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Drew Blaze
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Posted - 2007.08.21 14:17:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Drew Blaze on 21/08/2007 14:17:50
Originally by: InnerDrive
Originally by: Chi Quan it should be mentioned that MC has the most effective cap fleet in eve and is interested to keep it that way.
btt: consider this: the 'dictor may be able to hold down a much bigger investment, but so can a tackeling frig. and like the frig, the interdictor has no means of dealing marginally adequate damage to his prey.
I agree with this statement , this post is no more than MC crying about losing super caps :D
Get some more numbers , get some more support instead of all flying caps :D
Dictors are fine, in fact i think sabres are way overpriced.
LoL, this statement is 100% true. I tried for so long to get into a MC corp and like so many others they deny everyone because MC thinks they are æGodsÆ. Funny thing is I am fighting against MC/FIX everyday and everyday I get more and more kills under my belt.
Thanks for not letting me join a MC corp, now you reap the consequences.
Ill make sure to use my dictor every chance I get since MC doesnÆt know how to stop this tactic.
Everyone needs help/friends... even MC/FIX/BOB
Oh and dictors I believe are just fine, like someone said its not the dictors that 'kill' you, its the support AROUND it.
___________________________ Secret Alt. |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.08.21 14:57:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 21/08/2007 15:00:57
Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs
Useless.
Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?...
(not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...) ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.21 17:06:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Did you miss the fact that dictor usually stays in the middle of his own bubble just after dropping it?
Yes there is a way to evade it (warp, then drop bubble) but its up to CCP to FIX THEM so they stop ppl who initiated warp already.
Actually, I'd trade bubbles going down whilst off grid, for my bubbles actually stopping someone who's pressed 'warp' already, but not left yet.
Not that I think it's all that big a deal. Interceptors are pretty tough for dreadnoughts and carriers to hit, after all...
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Lenaria
Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2007.08.21 17:12:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Lenaria on 21/08/2007 17:13:53 A noobship with 10k warp scrambler can easely hold down carrier. So i have nothing against 30kk dictor holding down mothership. On the other hand, i will happely trade that for "capital warp disruptior" what can be installed on carriers and dreadnought with intention to scrambler motherships and titans. ==============================================
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.21 20:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs
Useless.
Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?...
(not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...)
Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations?
Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know. |
Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.21 22:28:00 -
[66]
Originally by: James Lyrus Actually, I'd trade bubbles going down whilst off grid, for my bubbles actually stopping someone who's pressed 'warp' already, but not left yet.
^^ This.
Originally by: Lenaria A noobship with 10k warp scrambler can easely hold down carrier. So i have nothing against 30kk dictor holding down mothership.
And he has to stay on grid and put his ass on the line to hold him there. He can't warp off for 1m 30 sec and say hey bubbles gonna go down warp in again drop it and get out.
Originally by: Bein Glorious
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs
Useless.
Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?...
(not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...)
Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations?
Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know.
20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it.
But for the 100th time since people can't read this is about the fact of dictors being able to bubble anything not just super cap, but fleets, etc and get out while everyone has fun not being able to warp to a 10m isk ship that doesn't even have to stay in the fight.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.21 22:41:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Xeliya
20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it.
Because when flying dictor you have time to assess situation, move exactly behind mom and place perfect 11km off bubble. At this time even titan will lock it...
Face it - bubbling is warp in-set orbit-drop-get out. If someone took his time to place bubble 11km BEHIND mom then i guess its well deserved that mom has problems. And you should fire your support pilots.
Quote:
But for the 100th time since people can't read this is about the fact of dictors being able to bubble anything not just super cap, but fleets, etc and get out while everyone has fun not being able to warp to a 10m isk ship that doesn't even have to stay in the fight.
And for the 100th time: dictors force you to fight. Not run/logoffski etc. Also BOTH sides can use dictors. You are acting as if only one side used em and other didnt. If youy know enemy has dictors - put bubbles in advance so they fall into trap and lose theirs. But any decent pilot/FC who knows dictor capabilities should know how to trap and kill ones.
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.21 23:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Because when flying dictor you have time to assess situation, move exactly behind mom and place perfect 11km off bubble. At this time even titan will lock it...
Face it - bubbling is warp in-set orbit-drop-get out. If someone took his time to place bubble 11km BEHIND mom then i guess its well deserved that mom has problems. And you should fire your support pilots.
Orbit at 9km + MWD = 11-12km and you can put them beside, above, under, behind as long as it isn't in front. I take about 5-10 sec to get a spot and be gone.
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.21 23:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Xeliya
20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it.
Get another, more mobile ship to smartbomb the bubble and save the mothership? It's not impossible.
And we can talk about dictor bubbles disappearing after CCP lets you scramble fighters and keep them from disappearing instantly when the carrier recalls them, and not one moment sooner. |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.21 23:37:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Bein Glorious
Originally by: Xeliya
20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it.
Get another, more mobile ship to smartbomb the bubble and save the mothership? It's not impossible.
And we can talk about dictor bubbles disappearing after CCP lets you scramble fighters and keep them from disappearing instantly when the carrier recalls them, and not one moment sooner.
Hmmm touche!
Also how was it? "when carrier/mom pilot logs off all fighters return to drone bay via in-built teleportation engines"?
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.22 00:11:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 00:11:41
Originally by: Bein Glorious And we can talk about dictor bubbles disappearing after CCP lets you scramble fighters and keep them from disappearing instantly when the carrier recalls them, and not one moment sooner.
If carriers get an option to keep fighters from warping then I see no issue. Right now having fighters warp is just a pain in the butt TBH as they never kill anyone.
Donno why I keep feeding trolls about cap ships when this is about dictors . . .
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MegabitOne
Caldari The Black Ops
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Posted - 2007.08.22 04:09:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Xeliya
Originally by: MegabitOne And isn't it so that the wisest way to fight is use your opponents weapons against himself? What about dropping a few bubbles around said cap ship after warping/cynoing into the system to prevent your enemy coming too close with a dictor? Dictor needs to be closer than 4km to launch his bubble.
... 4km? Have you ever seen a bubble? They have a 20km Radious. That means I can drop a bubble 15km away and you have to fly 5km to leave it.
Hmm, I mixed up the ranges of a small and a dictor bubble , but the idea stands: why not deploy some bubbles around the cap ship to catch interdictors in it? Of course those would have to be placed in such a way that an inwarping dictor doesn't get close enough to launch its own bubbles... --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway!
-= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =- |
Mr Krosis
The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.22 06:47:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 00:11:41 Donno why I keep feeding trolls about cap ships when this is about dictors . . .
Because in the very first sentance of the very first post in this thread you say:
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:56:01 Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships.
Indicating that your motive behind this "suggestion" is the fact that dictors can hold down supercapitals.
You have also paint a pretty unrealistic picture of how "easy" it is to simply warp your dictor at exactly 11km from a target, drop a bubble and warp out before anyone has time to react. Assuming you do in fact have a warp target near the objective, you are going to be brought out of warp by the bubbles already on site. Those same bubbles are likely going to prevent you from initiating warping out before you drop your own bubble. Did you watch the video you posted? I think I saw up to 5 bubbles on the mothership at one point. Please don't insult everyones intelligence by telling us how easy it would be for a dictor to warp into that, drop a perfectly placed 11km bubble and warp out in all of 5 seconds. I've flown a dictor in a MS takedown. Yes I warped out and back in. No, its nowhere as easy as you make it out to be.
You also seem to continually ignore the fact that your support fleet should decimate a dictor long before the supercapitals should ever even aquire a lock. Why do you point out how it will take your mothership 10-15 seconds to lock a dictor (another exageration; with even a single T2 sensor booster on a Nxy its less than 10 seconds to target even the smallest MWDing dictor) when it doesn't matter if the mothership locks it? A ceptor without a sensor booster should take no longer than 1 second to target a MWDing dictor. 75% webber? Why are your ceptors fitting basic tech1 webbers? Dictors are faster than ceptors? If you put as much into fitting both of them, we all know that isn't true. Supercapitals that die go down in less than 2 minutes anyway? False. Neither of the motherships IAC has killed this month went down in 2 minutes. The video you posted was also sped up about 10x, that fight lasted some 15-20 minutes.
It would be easier to take your arguments seriously if you didn't so horribly overexagerate / make up almost every point you make. The entire original premise of your argument that dictors are the only things in game that can have an effect off grid is completely false. Dictor bubbles are designed to be deployed in space, and like every other deployable, they are persistant, but destroyable. If CCP wanted dictors to have to stay on site to have an effect they would have given us an interdiction module not a probe launcher.
-- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:00:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 07:03:52
Originally by: Mr Krosis
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 00:11:41 Donno why I keep feeding trolls about cap ships when this is about dictors . . .
Because in the very first sentance of the very first post in this thread you say:
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:56:01 Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships.
Indicating that your motive behind this "suggestion" is the fact that dictors can hold down supercapitals.
Bolded the part everyone seems to ignore.
The part about you should decimate dictors before a MS can get a lock which you say is 10 sec. That is laughable after watching that video, I'm sure you can guess why.
Rest of it is not worth it anymore, same few people, same brick wall.
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Trustus
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.22 08:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:56:01 Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships.
If they leave the grid, the bubble should die. Covert Op's cannot scan and warp, a Battleship cannot shoot a target from another grid, Interceptors cannot tackle from another grid and gang bonus' are being changed to on grid only.
It would also stop the warp a dictor to the gate, drop a bubble, jump though or warp a dictor in, start warp drop a bubble and your safe since you already started warp. They have a MWD it should be required if they want to drop that bubble.
Seeing how Dictor pilots will probably flame me for this, I fly a Sabre and have 3 RL friends who do too.
/Signed
good point m8.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.08.22 11:48:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Bein Glorious
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs
Useless.
Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?...
(not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...)
Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations?
Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know.
The OP isn't just about motherships...
----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Le Cook
Amarr Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.22 12:31:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Wicke I totally agree with the OP.
No ship in this game is able to do an offensive action and have that action continue when the ship in question has left the grid. Missiles disappear. Drones stop working.
Did they change the figther drones ? I have never experianced it myself but i heard once they are commanded to attack a target they follow it into warp and keep attacking when the target comes out of warp ? So if CCP didnt change this yet, u are completly wrong. Because then the Carrier can.
And pls stop this useless Diskussion, only because MC is afraid of loosing Cap-ships.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.22 12:38:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations?
Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know.
The OP isn't just about motherships...
Put MWD on fleet battleships. Counter module seems to exist...
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Evil Thug
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.08.22 12:55:00 -
[79]
If something goes wrong, whine on forums, so it will get changed. Leaving grid, or warping inside of it - is the only way to not get killed by swarm of drones and 55km web.
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Relyen
Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.08.22 21:45:00 -
[80]
They should implement a new type of dictor bubble. One that is specifically designed to prevent Jump drives but doesn't prevent warp drives.
And these bubbles should cost a significant amount more then standard bubbles. And have a few extra rules attached to them. Like the dictor needs to stay in a certain range or something for them to function.
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Lexdon
Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.23 03:56:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Lexdon on 23/08/2007 04:00:48 My supercap isnt invincible anymore! Maybe theres a solution eh? find one besides bugging devs.
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CHAOS100
Momentum. The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.08.23 09:40:00 -
[82]
seriously... what evil thug said. this whining is getting a bit too extreme. motherships aren't solo pwn mobiles (not as much as before)... you might need a support fleet to take out the dictors.
dictors are a part of the game. they can bubble fleets, and they can bubble caps. deal with it. --------------
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AbyssStalker
Dread Fleet
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Posted - 2007.08.23 12:01:00 -
[83]
There's nothing wrong with interdictors... Go cry nerf somewhere else.
Besides their not all that powerful... my dictor got popped last nite almost instantly lol @%^$#& NOS Domi's!! I want those Nerfed too!!!!!
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Mad Rage
Amarr Dark Crystal Corporation
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Posted - 2007.08.23 20:17:00 -
[84]
err interdictor over powered then why does it get pop in seconds lol my retribution is overpowered lol
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Fray
Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.24 16:26:00 -
[85]
Not to heap on the comedy but taken from todays patch notes:
Interdictor warp disrupt probes will now prevent warp, even if the warp is already initiated.
- <@Cf'DigitalCommunist> D2, if you go to za'ha'delve, you will die. - |
Jehuty Vanricadia
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.24 16:54:00 -
[86]
So now that dictor bubbles are even more ball grabbing, how about giving us smartbombs that can actually kill them?
The new changes have ****** super capitals so much now its a bit of a joke, we can all say they are over powered , etc, whine whine whine.
Your going to say " just kill the interdictors " or maybe thats the thinking behind the change but with the current state of the servers this is impossible. At least before we could hit warp and keep the smarties running and hope that we get into warp, now its just a sitting duck.
Give us something that we can use to kill the smartbombs rather than expecting us to slow boat 10km to get to the bubble in the horrendous lag, de-sync etc to pop it and then hopefully warp out again if you are NOT de-synced and popped.
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MegabitOne
Caldari The Black Ops
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Posted - 2007.08.25 07:42:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jehuty Vanricadia So now that dictor bubbles are even more ball grabbing, how about giving us smartbombs that can actually kill them?
Err, you gave the answer to that one yourself, you just gotta let go of the 'smart' in smartbombs Bombs do 6400 damage, that should suffice to kill the lil' ****ies, right?
Oh noes now you're gonna whine now about the 15s you have to wait before they explode! Or about the mere scratch marks on the paint of your MS? But maybe you could just let the dictor drop his bubble and then destroy it by using a bomb.....
--- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway!
-= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =- |
Di Jiensai
Gallente Domination. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.25 10:45:00 -
[88]
come on, Are you serious?
You are telling us here, that your support fleet cant kill one Interdictor durig the time it takes him to warp in, drop a buble, move out of its radius, and warp?
Ok, granted, the fix for warping out of the buble instantly is in the next patch only, but is in there.
So, can we consider that problem solved?
The only thing still broken in that respect is extremely pimped highspeed dictors or ships in general. i can see that it might be a problem catching them.
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