concord also prevent combat. It could be argued that these "carebears" avoid PvP because of the fear of being outnumbered. A BG type situation might get these players to learn to like PvP if they feel like they aren't getting outnumbered or "ripped off" from their PvP experience. It could also be argued that EvE needs more places to fight. When 95% of the combat takes place at a gate, I think I am right about that.
Vorketh Mordanil Amarr Brotherhood of Acquisitions	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:50:00 - [26] There is yet another difference. Ships lost in these tournaments are not restored. People have brought rare reward ships and lost them forever in these tourneys. WoW PVP isn't gratifying simply because you both gain nothing but "honor" points, and you lose absolutely nothing but wear and tear durability. EVE PVP is about the fear of loss, and the joy of delivering such fear and loss unto others. Want a guaranteed fight? Go to 0.0 and hang out at a gate. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Vorketh Mordanil There is yet another difference. Ships lost in these tournaments are not restored. People have brought rare reward ships and lost them forever in these tourneys. WoW PVP isn't gratifying simply because you both gain nothing but "honor" points, and you lose absolutely nothing but wear and tear durability. EVE PVP is about the fear of loss, and the joy of delivering such fear and loss unto others. Want a guaranteed fight? Go to 0.0 and hang out at a gate. QFT --- Grismar.net
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Vorketh Mordanil There is yet another difference. Ships lost in these tournaments are not restored. People have brought rare reward ships and lost them forever in these tourneys. WoW PVP isn't gratifying simply because you both gain nothing but "honor" points, and you lose absolutely nothing but wear and tear durability. EVE PVP is about the fear of loss, and the joy of delivering such fear and loss unto others. Want a guaranteed fight? Go to 0.0 and hang out at a gate. So why can't ships in a BG not be restored as well? I never said it had to be risk free.
Khorian Gallente Excidium.	Posted - 2007.08.03 14:02:00 - [29] WoW pvp is meaningless, and Instances and Battlegrounds will never happen in EvE.
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.03 14:11:00 - [30] Edited by: Jennai on 03/08/2007 14:11:27 Originally by: Vorketh Mordanil There is yet another difference. Ships lost in these tournaments are not restored. People have brought rare reward ships and lost them forever in these tourneys. plus all the people who choose not to compete because they don't have billions to drop on a full set of snakes and officer gear that's probably all going to get blown up. Quote: WoW PVP isn't gratifying simply because you both gain nothing but "honor" points, and you lose absolutely nothing but wear and tear durability. EVE PVP is about the fear of loss, and the joy of delivering such fear and loss unto others. Want a guaranteed fight? Go to 0.0 and hang out at a gate. WOW world pvp was kinda like roaming 0.0 gangs in that you would gather your max level buddies, go gank in an enemy area until they noticed you and sent their own max level group after you, at which point you would either run away or kill them all and laugh. most of it was driven by new max level characters wanting to have their revenge for all the times they got ganked while trying to level. being repeatedly ganked sucked, but there were some pretty cool fights sometimes. then they put in the battlegrounds and turned pvp into a tedious and repetitive grind for loot, just like all the pve content.

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