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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:14:00 - [1] - Quote GÇªvery OP, except that it dies very easily and doesn't do much damage against many targets. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:16:00 - [2] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: it kills everything before it dies and does more damage that any other subcap No. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:22:00 - [3] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: actually yes. Actually, no, because it dies if something sneezes at it, because it has all the normal Gallente weaknesses, and because it most definitely doesn't do the most damage of any subcap. Quote: and if u die u just use ur super fast speed and align time to warp. Yes wellGÇª that's the pod you're talking about (which doesn't have GÇ£super fast speedGÇ¥). It doesn't particularly affect the effectiveness of the Talos. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:30:00 - [4] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Actually no, the ship has the speed and agility of a HAC and the damage of a gank hype. GÇªso not even close to the most damaging of any subcap. Quote: It has the EHP of a HAC too You need to learn how to fit your HACs. Oh, and the reason things won't die is because you're using large blasters. They're very easy to avoid. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:34:00 - [5] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Come to Amamake and I'll show you the error of your ways. The Talos is... surprising. :) Not really. It does exactly what you expect it to doGÇª GÇªwhich is a far cry from what the OP thinks. Cyzlaki wrote: Talos large neutrons track better than a zealot's pulse lasers at the same goddamn range and with twice the DPS. Ok, you need to go back and have a look at how the tracking formula actually worksGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:40:00 - [6] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: No, it doesn't really do what I expected it to at first glance. Adjust your expectations then. It does what I thought it would do. vOv. Cyzlaki wrote: L2play L2math. What tracking speed does your pulse Zealot have? What tracking speed does your blaster Talos have? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:44:00 - [7] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: You seem to be saying exactly what I thought it would do, Tippia. I'm saying that the OP is severely overstating his case since he's saying things that simply aren't true (viz. tracking comparison, damage output). It's a good ship. It doesn't do what the OP claims. Cyzlaki wrote: You tell me and I'll tell you why you're wrong. No. You made the comparison; you provide the data. Can't provide the data? Well, toughGÇª there goes your claim. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 01:47:00 - [8] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: So you would say that a Talos would lose to a Cane right? Cane? Probably not. It's fat enough a target. edit: read that wrong first. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:04:00 - [9] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Talos: 0.105, 1300 Zealot: 0.09, 525 GÇªwhich means that the Zealot tracks 2.7+ù better. Again, go back and have a look at how the tracking formula actually works. Liang Nuren wrote: No, I actually expected Tippia to make that comment when discussing tracking. I assure you, however, that the Talos has no trouble killing frigates. Ok, colour me intrigued. Fit? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:06:00 - [10] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: LOL just outed yourself as a moron. I rest my case. I take it you don't understand why the Zealot has better tracking? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:09:00 - [11] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Ship A has 0.60 Ship B has 0.03 Which one has better tracking? Depends on the sig resolution of the respective guns. Do you want me to explain the tracking formula for you? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:15:00 - [12] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: AHAHAHA no. Ship A has the better tracking. I rest my case. No, because it still depends on the sig resolution of the respective guns. On those two numbers alone, the question cannot be answered. Again, do you want me to explain the tracking formula for you? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:27:00 - [13] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Do it, and then explain some ways in which a ship might mitigate having 400/125 worse tracking. :) Sure, but that's not what he's saying, now is it? He's simply comparing tracking speeds, which only tells half of the story. Cyzlaki wrote: Wow this guy's a bonehead. GÇªwho, unlike you, understands how tracking works. Do you want me to explain it to you? Or would you like to tone your attitude down a notch so you don't look like the complete idiot you are when someone else asks and I demonstrate why your numbers show the exact opposite of what your ignorant ass think they do? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:35:00 - [14] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: The game has changed bub The tracking formula hasn't, and it still makes that Zealot track 2.7+ù better than the Talos. Do you want me to explain to you why? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:42:00 - [15] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: No, but you could explain why theoretical knowledge is better than practical knowledge? It isn't, but that doesn't particularly matter. The problem is that this poor fellow is making incorrect claims due to his ignorance of the mechanic, and thinking himself greatly informed for doing so. I don't particularly care for being called a bonehead for understanding something he has undeniably no clue about. You know full well that his comparison is entirely inaccurate. You also know that I know how to mitigate for his error. It's a rather pointless distraction from the simple fact that he doesn't understand how tracking works and why his comparison fails. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4336	Posted - 2012.01.13 02:54:00 - [16] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Ok well I think we can both agree that I know how the math behind eve works, at least reasonably well. And I am telling you that the practical application is a bit closer to his assertions than yours. I'd dispute that because your practical application involves a factor that he seems quite oblivious to in his comparisonGÇª He may very well be able to make use of it in-game, but I am quite confident in saying that he doesn't know why. Quote: What I'm trying to point out is that both of you are making exactly the same argument from different perspectives. Not quite. He made a claim about tracking speed which is blatantly false. In practice, you can overcome the difference the reality of the situation creates, but that doesn't make his claim any less false. I'll grant you that it took a while to grep what you were alluding to, but he wasn't making anything even resembling that kind of argument. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4337	Posted - 2012.01.13 03:03:00 - [17] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Mad cuz you bad SoGÇª do you want me to tell you how tracking works, or do you prefer to remain ignorant? A simple GÇ£yesGÇ¥ is all that's needed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4337	Posted - 2012.01.13 03:37:00 - [18] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: This whole time you have assumed I do not know about signature radius and resolution GÇªbecause you demonstrated that you quite obviously don't, otherwise you wouldn't have made such an utterly moronic claim as saying the Zealot tracked worse than the Talos; calling me a moron when I corrected you; and GÇ£resting [your] caseGÇ¥ when I told you that it couldn't be determined by tracking numbers alone. By the way, in your example, ship B has the better tracking. Do you know why? Or do you want me to tell you how tracking works? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4339	Posted - 2012.01.13 03:41:00 - [19] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: You're wrong. Those stats don't matter unless you're trying to track tiny ships 100% of the time. No. They always matter when angular velocity is non-zero. Quote: Given a signature radius of a normal sized ship, the Talos tracks better.. The signature radius is not relevant for the comparison between turrets GÇö the Zealot (and ship B) track better. Do you want me to explain to you why? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4339	Posted - 2012.01.13 03:48:00 - [20] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Now leave the thread No. Not as long as you keep misinforming other posters about how tracking works. Whether you what to know why or not, the fact remains: the Zealot you described tracks 2.7+ù better than the Talos. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4339	Posted - 2012.01.13 03:58:00 - [21] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Your theoretical BS has no relevance outside of EFT GÇªwhich, funnily enough, makes it completely relevant to your incomplete EFT-based claim that the Talos track better just because it has a tracking speed of .105 compared to GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ .09 for the Zealot. You brought the EFT BS in and made a false claim because you didn't understand what the numbers meant. I'm correcting you. Live with it. The fact remains: the Zealot you described has 2.7+ù better tracking than the Talos you described. For the record, just so you have the actual numbers the next time you try to make a claim about which one is higher, your Talos tracks at .0002625 rad/s-+m; the Zealot tracks at .00072 rad/s-+m. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4339	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:14:00 - [22] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: I never mentioned EFT. You asked for data, I gave you the numbers from in-game. GÇªand made an EFT-warrior claim based on them: you compared numbers that are meaningless and incomparable on their own because they do not act alone. You reached a conclusion about which was the better number GÇö a conclusion that was incorrect because of this massive case of EFT-warrioring. Quote: what made you think your BS would fly here? The simple (and by you so so amply proven) fact that I know how tracking works and you don't. The fact remains: the Zealot tracks better, as does Ship B for a reason that you probably can't guess GÇö it is your claim to the contrary that is BS. If you ask nicely, I will show you why. ADMIRALPLANET DOMINATOR wrote: Hmm I wonder who's information is more credible? Tippia's theory might be all well and good, but it simply doesn't translate out there on the field. Simple: mine, because his information and his initial claim is of a theoretical nature and lack an important factor in that theory. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4341	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:19:00 - [23] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Yawn, call me when you fly a Talos. Ok. So do you want me to explain tracking to you and why the higher of your two numbers actually represents slower tracking? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4341	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:23:00 - [24] - Quote Mister Kwong wrote: Ah hell. I'll bite just so you two can stop bickering. Please explain to me Tippia and prettend I look as pretty as Czylaki :) The tracking formula is: Chance to hit = 0.5^[(angular_v/tracking +ù sig_res/sig_rad)-¦ + (max(0, range - optimal) / falloff)-¦] There are two parts to this, each indicated by its parenthesized group. The goal here is to get the CTH as close to 100% as possible. This is done by reducing both terms within the brackets to 0: 0.5^(0+0) = 1, so as a result, you want everything as low as possible. The second group is the part dealing with range GÇö it isn't particularly interesting here and simply calculates how far into falloff you are. The first one is more interesting since it's the actual tracking part of the formula, so let's look at that one more closely. angular_v/tracking +ù sig_res/sig_rad Note that, here too, we have two groups. One deals with the turret's tracking compared to the target's movement (angular velocity is pitted against tracking speed); the other deals with the turret's ability to track small targets (signature resolution is pitted against signature radius). Of the variables involved, two belong to the turret and two belong to the target. Since we're comparing the turrets, we normalise all target factors to 1. We can do this because the turret and the target are completely separate GÇö there are no interaction effects between the variables involved. This gives us a tracking portion that is 1/tracking +ù sigres/1 GÇö that's how well your turret tracks a target before we actually add the target itself to the equation. So what is the effective tracking of your turret? Well, let's move those factors around so we collect all the turret attributes together into one group that we can then compare against the target, once it is introduced: 1/tracking +ù sigres/1 = 1/tracking +ù sigres = 1/(tracking/sigres) And there we go: the effective tracking of a turret is, quite simply, tracking / sigres. The higher the sigres, the slower the gun effectively tracks. So if we have two guns that both track 1 rad/s, but where one has a sigres of 125 (i.e. it's a medium turret), whereas the other has a sigres of 400 (a large turret), the first one has an effective tracking of 1/125 = 0.008; the second one has an effective tracking of 1/400 = 0.0025. Even though both have the same number in the tracking speed field on their info sheets, the medium turret actually tracks 3.2+ù better due to the lower signature resolution. SoGÇª time to get back to the numbers provided: Talos: 0.105 rad/s, 400m sig res. Effective tracking .00026 rad/s-+m. Zealot: 0.09 rad/s, 125m sig res. Effective tracking .00072 rad/s-+m. The Zealot tracks ~2.7+ù better. Hell, let's look at those other numbers he then invented: Ship A has 0.60 Ship B has 0.03 Which one has better tracking? Answer: ship B, because by a curious coincidence, it uses small turrets (sigres 40m) for an effective tracking of .00075 rad/s-+m, whereas ship A uses XL turrets (sigres 1,000m) for an effective tracking of .00060 rad/s-+m. Cyzlaki wrote: I'm sure your 38 kills from several years ago provided you with a wealth of practical PVP knowledge, making you an authority on this topic. Actually, it's my third-grade maths from decades ago and many years of comparative methods experience that makes me an authority on the topic. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4340	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:32:00 - [25] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: How many ships have you killed with a Talos again? GÇªwhich is relevant to the theoretical claim you madeGÇª how, exactly? Just face it: your comparison of turret stats was wrong. You came to an incorrect conclusion because you didn't understand what you were doing. It's ok. You can still shoot people in your Talos. You just can't claim that it tracks better than a Zealot any more. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4340	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:35:00 - [26] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: I'm sure saying the Talos has bad tracking Good thing no-one is saying that, then. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4341	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:41:00 - [27] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: I made no theoretical claim. Yes you did: GÇ£Talos large neutrons track better than a zealot's medium pulse at the same goddamn range and with twice the DPS.GÇ¥ You then provided the theoretical numbers for those. The simple fact of it is that you were wrong. You can wave your wounded epeen around as much as you like and try to dismiss your error by introducing the (equally incorrect) red herring of my in-game activities GÇö it doesn't change this fact. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4342	Posted - 2012.01.13 04:57:00 - [28] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: No I provided the real numbers for those and if you take your little formula and ignore the irrelevant parts of it you will see that in the real world, the Talos has better tracking. No. In the ~~real~~ virtual world, the Zealot will still have better tracking because those GÇ£irrelevant partsGÇ¥ I (supposedly) ignore are not actually irrelevant, and I'm not ignoring them GÇö I'm normalising them to make it possible to compare two different turrets. That's why the numbers you provided are theoretical: because they ignore the full scope of what's going on. Alone, they mean nothing. On their own, they cannot be compared. It's when you add them in with the rest that the truth of the matter comes out: a higher number means nothing because it is then modified by other numbers GÇö in this case, it is reduced by a much higher number, and ends up being smaller than what you're comparing it to. You were wrong, but so what? Why are you taking it so hard? It happens. Just go GÇ£oh hey, yeah, I forgot about the size factor GÇö quite rightGÇªGÇ¥ and go on with your life knowing that the Talos has its own set of advantages. The Zealot tracks better for rather obvious reasons GÇö why is this such a sore point for you? DarkAegix wrote: Why is everyone arguing about tracking, anyway? Well, it started with his claim that large turrets tracked better than medium turrets, which I disputed, and then he got really really upset over this fact for some reasonGÇª vOv GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4342	Posted - 2012.01.13 05:06:00 - [29] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Now you will notice at first he reduced both the angular AND the sig res to one. GÇªbecasue we are not comparing the turrets against a ship, but against each other. To compare them against each other, we have to ensure that they're shooting the same target. Consequently, the variables decided by the target will be the same in both instances, at which point it doesn't matter what they are GÇö the result will be exactly the same Shooting a .5rad/s, 1050m sigrad target with both turrets will yield the same tracking difference as shooting a 2.5rad/s, 40m sigrad target with both turrets GÇö in each case, the target is the same; only the turret variables differ. Quote: Assuming the angular is 0 (straight line engagement) Just one problem: in this situation, the tracking no longer matters. Both turrets have perfect tracking and a 100% hit chance. It's a non-comparable situation because all turrets will yield the same result. Quote: Zealot: 0/0.09 x 125/1000 = 0.011 Talos: 0/0.10 x 400/1000 = 0.042 No. Zealot: 0/0.09 x 125/1000 = 0 Talos: 0/0.10 x 400/1000 = 0 And you will quickly see that Cyziaki yet again fails the most fundamental of maths and lies with numbers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4342	Posted - 2012.01.13 05:13:00 - [30] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: Aamrr wrote: Cyzlaki wrote: Zealot: 0/0.09 x 125/1000 = 0.011 Talos: 0/0.105 x 400/1000 = 0.042 Erm...How does zero divided and multiplied by anything manage to not be zero? If you want to do it that way. Talos = 0.4 Zealot = 0.125 Same result. Eh, no, because the first factor (0 / whatever) is then multiplied with the second, which still yields 0. Come on. Don't flake out of over something as simple as this. Just accept it: the Zealot has better tracking due to that lower sigres, but the Talos has other strengths in its favour. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4343	Posted - 2012.01.13 05:41:00 - [31] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: So in the end (apologies for the 0 borking the math) you see that saying the Zealot tracks a non-existent ship at 1.0 angular velocity better than a Talos is irrelevant and Tippia was lying. The point you keep missing is that, given the same values for the ship variables, the comparison between the turrets will look exactly the same, and will always come out with the same difference. The one exception is when angular_v is 0, at which point all turrets get a perfect tracking and a 100% hit chance (if the target is within optimal). This becomes our trivial (and information-free) case. We can run through your scenario with any non-zero angular_v and sigrad you like GÇö since the ship is constant, we might as well replace all its variables with 1:s because they are also constant. They don't matter. They don't affect the final result. The target has an angular_v of v; a sigrad of r. Turret 1 has a tracking of tGéü and a sigres of sGéü; turret 2 has a tracking of tGéé and a sigres of sGéé. The tracking formula for #1 is (v/tGéü +ù sGéü/r). The tracking formula for #2 is (v/tGéé +ù sGéé/r) We want to compare the two turrets GÇö we divide one with the other to get an effectiveness ratio: (v/tGéü +ù sGéü/r) / (v/tGéé +ù sGéé/r) Oh dearGÇª the same variables occur in the same position in both the dividend and the divisor GÇö those will cancel each other out (and their values won't matter in the end): (1/tGéü +ù sGéü) / (1/tGéé +ù sGéé) = tGéésGéü / tGéüsGéé. Do you see where the 1:s in our GÇ£non-existent shipGÇ¥ comes from? They come from it being the same ship being flown against both turrets, so when we compare the turrets, the factors derived from the ship cancel each other out and just become a bunch of 1:s GÇö the original numbers for the ship don't matter. All that matters is the tracking and sigres values of the turret. When creating an GÇ£effective trackingGÇ¥ number that we can use across all sizes of turrets to compare them against each other, we just have to look at those two values. In the hit formula, we want the quotient e/t to be as small as possible. If we want to follow a GÇ£bigger is betterGÇ¥ logic, we have to invert it and thus we get tracking/sigres as our number to be compared. Zealot: 0.09 rad/s / 125 m = 0.00072 rad/s-+m. Talos: 0.105 rad/s / 400 m = 0.00026 rad/s-+m. Liang Nuren wrote: Why are we still focusing on ~numbers~ when we should be talking about ~ships and modules~? Because if we want to understand the benefits of them, it's handy to actually understand why those benefits exists. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4343	Posted - 2012.01.13 05:44:00 - [32] - Quote Jesus Rambo wrote: Posting in a Tippia - Liang warthread. 10/10 would read again Would it get a higher number if we were warring against each other? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4343	Posted - 2012.01.13 05:45:00 - [33] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: It's incorrect so far as comparing a Zealot hitting nothing that exists in game at a 1.0 angular. See above why it doesn't matter whether it exists or not GÇö the result is the same regardless of the ship stats and (non-zero) angular velocity. It is always correct. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4343	Posted - 2012.01.13 05:49:00 - [34] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: As you will see if you consult my results with a non-zero angular, the Talos has better results when using real-game numbers and not arbitrary ones. No. It has a higher result, which is actually worse, due to how the chance-to-hit equation works. You want the terms in the CTH formula to be zero, or as close to as possible. As it happens, the Talos is worse by a factor of 2.7. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4344	Posted - 2012.01.13 06:01:00 - [35] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: No, the higher the tracking the better. GÇªbut you're not calculating the tracking in the formula you used. You're calculating a part of the chance-to-hit formula, which uses the inverse of tracking. With higher tracking, you arrive at a lower number. In your calculation, the Talos end up with a higher number because it has a lower effective tracking. Look at the formula you used again: angular velocity / tracking +ù signature resolution / signature radius. You want the whole thing to be as close to zero as possible GÇö that's why angular_v = 0 is so good: the whole thing automatically comes out as zero. Higher velocity is bad. Higher tracking is good. Higher signature resolution is bad. Higher signature radius is good. A higher number for the entire formula is bad. You ended up with a higher number for the Talos because of its higher signature resolution (a bad thing). The Zealot ended up with a lower number because of its lower signature resolution (a good thing). The Zealot's number as 2.7 times lower than the Talos' GÇö the Zealot effectively tracks 2.7+ù better. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4344	Posted - 2012.01.13 06:37:00 - [36] - Quote Jesus Rambo wrote: Of course, I also value my life. Pff. Weakling. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4354	Posted - 2012.01.13 16:42:00 - [37] - Quote Cyzlaki wrote: hurr the tracking is so bad hurr angular of 1 which never happens and signature radius of 1 which never happens durr You're the only one who has ever said that it has bad tracking, you knowGÇª If you still haven't understood what the 1 rad/sd-+m angular/radius comes from, it's because you still don't understand how tracking works (never mind understand how to compare things). If you haven't by now, you never will, so I suggest you just give up on numbers because they're just not your thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4354	Posted - 2012.01.13 17:41:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Just think about it, instead of having Cheerios in the morning you could treat yourself a delicious bowl of Blastos. Yummy! I this isn't available in the store at Fanfest, I will be very disappointed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4424	Posted - 2012.01.15 15:36:00 - [39] - Quote Patri Andari wrote: To call the Tippia a troll would be a misnomer. Yes, especially since I don't troll. I ask people questions about their presumptions, and some people apparently get horribly offended by not having their unfounded, contradictory, and just plain old false claims questioned. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4424	Posted - 2012.01.15 15:58:00 - [40] - Quote Biced wrote: so nerf tippia? Probably. I got a decent buff in Crucible, so it'll most likely be a nerf the next timeGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4450	Posted - 2012.01.18 22:01:00 - [41] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: In latest news, CCP is wanting to buff the Talos because it under performs compared to the Naga. Unsurprising. The Talos is not a large-fleet ship; the Naga (kind of) is. That tends to be their default point of comparison. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4452	Posted - 2012.01.18 23:41:00 - [42] - Quote It gets worse Liang GÇö it sounds like they're gong to nerf the Myrm by adding bandwidth and reducing turret count (much like how they're going to nerf the Drake). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.

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