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Blacktail
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:11:00 -
[31]
Hasak, if you really don't know, part of the reason people say you are trolling is because we just had 3 or 4 of the exact same thread roll through here like, yesterday.
I'll answer you with the same thing I posted in each of those threads:
"While I agree with the OP's sentiment, I wholeheartedly disagree with the implementation. One of the earlier posters had put it as a way for people to "have their cake and eat it too". I think that's a perfect way of describing it.
If anything, EVE needs more immersion, more interactivity, and more pull away from the safety and banality of empire space. The possibility of reward in the face of great risk should pull people away from empire, into low and zero security space. With an instanced battlefield available for empire-dwellers, where is the encouragement to spread out and populate lower security space?
It basically adds a barrier that chops EVE in half between people who want chaos and unpredictability, and people who want all the cards laid on the table before they risk their money.
I'd much rather have the chaotic EVE. Daring empire entrepeneurs should be constantly tempted by the luctrative rewards of lower security space. Pirates should be drawn in turn by the lucrative rewards those PVE'ers carry. Force more interaction, and the more negative, the better, I say! It should be a constant, unavoidable struggle between the two. And the greater the risk, the greater the reward.
As an afterthought: If PVE'ers can assemble a 5 man gang to fight in these supposed battlegrounds, why can't they take that 5 man gang and go to low or zero security. In my experience that's a great roaming gang size. Enough people to win 75% of the fights you'd get, and small enough to escape from the other 25%. What's stopping people from doing that other than fear of the unknown?"
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:17:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2007 14:18:16
 Originally by: Blacktail
What's stopping people from doing that other than fear of the unknown?"
This is basically it. The fear of the unknown stops a lot of people in the door. You can jump into 0.0 and get fragged, or you jump in and dont see anyone for 20 jumps. You simply dont know.
Also I think most fights are very uneven, so either you get a very easy fight or a fight you cant win. Its random. Maybe the most likely scenario is Hide and Seek for hours without anyone shooting a shot. And thats very boring.
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Andruw
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:23:00 -
[33]
because the array of tactics you can use in EvE is vastly, vastly smaller than a game like Guild Wars which is based on controlled, arena warfare (indeed it's the definition of it). An EvE Arena would be a frankly embarrasing slideshow of one dominant build after another.
The touraments you mention, you can tell who'll win in a few seconds of the things starting, they are basically glorious storyline events and happen very infrequently. On the other hand guild wars holds $100k events where us players duke it out and has many sponsor ship deals.
The only place EvE style PvP (loss based, survival of the blobbest, territorial, and most importantly of all, non-consensual) can happen is in the game for real where PvP has an actual function and an angle on things.
So yeah, there already is an eve arena, only it's very, very big.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Blacktail
Hasak, if you really don't know, part of the reason people say you are trolling is because we just had 3 or 4 of the exact same thread roll through here like, yesterday.
I'll answer you with the same thing I posted in each of those threads:
"While I agree with the OP's sentiment, I wholeheartedly disagree with the implementation. One of the earlier posters had put it as a way for people to "have their cake and eat it too". I think that's a perfect way of describing it.
If anything, EVE needs more immersion, more interactivity, and more pull away from the safety and banality of empire space. The possibility of reward in the face of great risk should pull people away from empire, into low and zero security space. With an instanced battlefield available for empire-dwellers, where is the encouragement to spread out and populate lower security space?
It basically adds a barrier that chops EVE in half between people who want chaos and unpredictability, and people who want all the cards laid on the table before they risk their money.
I'd much rather have the chaotic EVE. Daring empire entrepeneurs should be constantly tempted by the luctrative rewards of lower security space. Pirates should be drawn in turn by the lucrative rewards those PVE'ers carry. Force more interaction, and the more negative, the better, I say! It should be a constant, unavoidable struggle between the two. And the greater the risk, the greater the reward.
As an afterthought: If PVE'ers can assemble a 5 man gang to fight in these supposed battlegrounds, why can't they take that 5 man gang and go to low or zero security. In my experience that's a great roaming gang size. Enough people to win 75% of the fights you'd get, and small enough to escape from the other 25%. What's stopping people from doing that other than fear of the unknown?"
I am not saying you are wrong or disagree with your views. I was just throwing the question out there.
I also don't know what was posted yesterday or care. If people want to believe that I am trolling I could care less. As long as the mods know that I am not doing that.
I have seen quite a few posts on these boards in the past about how people don't want EvE to become like WoW and then the Tournaments popped into my head and I realized those seem similar to a WoW BG from what I heard of the latter's description. I just made this thread to ask you guys my question about it and find out what the difference is.
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Nigbale Amare
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:34:00 -
[35]
I really don't know the details of the discussion - but just wanted to tell this, cause i played wow a lot and i'd hate to see a mistake reenacted :
In wow - the battleground type of pvp is actually DISliked by the community and everywhere you can find a long thread about giving world pvp his rightful glamour.
Eve already has that good ol world pvp - there are no safe zones except in stations - why change that to a place where you can't run away when outgunned,outmaneouvered and (to pat those pvp e-peen egos out there) outskilled? It's natural to run as it is natural to gank and get ganked.
Honour is a self-imposed set of values, not an organic set of rules - on the contrary - when ganging up on a lesser threat is more efficient - people that strive for efficience will do that, regardless of other things.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:35:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2007 14:37:50
Originally by: Nigbale Amare
In wow - the battleground type of pvp is actually DISliked by the community and everywhere you can find a long thread about giving world pvp his rightful glamour.
I think its mostly disliked because its a meaningless grind. Imagine if you could die and lose your stuff in WoW. Then remove respawning from battlegrounds.
Not boring anymore but very dangerous (and profitable, since you would loot those epics from that warrior you just killed). 
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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SerialTurd
Ardent Industrial
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:45:00 -
[37]
For gods sack stop trying to make this game more like WoW. The entirity of eve is a battleground. We don't need special "zones" for pvp.
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Blacktail
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2007 14:37:50
Originally by: Nigbale Amare
In wow - the battleground type of pvp is actually DISliked by the community and everywhere you can find a long thread about giving world pvp his rightful glamour.
I think its mostly disliked because its a meaningless grind. Imagine if you could die and lose your stuff in WoW. Then remove respawning from battlegrounds.
Not boring anymore but very dangerous (and profitable, since you would loot those epics from that warrior you just killed).
Thus damaging PVP in its current iteration.
I don't see a counter to my assertion that it'll hurt EVE's current PVP form (which I, and many others, happen to enjoy) irreperably.
And as others have said, if you think it will be anything but a constant showcase of the latest dominant builds, you're misguided. The great thing about our current PVP system is that its unpredictability puts a damper on cookie-cutter gameplay. Even still, we hear complaints about how one setup is too prevelant and overpowered. What do you think will happen in BG's, which will embrace those setups?
This idea is completely counter to the spirit of EVE. I absolutely abhorr it.
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iLoveYour TastyNoobTears
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:52:00 -
[39]
'cause WoW's PvP sucks more **** than my sister.
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Zarin
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:52:00 -
[40]
Eve is player run, not lead you around by the hand and tell you what to do land. No one wants this, they either want to avoid PvP or only go into situations they know they can win. Because in Eve, you die, it costs. So... You want this kinda crap, go to the test server.
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IceWarriors
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Posted - 2007.08.03 15:43:00 -
[41]
Edited by: IceWarriors on 03/08/2007 15:43:15
I would enjoy a battleground. Trying to FIND this pvp that everyone speaks of is pretty time consuming (at least for me- yes even with playing with the map settings).
If there was something like an agent that teleports you to a region where everyone is PvP (no belts, no rats etc.), I would love it.
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Ed Anger
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Posted - 2007.08.03 15:46:00 -
[42]
if they find a way to have multiple servers loadbalance a 500 ship battle in one system these suggestions will be moot.
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Chenoa Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.03 15:48:00 -
[43]
WoW and any other game which caters for kids is worthless TRASH, kids are trying ruin every game. |
Andruw
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Posted - 2007.08.03 16:05:00 -
[44]
If you want Arena Combat play Guild Wars (why do people keep blabbering on about WoW PvP (term used losely)? I swear people talk about WoW more here than on the WoW forums themselves!) one game can't be everything all at once, it is not possible.
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Bklyn 1
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Posted - 2007.08.03 16:06:00 -
[45]
wow has pvp? it must be something very new. when i played wow you could kill people, but nothing happened, they just returned with all their stuff. you could also go to so called battlegrounds where you could spend more time doing the same with no real effect on anything.
seriously, you're trying to sit a square peg into a round hole. eve is nothing like wow and most players prefer it that way.
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K'reemy G'udness
Delicious
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Posted - 2007.08.03 16:11:00 -
[46]
*snip* Please do not impersonate moderators -TheDagda ([email protected])
Sincerely,
K'reemy
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Kyusoath Orillian
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.08.03 17:00:00 -
[47]
to the OP: quit eve now and go play wow.
___________/------------------------\_____________
'blizzard are nothing , they they are rich guys selling garbage to children, like pop music , they churn out unoriginal, basic junk and their audie |
Trypho
Minmatar
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.03 17:05:00 -
[48]
WOW has simmilar PVP to CounterStrike, as seen before in Tekken. In other words - PVP makes no sense in all of those three games. No one will take effort to be a winner, because losing has no consequence at all, you just respawn and try to zerg again.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.08.03 18:10:00 -
[49]
There are some good arguements that can be made for something like a training tournie for newb hi-sec dwellers to cut their teeth on with reduced risk.....
but I always have the same conclusion. This already exists today. Its called the test server. And tbh, id rather CCP take the time it would take to implement this on TQ, and fix other stuff instead.
Go try the test server out, and get to the fight club. everything costs 1 isk, theres areas for consensual pvp of whatever size you want, and free for all areas with only the ship sizes as the limitation.
Everytime I go there, after at most an hour Im done....there just isnt any point, people still smack talk for some reason, and do other stupid stuff. its like counter strike eve or something.
Originally by: Snuggly
It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Helios Nero
Imperium Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.03 18:12:00 -
[50]
While EVE tournaments might be similar to WoW BGs, they are not truly part of everyday gameplay. I see them more as community events. EVE has PvP around every corner, why would we need more?
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www.ithicorp.com |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.08.03 19:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
After all, aren't those organized ship tournaments they hold in this game sort of the same thing?
I admit I never took part in one or even watched one but it sounds suspiciously like a controlled PvP arena type setting to me.
Get out.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.03 19:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
Go try the test server out, and get to the fight club. everything costs 1 isk, theres areas for consensual pvp of whatever size you want, and free for all areas with only the ship sizes as the limitation.
Everytime I go there, after at most an hour Im done....there just isnt any point, people still smack talk for some reason, and do other stupid stuff. its like counter strike eve or something.
I dont want to repeat myself in two threads, so Ill try not too, but the reason the test server is meaningless is because you dont lose real assets.
What if you did? What if you could get a agent mission against other players? What if if there was objectives to complete? What if there was equal forces fighting eachother?
Far from boring, I believe. The test server doesnt show what pvp missions would be like, not by a long shot.
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Mr Li
Suicidal Mercenaries
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Posted - 2007.08.03 20:03:00 -
[53]
wait... then what is singularity for?
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.03 20:11:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2007 20:12:23
Originally by: Mr Li
wait... then what is singularity for?
Testing ship setups without real consequences. And "officially" for bug testing.
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.08.03 20:13:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Mr Li
wait... then what is singularity for?
Testing ship setups without real consequences.
I thought it was for testing new builds for CCP plus above?
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.03 20:22:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I dont want to repeat myself in two threads, so Ill try not too, but the reason the test server is meaningless is because you dont lose real assets.
If losing assets is what you want just go to the Konora gate in N-RAEL. 
 
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Schena
Tri Force
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.03 20:40:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Schena on 03/08/2007 20:41:32
Many players find that pvp in EVE is so much fun because of the real loss you get when or if you loose your ship, I can't explaing the feeling of killing and equall target and get away with 6% hull :D . I'm almost all carebear now, but mining in 0.0 wouldn't be as it is without its danger of gankers and such. And it would not be the same if my hulk could ressurect at the 'dead ship yard' everytime that its blown up, if I would get my HULK back everytime it gets popped (not that it ever happened yet :D) I wouldn't play this game. I played EVE as my first MMO but I was unimpressed with the options in this game at my first EVE attempt.
Then I played WOW, omg! I got killed by a NPC and had to pay these gold to repair my EQ becuase of the durability cost!? WTF, ppl where actually complaining about that in the forums.
Then I realised... I've felt the need of a real mmo with a touch( :D ) space and future feeling. So when I got this offer to renew my account at a discount price I decided to subscribe at eve for 3 months.
For the first time of my life, I was actually beeing afraid of be killed in a game, no save points, no resurection with full kit again. Another loyal EVE players was born.
The thought of "battlegrounds" or such is not what I want in EVE. There is some improvements that needs to be done in this game (maybe the biggest one is that the server needs to be online 23/7!? The server crashes needs to be fixed asap). The very thought of battlegrounds makes me feel sad and depressed. If the organized pvp crews decide that battlegrounds is more profitable in respect and trust, EVE is lost.
In my few months of EVE I have tried pirating, the joy of searching and finding a target that is possible for you to kill is, if not more, more fun that battleground in WoW could ever give. And I'm certain that CCP would never forfill this idea, because the very idea is to damn booring!
However, I like the tournaments.. Never participated or saw one, but the news of one always bring a smile to my face
My cat's name is mittens. |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.03 21:43:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Schena
YES!!!! Did a search on Jim McGregor and found his bio to fun, just as you would give a **** ***
I spent several minutes thinking about what you meant here... still dont get it. You like my bio? Its been nerfed to death now with the size limit. 
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Cregi
Intergalactic Technologies
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Posted - 2007.08.03 21:45:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
After all, aren't those organized ship tournaments they hold in this game sort of the same thing?
I admit I never took part in one or even watched one but it sounds suspiciously like a controlled PvP arena type setting to me.
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Insane Zane
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.03 22:31:00 -
[60]
will you please die
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