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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.10 13:45:00 -
[1]
So we have
CPU = Tf (Teraflops) Powergrid usage Mw (Megawatts) And then power in the capacitor is stored in... what? units
Anybody know what the prime fiction says on this? -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? -------------------------------------- |

Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2007.08.10 13:47:00 -
[2]
Wiggly-Amps.....perhaps?
Bookmark Idea - My skills
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.10 13:51:00 -
[3]
Hrm, what is the scientific measure of the charge in a capacitor? According to Wikipedia, it may be a...Farad? Hrm. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |

Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2007.08.10 13:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tarminic Hrm, what is the scientific measure of the charge in a capacitor? According to Wikipedia, it may be a...Farad? Hrm.
Wiggly-Amps sounds better. But I could let Wiggly-Farads pass at a push.
Bookmark Idea - My skills
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.10 14:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Winterblink on 10/08/2007 14:01:53 Farads, yes. I would imagine the EVE ones are measured in some sickeningly large denomination of Farads since people use like 5F caps in car stereos so their brake lights don't dim with every beat of the music.
Also I had an instructor in college rig up a tiny cap (say the size of your thumbnail) to a power supply and had everyone move over to one side of the room. The thing blew crap everywhere when it popped, and was as loud as a low-caliber pistol.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.10 14:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 10/08/2007 14:01:53 Farads, yes. I would imagine the EVE ones are measured in some sickeningly large denomination of Farads since people use like 5F caps in car stereos so their brake lights don't dim with every beat of the music.
Also I had an instructor in college rig up a tiny cap (say the size of your thumbnail) to a power supply and had everyone move over to one side of the room. The thing blew crap everywhere when it popped, and was as loud as a low-caliber pistol.
Ah, the classic battery bomb. I've heard of people doing similar things with car batteries by attaching the positive and negative ends. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |

Entreri Finwe
Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.08.10 14:06:00 -
[7]
I'd say we should have it in Fluxes, such as 10 mega flux...
And we can rename the capacitor to Flux Capacitor... 
Originally by: jarack I de-synced in my bathroom once, now i have no where to wash my hands 
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Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2007.08.10 14:08:00 -
[8]
How about MF (megafarad)?
We're sorry, something happened.
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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.10 14:09:00 -
[9]
How about measuring in George Michaels ?
My dreadnought is a Phoenix and has the power capacity of 79,681 George Michaels. -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? -------------------------------------- |

Druadan
Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.08.10 14:50:00 -
[10]
needs more jiggafarads.
### I nearly finish carriers, and they nerf it. I nearly finish Amarr recons, and they make them useless. Vagabond pilots beware... I have bought Minmatar Cruiser. |
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2007.08.10 14:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lady Caeser How about measuring in George Michaels ?
My dreadnought is a Phoenix and has the power capacity of 79,681 George Michaels.
cant use G.M. units cause it would blow its load at the first sight of CONCORD
/signed for wiggly-farads (Wf)
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Kalazar
Amarr Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Originally by: Lady Caeser How about measuring in George Michaels ?
My dreadnought is a Phoenix and has the power capacity of 79,681 George Michaels.
cant use G.M. units cause it would blow its load at the first sight of CONCORD
/signed for wiggly-farads (Wf)
I'm all for Wiggly-terrafarads (WTf) to be honest. ----------------------------------------------
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Yipsilanti
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department

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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:04:00 -
[13]
Super-Wiggly-Amps?? ___
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tarminic Ah, the classic battery bomb. I've heard of people doing similar things with car batteries by attaching the positive and negative ends.
I knew a guy who wired up a .. oh a 1.5 mF cap, if I recall? ... wrongly, powered on his thing, turned around to get something from another work area, and the cap had blown through a 1/4" metal plate and went up through the suspended ceiling.
Was a good case for wearing eye protection. :)
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Skornik
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:19:00 -
[15]
Well - capacitors store energy. I expect the unit would be some big amount of Joules.
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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:22:00 -
[16]
I am also liking wiggly-farads
Taking into account Winterblink's story, ship explosions should be big enough to take off your face, and do some splash too :) -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? -------------------------------------- |

Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Skornik Well - capacitors store energy. I expect the unit would be some big amount of Joules.
Correct form of measuring energy is jiggawatts.
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defiler
Mad Hermit
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:29:00 -
[18]
Oomph!
Take the discothron, it needs to pump out a lot oomph to get that lasting oomph.
Oomph gives your ship oomph. Couldn't be simpler.
Mad Hermit corporation Minding our own business since 2004
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:31:00 -
[19]
I would like to pledge my support for the wiggly-farads. It should wing it's way in to the prime fiction at the earliest possible opportunity. --------
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Krezeb
Caldari Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:32:00 -
[20]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigawatt
wtf is a jiggawatt?
a watt that jiggles? a jiggaly watt?
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New Sig Pending.... |
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Cypherous
Minmatar Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lady Caeser I am also liking wiggly-farads
I vote we petition CCP to name the capacitor units as this ^^ ---------
Liberty Rogues Website
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:36:00 -
[22]
Isn't a farad a measure of capacitance, rather than capacitor? Much like resistance.
I think you'd be looking for either Joules (units of energy) or coulombs (units of charge).
Course, you could probably go a bit esoteric and use Kcal, which is also a measure of energy. Or KW/hrs for that matter.
Problem with Coulombs is that whilst they can be defined in terms of capacitance, you also need to know voltage. 1 Coulomb is defined in terms of 1 farads of capacitance, and volts.
1 coulomb being 1 farad x 1 volt. Actually, I seem to recall the definition of voltaeg might actually be 'joules per coulomb'.
Personally, I'd go with 'electron volts' simply beacause then you get impressive numbers. 1 eV is a unit of energy approximately equal to 1.6 E-19 joules (literally, the energy of an electron at a potential of 1 volt).
So you get to use peta, etta and other very large SI prefixes when you're quoting electron volts.
Of course, given your power core is rated in megawatts, megajoules might not be an unreasonable measurement either...
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Krezeb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigawatt
wtf is a jiggawatt?
a watt that jiggles? a jiggaly watt?

Oh my god, go watch Back to the Future. :)
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Fehz
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 10/08/2007 14:01:53 Farads, yes. I would imagine the EVE ones are measured in some sickeningly large denomination of Farads since people use like 5F caps in car stereos so their brake lights don't dim with every beat of the music.
Also I had an instructor in college rig up a tiny cap (say the size of your thumbnail) to a power supply and had everyone move over to one side of the room. The thing blew crap everywhere when it popped, and was as loud as a low-caliber pistol.
Yeah, our electronics teacher showed us that trick.. he regretted it ever since, cause we'd shoot crap at him from the back of the classroom.. 20 guys standing next to power supplies and electronic parts everywhere.. never caught who did it.. (all of us)
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Fehz Yeah, our electronics teacher showed us that trick.. he regretted it ever since, cause we'd shoot crap at him from the back of the classroom.. 20 guys standing next to power supplies and electronic parts everywhere.. never caught who did it.. (all of us)
Mine used to wire up charged caps to his desk drawer handles to catch people stealing his stapler.
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Grapez
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:59:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Grapez on 10/08/2007 16:02:15
Originally by: Skornik Well - capacitors store energy. I expect the unit would be some big amount of Joules.
This is correct. Farad is a measure of capacitance at a given voltage difference. The actual "energy" stroed in the capacitor's magnetic and electric fields is discharged as electrical current.
EDIT: It would probably be most correct to measure the capacitor size in Farads, as in a measure of the potential energy it can hold when full. If you're talking about the "yellow pizza" thing on the UI, then that would be representing current*voltage, I think. @º¬íí-T«+ºH for all your political humor needs |

Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.08.10 16:32:00 -
[27]
I too will throw my support behind the wiggly-farad.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |

Vodka Neat
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.10 16:42:00 -
[28]
If you are talking stored power then there is only one measure... Chuck Norris'. "Bob's Titan fleet equals about .5 Chuck Norris Units" Why are you still reading? Its over. Continue to the next post.
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Phil Miller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.10 16:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun Wiggly-Amps.....perhaps?
moron.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.10 16:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vodka Neat If you are talking stored power then there is only one measure... Chuck Norris'. "Bob's Titan fleet equals about .5 Chuck Norris Units"
They're not "Chuck Norris Units," they're JiggaFists.  ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
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Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2007.08.10 17:01:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Phil Miller
Originally by: Brutor Shaun Wiggly-Amps.....perhaps?
moron.
WTS : Sense of humour
Bookmark Idea - My skills
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Belloc Slunv
Amarr Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.10 17:08:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Belloc Slunv on 10/08/2007 17:13:31 Edited by: Belloc Slunv on 10/08/2007 17:09:35 I work on things with lots of capacitive circuits. And it seems that the value we are most concerned about is the voltage, as it denotes how many TCs the cap has charged.
EDIT: Oh, and for a fun experiment take 25 watt resistors and 20 .5 microfarad caps, charge the caps to 280vdc, leave the ps running and then discharge to ground through the resistors. Ceramics all over the place, and it sounds like a .22 going off.
Another EDIT: Thinking about it, it's tough to say what they should be called. Because we use voltage as a reference of where we stand in the charge/discharge...But a cap is 'fully' charged in 5 TCs. THe ammount of time in 1 TC is decided by how many farads the capacitor has, though. And honestly, if we measured in farads I'd have to say it'd probably be kilofarads we'd be measuring in, going off of the power consumption of other things, like pg, and cpu.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.10 17:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Grapez If you're talking about the "yellow pizza" thing on the UI, then that would be representing current*voltage, I think.
Current * voltage = power in watts.
That's no good, as it's not a time series measurement - 1 watt for a microsecond is still 1 watt. You'd need some kind of time dependancy for a measurement of energy storage. (e.g. watt-hours)
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Roz Akanit
Akanit Supplies
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Posted - 2007.08.10 18:14:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Roz Akanit on 10/08/2007 18:23:12 Edited by: Roz Akanit on 10/08/2007 18:18:44 The energy stored in a capacitor is Joules, and is calculated by 0.5 * C * V * V
I suspect that the magnitude of the Energy levels are simplified, purely because of the massive amount of energy required to operate some of the modules, relaying something like "8000 exa exa exa joules" would sound silly, and as such would just be reduced to show "8000".
/me remembers charging 4750¦F to 3850v (around 35000 Joules) and because of a failed experiment, having it discharge through a large resistor.
The resistor wasnt up to the job and consequently exploded... and my hearing cleared the next day. 
Dont remove ear defenders until everything is safe.  No word I can think of can explain the sound it made, I've never heard something so loud.
The test before that passed successfully at 10mS half sine pulse with a peak of 160,000 amps. \o/
Useless fact: 35000 joules is approx 8 calories. Which is about 1.5% of the energy in a cheeseless big mac.
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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.10 18:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Roz Akanit Useless fact: 35000 joules is approx 8 calories. Which is about 1.5% of the energy in a cheeseless ig mac.
WTB: Ship that runs on cheeseburgers -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? -------------------------------------- |

Skornik
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.08.10 20:24:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Roz Akanit
I suspect that the magnitude of the Energy levels are simplified, purely because of the massive amount of energy required to operate some of the modules, relaying something like "8000 exa exa exa joules" would sound silly, and as such would just be reduced to show "8000".
Let's hope it's not measured in foe!
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.10 22:16:00 -
[37]
One approach that no-one seems to have mentioned would be to consider the efficiency of afterburners & MWDs, which appear to operate against a frictional force proportional to a ship's velocity, whose magnitude can be worked out. For a ship moving (for simplicity) at maximum velocity, we can make an assumption about the MWD/AB efficiency and from that the amount of energy consumed per cycle can be derived. ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |

Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2007.08.10 22:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro One approach that no-one seems to have mentioned would be to consider the efficiency of afterburners & MWDs, which appear to operate against a frictional force proportional to a ship's velocity, whose magnitude can be worked out. For a ship moving (for simplicity) at maximum velocity, we can make an assumption about the MWD/AB efficiency and from that the amount of energy consumed per cycle can be derived.
Huh?
Bookmark Idea - My skills
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Aaron
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Posted - 2007.08.10 23:44:00 -
[39]
Forgive me if im wrong, but doesnt the Tf in the ships CPU value stand for Terra Functions?
so a 6tf CPU on a ship can handle 6 billion functions per seconds?
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William Walker
Amarr Interplanetary Mechanics
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Posted - 2007.08.10 23:47:00 -
[40]
Edited by: William Walker on 10/08/2007 23:47:34 Needs moar JIGGWATTS!!!!
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Roz Akanit
Akanit Supplies
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Posted - 2007.08.11 02:29:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Roz Akanit on 11/08/2007 02:29:47
Originally by: Lady Caeser
Originally by: Roz Akanit Useless fact: 35000 joules is approx 8 calories. Which is about 1.5% of the energy in a cheeseless big mac.
WTB: Ship that runs on cheeseburgers
Cheese burgers would have more energy, are you sure you could handle it? 
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Tibullus
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Posted - 2007.08.11 03:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Vodka Neat If you are talking stored power then there is only one measure... Chuck Norris'. "Bob's Titan fleet equals about .5 Chuck Norris Units"
Thread won. If there is any debate about the unit of capacitor, I vote that it should be measured relative to Chuck Norris. |

zibelthurdos
Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.11 04:37:00 -
[43]
this whole thread takes me back to high school electronics shop, our electronics instructor quit, and they decided to have the woodshop teacher sub for him.
that was a mistake, we charged up a bunch of picofarad capacitors and left them, along with a pile of resistors and other crap on his desk he came in, saw the pile, and very irate he scooped all of them up in one hand.
much laughs were had by (well almost) all ----------------------------------------------- I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum" |

Marux
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Posted - 2007.08.11 04:39:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Skornik Well - capacitors store energy. I expect the unit would be some big amount of Joules.
Correct form of measuring energy is jiggawatts.
QFT
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John Bishop
Caldari North Siders Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2007.08.11 05:01:00 -
[45]
my vote is to name in wigly tera ferads or WTF for short
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Rodj Blake Large Beam Spec 5 is a really good skill to have, because it almost puts you on a par with people using T1 projectiles. [:lol:
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Patricia Bateman
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Posted - 2007.08.11 05:38:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Originally by: Lady Caeser How about measuring in George Michaels ?
My dreadnought is a Phoenix and has the power capacity of 79,681 George Michaels.
cant use G.M. units cause it would blow its load at the first sight of CONCORD
/signed for wiggly-farads (Wf)
LOL <3
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Miraye Khoury
Gallente Condottieri Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.11 08:08:00 -
[47]
The Farad is the measurement of the "capacitance" of a capacitor; unique to each capacitor based on the permittivity of the dielectric, the area, and distance between the two plates that make it up. As such, "capacitance" does not change for a given plate, doesn't increase or decrease. The few smart fellows here looked at the capacitor as what it is, a storage of energy, or Joules. Given how much effort is needed to power such things as warp drives, turrets, advanced computer systems and what not, it's pretty much into the realm of Terrajoules here (many millions times more than the energy in a standard human diet).
This is just speculation, but if you had to create technology that could do all the marvels listed in the Scientific Articles here, then you'd be pretty strapped for energy...
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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.11 08:20:00 -
[48]
Some great ideas then.
But I'm guessing there is no prime fiction on this.
Joules are a measurement of energy, but this really doesn't answer the question because without scale it is meaningless, although some good guesses were made.
I will still have a mental image of 1000 slave workers piling cheese burgers into my capacitor like the coal powered trains of yesteryear, thanks for that. -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? -------------------------------------- |

Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.08.11 08:26:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
WTS : Sense of humour
So that's not one of the bits that is missing then?
And of course, the correct answer is either Ampere Hours or Megawatt Hours. Noobs, the lot of you. 
Or, of course, any of the other dozen or so other completely unrelated (well, unrelated apart from the fact that they all measure energy) units of energy measurement scientists have come up with in the last few hundred years.
And I can't believe someone didn't get the Back to the Future reference. 
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.11 08:37:00 -
[50]
I believe the correct answer is in this thread. According to the prime fiction that I just wrote. It is not just a capacitor, but infact a flux capacitor.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.08.11 08:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Aaron Forgive me if im wrong, but doesnt the Tf in the ships CPU value stand for Terra Functions?
so a 6tf CPU on a ship can handle 6 billion functions per seconds?
It'd be teraflops, with FLOPS being an abbreviation for floating point operations per second. See also teh wiki.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:18:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro One approach that no-one seems to have mentioned would be to consider the efficiency of afterburners & MWDs, which appear to operate against a frictional force proportional to a ship's velocity, whose magnitude can be worked out. For a ship moving (for simplicity) at maximum velocity, we can make an assumption about the MWD/AB efficiency and from that the amount of energy consumed per cycle can be derived.
Huh?
Ok, I'll now try actually applying this, since it does require a bit of work.
The equation of motion, in EVE, for a ship accelerating from rest is
V(t) = Vmax*(1-e^(-t/(AM)))
where A is a ship's modified agility and M is its modified mass divided by 10^6.
Compare this to the equation of motion of a particle falling from rest under Newtonian gravity, experiencing drag directly proportional to its speed:
V(t) = mg/b*(1-e^(-bt/m))
This corresponds to a force of magnitude mg-bv. In EVE, the mg part can be thought of as the thrust of the engine and the bv part is some sort of 'viscous resistance'.
We need to find b, so we equate the above to get b = 10^6/A. We're getting somewhere!
For this example, I'm going to choose a Crow with a 1mn Afterburner II. For simplicity, I'm ignoring skills & other effects (they can be allowed for later in terms of efficiency bonuses).
Without the afterburner, Vmax = 425m/s, A = 3.1 and m = 10^6. With the afterburner, Vmax = 425 * 1.35 * 1500000/(500000 + 1000000) = 573.75 and m = 1500000. A is unaffected.
Now consider the work being done over 1 metre at maximum velocity in each case. Without the afterburner, work done = force * distance = b * Vmax = 10^6/A * Vmax = 10^6/3.1 * 425 = 1.37*10^8 J
With the afterburner, the work being done is 1.85*10^8 J. So the afterburner is doing 4.79*10^7 J of useful work per metre. It has to use 22 'eve units' of energy every 10 seconds, so in one second (over 425m), it uses 2.2 eve units, and does 2.03*10^10 J of useful work.
Assuming that the efficiency of this afterburner is roughly 20% (feel free to come up with your own figure here), this implies that 1 eve unit is roughly 4.6*10^10 J, or 46 gigajoules. ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |

Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.11 11:35:00 -
[53]
Nice!
man you guys really love this game :)
me too ♥ -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? -------------------------------------- |

vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.11 12:28:00 -
[54]
Nice work, Kazuo.
I took this a bit further. The smallest laser in the game, other than the civvie one, is the dual light pulse, which uses 2.67 cap. Follow the logic and it works out to 29 tons of TNT per shot.
Personally, I think this may be quite a bit off; a starting point might be nuclear S fired by a 280mm howitzer. The reason is that there is (or was) a similar real-world weapon in the US Army inventory, with a yield of 15 kilotons. Using the unadjusted stats for 280mm and nuclear S gives the equivalent in explosive yield for an EVE unit of damage, which is 357 tons of TNT.
Right. 357 tons of TNT per unit of damage. Take a slightly silly example - a typical Drake probably has 10k shield at 50% explosive resistance, and nuclear ammo is mostly explosive. So it can take 20,000 units of damage before going down, which is 7.14 MT.
Yes, your average battlecruiser can take a strategic nuke without any damage getting through to the actual hull - and repair that in maybe 3 minutes. Impressive, eh?
I'll leave you with a thought. The declared power output in a ship's stats is probably a small fraction of the total, as most of the power is presumably used for main engines, life support and cap recharge. Maybe someone can work out the amount of power represented by cap recharge for a typical ship?
---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:12:00 -
[55]
One point I missed- the afterburner computation puts a lower bound on the value of 1 eve-unit of energy. If it was 100% efficient, the corresponding value would be 9.2 gigajoules.
Given that it is possible to double the effect of an afterburner with skills & implants (and to double the base speed of a ship with other effects), I'd say that my guess of 20% was probably about right, though a lower figure could also work.
------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |

Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:33:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Aaron Forgive me if im wrong, but doesnt the Tf in the ships CPU value stand for Terra Functions?
so a 6tf CPU on a ship can handle 6 billion functions per seconds?
It'd be teraflops, with FLOPS being an abbreviation for floating point operations per second. See also teh wiki.
Correct. Also note that it would be trillions, not billions, of floating-point operations per second.
In other news, the computers in Eve are not all that impressive, compared to the power-generation facilities. The power output of an Eve cruiser is roughly equivalent to a nuclear power plant; the power output on an Eve capital ship is off the charts. Meanwhile, the CPU onboard an Amarr Titan is something that is outclassed by currently-available supercomputers.
In other words, the power facilities onboard an Eve ship are from 2,100 or beyond. The CPU, on the other hand, is either very, very small (not much point, given the volume and mass of these ships), or is from around 2,020 or so.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:39:00 -
[57]
American trillion or British billion  ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |

Tiger313
313th Squadron
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Posted - 2007.08.11 13:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Skornik Well - capacitors store energy. I expect the unit would be some big amount of Joules.
I agree with Skornik. The capacitance only changes when either the size of the plates, the matter or the distance between the plates is changed. This doesn't have anything to do with depleting and/or recharging the capacitor. It's the amount of energy you store in the capacitor that matters, which indeed is measured in Joules.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.11 14:31:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 10/08/2007 14:01:53 Farads, yes. I would imagine the EVE ones are measured in some sickeningly large denomination of Farads since people use like 5F caps in car stereos so their brake lights don't dim with every beat of the music.
Also I had an instructor in college rig up a tiny cap (say the size of your thumbnail) to a power supply and had everyone move over to one side of the room. The thing blew crap everywhere when it popped, and was as loud as a low-caliber pistol.
5F is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE -=-=-
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Bozl1n
Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.08.11 22:08:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Bozl1n on 11/08/2007 22:09:35
Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 10/08/2007 14:01:53 Farads, yes. I would imagine the EVE ones are measured in some sickeningly large denomination of Farads since people use like 5F caps in car stereos so their brake lights don't dim with every beat of the music.
Also I had an instructor in college rig up a tiny cap (say the size of your thumbnail) to a power supply and had everyone move over to one side of the room. The thing blew crap everywhere when it popped, and was as loud as a low-caliber pistol.
Yea thats what happens when u wire them backwards.
I ust install ICE for a living still makes me nervous pre chargeing power caps, id hate to see how big a bang a 5 fared cap made, the 1 ur ibstructer blew up was likly to be a thousand of a fared or sommin small.
Sig returned after a victory with the appeal \o/ ;)~ |
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Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2007.08.12 07:30:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro One approach that no-one seems to have mentioned would be to consider the efficiency of afterburners & MWDs, which appear to operate against a frictional force proportional to a ship's velocity, whose magnitude can be worked out. For a ship moving (for simplicity) at maximum velocity, we can make an assumption about the MWD/AB efficiency and from that the amount of energy consumed per cycle can be derived.
Huh?
Ok, I'll now try actually applying this, since it does require a bit of work.
The equation of motion, in EVE, for a ship accelerating from rest is
V(t) = Vmax*(1-e^(-t/(AM)))
where A is a ship's modified agility and M is its modified mass divided by 10^6.
Compare this to the equation of motion of a particle falling from rest under Newtonian gravity, experiencing drag directly proportional to its speed:
V(t) = mg/b*(1-e^(-bt/m))
This corresponds to a force of magnitude mg-bv. In EVE, the mg part can be thought of as the thrust of the engine and the bv part is some sort of 'viscous resistance'.
We need to find b, so we equate the above to get b = 10^6/A. We're getting somewhere!
For this example, I'm going to choose a Crow with a 1mn Afterburner II. For simplicity, I'm ignoring skills & other effects (they can be allowed for later in terms of efficiency bonuses).
Without the afterburner, Vmax = 425m/s, A = 3.1 and m = 10^6. With the afterburner, Vmax = 425 * 1.35 * 1500000/(500000 + 1000000) = 573.75 and m = 1500000. A is unaffected.
Now consider the work being done over 1 metre at maximum velocity in each case. Without the afterburner, work done = force * distance = b * Vmax = 10^6/A * Vmax = 10^6/3.1 * 425 = 1.37*10^8 J
With the afterburner, the work being done is 1.85*10^8 J. So the afterburner is doing 4.79*10^7 J of useful work per metre. It has to use 22 'eve units' of energy every 10 seconds, so in one second (over 425m), it uses 2.2 eve units, and does 2.03*10^10 J of useful work.
Assuming that the efficiency of this afterburner is roughly 20% (feel free to come up with your own figure here), this implies that 1 eve unit is roughly 4.6*10^10 J, or 46 gigajoules.
Oh, I see now. Why didn't you say that the first time? 
Bookmark Idea - My skills
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Zorinna
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Posted - 2007.08.12 10:28:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Lady Caeser How about measuring in George Michaels ?
My dreadnought is a Phoenix and has the power capacity of 79,681 George Michaels.
the correct term for "George Michaels" would be "Homofagatrons"
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Zorinna
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Posted - 2007.08.12 10:36:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Pilk
In other news, the computers in Eve are not all that impressive, compared to the power-generation facilities.
--P
Which explains why Eve Target tracking and intercept (for both projectile and missiles) sucks as badly as it does even at what would be considered "POINT BLANK" Ranges for Space Based Warfare... Can someone teach CCP how to spell target prediction? anyone??
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Arron S
Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.12 11:15:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Arron S on 12/08/2007 11:14:43 Volts maybe??
A Video arcade monitor can hold around 15,000 to 25,000 volts
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Stitcher
Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.12 11:16:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Stitcher on 12/08/2007 11:15:51 Tera-Farads, most likely.... - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.12 19:26:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 10/08/2007 14:01:53 Farads, yes. I would imagine the EVE ones are measured in some sickeningly large denomination of Farads since people use like 5F caps in car stereos so their brake lights don't dim with every beat of the music.
Also I had an instructor in college rig up a tiny cap (say the size of your thumbnail) to a power supply and had everyone move over to one side of the room. The thing blew crap everywhere when it popped, and was as loud as a low-caliber pistol.
5F is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE
Agreed, I once had the job of handling some very very large electronic equipment.
They had capacitors which I think were measured in the millifarads... and were 30cm wide, 15cm deep, and 60cm high. And they hooked up dozens of them to each other and ran them at 30,000 volts.
The resistors were about 75cm long and 15cm wide, and were filled with liquid.
These were used to power X-ray pulse generators that were used to simulate nuclear bombs.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |

Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.12 19:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Arron S Edited by: Arron S on 12/08/2007 11:14:43 Volts maybe??
A Video arcade monitor can hold around 15,000 to 25,000 volts
The dialectric field strength of air is around 30 kV/cm. So if you've ever made an inch-long spark from static electricity, you were dealing with (ballpark) 75,000 Volts.
Voltage is just a measurement of difference of potential. It implies absolutely nothing about the force behind that difference.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |

Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.12 19:29:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Lady Caeser So we have
CPU = Tf (Teraflops) Powergrid usage Mw (Megawatts) And then power in the capacitor is stored in... what? units
Anybody know what the prime fiction says on this?
Capacitors store energy, which always has the unit of "Joules".
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |

Maaku
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Posted - 2007.08.12 20:11:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro As for the peak output of a typical ship's capacitor, this is roughly 2.4*cap size/cap recharge time iirc. So for a Raven (without skills etc), this would be 11 units per second, or about 500 Gigawatts; this is equivalent to the *electrical* output of about 300 nuclear power stations.
Total world electrical power consumption
Since I don't know how the terms map, I'll just ask: Given those numbers, how many Ravens, assuming that they were wired into the powergrid, would supply Earth's electrical usage demand?
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Spenz
Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.08.12 20:14:00 -
[70]
OMG Macro powerplants!
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.12 20:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun Wiggly-Amps.....perhaps?
I'd say use bits instead 
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |

vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.17 18:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Maaku
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro As for the peak output of a typical ship's capacitor, this is roughly 2.4*cap size/cap recharge time iirc. So for a Raven (without skills etc), this would be 11 units per second, or about 500 Gigawatts; this is equivalent to the *electrical* output of about 300 nuclear power stations.
Total world electrical power consumption
Since I don't know how the terms map, I'll just ask: Given those numbers, how many Ravens, assuming that they were wired into the powergrid, would supply Earth's electrical usage demand?
The figures are given in billion kWh/year. Given that 1 year is about 8770 hours, this means that unit is equivalent to 114MW.
Let's use the 2010 figures; given figure is approx 16400, which is 18640MW (18 gigawatts). This figure seems a little low to me, but let's go with it. You always have to allow for power demand peaks, so double it: 37280MW. A Raven with no engineering skill (yeah right!) has a PG of 9500MW, so the answer is; four. This is ignoring the fact that any ship must have more power than the stated amount, to run such things as the engines.
Yes, four. A typical tier 2 BS supplies power equivalent to a quarter of an entire planet's demand. Dreads? Let's not go there.
---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Azure Skyclad
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.15 18:53:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 15/10/2007 18:53:43 I don't know if PF mentions anywhere about how the energy is stored. Electrical capacitance is not the only method of storing energy though. Ships may well be packing some of these. Homopolar Generators
One possible alternative at least.
Edit:grammar
http://ultravixen.co.uk/ |

YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.15 19:12:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Azure Skyclad Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 15/10/2007 18:53:43 I don't know if PF mentions anywhere about how the energy is stored. Electrical capacitance is not the only method of storing energy though. Ships may well be packing some of these. Homopolar Generators
One possible alternative at least.
Edit:grammar
Nah, the currently most efficient technology to store the amounts of energy needed for high energy weapon discharges such as blasters, railguns or lasers would be compulsators. The US-Navy powers their experimental railguns with them too.
Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |

Sylvia Lafayette
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:36:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lady Caeser
Originally by: Roz Akanit Useless fact: 35000 joules is approx 8 calories. Which is about 1.5% of the energy in a cheeseless ig mac.
WTB: Ship that runs on cheeseburgers
WTB DRONES THAT DO THAT TOO!
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