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RyGy
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Posted - 2007.08.15 05:01:00 -
[1]
Ive always thought the concept of a weapon built into the structure of a ship to be interesting (I got into space sci fi with Homeworld, Ion Frigs ftw) and was wondering if there was some way to implement them in EVE. Heres a few ideas.
A new type of hardpoint called a "Superstructure Hardpoint" that would allow new, capital-sized weapons to be fitted. These hardpoints would be found on a new set of tier4 cruisers each with only a single high slot. Basiacally, each race gets a new cruiser specifically designed to mount a massive gun that essentially takes up the majority of the ships hull. These would do damage on par with a capital weapon (or possibly some level between large and capitol), but the catch is, they arent turreted. The entire body of the ship has to be moved to aim, meaning it is only really effective against large, slow moving ships at moderate to long ranges.
These ships would be cruisers in every other sense - same price range (though the weapons and ammo would probably be a bit more expensive), same armor, same speed. They would be very vulnerable to and same ship class size or smaller would eat them up. But these, in turn, would be the bane of every capitol ship out there. Faster smaller ships such as cruisers and frigates would be needed to take them out.
This would give a cheaper, less skill intensive, method for bringing heavy firepower at the cost of higher manpower and increased vulnerability to smaller ships.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.08.15 05:56:00 -
[2]
Pretty much a giant flying gun?
Not a bad idea, bit of a Goonswarm dream come true though. But I like it, it has a (presently unfilled) role, it has a definite drawback (normal ships eat it alive), and it makes a cheap, effective cap ship killer on strafing runs. However, if that capital has a good support fleet, the sniper BS and anti-support cruisers tear it a new one. Remains vulnerable to Carrier's fighters and drones, but that's probably a good thing.
Might become the new POS-basher of choice, which is not what we want though.
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ICE Blueprint Sales |
Teldar Orion
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Posted - 2007.08.16 01:13:00 -
[3]
The poor Amarr version, dumping all of its cap into 1 shot.
Anywho, I like this idea, but only if they have sub-par slots for a cruiser. They would be tech 2 I assume?
Downsides - the perfect sniper ship. Few would want to use BS for fear of being insta-poped. And miners, oh god man, think of the miners! "Eat this Mr barge!"
They would make POS attack and defence much more.. hectic, thats for sure. Imagine several Dreds attacking a bubble, while several defenders in these cruisers spit dread-sized ammo right back at em :)
lower cost, cheaper to build. Hmm.
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RyGy
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Posted - 2007.08.16 03:00:00 -
[4]
Edited by: RyGy on 16/08/2007 02:59:55
The original concept is for tech1 cruisers that require level 4 racial cruisers skills. While the ships themselves wouldn't be too hard to train for, the weapons would still require some high level skills. Another thing to consider is the size of ammo. While obviously the Amarr wouldn't have to worry about ammo, the other weapons would have essentially a 1 shot capacity, with their reload time determining their refire rate. And of course, significant cap use for the giant laser beam.
Maybe if I see a few more positive/constructive responses, I'll try to come up with some more detailed info on the ships for each race as well as the weapons, though if someone else wants to be my guest. As of right now this is just a general concept.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.16 06:32:00 -
[5]
What you are suggestin is the concept of "spinal weapons", weapons integralm to a ship and build around the main axis of the ship (or to better put it the whole ship is build around the weapon  ). It is widely used in SF novels and tabletop games.
It is very interesting and would be nice to integrate it in EVE. Today the only ships with something similar are the Domsday Devices of the titans, but those are AOE weapons with 360¦ coverage.
In SF the typical spinal weapons are in 2 models: single target very powerful weapon with a medium activation time and area effect weapon with a limited frontal firing arc (between 15¦ and 45¦) high damage and long activation time.
Both models have usually a very limited to inexistant tracking (firing only forward from the ship), range is very variable.
To introduce the first model (single target) in EVE seem hard, as it will require manual aiming.
The second, forward firing AOE weapon, seem more interesting.
To make it similar to what is depicted in the SF novels and to avoid (as someone pointed) the problem of depleting all the cap of the ship in a single shot, the best option seem to make it use fuel.
To activate it you power up the weapon, that start consuming power and loading a separate capacitor. When it is ready (at least 10 second, better more) the capacitor change color and you have a limited period to fire the weapon (10-20 seconds). If you keep the charge for longer period your ship start getting damage (heat seem a perfect solution here).
While range/damage can be a issue the best solution seem something with a range equivalent to the unmodified range of a long range gun for a ship of that class, for example for a cruiser 24 km, the base range of a 250 mm rail, with an fall off of the same lenght. If the weapon as a wide angle (45¦) the range should be shorter and falloff more pronunced.
After firing the weapon will require a cool down period.
An additional feature can be the loss of all the target lock in the area of effect (powerful electromagnetic wave), both from withing the area to the targets out of the area and from outside the area to the targets in it. That will give surviving targets a chance to escape/react.
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
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Posted - 2007.08.16 07:12:00 -
[6]
that would need new ship models.
Imagine how you would integrate a spinal weapon into the Moa or Blackbird. However Gallente ships would be full of it ...
 Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2007.08.16 07:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 16/08/2007 07:34:24
I like the idea, but the implementation is easier than you think.
You dont have to make a "superstructure hardpoint". You can just make cruisers (or other ships) with low amount of slots and one hi slots for the weapon, practically zero cargo hold, slow speed, give this ship a reduction bonus on pgrid use of capital weapons (and cap reduction bonus for amarr ones).
Quote:
The entire body of the ship has to be moved to aim, meaning it is only really effective against large, slow moving ships at moderate to long ranges.
I think that isnt necessary because of the sig resolution and tracking of this weapons although I would not make a capital missile carrying one for the caldari but hybrid instead.
with this new cruisers or whatever class ships, taking dedicated tracking disruptors/target painters ships would make much more sense then.
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joshmorris
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Posted - 2007.08.16 10:54:00 -
[8]
If its integrated you wouldn't need a high slot for the weapon ??
I like this idea but imo you should make the cruiser very slow and not very maneuverable.
Also with very few structure hit points and only 1 or 2 low and medium slots.
For the manual aiming you could align then shoot or just press shoot on your target and it aligns you automatically (like warping but it shoots instead of warps)
And i think it should be skill intensive with a cost of around 40 mill mineral price.
(You wouldn't spam them anywhere with that price you would make sure you have support, maybe bring a really good role for the logistics to help with)
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Baxalusx
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.16 10:58:00 -
[9]
capital guns are more or less useless unless you're in siege mode
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im ghey xD |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2007.08.16 11:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Baxalusx
capital guns are more or less useless unless you're in siege mode
Ok, so far:
Align for warp can be used as targeting mechanic.
Bonusses on the ship can make a single cap gun *****ble.
Would need new models, probably of the guns too.
The sig resolution of the gun makes it fairly useless for smaller targets.
And to the above, that can be fixed with a bonus on the ship, perhaps making the gun less powerful then a dread in siege mode.
I like it.
Quote:
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Ferreus Malukar
The X-Trading Company
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Posted - 2007.08.16 11:54:00 -
[11]
Wow I sure love this Idea! (Homeworld fan  )
If those cruisers then need a siege mode to fire, so be it.
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This is my main. There are many like it but this one is mine. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my main is useless. Without my main I am useless. |
Triana
Gallente
MMK Design and Logistic
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Posted - 2007.08.16 13:45:00 -
[12]
Spinal mount ?
so u can take a weapon one or two size above what u can normally use on that class of ships and make it a fixed design running whole length of the ship?
i kinda like the idea to be honest
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War is like any other bad relationship. Of course you want out, but at what price? And perhaps more importantly, once you get out, will you be any better off? |
Triana
Gallente
MMK Design and Logistic
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Posted - 2007.08.16 13:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
that would need new ship models.
Imagine how you would integrate a spinal weapon into the Moa or Blackbird. However Gallente ships would be full of it ...
Spinal mount thorax .....instant love
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War is like any other bad relationship. Of course you want out, but at what price? And perhaps more importantly, once you get out, will you be any better off? |
Neuromandis
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:56:00 -
[14]
This is a very very interesting proposition, and it sounds easy enough to implement, as long as someone actually makes the ships, that is.
I can see:
* A definite role, that is unfullfilled today (capship-killers)
* Drawbacks (being the most vulnerable mofo evah to conventional ships)
* Balancing factors (a single highslot for a gun means no cloaking nonsense and the like, this one is a "heavy bomber" through and through)
* Nothing gamebreaking to begin with.
I like it immensely. GJ.
I definately think that the firepower of a single capital gun is what is needed.
Oh, and you don't actually have to do anything fancy to say it's not turreted - just give it a freakishly low tracking speed, and screw the graphics.
Again, nice idea.
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If someone else from my Corporation or Alliance agrees with me, he will say so. Assume nobody does :)
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WTB: Scorpion wing (left)
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:20:00 -
[15]
I like it a lot. A new model or at least a modified model wouldn't be THAT bad since the new engine is coming out soon anyway. You wouldn't need too much stuff either. A new ship and a single new module- an inverter or something.
Ship has:
fitting bonus for cap weapon
tracking/explosion velocity/radius penalty
very low sig resolution
low speed and maneuvering
Some sort of fueled device (probably using stront) to convert cruiser power to prime the cap weapon...
Cheap, usable, not gamebreaking at all... and FUN!
holy crap.
I mean, a post like this, I feel like I should say something that tears the idea to shreds but I can't think of anything. it's a good solid idea and it would look cool.
And as a homeworld nerd myself, I envision recruiting noobs, cramming them into as many of these things as I can muster and having them all fire on a dread or POS at the same time... Remember the way that looked when you attacked Higara and had like 23927423 captured ion frigates attacking the heavy cruisers? HELL YES!
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
RyGy
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Posted - 2007.08.16 21:01:00 -
[16]
Updated the name to be a little more descriptive.
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Rei Sara
Duty.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 22:28:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rei Sara on 16/08/2007 22:30:31
Great idea!
The trouble with it would be working out the manual-alignment targeting.
I know the "add a module that temporarily changes ship attributes" bit is getting used a lot these days, but that would probably be a good alternative for this situation.
My idea (Kinda stolen from Yamichi Wiggin above, but tweaked a bit):
- Give the ships an inherent penalty to weapon accuracy (maybe have the penalty reduced slightly per level of skill with the ship's class) that makes the capital weapons nearly useless against anything moving at all.
- Implement a fuel-free siege-mode-like module that temporarily (20-30 second cycles) immobilizes the vessel but improves weapon tracking to effective levels and reduces weapon capacitor usage to something a cruiser can manage. This module could also cut your max number of targets to 1, and possibly force your ship to align to that one target.
This would partly require the previously mentioned idea of having the Caldari version use a hybrid turret rather than citadels to keep it balanced.
Edit: Made a clarification.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.08.17 09:23:00 -
[18]
Gotta have the big gun that effectively takes up the whole ship and aligns directly to the target to make it look cool.  And if the recoil knocks it back 20km, all the better.
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ICE Blueprint Sales |
Strife Phoenix
Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2007.08.17 09:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
What you are suggestin is the concept of "spinal weapons", weapons integralm to a ship and build around the main axis of the ship (or to better put it the whole ship is build around the weapon ). It is widely used in SF novels and tabletop games.
In present days: The A10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog / Tank Killer)
ACERBUS-VINDICTUM - Revelare Pecunia! |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Strife Phoenix
Originally by: Venkul Mul
What you are suggestin is the concept of "spinal weapons", weapons integralm to a ship and build around the main axis of the ship (or to better put it the whole ship is build around the weapon ). It is widely used in SF novels and tabletop games.
In present days: The A10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog / Tank Killer)
Right, or all of the different airplanes/ships build around a single weapon plus some small secondary. (the thunderbolt has too much "other" weapons to be the best example)
The best example I think is the B 25G and H B25 variants with a 75 mm (2.95 inch) gun in a airplane.
My idea is that the weapon should be a part of the ship, not an added module.
For a cruiser class the damage output should be on par with that of a XL gun as an alpha strike, with long cool down/recharge period (I still think that a special fuel to load it with a charge separated from the main capacitor is a good idea).
To balance the high otput weapons, all the other high mounts of the ship will accept only modules with 1 size less than that of the ship (so only small weapons in a cruiser).
Seein as the weapon will be normally mounted along the main axis of the ship (mmmh, maybe then Caldari can't use them ) and use most of the space there, the ship will not have a drone bay and a small cargohold.
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 15:38:00 -
[21]
Caldari ships can use them... We'd just have to fly 30 degrees away from our target so the weird axis coming out of one of the wingtips is pointed at the ship.
Also- love the idea of huge recoil :-) Wouldn't make science sense for the lasers though.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Byron Hunter
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:11:00 -
[22]
I hope that CCP likes this idea. Smaller corps could fight the bigger alliences and do some major damage.
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Malcanis
High4Life
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari ships can use them... We'd just have to fly 30 degrees away from our target so the weird axis coming out of one of the wingtips is pointed at the ship.
Also- love the idea of huge recoil :-) Wouldn't make science sense for the lasers though.
Maybe the laser drains so much power the engines falter for a few moments?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Malcanis
Maybe the laser drains so much power the engines falter for a few moments?
Ohhhh dig it! Huge mass+no engines for 30 seconds = start over. I like that idea a lot!
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Turgun
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:58:00 -
[25]
i like this idea, reckon it should be for bc's though, i'd like the idea of having a bc type manticore, would make sense to tbh . I think it should work the same as manticores cruise bonus aswell, leave the bc a couple of high slots to mess about with but dont overpower the ships powergrid,cpu and bonuses.
Drake torpedo boat ftw!!!
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 18:13:00 -
[26]
yeah- after some thought I'm thinking that they need to be BC level cost. It's easy to get a bunch of noobs into cruisers, spend 10 mil on a ship and swarm a dread fleet. You put out half a bil in ships and take out 15 bil. If the ships cost more like 40-60 mil and are T1 tanks, it should be balanced.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Randolf Sightblinder
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:56:00 -
[27]
Really, I think they should be setup so that they can take out dreads (maybe damage a pos but not as well as a dread.
But why would you need to make them cost a lot, these things would die FAST to a conventional cruiser or BC or even a BS, they, like the idea of a torpedo bomber would force a mixed fleet something thats all dreads would go down to a group of these, something that has support would chew up a gang of just these quick.
Currently the counter to dreads is either dreads or LOTS of BS class ships. These would be interesting, but would need balanced well, which judging by the stealth bomber is going to be a pain.
Randolf
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Ryn Gyviera
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:33:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Ryn Gyviera on 17/08/2007 21:34:37
Heh, posted with a newbie alt :P
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RyGy
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:34:00 -
[29]
Well the original idea was for the ships by themselves to be the same as a cruiser, however, the weapon would have to be purchased separately, thus the total cost of an effective capship killer would be on par with a battlecruiser. That would also mean that they aren't insurable for the full cost of the ship plus weapon, so it prevents people from just using a squad of these to gank ships in one shot. It forces them to cover their vulnerability and use them intelligently, rather than completely repalcing a dreadnaught fleet with replacable cruisers.
Of course, i didn't actually think about that when i made the original post, but it sounds good to me :P
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:37:00 -
[30]
I suppose the cost isn't too important. if we basically make a cruiser that mounts capital weapons and has a tracking penalty, then only people able to use capital weapons can fly them. So you won't be able to fast-track noobs into the ships. And if somebody has large hybrid V and all the support skills for it, they probably have other skills that could be more useful. The "cost" then is the fact that you just took your Rokh out of combat in favor of a one-trick pony...
so I guess I'm ok with a 5-6M cost (mid level cruiser ish?) for the ship and just mount a capital weapon mount.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.08.18 05:14:00 -
[31]
Need to be careful about this gun and highsec. Think what a big group of these could do to a freighter. Though CONCORD and sentries will shred them fast like anything else, the alpha (particularly with the Minmatar version using Artillery) can be brought to very high levels in a group, and far cheaper than a BS.
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ICE Blueprint Sales |
JamesTalon
Caldari
Electric Fury Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.18 05:30:00 -
[32]
This reminds me of Sword of the Stars. There were some ship parts you could fit that allowed over-sized guns to be fit. Basically, allowed a Destroyer (small) to fit medium or possibly large class guns, but only one, and very limited number of small weapons. Though, the average ship could have 10 weapons, and that was a small ship. LArge can have around 20, depending on what parts you use, or if your like me, and use a giant gun that fires chunks of asteroids into planets
"Return with your shield, or on it." |
Zephyr Mallory
Limberry Aegis GmbH
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Posted - 2007.08.18 05:59:00 -
[33]
Sounds like a good idea.
Unfortunately the point the whole ship and shoot interface seems counter to EVE's turret based combat system.
I see the generic gun with engines concept as a good idea, and here's my take on it
2 High Slots, 1 Turret Slot (1 for Siege Module)
2 Mid slots (+1 for caldari, Minmatar)
2 Low Slots (+1 for Gallente, Amarr)
Average cruiser speed for their race, Shields and Armor on par with the Tier 1 cruiser (i.e. Osprey, Exequeror, Auguthingy)
Cruiser skill boni
○ 5% bonus to Extra Large Turret Damage per level
○ 5% Bonus to Extra Large Turret Optimal range per level
Role Bonus:
99% reduction in powergrid and CPU fitting requirements for Siege Modules and 99.5% reduction in powergrid requirements for Extra-Large turrets.
It's not going to fit a tank very well, but you may as well allow it to be able to move quickly, via Afterburners, and maybe fit a target painter or some sort of basic damage/tracking/range boosting module but face it, even with the role boni- it should be a tight tight fit to get anything else in there.
Keep 'em Tech I- cheap and market seeded BPO's
insurance is kinda pointless, you blow the ship up, so what. just pray the gun and the siege module survive.
That's my take on the idea.
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Tsurokigaarai
APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.18 08:56:00 -
[34]
An interesting idea. To prevent people from using them in high sec just don't allow them to fit things in High sec. Something like
"CONCORD prohibits the mounting of Capital class weapons while in high security space. Your attempt to mount the weapon has failed."
and when trying to enter hi-sec
"CONCORD Prohibits the mounting Capital class weapons in .5 or above space. Your jump request has been denied."
Have this occur at POS assembly arrays too. If they're using a carrier they should already be in low sec and if some hanky panky is going down in empire with the people who still have cap ships in Hi-sec the list of people to blame (and then have a nice chat with the GM's) would be very, very small as the ships would only be allowed to stay in the same system as the carrier that fitted them.
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*results may vary*
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.18 11:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar
An interesting idea. To prevent people from using them in high sec just don't allow them to fit things in High sec. Something like
"CONCORD prohibits the mounting of Capital class weapons while in high security space. Your attempt to mount the weapon has failed."
and when trying to enter hi-sec
"CONCORD Prohibits the mounting Capital class weapons in .5 or above space. Your jump request has been denied."
Have this occur at POS assembly arrays too. If they're using a carrier they should already be in low sec and if some hanky panky is going down in empire with the people who still have cap ships in Hi-sec the list of people to blame (and then have a nice chat with the GM's) would be very, very small as the ships would only be allowed to stay in the same system as the carrier that fitted them.
Good idea, very good. (and I want to keep this in the first page too )
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joshmorris
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Posted - 2007.08.18 11:26:00 -
[36]
These would be really good in 0.0 for taking down station services by using SMALL gangs ... not 60 man bs fleets for but a hour
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Zephyr Mallory
Limberry Aegis GmbH
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Posted - 2007.08.18 17:02:00 -
[37]
Gorion- how bout upon entering a -0.5 + system, the message reads "DED Regulations prevent the use of capital class weapons in empire space. All Capital class weapons systems will be powered down for your protection" or some such
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.08.18 21:48:00 -
[38]
Sounds great. My main concern would be that it could/would be used to greif in highsec. Although I've never tried myself, I assume that shooting a stationary target, even with a capital weapon would pretty much hit every time?
If that's the case, then I can see these being used to grief miners everywhere. Especially if they can one shot a barge, or god forbid an exhumer, where the insurance doesn't come near to covering the cost of the ship.
Behaps going with the idea that you could only fire the gun when in siege type mode.. and the siege module can't be activated in high sec would work.
Another interesting alternative may be to have these flying guns restricted to the system they are in, and unable to use gates. They could, however, be jump bridged, jump portalled, or fit into carrier bays and jumped to the battle location. Perhaps each carrier could fit a couple of them. I'm not an expert on carriers though, so I don't know if that is realistically possible. =D
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Teldar Orion
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Posted - 2007.08.18 22:16:00 -
[39]
Problem with the Siege module idea is your changing the ship from Spinal mounted ship(ie big gun with engines)" to a Deployable player-flown turret.
1 highslot (The big gun)
2-3 medslots (one or more is gonna have to be a sensor booster)
2-3 lowslots (one or more is gonna have to be a sensor booster)
5% to ship agility per cruiser level (to align the gun quickly)
Bonus: 99.9% to both powergrid and CPU cost of an XL turret (To fit the gun)
Bonus: Firing an XL turret only drains 75% of your ships maximum capacitor.
Short and sweet.
and encourages use of power transfer modules to "Juice up" the ships to increse RoF, and NoS's can knock them out of the fight, bringing some balance to them.
The programming for the spinal gun makes the mods cry but hey...
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.18 22:27:00 -
[40]
A novel concept, but entirely useless for the game. Capital ships do not need an anti-capital ship, since virtually everything smaller than it, is a danger to it. The only exception is the relative safety a Carrier or Mothership has when faced with only a couple of ships. Blame that on the fact that Fighters will track and vaporize just about anything.
And even if this had a valid reason for being in the game, I wouldn't want to see CCP ripping off others' designs and more sci-fi cliches just because they can. Eventually you find yourself introducing Deathstars and Dyson Spheres. Bleh.
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Soneia Blends
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Posted - 2007.08.19 00:36:00 -
[41]
Okay - "I don't like it because someone else already did it" is a valid chain of thought I guess.
As for griefing miners in high sec? ... did you miss the two comments about making them unable to use their weapons in high sec? I think that either one would solve the problem.
I personally would like to see this as another class of ship- not tech 2, more like the destroyers and battlecruisers are, require the cruiser skill at level 3 or 4 and then have a seperate skill book for that specific class.
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Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.19 01:17:00 -
[42]
So what happens when people stop flying dreads since a large enough fleet of these could alpha a capital or a POS?
Originally by: Khavi Vetali
Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
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Zephyr Mallory
Limberry Aegis GmbH
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Posted - 2007.08.19 01:49:00 -
[43]
probably the same thing that happened when people stopped flying in low sec because a gate camp with enough target and tracking boosters could instapop stuff.
Help fight the Salvage Ninjas |
dragonofearth
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Posted - 2007.08.19 02:33:00 -
[44]
I like it. yet i think the ship should be a massive gun with rockets on it. The ship is the gun and someone put engines on it. One or 2 medium one or 2 low no high since it is a gun. The ship is the gun would be awesome to see it flying around
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Teldar Orion
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Posted - 2007.08.21 05:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Berrik Radhok
So what happens when people stop flying dreads since a large enough fleet of these could alpha a capital or a POS?
Blob warfare moves to a whole new level.
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Aftershock2100
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Posted - 2007.08.21 08:57:00 -
[46]
Ok, without thinking of how it would be implemented, balance, is it even viable, blah blah, i just have 1 thing to say to this idea....
COOL!!!
(ps: homeworld ftw!)
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Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:28:00 -
[47]
I like it, but make em BCs, not cruisers: we have 4 cruiser per race now, and only 2 BCs.
make it a BC!!
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"post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." |
Mr Horizontal
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:43:00 -
[48]
One of the things about the A-10 is the main gun's recoil. Also a good pic of the size of the gun next to a VW Beetle.
I like the idea of this, but I think this ship needs to be an absolute pig to fly.
First, I think the physics of this need to be figured out. The A10 needs to fire while flying at full thrust, and the guns recoil is equivalent to just over half the main thrust of the engines.
So when the cruiser fires the gun, there is a sudden, immediate speed going backwards, so if the pilot isn't going at sufficient speed when firing the ship is knocked backwards and sent haywire.
Second, this ship with such a large armamemnt must have a much heavier mass (between cruiser and Battleship) and an agility that of a Battleship.
Having a low agility negates the need to have a major Rate of Fire nerf on the gun, as it'd need to be manouvered into position before firing. Then of course when it does fire, it's knocked off target etc.
Third, while it should have some high slots, none of them should be either turret or launcher hardpoints. This boat is dead in the water without a fleet.
Fourth, like Stealth Bombers and bombs, it's not allowed to fire in Empire.
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Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.08.21 14:28:00 -
[49]
I like this Idea
Originally by: Steini OFSI
The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.
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Falcyon
Senate and People of Rome
VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.21 15:01:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Falcyon on 21/08/2007 15:01:07
I definitely think spinal weapons is a cool idea. I'd be all for it.
Under the current architecture of the game, however, it might be easier to design just a mobile gun platform. A cruiser-sized platform similar in design philosophy to the Barges and Exhumers (which are built specifically to handle one type of module, the Strip Miners and Ice Harvesters) that can house a single capital-sized turret. It would be slow, have low shield/armor and a smallish cargohold (but big enough for ammo), and it could even have a short-duration siege mode that burns strontium clathrates.
Either way, there are some clear disadvantages, such as it being called a primary target 90% of the time while it's engaged, but it can put some hurt onto the capitals if it gets the chance. It's an extra tactical option for both sides of the engagement. I mean, heck, they pushed POS turrets outside the shield so that small gangs would finally have something to do: at the same time as this ship can bring a big gun into the fight for cheap, it can also give that small gang something else to do with its spare time.
Not to say we should only introduce the ship because it'd be a juicy target. We need some more thought on its advantages and how to make it worthwhile.
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Thread on idea for Ship/Module Customization, Depreciation, and Towing |
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Azbel
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Posted - 2007.08.21 17:23:00 -
[51]
Very interesting idea. And since I am all about them adding more ships to the game I will pile on.
If this thing needs a nerf against a mass alphastrike just slow down its ability to power up. Make it have to go into siege mode or something in order to fire. Slow it down, make firing the gun like webbing itself. Maybe make it so when you æfireÆ you start flashing red to them but donÆt actually shoot them for another 10-20 seconds.
That way it canÆt just warp in and hammer a POS or outpost module. I think this thing would NOT replace dreads as the POS killers because there is no freaking way they would be able to tank those POS guns. A POS would eat these like candy. No I think the big use would be to break a POS siege.
Most of this concept would not take much to do. Conceptually it is just a cruiser size stealth bomber. Without the stealth.
Can a siege weapon even do much to a BS? Does such a ship have any use against BSes at all?
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.08.22 05:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Azbel
Very interesting idea. And since I am all about them adding more ships to the game I will pile on.
If this thing needs a nerf against a mass alphastrike just slow down its ability to power up. Make it have to go into siege mode or something in order to fire. Slow it down, make firing the gun like webbing itself. Maybe make it so when you æfireÆ you start flashing red to them but donÆt actually shoot them for another 10-20 seconds.
That way it canÆt just warp in and hammer a POS or outpost module. I think this thing would NOT replace dreads as the POS killers because there is no freaking way they would be able to tank those POS guns. A POS would eat these like candy. No I think the big use would be to break a POS siege.
Most of this concept would not take much to do. Conceptually it is just a cruiser size stealth bomber. Without the stealth.
Can a siege weapon even do much to a BS? Does such a ship have any use against BSes at all?
If the BS is stupid enough to stand still it does. Indeed, if the BS DOES stand still (or head directly at it, this thing should lay some major hurt on it, not an instapop, but enough to make it felt. 3500mm Artillery shells (or whatever) should be crippling to most ships if they manage to get a direct hit in, but so inaccurate that it doesn't usually happen. Also, if they go with spinal (only fires one direction) instead of the admittedly easier slow tracking, you should be able to come in behind it or to its sides and take it out without taking much (if any) return fire.
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ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.22 22:49:00 -
[53]
I like it. This idea would be a great new twist to POS warfare.
As an added bonus it would also end lowsec gate camping as we know it. Such a ship would be useless at close range but if 2-3 of these things warped to 100 on a camp, the pirates would have until they acquired a lock to disburse. In 0.0 most camps have snipers that would take them out first. I figure big gun = long locking time.
New stuff = Good
Nerfs = Bad |
Falcyon
Senate and People of Rome
VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.24 14:48:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Falcyon on 24/08/2007 14:48:29
Originally by: Trent Nichols
Edited by: Trent Nichols on 22/08/2007 22:57:00
I like it. This idea would be a great new twist to POS warfare.
As an added bonus it would also end lowsec gate camping as we know it. Such a ship would be useless at close range but if 2-3 of these things warped to 100 on a camp, the pirates would have until they acquired a lock to disburse.
I figure if they warped into a belt any possible victims would either be gone or on top of them by the time they align that gun. But when they warp to a gate, they come out pointed at the gate and thus the campers.
In 0.0 most camps have snipers that would take them out first.
I'm not sure if using capital-sized ammo on some gate campers is worthwhile. It all depends on how accurate the weapon system is, either spinal or low-tracking: we're talking about a weapon that may need to be balanced out to be so inaccurate that it can't hit something orbiting a stargate even at that range (definitely if the target is standing still, but not necessarily if it's moving). It's a bit unlikely, but plausible, I think.
In any case, I'd definitely look forward to seeing a huge spinal-mounted laser beam that can rake across the hull of a target, not just fire for the centerpoint like our current weapons do.
Well, just thought of this, actually: we already have weapon systems that fire from the hip, such as probe launchers and the new bomb launchers (at least so I've heard, correct me if I'm wrong). This idea for a spinal-mount system isn't that far-fetched: just let the player aim the ship themselves by orienting on the target (essentially approach it) and then activate the weapon system. It fires straight in front of your ship, and the first thing in its path gets the hit. Simple.
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Thread on idea for Ship/Module Customization, Depreciation, and Towing |
Zimjin
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:24:00 -
[55]
Think I'd do it something like this:
The gun is part of the ship. It comes included and cannot be upgraded, switched out, unequipped, etc. It's part of your hull, after all.
You get one new interface command:
* "Fire main battery"
This forces your ship to attempt to align to the target to fire. It will fire as soon as you get aligned, if that ever happens. If you're trying to fire at some orbiting frigate or whatnot, you'll simply never get to fire.
Other than that the ship is relatively normal. 1-3 high slots, 4 or so midslots, 1-2 low slots.
Powergrid of 400 but the ship "bonus" is "500% powergrid usage for all medium weapons or larger". Basically you have good powergrid and some high slots, but you can only really mount small, low power weapons. The powergrid will allow you some decent shields and other items, though, just not big guns.
There would also be some new modules implemented that impact your main battery, but the gun itself is part of the ship and can't be changed or unloaded.
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Rogen DarHeel
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:59:00 -
[56]
Great. Another way for noobs to completely own high SP players.. as if things aren't bad enough .. what with any idiot with a warp jammer being able to warp scram a capital ship that wants to be able to lock a target.
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Falcyon
Senate and People of Rome
VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:28:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Rogen DarHeel
Great. Another way for noobs to completely own high SP players.. as if things aren't bad enough .. what with any idiot with a warp jammer being able to warp scram a capital ship that wants to be able to lock a target.
I haven't found a lot of noobs who can use capital ammo. I'd say that's a high-enough barrier.
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Thread on idea for Ship/Module Customization, Depreciation, and Towing |
Teldar Orion
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Posted - 2007.08.28 06:34:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Rogen DarHeel
Great. Another way for noobs to completely own high SP players.. as if things aren't bad enough .. what with any idiot with a warp jammer being able to warp scram a capital ship that wants to be able to lock a target.
If your a High SP player and stand still long enough for one of these to get a bead on you, you probably deserve a Dual giga beam laser 1 to the face.
Months of training for XL guns? Price of guns and ammo? Skill to use one of these without getting exploded by some day frigate pilot orbiting at 1000m with blasters?
Limited in use(Slow/far off BS's, Capships, POS's), Cost, Training time.
All major disadvantages. If your uber-command BC gets owned by one of these, the EVE forums will take a deep breath in and laugh. Hard.
Some of us want to hear the roar of the big guns, without being on the receving end.
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.28 09:56:00 -
[59]
I like
Originally by: Karanth
Wimps play empire. Real men play in 0.0. Hardcore masochists live out in drone space.
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Hyu
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:56:00 -
[60]
This is actually great idea!
I just started dream to have cruiser with siege mode.. It would not be that imbalanced anyway, I think it would have plenty of usage especially defending situations when those capital ships come. |
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Berlina
Caldari
Archaios Phantasma
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Posted - 2007.08.28 12:51:00 -
[61]
Yup this idea is great, and so is homeworld, ion frigs ftw
Amarr - Siege Ion Beam - (Or sajuks ancient beam)
Caldari - Siege Missile (Big fat jucy launcher or hw2 vaygr Battlecruiser missile battery)
Gallente - Siege Blaster (Or shotgun with the abuility to fire multiple shells)
Minmatar - Siege Burst artillery cannon (3 - 5 shot cannon burst from a big ac)
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.08.28 14:15:00 -
[62]
I like this idea. Might be the tool to take down the cyno jammer. Ofcourse, they can't go alone, as they will get shredded by the POS guns and any defence that might be there, but they could have enough firepower to disable the cyno jammer.
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KtB
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.08.28 14:26:00 -
[63]
Haha. Did you play tdzk by anychance?? ;). We had spinal mounted weps in that.
Theyd basically be ships with pretty weak defense but a hell lot of offense. And converting it to eve concept, you'd have to nano them out to hell and back to make them able to hit things. Since you need to turn the whole ship to actually fire at anything :P.
The gun would basically dish out maybe 4x the damage of a normal gun with a 10% chance to have a "critical hit" where it would do x3 damage (12x damage of normal ship). You could increase the chance of a critical by nano'ing it out to crap and adding targeting computers etc etc.
Thats all converted to the eve way anyways. Tdzk was alot of equations :P
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Rogen DarHeel
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Posted - 2007.08.28 15:42:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Teldar Orion
Originally by: Rogen DarHeel
Great. Another way for noobs to completely own high SP players.. as if things aren't bad enough .. what with any idiot with a warp jammer being able to warp scram a capital ship that wants to be able to lock a target.
If your a High SP player and stand still long enough for one of these to get a bead on you, you probably deserve a Dual giga beam laser 1 to the face.
Months of training for XL guns? Price of guns and ammo? Skill to use one of these without getting exploded by some day frigate pilot orbiting at 1000m with blasters?
Limited in use(Slow/far off BS's, Capships, POS's), Cost, Training time.
All major disadvantages. If your uber-command BC gets owned by one of these, the EVE forums will take a deep breath in and laugh. Hard.
Some of us want to hear the roar of the big guns, without being on the receving end.
How the hell is cap ship going to out run an interceptor?? Inty's go into warp faster, have a higher warp velocity and can fly 100's of circles around a dread before it can even align. Your statements are pure noob-ness. Everyone knows that single high sp players are being made into big cows for noob wolf packs to completely devour and this is just another attempt at it. The more CCP caters to what new players want the more vets are going to quit and when the new players finally realize what we vets are complaining about today.. they will also finally realize thier noob-ness and prolly quit as well.
I hope CCP knows what it's doing when listening to new players... because it sure doesn't look like it.
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