Originally by: BhallSpawn

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Edited by: BhallSpawn on 24/08/2007 03:09:34
Edited by: BhallSpawn on 24/08/2007 03:09:01
As most inteligent people know the raven gets owned in most 1v1 situations.
Aside from electronic warfare, the raven just doesn't have the DPS the mega\geddon\apoc\etc have.

So what are missle specd bs pilots to do in pvp?

Nothing.

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Originally by: Steini OFSI

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The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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what was the most seen ship in the alliance tournament?

nouf said.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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...Advantage of the raven is... ...good DPS at any range.

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Originally by: Scorpyn

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Edited by: Scorpyn on 24/08/2007 09:41:02

Originally by: Sokratesz

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...Advantage of the raven is... ...good DPS at any range.

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What are you smoking and can I have some?

If you go long range, the target is either dead or has warped off before the missiles hit (if you're using it in a group of turret ships).

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Originally by: Scorpyn

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Edited by: Scorpyn on 24/08/2007 09:41:02

Originally by: Sokratesz

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...Advantage of the raven is... ...good DPS at any range.

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What are you smoking and can I have some?

If you go long range, the target is either dead or has warped off before the missiles hit (if you're using it in a group of turret ships).

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Try hitting something with blasters at 2.5km, then 5, 10, 25, 50. Then try the same with autocannons and pulse lasers.

Cruise missiles can be made to go 10km/s quite easily and deal 5 - 600DPS. Torpedoes can go 3km/s without too much hassle, add 25-ish% DPS for those. Now, give me another ship that can deal that kind of damage at such variable ranges without having direct tracking issues, then tell me what youve been on.

Now in fleets, d'oh, they aren't of much use. No need to flame me for that as i'm perfectly aware of it. In small/med gangs, they pwn.

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Originally by: Amantus

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Yeah, Fleshdiver proves that ravens work in PvP.

Besides, on Sisi , caldari BS seem to be used often and pretty effectively. Sure, a domi or mega may be more preferable (although passive tanked caldari ships are a pain in the butt for my domi) but caldari don't seem to be as terrible as people say.

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Originally by: RtoZ

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I think part of the issue here is since caldari is such a large part of the population you have a lot of novice pvp players adapting their pve setups for pvp. Sure, they won't win any awards. That said I can see plenty of ways to use a raven to good effect, and if solo was the idea, I would armour tank it has been suggested. It has 5 lows so a decent armour tank can be achieved and with 6 meds you can fit a hell of a lot of pvp modules to compensate for the lack of damange and shield tank, not to mention reinforce the powergrid at the same time.

I'm not a pvp'er 99% of the time, but if I had slightly better mechanic skills I would fit a siege raven, neut, drone link extender, painter, web, scrambler, sensor booster, cap injector and a sensor damp; in the lows a damage control and a 4 module armour tank and see how it goes. I might rig it for armour too and ofc it would carry 5 med drones and 5 lights, t2. I'm sure most of you would make short work of it, but would'nt some of you have problems vrs such a setup 1v1?

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Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

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1: Don't fly solo
2: Don't fly solo
3: ???
4: Profit

If you insist on ignoring points 1 and 2 you can fly a blaster-Rokh or a damp+ecm Scorp.

All ships have issues solo, shield tankers simply feel it the most. Add a buddy or two and you'll find Caldari ships are excellent for gang warfare. Missile users may have less DPS than turret users but you can apply that DPS constantly, once one target dies you can switch immediately to the next, the turret pilot has to move back into his ideal range which is not always that easy with opposing tacklers around.

Compare this to Gallente ships, who face the major issue of running out of drones or cap charges or simply getting tackled out of range. They certainly excel in short 1v1 fights but I don't play in a cluster where "fair" and "honorable" duels are all that common.

Picture a blasterboat tackled more than 25km from your Raven, how much DPS is he going to be putting on you or the Crow pilot tackling him?

Reverse the advantage, how much DPS is railboat going to put on a blasterboat at 0-10km... almost none, whereas the missileboat will still be dealing respectable capfree damage against the typically paper-thin tank of most gank fitted ships.

If of course you try to use a Caldari ship too far outside of it's role (where I hasten to add they excel) then of course it will perform poorly.

It's not the ships fault your doing it wrong.

[I must alter points 1 and 2, don't solo and cry about it on the forums when you get beaten down. Solo is fun but it's not a matter for balance discussion. I'm willing to accept arguments for anything above solo, even 2v2, where ships can complement each others weaknesses and exploit their opponents far better. But 1v1 individual ships weak points will always shine through.]

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Originally by: SteeleResolve

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What the OP wants is a raven that acts like a megathron/dominix.

Its just one of those things I'm afraid. Caldari is god of PvE. If you aren't happy with it just train another race. No offence meant btw.

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Originally by: Kylar Renpurs

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while a cruise-missle fitted raven is good for taking down inties

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Originally by: UGWidowmaker

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LOL the raven is so damn ower powered allready. i hounestly think its the only ship people do misions in and rat in... its VERY rare i see amarr ships as ratters choise. or minmitars for that matter.

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Originally by: Rinaldo Titano

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And a good fitted raven with faction torps can do easy over 700dps.
So an EW raven is a very mighty pvpship.

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Originally by: Tommy TenKreds

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Try a passive tanked Drake, Nighthawk or Rattlesnake - you can free up two mid slots on each without totally killing the tank.

Edit: Sorry, you did ask specifically about BS.. well only the Rattler/Raven atm - the Rattler has the theoretical edge for pvp IMO (although I have only flown one in PVE ).

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Originally by: Patch86

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Firstly: Caldari > everyone at PvE. By a wide margin.

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Originally by: CCCP lalalalalla

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Gallente beat caldari and ammar quite easy, because ammar does em damage against an omni tank and caldari cant tackle and sucks in general. Minimatar is easy mode for pvp, if you are afraid to commit to a fight and run whnever you choose minimatar as your race. Minimatar is like free stabs, you will always have enough stabs in a 1v1 to run. If they send ten after you, you might get worried about their rapier(another minnie ship)! lol. Minnie easy mode for pvp, caldari easy mode for pve(because you can do it afk somewhat).

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Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

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1: Don't fly solo
2: Don't fly solo
3: ???
4: Profit

If you insist on ignoring points 1 and 2 you can fly a blaster-Rokh or a damp+ecm Scorp.

All ships have issues solo, shield tankers simply feel it the most. Add a buddy or two and you'll find Caldari ships are excellent for gang warfare. Missile users may have less DPS than turret users but you can apply that DPS constantly, once one target dies you can switch immediately to the next, the turret pilot has to move back into his ideal range which is not always that easy with opposing tacklers around.

Compare this to Gallente ships, who face the major issue of running out of drones or cap charges or simply getting tackled out of range. They certainly excel in short 1v1 fights but I don't play in a cluster where "fair" and "honorable" duels are all that common.

Picture a blasterboat tackled more than 25km from your Raven, how much DPS is he going to be putting on you or the Crow pilot tackling him?

Reverse the advantage, how much DPS is railboat going to put on a blasterboat at 0-10km... almost none, whereas the missileboat will still be dealing respectable capfree damage against the typically paper-thin tank of most gank fitted ships.

If of course you try to use a Caldari ship too far outside of it's role (where I hasten to add they excel) then of course it will perform poorly.

It's not the ships fault your doing it wrong.

[I must alter points 1 and 2, don't solo and cry about it on the forums when you get beaten down. Solo is fun but it's not a matter for balance discussion. I'm willing to accept arguments for anything above solo, even 2v2, where ships can complement each others weaknesses and exploit their opponents far better. But 1v1 individual ships weak points will always shine through.]

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Originally by: Blood Cultist

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Edited by: Blood Cultist on 24/08/2007 05:22:06
Which would you rather have in your gang, a Mega or a Raven? A Drake or a Myrm? A Ferox or a Brutix? A Moa or a Thorax?

I know what I would chose.

ECM ships are borderline fine, they're still effective but now paper thin.

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Originally by: Seleene

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It seems to me that 'independence' is a relative term these days, determined mainly by the size and number of your guns.

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Originally by: BhallSpawn

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Edited by: BhallSpawn on 24/08/2007 03:09:34
Edited by: BhallSpawn on 24/08/2007 03:09:01
As most inteligent people know the raven gets owned in most 1v1 situations.
Aside from electronic warfare, the raven just doesn't have the DPS the mega\geddon\apoc\etc have.

So what are missle specd bs pilots to do in pvp?

Nothing.

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