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Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:44:00 - [91] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/08/2007 09:45:10 Originally by: Neena Valdi Vagas do have a tank, actually. You mean shield extenders? Thats not really a tank to me, unless combined with rechargers to make it a passive tank. But you cant do that on a Vaga really...not if you want speed and damage. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:08:00 - [92] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/08/2007 09:45:10 Originally by: Neena Valdi Vagas do have a tank, actually. You mean shield extenders? Thats not really a tank to me, unless combined with rechargers to make it a passive tank. But you cant do that on a Vaga really...not if you want speed and damage. The fact is most Vaga setups have extenders and stay in falloff to do damage. Same with the Ishtar. The Deimos can't tank if its fit for speed, and it still has to come deep into web range so its GOING to be hit and its GOING to die. The only way i can see the deimos fit for speed is either rails or some half tank half nano fit, which means it wont be that fast. Any pure nano setup is just going to die or its going to have a very limited amount of targets. I think thats why it got such a large boost to speed, because its pointless to use a nano fit. Rabblerabble -Sahwoolo
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:29:00 - [93] You are forgeting the fact that overloading the meds gives you 13km to the webb and 50% speed boost bonus to the MWD. Vagabond will not keep his MWD always on because it's cap is very very small and it also needs that for the Warp Disruptor. Add the 13km webb to the 3km/s it will do not nano-ed with the MWD and yes, it can catch it unless the Vaga pilot is very very carefull and has split reflexes to compensate and activate the MWD. I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :)
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.28 14:04:00 - [94] Originally by: Setana Manoro You are forgeting the fact that overloading the meds gives you 13km to the webb and 50% speed boost bonus to the MWD. Vagabond will not keep his MWD always on because it's cap is very very small and it also needs that for the Warp Disruptor. Add the 13km webb to the 3km/s it will do not nano-ed with the MWD and yes, it can catch it unless the Vaga pilot is very very carefull and has split reflexes to compensate and activate the MWD. So if you are careful with overloading your medslots, you can catch a ship that doesn't overload his modules and has a very specific fitting.... Yes you're right, this will make the deimos very very overpowered.... And you're forgetting that the mwd is THE only thing that a extended vaga needs to use it's cap for!!!! And a warp disruptor, but that's the same on both sides if they wanna kill someone so that doesn't really play a role.
Redora Gallente Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 14:18:00 - [95] Originally by: Setana Manoro Originally by: Durethia I find it odd, that before the changes everyone and their mother was laughing at the Deimos. Well, now that the Deimos was given some attention, all of a sudden it's overpowered? To my knowledge, the only thing the Deimos got was what it should have had long ago; and what we Deimos pilots have been begging for since the beginning--more powergrid, faster/agile. It's not like it's damage was increased, unlike for Amarr ships with improved tracking for Medium lasers.... Everybody was laughing at the Deimos before the changes. Deimos needed a change, but the increased speed is just too much. The decreased mass is an incentive to use the MWD, if the Deimos actually needed one. And the drone bay can serve as a tank, a EW tank. You can use med nos drones to drain your ompponent, you can use ECM drones to even jam a tier 1 BS. What makes this even worse is that it is a gang and gank ship, that doesn't need to sacrifice anything to get close to nano fit speed. Don't bring up Deimos pilots begging. It's ... disgusting. Compared to the other ships that actually needed a boost like there is no tomorrow, Eagle, Zealot, Muninn the Deimos got spoiled and got spoiled because of the 100 page thread full of whines. Oh, and it's damage was increased, actually twice with this thread. Now it can get into range faster and as the chaser has the advantage of overloading meds to catch the prey, and with the PG upgrade with 1-2 Ancillary Current Router rigs it can now mount Neutrons instead of Ions. So yeah, it's damage was increased. Not to mention that the Pulse tracking increase was a overall boost for the amarr race and not aimed at one ship specifically. If you feel that Amarr is overpowered, train for their ships only level 5's and see how nice it is. :) .... Does the Deimos get 158.4dps from it's rack of Hammerhead II's? Or does it have an EWAR tank? Can't have both at the same time. --- Redora http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=543553
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:32:00 - [96] ccp just blows my mind soemtimes with the things they buff..... Sure deimos may have had problems but how many uber combat ships does gallente already have..... there priorities are a bit off. Well gallente whiners win out again
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:33:00 - [97] Nano? ---
LeMoose The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.28 18:09:00 - [98] Originally by: Jin Entres Nano? wow that one will die fast Caldari ships \| PVP \| Success \| Solo (Pick 3)
SkyEstaLimit	Posted - 2007.08.28 18:13:00 - [99] Originally by: LeMoose Originally by: Jin Entres Nano? wow that one will die fast That one won't hit crap.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.28 18:32:00 - [100] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/08/2007 18:33:02 Originally by: SkyEstaLimit Originally by: LeMoose Originally by: Jin Entres Nano? wow that one will die fast That one won't hit crap. Its actually true... you CAN fly a deimos like a Vaga, but the Vaga should hit for more damage from 15k-20k range (which is where you want to be to avoid webbing). Im not sure of the drone bay of the deimos though... maybe 5 medium drones will help quite a bit with the dps, compared to the 5 lights of the Vaga. Too lazy to run it in a spreadsheet since I dont really care enough. :) --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:00:00 - [101] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/08/2007 18:33:02 Originally by: SkyEstaLimit Originally by: LeMoose Originally by: Jin Entres Nano? wow that one will die fast That one won't hit crap. Its actually true... you CAN fly a deimos like a Vaga, but the Vaga should hit for more damage from 15k-20k range (which is where you want to be to avoid webbing). Im not sure of the drone bay of the deimos though... maybe 5 medium drones will help quite a bit with the dps, compared to the 5 lights of the Vaga. Too lazy to run it in a spreadsheet since I dont really care enough. :) Aiming to be equal to vaga is unnaturally optimistic. Let's start with being useful (which the Deimos has not been). You could always fit neutrons and null for similar range to vaga, but I opted for longer range this time. What it can offer instead is up to 45km of range with just AM. It can also make use of Spike for longer range which it can achieve and maintain with ease. So it's more like a nano Muninn really. And it's clearly gang-oriented due to only having 3 mids. Because it doesn't have a scrambler, it doesn't need to stay around 20km anyway, so it can safely maintain more range where it can track better. I'll have to try the blaster version which might really be more viable. But hey, even this much capability is more than it used to have. ---
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:19:00 - [102] And here be the blaster variant for ye. Guns' DPS is about 434 with Null. 5 Valkyrie II's 150 or so? It has less of a tank, less speed and guns use cap compared to the vaga, though, but it pushes more damage (and it's a bloody Deimos ). ---
Andre Ricard Gallente Templars of Space Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Jin Entres Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/08/2007 18:33:02 Originally by: SkyEstaLimit Originally by: LeMoose Originally by: Jin Entres Nano? wow that one will die fast That one won't hit crap. Its actually true... you CAN fly a deimos like a Vaga, but the Vaga should hit for more damage from 15k-20k range (which is where you want to be to avoid webbing). Im not sure of the drone bay of the deimos though... maybe 5 medium drones will help quite a bit with the dps, compared to the 5 lights of the Vaga. Too lazy to run it in a spreadsheet since I dont really care enough. :) Aiming to be equal to vaga is unnaturally optimistic. Let's start with being useful (which the Deimos has not been). You could always fit neutrons and null for similar range to vaga, but I opted for longer range this time. What it can offer instead is up to 45km of range with just AM. It can also make use of Spike for longer range which it can achieve and maintain with ease. So it's more like a nano Muninn really. And it's clearly gang-oriented due to only having 3 mids. Because it doesn't have a scrambler, it doesn't need to stay around 20km anyway, so it can safely maintain more range where it can track better. I'll have to try the blaster version which might really be more viable. But hey, even this much capability is more than it used to have. did the eagle/sabre just lose thier spot for the Ultimate Frig poppers?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:32:00 - [104] Originally by: Jin Entres And here be the blaster variant for ye. Guns' DPS is about 434 with Null. 5 Valkyrie II's 150 or so? It has less of a tank, less speed and guns use cap compared to the vaga, though, but it pushes more damage (and it's a bloody Deimos ). Yeah... shame I cant fly it, I would love to take it out for a spin and compare it to the Vaga myself in how it feels. I think ill eventually start training into gallente a bit though. Too many good ships to pass up. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Durethia Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.08.28 22:34:00 - [105] Originally by: Setana Manoro Everybody was laughing at the Deimos before the changes. Deimos needed a change, but the increased speed is just too much. Wrong. The increased speed was required, because the inability for the Deimos to dictate range was primary reason why it died to most other HACs. Blaster boats are supposed to be fast... and it was slower than it's T1 counterpart; when it should be faster and more agile. Originally by: Setana Manoro The decreased mass is an incentive to use the MWD, if the Deimos actually needed one. Wrong again. The MWD bonus is incentive to fit and use a MWD, the fact it's a blaster boat insists on an MWD. Originally by: Setana Manoro And the drone bay can serve as a tank, a EW tank. You can use med nos drones to drain your ompponent, you can use ECM drones to even jam a tier 1 BS. Any drone bay can be used as such, and there's a drone bay on the Vagabond... Originally by: Setana Manoro What makes this even worse is that it is a gang and gank ship, that doesn't need to sacrifice anything to get close to nano fit speed. It used to be a gang ship, because of it being so handicapped before the buff. It was very difficult to solo with it, because if it couldn't catch a victim, it couldn't run away either. Originally by: Setana Manoro Don't bring up Deimos pilots begging. It's ... disgusting. Compared to the other ships that actually needed a boost like there is no tomorrow, Eagle, Zealot, Muninn the Deimos got spoiled and got spoiled because of the 100 page thread full of whines. Are you angry, because now when you see a Deimos it isn't a garunteed shiny trophy on your killboard? That you might die should you get too close to it? Was is it, few whine about the near invincibility of a Vagabond? I'll tell you why, it does what it's supposed to, and well. The Deimos should be dangerous up close, it's a T2 blaster boat... Just like the Eagle does well as a sniping platform. Originally by: Setana Manoro Oh, and it's damage was increased, actually twice with this thread. Now it can get into range faster and as the chaser has the advantage of overloading meds to catch the prey, and with the PG upgrade with 1-2 Ancillary Current Router rigs it can now mount Neutrons instead of Ions. So yeah, it's damage was increased. It being able to close distance is inherent to the concept of a close range weapon system. And I have excellent cap skills (most are level 5) for any modules fitted to my HACs, webber, turrets et al. And running Neutron Blasters on a Deimos is seriously a gank fit. If the Neutron Deimos can't kill the target soon... then the Deimos (regardless of it's speed) will likely die relatively quick. The amount of cap required to fire the Neutron Blasters far eclipse the cap requirements for using the Ion Blasters. On my Ion Deimos, I can run everything, MWD, Medium Repper, webber and all Ion Blasters pretty much indefinately. With Neutrons... running all active modules won't very last long. The Deimos is where it needs to be. It's a "quick" ship, to accomodate it's blasters. It isn't faster than the Vagabond, it doesn't tank like the Sacrilege, it doesn't have the range of an Eagle, doesn't have the alpha strike of a Munin, doesn't have the variety and consistancy of a Cerberus and it doesn't have the versatility of the Ishtar and it isn't sufficient for medium range combat like the Zealot. The Deimos, is a close range blaster boat and it's supposed to hurt if to close to it.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.29 06:11:00 - [106] Jin just tell us the truth! Your mothership is also nano'ed?
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.29 07:48:00 - [107] Nice post Durethia... god I wish I could log in now... so desperatly wanna try her out.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:12:00 - [108] Originally by: Neena Valdi Jin just tell us the truth! Your mothership is also nano'ed? I can not divulge that information. ---
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:13:00 - [109] Originally by: Durethia stuff durethia swings his common sense bat for "Iwinthisthread" damage. indeed that's the whole reasoning of the deimos: a quick ship designed to pour the most damage in the shortest amount of time at short range. useless on ranges beyond 15km (in blaster configs... altho rail configs are not that good anyways..), but if you enter in his web range, you better be prepared. --- truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players" Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
MInvarn	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:27:00 - [110] You can NPC with it now too: 5x Heavy Neut IIs 1x salvager/Proto Cloak 1x AB II 1x web II 1x Cap II 1x MAR II 1x kinetic II 1x Thermic II 1x EAN II 1x CPR II 1x Mag Stab II 1x CCC rig, 1x Aux Nano Pump (Or thermic pump, same difference really) 5x hammer IIs 94.3% resist to Kenetic, 88.6% resist to Thermic (higher if you used a thermic pump) Dishes out over 550DPS, Take THAT Serps. Used to not be able to fit without compromising eaither guns or AB or MAR (and then you needed Advaned Wep Up 5) Should go close to 600m/s Yeah, yeah I know: "HAC To NPC? Why?" well, at the speed this sucker can rip through 0.0 spawns, it seems wrong to not use it.
Andre Ricard Gallente Templars of Space Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:17:00 - [111] Originally by: MInvarn You can NPC with it now too: 5x Heavy Neut IIs 1x salvager/Proto Cloak 1x AB II 1x web II 1x Cap II 1x MAR II 1x kinetic II 1x Thermic II 1x EAN II 1x CPR II 1x Mag Stab II 1x CCC rig, 1x Aux Nano Pump (Or thermic pump, same difference really) 5x hammer IIs 94.3% resist to Kenetic, 88.6% resist to Thermic (higher if you used a thermic pump) Dishes out over 550DPS, Take THAT Serps. Used to not be able to fit without compromising eaither guns or AB or MAR (and then you needed Advaned Wep Up 5) Should go close to 600m/s Yeah, yeah I know: "HAC To NPC? Why?" well, at the speed this sucker can rip through 0.0 spawns, it seems wrong to not use it. Deimos with only 1 mag stab and no MWD makes me cry. for gruistas i use 5 heavy Neut II 1 small nos 1MWD, 1 Cap II, 1 web. 1SAR, 1 KIN hard, 1 Damage control. 3 mag stabs. 5 vespa II Can chew through 1.85m battleships in about 30-45 seconds. infact, i can kill the whole spawn without even turning the repper on, if my shield is at 100% i can kill most spawns before i even get into armor.
Malena Panic Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.29 16:34:00 - [112] Originally by: Setana Manoro The fact that it can do all types of damage - drone bay with hammerheads II means 200 dps just there How are you getting 40 dps out of a drone? Is there a drone damage implant I don't know about?

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