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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.08.22 05:26:00 -
[1]
I suggest, that the number of sensor damps pointed on a ship reduce the stacking nerf of fitted sensor booster:
For example, you have fitted 3 sensor booster and somebody set 2 damps on you, only the third (3fitted-2damps=1 stacking nerfed) boost will be stacking nerfed with the first step of stacking (80something percent, cant remember the exact number atm).
This way, if you fit 3 t2 sensor damps and somebody set you up with 3 t2 damps, your scanning range will be calculated like this:
[Initial Locking Range]x1.6¦x0.4x(0.4/0.8?)x(0.4/0.5) which should be around 0.6x the initial locking range
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.22 05:56:00 -
[2]
You forgot to tell us why.
[ insert fancy sig here ] |
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.08.22 06:14:00 -
[3]
Well i assumed everybody know the unbalance of RSD on unbonused ships. Fighting over med to long range is already hard enough without RSD omnipresence.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.22 06:38:00 -
[4]
That's like one of the lamest ideas ever. Are you sure you're not a HippoKing alt or something?
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Janus Duo
Gallente
Psilocybin and Wine
Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.08.22 06:47:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Well i assumed everybody know the unbalance of RSD on unbonused ships. Fighting over med to long range is already hard enough without RSD omnipresence.
"Everyone" says this but after about half a year of pirating now I haven't seen a single damp on a non-bonused ship. Of course I run solo and avoid gangs of 5 or more, even more so if they have an ECM ship of some sort.
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 22/08/2007 07:03:00
Originally by: murder one
That's like one of the lamest ideas ever. Are you sure you're not a HippoKing alt or something?
Any more points than "it is lame" in your argumentation? Nope? Guessed so...
Its very easy to proof that RSD from unbonused ships is horrible:
Eagle warps in at 100 km to support his gang, 2 sensor booster on it (locking range 210km) now 2 UNBONUSED RSD hit him his locking range is down to 40km...
Add: Yes even without rigs...
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Lady Beauvoir
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lady Beauvoir on 22/08/2007 07:10:24
But the damp has an optimal range of 30 km and falloff of 60 km (where it is chance-based whether or not the damp has an effect). I don't really see an inbalance here: it's a very short range ECM module, the eagle sniping from 210 km shouldn't have enemies within 90 km (where the damp has 50% chance of having an effect in a ship without bonuses to damps) in the first place.
So, no.
I see damps as a rather balanced module:
If you are fitted for extremely close range, you need to keep your target there. If you are damped, it will take longer for you to lock and the target might escape, but when you lock, he's in a world of hurt.
If you setup for medium range (40-100km), the damps may or may not work on you. If they do, you are in trouble. If they don't, he's toast.
If you are a sniper, you fail by letting the damping ship close to you in the first place.
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:11:00 -
[8]
45km optimal + 90km with skills...
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:14:00 -
[9]
So reduce damp amount per damp slightly, and increase the damp bonus on damp ships so that their effectiveness remains unchanged, and you're done.
Your idea is crap because it affects not only unbonused RSDs but also those of damp ships.
Damps don't need a nerf when used by damp ships. If you're going to edit game design elements in order to correct an imbalance that is limited to a particular ship class (non specialized ships using damps), then limit the change to that type of ship, not all damp ships.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Lady Beauvoir
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:17:00 -
[10]
Yes, with perfect skills - if you've trained EWAR skills to the max, it's supposed to be effective, yes? Still, the same rule applies: either stay close or far away. The same rule applies to almost everything, by the way: small guns, large guns, smartbombs, whatever.
...and if damps seem overpowered, fit one in your ship as well. ECM ships should be damped anyhow. Fight fire with fire and all that.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:20:00 -
[11]
Although i would have put it slightly more eloquent, i agree with murder one. Dampenersshould get the same treatment as ECM, nerf there general effectiveness by, say, 25%, and increase the '+5% per level' bonus of damp ships to '+7.5%'.
Still useful, not as overpowered.
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: murder one
So reduce damp amount per damp slightly, and increase the damp bonus on damp ships so that their effectiveness remains unchanged, and you're done.
Your idea is crap because it affects not only unbonused RSDs but also those of damp ships.
Damps don't need a nerf when used by damp ships. If you're going to edit game design elements in order to correct an imbalance that is limited to a particular ship class (non specialized ships using damps), then limit the change to that type of ship, not all damp ships.
So you say ECCM should be ineffective against Rook/Falcon/Scorpion as well?
Originally by: Lady Beauvoir
Yes, with perfect skills - if you've trained EWAR skills to the max, it's supposed to be effective, yes? Still, the same rule applies: either stay close or far away. The same rule applies to almost everything, by the way: small guns, large guns, smartbombs, whatever.
...and if damps seem overpowered, fit one in your ship as well. ECM ships should be damped anyhow. Fight fire with fire and all that.
EWAR should be THAT effective on an unbonused ship thats why they nerfed ECM.. And can you show me a way to jump in a fight at over 100km without prepared bookmarks?
The problem with sensor damps is, you can scatter them over the whole gang, most pvp gangships have at least 1 slot left, what do you put in? Of course a sensor damp. Because 2 people damping one ship works perfect, while use ECM takes a dedicated ship which can be put out of fight very easy because its only a single ship and will be spotted really easy.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:28:00 -
[13]
Sensor boosters are not ineffective against damps. They stack positively, where damps stack negatively, and you can only have four damps on a target before the additional damp does literally nothing anyway.
It takes *four* damps to take a target out of the fight unless it gets fairly close to a target. Even then with four damps on a target, you can still target out to 20km if you have enough lock range.
So anyway, sensor boosters are fine. Why not just reduce RSD effectiveness a bit and increase the damp bonus for damp ships?
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:36:00 -
[14]
Could you show me the ships that can target above 20km after getting hit by 4 RSD from an unbonused ship? Even a rook with a 2 sensor boost (theoretically able to lock at above 300km) will get below 50km range.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.22 07:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: murder one
Sensor boosters are not ineffective against damps. They stack positively, where damps stack negatively, and you can only have four damps on a target before the additional damp does literally nothing anyway.
It takes *four* damps to take a target out of the fight unless it gets fairly close to a target. Even then with four damps on a target, you can still target out to 20km if you have enough lock range.
So anyway, sensor boosters are fine. Why not just reduce RSD effectiveness a bit and increase the damp bonus for damp ships?
Not quite true. Sinde booster effect is positive and dampener effect is negative, dampeners are alot more powerful.
Example:
T2 sensorbooster +60%
T2 dampener with spec skill 4 and one (10M ISK) damp rig: -60.22%
1.60 * 0.3978 = 0,63
Say you have two, and the target has two..
Boosters
1.6 * (1+(6*.87)) = 2,4352
Damps:
.3978 * ( 1 - (60.22 * .87)) = 0,189
So the 2x boosters increases your lockrange by almost *2.5, while the dampeners reduce is by /5, resulting in just under half your original locking range/speed, and mind you, this is on an unbonused ship with only one rig. A celestis or arazu/lachesis can reach up to 78% damp strength as far as i know.
Now many damp setups have 2, very often 3 dampeners. How much pvp setups have more than 1 sensorbooster, not counting fleet setups?
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Timbershiverer
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Posted - 2007.08.22 09:16:00 -
[16]
Damps are fine. They have a huge weakness which more than balances them - range. If you've ever tried camping a gate at close range or jumping into a gate camp that's at close range you'll know how useless they become.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.22 10:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Could you show me the ships that can target above 20km after getting hit by 4 RSD from an unbonused ship? Even a rook with a 2 sensor boost (theoretically able to lock at above 300km) will get below 50km range.
None. You can target at just under 19km if you can lock at the max range of 250km (artificial cap, not 'true' lock range) if you have 4x damps on you, and those damps are at 68%+ effectiveness. Which is just fine.
That is the lock range of a carrier when damped by 4x damps from a Lachesis/Arazu with all skills at L4. There is nothing wrong with that performance.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Goldis
Caldari
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.22 10:22:00 -
[18]
Well, the best nerf for dampeners is already out there. None of us undocks with less than 3 of them on, so...
----
De Gustibus et Coloribus non disputandum est.
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J Darkh
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:19:00 -
[19]
How is this for an idea?
Stop nerfing ****!!! Learn to play goddamnit!!!
Yeah it's an alt.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:38:00 -
[20]
like ecm you mean -50% and then double the bonus to give a result that needs modules and rigs to make as usefull as before 
I still believe the ecm nerf should be used as a model for sensor dampeners... IMO a 150km lockrange should not go under 30km with 3 fully skilled non-bonused T2 dampeners.
Most of the effect should be the increased locktime and not breaking locks without chance of getting a new unless you mwd very very close and then spend a million years locking someone
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I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
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