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Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 16:42:00 - [1] Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships. If they leave the grid, the bubble should die. Covert Op's cannot scan and warp, a Battleship cannot shoot a target from another grid, Interceptors cannot tackle from another grid and gang bonus' are being changed to on grid only. It would also stop the warp a dictor to the gate, drop a bubble, jump though or warp a dictor in, start warp drop a bubble and your safe since you already started warp. They have a MWD it should be required if they want to drop that bubble. Seeing how Dictor pilots will probably flame me for this, I fly a Sabre and have 3 RL friends who do too. And TBH it would nice to see it change to a range controlled thing, something like you can only go out 200km.
Bil Power	Posted - 2007.08.16 16:59:00 - [2] I agree they are to powerfull atm and make normal bubbles almost useless
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:03:00 - [3] I dont know, ever since they changed it so supercaps could be bubbled in, it seems as if that change is WAY too overpowered. Think about this here... Interdictor fully fitted costs what, 30 to 50 mil TOPS?? Not to mention these ships can be pumped out of manufacturing slots on a regular basis. Mothership Fully fitted costs what, (im not even going to venture a guess here) more than a few billion, lets leave it at that. Now take into consideration that the MS takes weeks (maybe months?) to build. If the devs are all for balance, please tell me where the balance is in this idea that a 50mil ship can render the jump/warp drive of a multi billion ISK ship absolutely useless with one touch of the f1 key?? There should be a better way to go about implementing interdictors in the fight with super caps, imo. Just my 2 isk, and im most certainly going to get flamed for my opinion on this issue... ________________________________ High Sec PvP
BaliAgha Storm Corporation Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Xeliya Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships. If they leave the grid, the bubble should die. Covert Op's cannot scan and warp, a Battleship cannot shoot a target from another grid, Interceptors cannot tackle from another grid and gang bonus' are being changed to on grid only. It would also stop the warp a dictor to the gate, drop a bubble, jump though or warp a dictor in, start warp drop a bubble and your safe since you already started warp. They have a MWD it should be required if they want to drop that bubble. Seeing how Dictor pilots will probably flame me for this, I fly a Sabre and have 3 RL friends who do too. And TBH it would nice to see it change to a range controlled thing, something like you can only go out 200km. lol, you must have been a victim.. Dictor bubbles are just fine.. Ive been a victim of them as well but you don't see me whining. If you don't like dictor bubbles, get a scout... If you don't have a scout, find a different route... If you cant find a different route, don't travel... --------- --------- [ST-CO] Storm Corporation <BOS> Brotherhood Of Steel
Dead Soldier Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:35:00 - [5] Quote: If you don't have a scout, find a different route... How do you scout for an supercap ? And now 1 ship can hold an supercap in one place and keep him there and call an big fleet to kill it.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Dead Soldier Quote: If you don't have a scout, find a different route... How do you scout for an supercap ? And now 1 ship can hold an supercap in one place and keep him there and call an big fleet to kill it. 1 dictor cant hold supercap - support will obliterate him Or you mean the supercap that acts like "solopwnmobile"?. Then its his fault for getting separated from others...
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:42:00 - [7] Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:42:32 Originally by: BaliAgha lol, you must have been a victim.. Dictor bubbles are just fine.. Ive been a victim of them as well but you don't see me whining. If you don't like dictor bubbles, get a scout... If you don't have a scout, find a different route... If you cant find a different route, don't travel... I have yet to lose a super cap which I don't fly better yet a capital which I do and it is used often. Feel free to look me up on our KB. I also fly dictors on my alt. From a neutral PoV dictors right now are too safe for what they do if you know how to fly them. If you want to bubble a small gate camp for your guys to come in then send some lights with the dictor to distract them or have an on-grid warp out. When we are in a fight with lights and you need to get out you get someone to take over your point, same should apply for a dictor. I should not beable to warp in, start warp back out drop a bubble and an entire fleet or a ship worth billions + months of work is not going anywhere.
Chi Quan Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:42:00 - [8] it should be mentioned that MC has the most effective cap fleet in eve and is interested to keep it that way. btt: consider this: the 'dictor may be able to hold down a much bigger investment, but so can a tackeling frig. and like the frig, the interdictor has no means of dealing marginally adequate damage to his prey. -- Tempus fugit --
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:42:00 - [9] I'm making no comments about dictors and supercaps, because it is a bit off imo, but as for your first argument, it's poor. Just like dropping a scan probe and warping off and it still works, they warp disruption probe is the same. It's a probe that does it's thing independent of the ship, makes no sense for it to stop if the ship leaves. Also, dictors are far from overpowered. Stationary warp bubble can scram over an area almost 20 times larger than a dictor bubble, so how are dictor bubbles overpowered in that sense? CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:46:00 - [10] Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:47:50 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix I'm making no comments about dictors and supercaps, because it is a bit off imo, but as for your first argument, it's poor. Just like dropping a scan probe and warping off and it still works, they warp disruption probe is the same. It's a probe that does it's thing independent of the ship, makes no sense for it to stop if the ship leaves. Also, dictors are far from overpowered. Stationary warp bubble can scram over an area almost 20 times larger than a dictor bubble, so how are dictor bubbles overpowered in that sense? Stationary bubbles can be shot at and they take time to put up and alot of cargo space, a dictor bubble can be SB'ed but seeing SB range it would be dead by the time someone get's into range. Probes work after you warp but you cannot scan while warping which I pointed out. So you start a scan and someone finds you and you need to warp you lose your scan. Originally by: Chi Quan it should be mentioned that MC has the most effective cap fleet in eve and is interested to keep it that way. btt: consider this: the 'dictor may be able to hold down a much bigger investment, but so can a tackeling frig. and like the frig, the interdictor has no means of dealing marginally adequate damage to his prey. MC tags mean nothing when I post about balancing in a game I love but some seem to not realize that. It's not about the ISK it's about how safe they are in terms of holding down anything worth while. A ceptor has to stay on the field, they cannot warp out and come back 2 min later to drop another bubble then rinse and repeat.
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:51:00 - [11] i think most of the people replying are missing the point here. Everyones saying "the dictor will get obliterated by the support fleet". If he leaves the grid after dropping a bubble, how exactly is the fleet obliterating him? Dictor leaves the field after dropping a bubble. Waits for last bubble to expire, comes back, drops another bubble, leaves grid. Rinse and repeat until Said supercap is destroyed. Yeh it sounds really balanced to me. ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Julien Derida Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Xeliya . A ceptor has to stay on the field, they cannot warp out and come back 2 min later to drop another bubble then rinse and repeat. A ceptor is far, far, better equipped to stay on the field without getting popped. Sorry Xel, but I deeply disagree with this thread. You already know that though ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Julien Derida Originally by: Xeliya . A ceptor has to stay on the field, they cannot warp out and come back 2 min later to drop another bubble then rinse and repeat. A ceptor is far, far, better equipped to stay on the field without getting popped. Sorry Xel, but I deeply disagree with this thread. You already know that though How so, a dictor can go faster, has more firepower and a better tank.
Julien Derida Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 18:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Xeliya a dictor can go faster It can? Quote: has more firepower Sure, but its not really relevant. Quote: and a better tank. Perhaps marginally. However, they take a hell of a lot more damage in the first place because they have 3x the sig radius of a ceptor. ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 18:13:00 - [15] Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 18:15:00 Originally by: Julien Derida Originally by: Xeliya a dictor can go faster It can? Sabre Originally by: Julien Derida Quote: has more firepower Sure, but its not really relevant. It is when you have tacklers on you. Originally by: Julien Derida Quote: and a better tank. Perhaps marginally. However, they take a hell of a lot more damage in the first place because they have 3x the sig radius of a ceptor. Sig means nothing when you cannot be tracked or explosion volo is lower then your speed. Standard Sabre setup has 3k shields. As I said on the MC forums Risk vs Reward as everyone always says. Why should I be solely responsible for holding a faction ship, a fleet or a super cap till they die and have no risk. Teamwork should be required in keeping them there thus I need to get out I let others know that so they can get a bubble up.
Wicke Gallente Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 21:54:00 - [16] I totally agree with the OP. No ship in this game is able to do an offensive action and have that action continue when the ship in question has left the grid. Missiles disappear. Drones stop working. I am fine with dictor bubbles holding down ships as long as the offensive action (launching an immediately active bubble) acts the same as the rest of the ships in the game. This should be fixed ASAP. I also feel that dictor bubbles stay active for too long. I'd like to see it act like the rest of the 'offensive' weapons on other ships. The bubble should last 30 seconds at most with a skill prolonging the duration. But that is for another thread at another time.
Tsin'Valha	Posted - 2007.08.17 01:36:00 - [17] Edited by: Tsin''Valha on 17/08/2007 01:37:08 Well, this is what happens when CCP ignores player posts for T2 BS Class Interdictor that fits a high slot Interdiction Generator in one of it's 4 high slots that is the equivalent of a Large Bubble that runs on liquid ozone and strontium. But, we have EVE where common sense ideas that sound really good are the ones put on the "NEVER PUT INTO EVE" side of the "In Testing/Development" bulletin board. So instead we have some rediculous nos-nerf from out in left field being played with, armor tanking missile spammers that will be speed fit as well, polycarb/aux-thrust rigs that are overpowered, snakes pushing ships never made for speed to ceptor speeds, and a whole slew of other rather idiotic things like the nano-drone boats. Yes, that dictors are easy to mass produce and throw at capitals to pin them down makes the 30-50 million ship a bit overpowered in that regard alone. A T2 Interdictor Class BS would have been a much better idea with webification capabilities (web bubble - aka: Gravity Mine). Maybe making it impossible to fit more than 1 dictor launcher or decreasing the time the bubble remains in space or WOW, making it possible to destroy the dictor bubble would balance them out.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.17 02:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 18:21:04 Originally by: Julien Derida Originally by: Xeliya a dictor can go faster It can? Sabre Now buy same equipement/implants/gangmods for ceptor user and he will go MUCH faster. Its just sabre users tend to use gistii + snake sets, where most ceptor pilots dont. But with same equipement ceptor will be ALWAYS faster.
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.17 05:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Dictor bubbles are destroyable. i do hope you're not serious. Dictor bubbles cant be targeted, therefore they cant be destroyed. Mobile Warp Disruptors CAN be destroyed, however. ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.17 05:20:00 - [20] smartbombs
Mr Krosis The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.17 07:03:00 - [21] Dictors do have the same rules applied to them as other ships: they can't use their guns, warp disruptors, webbers, or any other modules after they leave grid. Any other ship can anchor a bubble, and warp away. They don't even need to wait for it to finish anchoring, just deploy, anchor, warp, it will come online while they are away. A dictor is a ship that specializes in deployment of warp disruption spheres, so I don't see much sense in making it less effective at the job than other ships with deployable spheres. Dictors are some of the most fragile ships in the game, and they still need to go to their target to deploy. Its not like you just pick someones name in local, right click and select "bubble up". Your comments that a dictor bubble is the only thing that works off grid (once deployed) is incorrect. Covert ops can indeed scan and warp, and have been able to for some months now. Try it out before you say it can't be done. Interestingly enough, one of the multi-billion isk ships that you're talking about itself can do many things from off grid. You put fighters on a target and it warps, they go after it off grid. You can assign fighters to gang mates while sitting off grid. You can provide gang bonuses to an entire fleet sitting safely off grid in a pos. How about ECM? An ECM boat can fire off several jammers, then warp off a second later. Those targets stay jammed for the full 20 seconds. I'm having a very hard time taking the argument that "No ship in this game is able to do an offensive action and have that action continue when the ship in question has left the grid." seriously. Are you guys new to the game or something? -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.17 07:42:00 - [22] Actualy i perfectly understnad OP and i'm signed. No ship in game can do something tho WHOLE enemy fleet and just warpoff/jumpthogate (SIC! they should at least give u aggro) while whole fleet remain tackled. --- Battlecarriers !
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.17 08:13:00 - [23] Edited by: Xeliya on 17/08/2007 08:24:51 Originally by: Mr Krosis DAny other ship can anchor a bubble, and warp away. They don't even need to wait for it to finish anchoring, just deploy, anchor, warp, it will come online while they are away. And that bubble is on every ones overview, lockable and you have 2+ min to get away from it. Not to mention it takes all your cargo hold up. Originally by: Mr Krosis Dictors are some of the most fragile ships in the game, and they still need to go to their target to deploy. Its not like you just pick someones name in local, right click and select "bubble up". Not really, they are one of the most primaried ship, but not fragile, you still need to get within the same distance with a scram so the right-click line fails, not to mention you have to stay within NOS/Neut range. Originally by: Mr Krosis Covert ops can indeed scan and warp, and have been able to for some months now. Try it out before you say it can't be done. Then they changed that within the last 2 patches, you can always warp to a new spot then start a scan but ifyou warp you won't get the results and you cannot start a scan till you are done warping. I will try it later but I don't remember seeing any patch notes on this. Originally by: Mr Krosis You put fighters on a target and it warps, they go after it off grid. I wish they didn't as that is actually a huge downside, I have not seen one kill from my fighters chasing someone since I got a Carrier half a year ago. And it has been though hell and back. Not to mention when they warp off half the time you need to assign them to someone to get them to come back. Originally by: Mr Krosis You can assign fighters to gang mates while sitting off grid. Yes but there is someone controlling them and you are giving 100m of you assets to someone to control and you cannot see if they are dieing or not, you are still risking assets for reward. Ever lost a fleet of fighters? If you have you will know the pain it brings. You are also a sitting duck like this. Not to mention CCP has said several times they have reconsidered this idea which TBH would not change much since anyone with half a brain knows assigned fighters usually means lost fighters. Originally by: Mr Krosis You can provide gang bonuses to an entire fleet sitting safely off grid in a pos. This is changing if you read dev blogs. Originally by: Mr Krosis How about ECM? An ECM boat can fire off several jammers, then warp off a second later. Those targets stay jammed for the full 20 seconds. Bug != Game mechanics and it should be fixed.
Mr Krosis The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.17 09:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 17/08/2007 08:29:52 And that bubble is on every ones overview, lockable and you have 2+ min to get away from it. Not to mention it takes all your cargo hold up. My point was that making dictor bubbles pop on warp out would make the specialized interdiction ship much less effective than any random ship launching a bubble. Depending on the bubble used, they can be anchored in as little as 60 seconds, and you can fit several in a cargohold. If you opt for the larger bubbles, they can have over 200,000 total hitpoints. A dictor bubble has 1000 HP and can still be popped by smartbombs. Originally by: Xeliya Not really, they are one of the most primaried ship, but not fragile, you still need to get within the same distance with a scram so the right-click line fails, not to mention you have to stay within NOS/Neut range. That's exactly my point. They don't have a magical ability to use their weapon from anywhere, they need to get into the thick of it just like anyone else. Dictor warped out on you? Get a point on him. Originally by: Xeliya Actually you can't, I can fraps it if you want . . . You can warp to a new location then start scanning but you hit warp your scan is canceled. This has been false for several months. I belive it changed when they introduced the on board scanner, which lacks this ability. It only works with probes. I have done it several times, including about an hour ago to make sure before I posted. The window goes blank if you go into warp, but if you wait for the scan time to finish, you still get a result. Originally by: Xeliya I wish they didn't as that is actually a huge downside, I have not seen one kill from my fighters chasing someone since I got a Carrier half a year ago. And it has been though hell and back. Not to mention when they warp off half the time you need to assign them to someone to get them to come back. I didn't say it was a convinient feature, I was merely pointing out the notion that only dictors have an effect off grid, which seems to be the premise of your argument, is false. Originally by: Xeliya Yes but there is someone controlling them and you are giving 100m of you assets to someone to control and you cannot see if they are dieing or not, you are still risking assets for reward. Ever lost a fleet of fighters? If you have you will know the pain it brings. You are also a sitting duck like this. Not to mention CCP has said several times they have reconsidered this idea which TBH would not change much since anyone with half a brain knows assigned fighters usually means lost fighters. I've personally seen MC assign fighters many times so don't tell me what a stupid idea it is. Again, I'm not talking about the validity of the tactic, but it is yet another example of having an effect in combat off grid. In fact, with assigned fighters you never even had to go on grid and be subject to the associated risks. Originally by: Xeliya This is changing if you read dev blogs. I do read dev blogs. Can you point me to the blog where a dev explicitly states this change is a go and being implemented? The closest thing I saw was 2 lines posted in a thread saying "In the future, it is our hope to make gang bonuses only apply when the assigned gang booster is in the same grid." CCP wants to do a lot of things, and devs have posted a lot of ideas and desires over the years. Until they say it's actually being done, it's not. Originally by: Xeliya Bug != Game mechanics and it should be fixed. Can you link me to the bug report? It's worked this way as long as I've played. Every other EW works differently. I can only assume it's working as intended, or it would have changed long ago. If you don't like being bubbled after the person dropping it warps off, that's fine, you're entitled to an opinion. I'm only pointing out the flaw in your logic that it needs to change because dictors are the only things that can have an effect while off grid. They're not. -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
Mr Krosis The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.17 09:27:00 - [25] Also, I do agree that things in warp when a bubble goes up should have their warp canceled. I am not opposed to having a bubble launch trigger an aggression flag for docking/gate jump purposes either. I don't think CCP is really opposed to these things. It may be a technical obstacle more than a balance one. I would imagine more so for the canceling warp than the aggression but I'm not a CCP developer. -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
Lady Caeser Open Fist of Castallus	Posted - 2007.08.17 09:49:00 - [26] Epic whine? No don't nerf dictors. You fail. Xeliya I expect more from you... And making gang bonus only work on-grid WTF.. we want more lag now huh? The interdictor isnt what kills you, it just stops you from running, if you put your ships on the line, then there should be a way to keep you there, a t1 frigate can tackle a carrier or dread quite effectively, at takes a t2 destroyer to catch a supercap. Seems quite balanced to me. If you don't want to die, have a proper gang with decent tactics, not just "OH WOW I SPENT BILLIONS ON THIS SHIP NOW I GET TO KEEEL YOU ALL FOR FREEE YAHH" thats dumbness. -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? --------------------------------------
Callthetruth Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.17 09:55:00 - [27] dictors are only a problem if u lack sufficent support to take em out use youre afs, interceptors and HACs to take down any hostile dictors before they can bubble youre supercaps, a 50 man fleet of super caps and no small ship support deserves to get omgwtfbbq
Jai Cee Quam Singulari M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:17:00 - [28] I'm sorry but I deeply disagree here, dictors are a big SP investment and if you're in a super cap and get pinned down by one dictor you are either alone without support or shouldn't be flying that ship in the first place. To really hold a super cap in place you need multiple dictors because unless you are incredibly lucky you will not be able to repeatedly pop down dictor bubbles outside of smartbomb range but in scramble range whilst you have EVERY ship calling you primary. At a conservative estimate you would need 4 dictor pilots and assuming they fly sabres thats something like 200M isk of ships plus 4 very highly skilled pilots vs a 30bill ship. That seems to compare pretty well to a 500k T1 frig being able to hold down a 150M isk BS.
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.08.18 08:00:00 - [29] /signed for OP.. I see dictors overpowered too..Bubbles should collapse if ship leaves the grid.
InnerDrive Black Lance oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.08.18 10:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Chi Quan it should be mentioned that MC has the most effective cap fleet in eve and is interested to keep it that way. btt: consider this: the 'dictor may be able to hold down a much bigger investment, but so can a tackeling frig. and like the frig, the interdictor has no means of dealing marginally adequate damage to his prey. I agree with this statement , this post is no more than MC crying about losing super caps :D Get some more numbers , get some more support instead of all flying caps :D Dictors are fine, in fact i think sabres are way overpriced.
The Kan Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.18 10:28:00 - [31] Edited by: The Kan on 18/08/2007 11:04:42 Yes, i agree. Dictors are NOT balanced. how can sutch small and unexpensive ship stop cold a supercap? Titan, mom? I agree, bubbles must help pinning down a super cap, preventing it from cyno out, but warp out? there's must be some sort of balance that can be done here. Why not make dictors unable to move while bubble is up? or for a few secs? Why not kill the bubble if dictor warps or jumps? sounds good balancing. On another note, titans where considered unbalanced when they could cyno in, fire the DDD and cyno out. It's not the same as a dictor warping in, bubble up and warp out ? Makes them allmost invencible...
Amarriah	Posted - 2007.08.18 13:19:00 - [32] Edited by: Amarriah on 18/08/2007 13:19:27 I am new to the Dictor ship,but isn't it a strategic weapon? i mean for an invading force with capitals,the biggest ship is called Primary. So dictors go after it. For the invading force,they see the dictor as primary threat,so they need to be dealt with Asap. If the Mega capital gets locked down,they made a strategic miscalculation and deserves to get pwnd Thats how i feel about it :P
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.18 14:24:00 - [33] Edited by: fire 59 on 18/08/2007 14:24:55 I agree that dictor bubbles dissapate or whatever if the user leaves the grid, same as drones and missiles atm Edit - Or as has been previously discussed, capital scramblers to tackle supercapitals. Carrier 1 Billion isk 19 fighters 323 million isk Watching goonfleet getting there @$$ handed to them and reading there hagred attempt at smacktalking after the fact ...PRICELESS
The Kan Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.18 16:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Amarriah Edited by: Amarriah on 18/08/2007 13:19:27 I am new to the Dictor ship,but isn't it a strategic weapon? i mean for an invading force with capitals,the biggest ship is called Primary. So dictors go after it. For the invading force,they see the dictor as primary threat,so they need to be dealt with Asap. If the Mega capital gets locked down,they made a strategic miscalculation and deserves to get pwnd Thats how i feel about it :P That could work, if the bastards didnt warp in, bubble up and warp out. Like i said, it's comparable to a titan cyno in, fire ddd and cyno out. that HAD to be nerfed.. same goes for dictors.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.18 19:52:00 - [35] Originally by: The Kan That could work, if the bastards didnt warp in, bubble up and warp out. Like i said, it's comparable to a titan cyno in, fire ddd and cyno out. that HAD to be nerfed.. same goes for dictors. Because titan could be scrambled and easily killed in the process by solo rapier. Oh wait... Thats the major difference. Dictors die - easily. You just need to have counter for them. And accidentaly dictors ARE the counter for supercapitals, so you need other ship class to remove em.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.18 20:26:00 - [36] Edited by: Xeliya on 18/08/2007 20:30:34 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: The Kan That could work, if the bastards didnt warp in, bubble up and warp out. Like i said, it's comparable to a titan cyno in, fire ddd and cyno out. that HAD to be nerfed.. same goes for dictors. Because titan could be scrambled and easily killed in the process by solo rapier. Oh wait... Thats the major difference. Dictors die - easily. You just need to have counter for them. And accidentaly dictors ARE the counter for supercapitals, so you need other ship class to remove em. Actually no they don't, we almost killed Tyrax's Aeon today and lost 2 of 4 dictors in 30-60min with them having a sniper fleet shooting them. It's called you kill webbers (Rapiers/Huggins) and remote rep dictors. Fraps Only 1 dictor had to warp out I believe.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.18 21:31:00 - [37] Then you counteres supercap counter. Whats wrong with this?
Murukan Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.08.18 22:30:00 - [38] just make dictor bubbles targetable with like 10k health. Boom problem solved. Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Celeste Bane	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:30:00 - [39] Yes, I see your point. Yes, I agree that it is sensible that interdictor's should have their bubbles collapse when they warp away. However.. I'll rather have the game overpowered from the side of interdictors, than to have it overpowered from the side of motherships/titans. Having fewer motherships/titans in the game is better for it in the long run.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.19 06:26:00 - [40] No solo interdictor has ever killed a supercap, I fail to see the problem.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.19 07:31:00 - [41] Edited by: Xeliya on 19/08/2007 07:34:37 Originally by: Celeste Bane Yes, I see your point. Yes, I agree that it is sensible that interdictor's should have their bubbles collapse when they warp away. However.. I'll rather have the game overpowered from the side of interdictors, than to have it overpowered from the side of motherships/titans. Having fewer motherships/titans in the game is better for it in the long run. It's not just about moms and titans, I know many times when I flew dictors I would warp to a gate bubble a fleet and jump out. Our fleet would follow in to kill them. No risk to me and I just scrambled their entire fleet. There should be a risk involved in doing such a task. Now if you wanted to bubble them you would need to jump in some lights with him, warp in bubble, ceptors get points, dictor MWD away and the fleet jumps in. Or if you want to kill a super cap you need to keep those dictors alive at all costs, they just can't warp in - bubble - warp out before anyone locks them
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.19 17:31:00 - [42] Edited by: Bein Glorious on 19/08/2007 17:31:25 Originally by: Xeliya Originally by: James Duar No solo interdictor has ever killed a supercap, I fail to see the problem. That is because you see super cap and MC. The problem is the same as Titans had. They could jump in, do their thing and jump out with little risk. Dictors can warp in do their thing warp out. I know people who have not lost a dictor for over a year and they fly them non-stop because they do as I am saying. If you want to hold a fleet or super cap you should have to stay on the field. Although in some cases I have a beef with how dictors have changed combat, comparing a dictor doing the "bubble and boogie" to a titan doing the "DD and cyno out" is absurd. Interdiction spheres don't make every ship within 250km of the origin explode. edit: typo
The Kan Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.20 13:32:00 - [43] Yeah they dont make all ship ingrid to explode, but, the ones they affect is pretty much hopeless. There's no 20km smartbombs, and dictor bubbles do have 20km range, there's no way a supercap can lock and kill a dictor to prevent him from warping in, deploy and get the heck out of there .. In test server i tried this many times.. Even with 2 sensor boosters, a dictor was able to warp in @ 40km from me, MWDin, deploy bubble, get out and warp off.. In the mean time, i was trying to lock the bastard and no sucess.
Jai Cee Quam Singulari M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.20 14:38:00 - [44] Originally by: The Kan In test server i tried this many times.. Even with 2 sensor boosters, a dictor was able to warp in @ 40km from me, MWDin, deploy bubble, get out and warp off.. In the mean time, i was trying to lock the bastard and no sucess. A capital ships is never meant to be able to defend itself from interdictors which is where you're going wrong. Bring in some support ships, maybe 2-3 interceptors or your own dictor or a rapier/huggin, or an eagle... The list goes on, there are a hell of a lot of ships capable of killing interdictors its just that capital ships aren't on that list. Dictors are not overpowered they just happen to be the counter to capital ships.
Andreya	Posted - 2007.08.20 15:35:00 - [45] this thread make me cry :( 1: why is a MOTHERSHIP by itself? it shouldnt be, it should have many children running aroudn shooting the interdictors off of it. a mothership, or any capital ship shouldnt be a ship that can run around by itself 2: dictors being overpowered? they are easier to kil than interceptors!. your in a super cap! dont be cheap when flying a 30+ billion isk ship and fit officer webbers and neuts on it!!!!!! 3: dictors have to be extremely careful when going for a MS, we have to place the bubbles at almost preciscly 16km away from the supercap. too far, you slow boat away, too close, it gets smartbombed (you SHOULD have officer smartbombs now shouldnt you) 4: capital warp scramblers to tackle capital ships!? i hope that wasnt serious. so if i have a new player alliance, with 100 of us in 0.0, and no or few capital pilots on, you should be able to just sit in our system and kill us all, with us not being able to stop you? yea right 5: the bubble should turn off when the dictor leaves grid? lol, why? its a probe, its a device that doesnt require any attachments to the ship, why should it matter if im 10km away or 10000km. I think all you cap pilots should realize this game isnt meant to be running around solo. if you want that, get a cruiser or smaller ship. since when in any tv show, game, movie, have you ever seen a 'carrier' or a 'mothership' un escorted? (sorry bout typos, its late at night )
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.20 18:07:00 - [46] Edited by: Xeliya on 20/08/2007 18:08:40 Originally by: Andreya 1: why is a MOTHERSHIP by itself? it shouldnt be, it should have many children running aroudn shooting the interdictors off of it. a mothership, or any capital ship shouldnt be a ship that can run around by itself You can't shoot dictors when they can warp out before anyone locks it, and MS's aren't meant to be on their own and if they were, dictors have nothing to worry about. Originally by: Andreya 2: dictors being overpowered? they are easier to kil than interceptors!. your in a super cap! dont be cheap when flying a 30+ billion isk ship and fit officer webbers and neuts on it!!!!!! Dictor warp in, drops bubble, warps out. You have about 5 seconds to find it on you overview lock it (take 10-15 sec) and hold it in place with 1 75% web which in a gang means you will be still going 1500m/s+ after he slows down. Originally by: Andreya 3: dictors have to be extremely careful when going for a MS, we have to place the bubbles at almost preciscly 16km away from the supercap. too far, you slow boat away, too close, it gets smartbombed (you SHOULD have officer smartbombs now shouldnt you) Uh the longest range SB is 10.5km and they made it so SB's start at the center of the ship, thus you press orbit at 10km and hit MWD wait till you beside or behind him and drop it or just click keep at range of 12km. Originally by: Andreya 4: capital warp scramblers to tackle capital ships!? i hope that wasnt serious. so if i have a new player alliance, with 100 of us in 0.0, and no or few capital pilots on, you should be able to just sit in our system and kill us all, with us not being able to stop you? yea right Motherships died before there was even a way to hold them in place, it's called neuts and bumping, works very well against MS's. If he is solo he shouldn't be hard to kill with a plan which should be needed seeing it takes 2 months to build one, all the factory slots of an outpost, and multiple cap ship yards if you want any protection of the final build. But this is not about caps, or was to tackle them. Dictors are fine as long as they need to risk their butt, but right now they don't. Originally by: Andreya 5: the bubble should turn off when the dictor leaves grid? lol, why? its a probe, its a device that doesnt require any attachments to the ship, why should it matter if im 10km away or 10000km. Torps are unguided missiles they don't hit the target anymore, drones Originally by: Andreya I think all you cap pilots should realize this game isnt meant to be running around solo. if you want that, get a cruiser or smaller ship. since when in any tv show, game, movie, have you ever seen a 'carrier' or a 'mothership' un escorted? I guess you missed 90% of my posts as this isn't about caps, this is about dictors.
elaromwol Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.08.20 21:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 20/08/2007 18:08:40 Originally by: Andreya 1: why is a MOTHERSHIP by itself? it shouldnt be, it should have many children running aroudn shooting the interdictors off of it. a mothership, or any capital ship shouldnt be a ship that can run around by itself You can't shoot dictors when they can warp out before anyone locks it, and MS's aren't meant to be on their own and if they were, dictors have nothing to worry about. A dictor bubble has what?...a 20km radius?...that means it has to come closer than a 24km scram to deploy, are you seriously saying an interceptor SPECIFICALLY set up to tackle against interdictors couldn't lock it down?...you've gotta be kidding... Originally by: Andreya 2: dictors being overpowered? they are easier to kil than interceptors!. your in a super cap! dont be cheap when flying a 30+ billion isk ship and fit officer webbers and neuts on it!!!!!! Dictor warp in, drops bubble, warps out. You have about 5 seconds to find it on you overview lock it (take 10-15 sec) and hold it in place with 1 75% web which in a gang means you will be still going 1500m/s+ after he slows down. Exactly the same as I said up there... Originally by: Andreya 5: the bubble should turn off when the dictor leaves grid? lol, why? its a probe, its a device that doesnt require any attachments to the ship, why should it matter if im 10km away or 10000km. Torps are unguided missiles they don't hit the target anymore, drones Yes, but torps and drones aren't PROBES...the interdiction sphere is a type of probe if I'm not mistaken, and probes work perfectly fine when you're not on grid. Originally by: Andreya I think all you cap pilots should realize this game isnt meant to be running around solo. if you want that, get a cruiser or smaller ship. since when in any tv show, game, movie, have you ever seen a 'carrier' or a 'mothership' un escorted? I guess you missed 90% of my posts as this isn't about caps, this is about dictors. Its about both Caps and Dictors, as you're whining that Supercaps are too easy to kill now that dictors can't be killed according to you, when that's just not the case...if you have the necessary support, you should be fine. That's the point a lot of people are trying to convey to you, the interdictor is the counter to supercaps, while interdictors have counters of their own...I'm sure I read somewhere up above that you only lost 2 out of 4 dictors in a 30-60 minutes battle, then CONGRATS TO YOU, you've learned how to keep the dictors alive, you've found another counter method...who would've guessed it
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.20 22:11:00 - [48] Edited by: Xeliya on 20/08/2007 22:12:39 Originally by: elaromwol Its about both Caps and Dictors, as you're whining that Supercaps are too easy to kill now that dictors can't be killed according to you, when that's just not the case...if you have the necessary support, you should be fine. That's the point a lot of people are trying to convey to you, the interdictor is the counter to supercaps, while interdictors have counters of their own...I'm sure I read somewhere up above that you only lost 2 out of 4 dictors in a 30-60 minutes battle, then CONGRATS TO YOU, you've learned how to keep the dictors alive, you've found another counter method...who would've guessed it No it's the fact I know people who have flown dictors for over a year and have never lost one due to them flying them how I described. I only lost one when I did fly them and as I think I said before already it was to hold a cap as it was before bubbles had a short cycle time. Yes you can keep dictors alive if you work as a team, so what is your point? That is how it should be . . . Why can't they stay on the field again? There's a camp of 20 hostiles on a gate close range we want to gank them but they will run when we come in, so dictor bubbles and jumps though with no risk, how is that right? The only risk he has is lag. A good example is when people used to use Titans regularly. You would cloak a dictor on a gate, hostiles jump in seeing there is no bubble. Dictor uncloaks, bubbles jumpes out and an entire fleet is dead without risking even a 10m isk ship.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.20 22:25:00 - [49] Did you miss the fact that dictor usually stays in the middle of his own bubble just after dropping it? Yes there is a way to evade it (warp, then drop bubble) but its up to CCP to FIX THEM so they stop ppl who initiated warp already.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.20 23:38:00 - [50] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Did you miss the fact that dictor usually stays in the middle of his own bubble just after dropping it? Yes there is a way to evade it (warp, then drop bubble) but its up to CCP to FIX THEM so they stop ppl who initiated warp already. Who knows that might change stuff a bit but most dictors can hit 5k per sec easy (with out gang bonus's) which means 4 sec they are out of the bubble and gone which is enough time for someone to click their name to start a lock. Or when it happens on a gate they can jump out.
8 D	Posted - 2007.08.21 00:45:00 - [51] bubbles are fine, destroyed if the dictor leaves grid?, terrible destroy the bubble by locking and shooting? can be looked into :)
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 01:00:00 - [52] Ever heard the term 'support fleet'? The idea is that the supercaps need to be traveling with a support fleet, if your taking it into a dangerous area you should bring enough support to fend off the dictors. Or just not go to the area in question. . Do not read this thread!!!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.21 01:04:00 - [53] Originally by: Xeliya Originally by: Deva Blackfire Did you miss the fact that dictor usually stays in the middle of his own bubble just after dropping it? Yes there is a way to evade it (warp, then drop bubble) but its up to CCP to FIX THEM so they stop ppl who initiated warp already. Who knows that might change stuff a bit but most dictors can hit 5k per sec easy (with out gang bonus's) which means 4 sec they are out of the bubble and gone which is enough time for someone to click their name to start a lock. Or when it happens on a gate they can jump out. Nano dictor (2x overdrive 2x polycarbon sabre - so quite expensive one) needs 5 seconds to get enough speed to warp out. So to get out of bubble he needs said 5 seconds, usually it is more. Thats PLENTY of time to get 1-2 points of him if you have tacklers who know what they are doing. Ofc then tacklers need to survive dictor's assault but most of the pilots are busy escaping not fighting back. Yes gate is a problem but noone orders yu to warp cap ships ON the gate. Not like it changes anything, even (as you stated) helps enemy keep em in one place. The most important fix to bubbles would be stopping warp after dropped IMO. Would work both ways tho: stop dictor AND those people who started warp... so hard decision if you really want this :)
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 02:48:00 - [54] Edited by: Valandril on 21/08/2007 02:48:42 Originally by: ghosttr Ever heard the term 'support fleet'? The idea is that the supercaps need to be traveling with a support fleet, if your taking it into a dangerous area you should bring enough support to fend off the dictors. Or just not go to the area in question. The idea is to that with 2 covopses u can just warpin dictor on top of enemy fleet, press warp and drop bubble instantly. "can't touch me" anyone ? So if dictor leave grid = bubble collapse imo, and it should drop aggression so he can't just drop bubble and jump tho gate. --- Battlecarriers !
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 03:59:00 - [55] Originally by: Valandril Edited by: Valandril on 21/08/2007 02:48:42 Originally by: ghosttr Ever heard the term 'support fleet'? The idea is that the supercaps need to be traveling with a support fleet, if your taking it into a dangerous area you should bring enough support to fend off the dictors. Or just not go to the area in question. The idea is to that with 2 covopses u can just warpin dictor on top of enemy fleet, press warp and drop bubble instantly. "can't touch me" anyone ? So if dictor leave grid = bubble collapse imo, and it should drop aggression so he can't just drop bubble and jump tho gate. Well they should be able to get away from certain doom, its not as if they are made to tank anything. But i think the bubble should be fixed so that work correctly so that the dicotr would need to bubble + mwd + warp. Not warp + bubble. . Do not read this thread!!!
MegabitOne Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2007.08.21 04:43:00 - [56] Every ship in Eve has an Achilles heel and a Cap Ship's is an interdictor bubble (or a normal one). So the OP is whining about not being able to keep his ship alive for a mere 2 minutes until the bubble wears off??? Or is he going in solo? Ever saw an aircraft carrier going into enemy territory solo? No? Why? Because they're vulnerable alone! Well, the same reasoning behind that may be the exact reason why you shouldn't operate a cap ship without a support fleet! And isn't it so that the wisest way to fight is use your opponents weapons against himself? What about dropping a few bubbles around said cap ship after warping/cynoing into the system to prevent your enemy coming too close with a dictor? Dictor needs to be closer than 4km to launch his bubble. As others said: use scouts! Oh, and after the 2 minutes which I'm sure a cap ship can survive, shouldn't there be a warm welcome for the dictor pilot who risks to warp to the cap ship again? I mean a fast locker should have a lock on a dictor in under a second, so if your fleet is any good he is maybe able to pop another bubble before he dies, but he won't come back for more . And no corp I know of has dozens of dictors as backup, certainly not in the early stages of a fight. And last but not least don't forget rule #1 in Eve: never ever fly a ship you're not prepared to loose! Dictors overpowered? I don't think so, to me it seems more like an underpowered mom pilot/fleet here --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway! -= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =-
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.21 06:03:00 - [57] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Yes gate is a problem but noone orders yu to warp cap ships ON the gate. Not like it changes anything, even (as you stated) helps enemy keep em in one place. Did I even say caps, it can be a small gate camp and you send in a tanked ship with dictor to get agression on everyone. Originally by: Deva Blackfire The most important fix to bubbles would be stopping warp after dropped IMO. Would work both ways tho: stop dictor AND those people who started warp... so hard decision if you really want this :) How so? This should have been fixed a while ago. I am sorry I am not "looking out for my intrests" as some people seem to think here. I just don't like seeing how easy it is to hold anything in place with a dictor if you keep warping in and back out. With this though they would defo need to stay on grid or fixed bumping physics otherwise it would be way to easy to hold someone there. Originally by: ghosttr Well they should be able to get away from certain doom, its not as if they are made to tank anything. But i think the bubble should be fixed so that work correctly so that the dicotr would need to bubble + mwd + warp. Not warp + bubble. Would be nice to see what this does as long as agression is applied to bubbles so you can't bubble a gate and jump out. Originally by: MegabitOne Every ship in Eve has an Achilles heel and a Cap Ship's is an interdictor bubble (or a normal one). So the OP is whining about not being able to keep his ship alive for a mere 2 minutes until the bubble wears off??? Mmmm most super caps go down in under 2 min if they are going to die. Originally by: MegabitOne Or is he going in solo? Ever saw an aircraft carrier going into enemy territory solo? No? Why? Because they're vulnerable alone! Well, the same reasoning behind that may be the exact reason why you shouldn't operate a cap ship without a support fleet! No and do you ever see caps soloing and living? If they are solo a dictor will have no problem keeping them there by himself. And if he can't he should go home. Originally by: MegabitOne And isn't it so that the wisest way to fight is use your opponents weapons against himself? What about dropping a few bubbles around said cap ship after warping/cynoing into the system to prevent your enemy coming too close with a dictor? Dictor needs to be closer than 4km to launch his bubble. ... 4km? Have you ever seen a bubble? They have a 20km Radious. That means I can drop a bubble 15km away and you have to fly 5km to leave it. Originally by: MegabitOne And last but not least don't forget rule #1 in Eve: never ever fly a ship you're not prepared to loose! ??? What does this have to do with this? I am talking about the little risk dictors have if flowen properley.
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.21 07:44:00 - [58] Edited by: Morris Falter on 21/08/2007 07:46:04 Xeliya, you're clearly very motivated about this issue, but I feel you've either not flown the ship very often, or are just looking at raw killboards without examining the fuller picture. Lets look at some facts: Sabre is not the fastest interdictor. Interceptors are faster than interdictors, by a long long way. Doing stupid things will get you killed. A little recap, from my personal experience of flying interdictors (over 230 kills and counting) almost exclusively for the last 3-4 months, of stupid things that people do. Warping to a gate without scanning it - especially inline in one way systems. Trying to chase down or escape rigged and and max nav skilled interdictors (costing 150m+ for starter setups, not including the months in specialised training) in basic setup interceptors (costing 10-15m for same starter setups), and then wondering why they died (an example is the 150+ interceptors that have been killed in the querious region over the last few weeks). Camping gates in easily bubbled stationary blobs, without tactically assessing the situation. Dictors bubbling their own gang (I think everyone has been there..) Supercapital support fleets not primarying interdictors. Not using Nos to empty cap on mwding and tackling interdictors, nor using the right class of drones to force them out. .... The list goes on. While you and your real life friends no doubt may have the skills to fly the ship, the skills to be effective in an interdictor take a long time to develop, and a very specific mentality, not to mention a strong suicidal streak. The interdictor is by no means perfect. Its bubbles do not interrupt warps in progress, its signature radius is too high, non-matari interdictors need a DPS buff, too few mid slots on the gallente interdictor, flycatcher too slow... Combat needs to be more dangerous, not less. Teamwork needs to be a factor in effective combat. People need to die if they are stupid, and win if they are smart. Skill should be rewarded, and ignorance punished. And finally, people need to learn from their mistakes, and not try and justify their screw up with an ignorant and toe-curling whine on the forums. edit: spellt iet riet noew
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 07:47:00 - [59] Edited by: Selnix on 21/08/2007 07:53:29 Why do people always want to ask for a nerf to a class of ship that literally takes months of training to fly? An frigate you can fly the first day of a trial account can prevent a carrier or dreadnaught from jumping out but someone using a ship that is infinitely more skill intensive being the only counter to a supercap seems to make people upset. There is nothing wrong with interdictor bubbles persisting when the interdictor leaves grid. The problems are with lack of aggression and ability of ships to enter warp inside the bubble. Interdictor bubbles should trigger an aggression timer just like a normal scrambler does (also counting toward the kill in the same way) thus preventing people from cloaking directly beneath or above a gate where they can just bubble and jump. If you are going to drop a bubble, you should be committed to being on the field for a bit. Given the price of the probes, the duration is more than short enough already. As I've been posting for months and months in threads on interdictors, they do not fulfill their stated role... "Interdictors are destroyer-sized vessels built to fill a single important tactical niche: the breaching of enemy warp tunnels." When is the last time you dropped a bubble between gates and it pulled an enemy out of warp? Answer being never because the bubble does not pull ships out of warp, it just prevents them from warping. If they would just go ahead and fix the bubbles so they stop warps that are already started, it would open up quite a few possibilities for combat away from the gates for once. As for being able to MWD off grid in a handfull of seconds and not get blown up, there are three interdictors that are an epic fail in that regard because of the increased signature radius from MWD and their lackluster speed barely being enough to outrun a T2 fitted rifter... As you said, you don't fly one of the other 75% of the interdictors. So if there is one ship that is head and shoulders better than anything else of its class and ships of several other classes, maybe that ship should be fixed for once instead of wondering why the class of that ship is supposedly overpowered. Edit: Morris posted while I was typing mine and I agree that a boost to the other three interdictors to put them in line with the Sabre would be very nice. While the Sabre can effectively engage lots of small ships solo, my Eris is a very epic failure in that department and my 200+ kills with it are mostly working with a gang. Will be nice to see how the Heretic turns out after the Khanid changes but judging from how it performs on the test server, it is still quite inferior to the Sabre.
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.21 08:08:00 - [60] Selnix, dictor probes do interrupt warp tunnels on exit grid, as long as they are in place before the target initiates warp - but as you say, it won't pull a target into a different grid to their exit mark, which would be fun and giggles, but no doubt slightly overpowered.
Drew Blaze	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:17:00 - [61] Edited by: Drew Blaze on 21/08/2007 14:17:50 Originally by: InnerDrive Originally by: Chi Quan it should be mentioned that MC has the most effective cap fleet in eve and is interested to keep it that way. btt: consider this: the 'dictor may be able to hold down a much bigger investment, but so can a tackeling frig. and like the frig, the interdictor has no means of dealing marginally adequate damage to his prey. I agree with this statement , this post is no more than MC crying about losing super caps :D Get some more numbers , get some more support instead of all flying caps :D Dictors are fine, in fact i think sabres are way overpriced. LoL, this statement is 100% true. I tried for so long to get into a MC corp and like so many others they deny everyone because MC thinks they are æGodsÆ. Funny thing is I am fighting against MC/FIX everyday and everyday I get more and more kills under my belt. Thanks for not letting me join a MC corp, now you reap the consequences. Ill make sure to use my dictor every chance I get since MC doesnÆt know how to stop this tactic. Everyone needs help/friends... even MC/FIX/BOB Oh and dictors I believe are just fine, like someone said its not the dictors that 'kill' you, its the support AROUND it. ___________________________ Secret Alt.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:57:00 - [62] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 21/08/2007 15:00:57 Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs Useless. Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?... (not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:06:00 - [63] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Did you miss the fact that dictor usually stays in the middle of his own bubble just after dropping it? Yes there is a way to evade it (warp, then drop bubble) but its up to CCP to FIX THEM so they stop ppl who initiated warp already. Actually, I'd trade bubbles going down whilst off grid, for my bubbles actually stopping someone who's pressed 'warp' already, but not left yet. Not that I think it's all that big a deal. Interceptors are pretty tough for dreadnoughts and carriers to hit, after all...
Lenaria Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:12:00 - [64] Edited by: Lenaria on 21/08/2007 17:13:53 A noobship with 10k warp scrambler can easely hold down carrier. So i have nothing against 30kk dictor holding down mothership. On the other hand, i will happely trade that for "capital warp disruptior" what can be installed on carriers and dreadnought with intention to scrambler motherships and titans. ==============================================
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:52:00 - [65] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs Useless. Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?... (not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...) Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations? Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.21 22:28:00 - [66] Originally by: James Lyrus Actually, I'd trade bubbles going down whilst off grid, for my bubbles actually stopping someone who's pressed 'warp' already, but not left yet. ^^ This. Originally by: Lenaria A noobship with 10k warp scrambler can easely hold down carrier. So i have nothing against 30kk dictor holding down mothership. And he has to stay on grid and put his ass on the line to hold him there. He can't warp off for 1m 30 sec and say hey bubbles gonna go down warp in again drop it and get out. Originally by: Bein Glorious Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs Useless. Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?... (not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...) Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations? Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know. 20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it. But for the 100th time since people can't read this is about the fact of dictors being able to bubble anything not just super cap, but fleets, etc and get out while everyone has fun not being able to warp to a 10m isk ship that doesn't even have to stay in the fight.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.21 22:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Xeliya 20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it. Because when flying dictor you have time to assess situation, move exactly behind mom and place perfect 11km off bubble. At this time even titan will lock it... Face it - bubbling is warp in-set orbit-drop-get out. If someone took his time to place bubble 11km BEHIND mom then i guess its well deserved that mom has problems. And you should fire your support pilots. Quote: But for the 100th time since people can't read this is about the fact of dictors being able to bubble anything not just super cap, but fleets, etc and get out while everyone has fun not being able to warp to a 10m isk ship that doesn't even have to stay in the fight. And for the 100th time: dictors force you to fight. Not run/logoffski etc. Also BOTH sides can use dictors. You are acting as if only one side used em and other didnt. If youy know enemy has dictors - put bubbles in advance so they fall into trap and lose theirs. But any decent pilot/FC who knows dictor capabilities should know how to trap and kill ones.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:17:00 - [68] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Because when flying dictor you have time to assess situation, move exactly behind mom and place perfect 11km off bubble. At this time even titan will lock it... Face it - bubbling is warp in-set orbit-drop-get out. If someone took his time to place bubble 11km BEHIND mom then i guess its well deserved that mom has problems. And you should fire your support pilots. Orbit at 9km + MWD = 11-12km and you can put them beside, above, under, behind as long as it isn't in front. I take about 5-10 sec to get a spot and be gone.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:19:00 - [69] Originally by: Xeliya 20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it. Get another, more mobile ship to smartbomb the bubble and save the mothership? It's not impossible. And we can talk about dictor bubbles disappearing after CCP lets you scramble fighters and keep them from disappearing instantly when the carrier recalls them, and not one moment sooner.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Bein Glorious Originally by: Xeliya 20km Bubble > 10km SB. Drop it 11km behind and it will take just under 2 min to get out for any capital if he doesn't hit anything. Will take the same time to turn around and pop it. Get another, more mobile ship to smartbomb the bubble and save the mothership? It's not impossible. And we can talk about dictor bubbles disappearing after CCP lets you scramble fighters and keep them from disappearing instantly when the carrier recalls them, and not one moment sooner. Hmmm touche! Also how was it? "when carrier/mom pilot logs off all fighters return to drone bay via in-built teleportation engines"?
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.22 00:11:00 - [71] Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 00:11:41 Originally by: Bein Glorious And we can talk about dictor bubbles disappearing after CCP lets you scramble fighters and keep them from disappearing instantly when the carrier recalls them, and not one moment sooner. If carriers get an option to keep fighters from warping then I see no issue. Right now having fighters warp is just a pain in the butt TBH as they never kill anyone. Donno why I keep feeding trolls about cap ships when this is about dictors . . .
MegabitOne Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2007.08.22 04:09:00 - [72] Originally by: Xeliya Originally by: MegabitOne And isn't it so that the wisest way to fight is use your opponents weapons against himself? What about dropping a few bubbles around said cap ship after warping/cynoing into the system to prevent your enemy coming too close with a dictor? Dictor needs to be closer than 4km to launch his bubble. ... 4km? Have you ever seen a bubble? They have a 20km Radious. That means I can drop a bubble 15km away and you have to fly 5km to leave it. Hmm, I mixed up the ranges of a small and a dictor bubble , but the idea stands: why not deploy some bubbles around the cap ship to catch interdictors in it? Of course those would have to be placed in such a way that an inwarping dictor doesn't get close enough to launch its own bubbles... --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway! -= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =-
Mr Krosis The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.22 06:47:00 - [73] Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 00:11:41 Donno why I keep feeding trolls about cap ships when this is about dictors . . . Because in the very first sentance of the very first post in this thread you say: Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:56:01 Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships. Indicating that your motive behind this "suggestion" is the fact that dictors can hold down supercapitals. You have also paint a pretty unrealistic picture of how "easy" it is to simply warp your dictor at exactly 11km from a target, drop a bubble and warp out before anyone has time to react. Assuming you do in fact have a warp target near the objective, you are going to be brought out of warp by the bubbles already on site. Those same bubbles are likely going to prevent you from initiating warping out before you drop your own bubble. Did you watch the video you posted? I think I saw up to 5 bubbles on the mothership at one point. Please don't insult everyones intelligence by telling us how easy it would be for a dictor to warp into that, drop a perfectly placed 11km bubble and warp out in all of 5 seconds. I've flown a dictor in a MS takedown. Yes I warped out and back in. No, its nowhere as easy as you make it out to be. You also seem to continually ignore the fact that your support fleet should decimate a dictor long before the supercapitals should ever even aquire a lock. Why do you point out how it will take your mothership 10-15 seconds to lock a dictor (another exageration; with even a single T2 sensor booster on a Nxy its less than 10 seconds to target even the smallest MWDing dictor) when it doesn't matter if the mothership locks it? A ceptor without a sensor booster should take no longer than 1 second to target a MWDing dictor. 75% webber? Why are your ceptors fitting basic tech1 webbers? Dictors are faster than ceptors? If you put as much into fitting both of them, we all know that isn't true. Supercapitals that die go down in less than 2 minutes anyway? False. Neither of the motherships IAC has killed this month went down in 2 minutes. The video you posted was also sped up about 10x, that fight lasted some 15-20 minutes. It would be easier to take your arguments seriously if you didn't so horribly overexagerate / make up almost every point you make. The entire original premise of your argument that dictors are the only things in game that can have an effect off grid is completely false. Dictor bubbles are designed to be deployed in space, and like every other deployable, they are persistant, but destroyable. If CCP wanted dictors to have to stay on site to have an effect they would have given us an interdiction module not a probe launcher. -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.22 07:00:00 - [74] Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 07:03:52 Originally by: Mr Krosis Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 22/08/2007 00:11:41 Donno why I keep feeding trolls about cap ships when this is about dictors . . . Because in the very first sentance of the very first post in this thread you say: Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:56:01 Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships. Indicating that your motive behind this "suggestion" is the fact that dictors can hold down supercapitals. Bolded the part everyone seems to ignore. The part about you should decimate dictors before a MS can get a lock which you say is 10 sec. That is laughable after watching that video, I'm sure you can guess why. Rest of it is not worth it anymore, same few people, same brick wall.
Trustus Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.22 08:05:00 - [75] Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 16/08/2007 17:56:01 Seeing how Dictors can hold down multi-billion isk ships that take months to build or entire fleets, they should have the same rules apply to them as other ships. If they leave the grid, the bubble should die. Covert Op's cannot scan and warp, a Battleship cannot shoot a target from another grid, Interceptors cannot tackle from another grid and gang bonus' are being changed to on grid only. It would also stop the warp a dictor to the gate, drop a bubble, jump though or warp a dictor in, start warp drop a bubble and your safe since you already started warp. They have a MWD it should be required if they want to drop that bubble. Seeing how Dictor pilots will probably flame me for this, I fly a Sabre and have 3 RL friends who do too. /Signed good point m8.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.08.22 11:48:00 - [76] Originally by: Bein Glorious Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Bein Glorious smartbombs Useless. Or, did you forget you cannot even activate when on top of 0.0 gates let alone Empire ones?... (not that the Empire ones are of concern to this specific topic - just a bugbear I have about them...) Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations? Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know. The OP isn't just about motherships... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Le Cook Amarr Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.22 12:31:00 - [77] Originally by: Wicke I totally agree with the OP. No ship in this game is able to do an offensive action and have that action continue when the ship in question has left the grid. Missiles disappear. Drones stop working. Did they change the figther drones ? I have never experianced it myself but i heard once they are commanded to attack a target they follow it into warp and keep attacking when the target comes out of warp ? So if CCP didnt change this yet, u are completly wrong. Because then the Carrier can. And pls stop this useless Diskussion, only because MC is afraid of loosing Cap-ships.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.22 12:38:00 - [78] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Did you forget that there are a near-infinite number of locations in every system besides gates and stations? Directly on top of a gate isn't the safest place for a mothership, you know. The OP isn't just about motherships... Put MWD on fleet battleships. Counter module seems to exist...
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.22 12:55:00 - [79] If something goes wrong, whine on forums, so it will get changed. Leaving grid, or warping inside of it - is the only way to not get killed by swarm of drones and 55km web.
Relyen Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.08.22 21:45:00 - [80] They should implement a new type of dictor bubble. One that is specifically designed to prevent Jump drives but doesn't prevent warp drives. And these bubbles should cost a significant amount more then standard bubbles. And have a few extra rules attached to them. Like the dictor needs to stay in a certain range or something for them to function.
Lexdon Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.23 03:56:00 - [81] Edited by: Lexdon on 23/08/2007 04:00:48 My supercap isnt invincible anymore! Maybe theres a solution eh? find one besides bugging devs.
CHAOS100 Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.08.23 09:40:00 - [82] seriously... what evil thug said. this whining is getting a bit too extreme. motherships aren't solo pwn mobiles (not as much as before)... you might need a support fleet to take out the dictors. dictors are a part of the game. they can bubble fleets, and they can bubble caps. deal with it. --------------
AbyssStalker Dread Fleet	Posted - 2007.08.23 12:01:00 - [83] There's nothing wrong with interdictors... Go cry nerf somewhere else. Besides their not all that powerful... my dictor got popped last nite almost instantly lol @%^$#& NOS Domi's!! I want those Nerfed too!!!!!
Mad Rage Amarr Dark Crystal Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.23 20:17:00 - [84] err interdictor over powered then why does it get pop in seconds lol my retribution is overpowered lol
Fray Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.24 16:26:00 - [85] Not to heap on the comedy but taken from todays patch notes: Interdictor warp disrupt probes will now prevent warp, even if the warp is already initiated. - <@Cf'DigitalCommunist> D2, if you go to za'ha'delve, you will die. -
Jehuty Vanricadia Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.24 16:54:00 - [86] So now that dictor bubbles are even more ball grabbing, how about giving us smartbombs that can actually kill them? The new changes have ****** super capitals so much now its a bit of a joke, we can all say they are over powered , etc, whine whine whine. Your going to say " just kill the interdictors " or maybe thats the thinking behind the change but with the current state of the servers this is impossible. At least before we could hit warp and keep the smarties running and hope that we get into warp, now its just a sitting duck. Give us something that we can use to kill the smartbombs rather than expecting us to slow boat 10km to get to the bubble in the horrendous lag, de-sync etc to pop it and then hopefully warp out again if you are NOT de-synced and popped.
MegabitOne Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2007.08.25 07:42:00 - [87] Originally by: Jehuty Vanricadia So now that dictor bubbles are even more ball grabbing, how about giving us smartbombs that can actually kill them? Err, you gave the answer to that one yourself, you just gotta let go of the 'smart' in smartbombs Bombs do 6400 damage, that should suffice to kill the lil' ****ies, right? Oh noes now you're gonna whine now about the 15s you have to wait before they explode! Or about the mere scratch marks on the paint of your MS? But maybe you could just let the dictor drop his bubble and then destroy it by using a bomb..... --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway! -= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =-
Di Jiensai Gallente Domination. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.25 10:45:00 - [88] come on, Are you serious? You are telling us here, that your support fleet cant kill one Interdictor durig the time it takes him to warp in, drop a buble, move out of its radius, and warp? Ok, granted, the fix for warping out of the buble instantly is in the next patch only, but is in there. So, can we consider that problem solved? The only thing still broken in that respect is extremely pimped highspeed dictors or ships in general. i can see that it might be a problem catching them.

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