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Motherships in empire.... Why??

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Highpriest Aden	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:16:00 - [1] I see 2 motherships in a .4 system nighboursystem to nonni. I have nothing against piracy, hence it's a part of the game, and have always been. What I dont understand is why a MS "that cant be scrambeld" can enter a lowsec system? Even if my corp had 20 dreads, and wantet to pop it, we couldent keep the ms down.. it would just laugh, wait alittle, and jump out. the only way to kill it is to get it agroed,and then take away it's cap, jump in the firepower and pop it. Wish us good luck! It should be nerfed. If it was ordenary carriers they were sitting in, kool. we could assemble a force, and do some PVP'ing, but no way against a MS! Titans and motherships I belive should be a 0.0 thingie, since they can only be build outthere. I look forward to the next patch!
PMolkenthin Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:18:00 - [2] True, but not many people have a mothership do they?
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:21:00 - [3] Originally by: PMolkenthin True, but not many people have a mothership do they? The ship being expensive should not mean having a license to kill anything you want with total impunity in low-sec.
Highpriest Aden	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:25:00 - [4] Nope, you'r correkt on that. but can you explain me why a MS should be allowed to camp a .4 system, since it's soo friggin hard to kill? I surely cant see it, but I'm open for people with a intensive insight on the proplem. I saw a aron and a nyx there yesterday, and those 2 with faction smarties, naaaa. not much can come throw. IMO the MS and titan should be 0.0 only, they are way to overpowerd in empire. I know how hard it is to kill a ms in 0.0 It's impossible in empire
T'X	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:46:00 - [5] Same reason why high levels camp other people in other games. They're bored and want some fun. Nothing more satisfying that popping noobs in lowsec in a mothership ^^ Then again, you get popped by a ship that takes a minute to lock ;) Originally by: thiasman Ten Ways to die in EVE: Originally by: Hamfast Undock...
Draoidh Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:06:00 - [6] "can you explain me why a MS should be allowed to camp a .4 system, since it's soo friggin hard to kill?" I still do not understand why not. I am sorry but this thread is really just a whine about "I want to kill it but cant". If you dont like it camping the system then get your corp to warp in and force it to jump out. If your corp is not strong enough, too bad. Complaining about not being able to take out one of the most powerful ships in the game is just lame. ==D
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Draoidh "can you explain me why a MS should be allowed to camp a .4 system, since it's soo friggin hard to kill?" I still do not understand why not. I am sorry but this thread is really just a whine about "I want to kill it but cant". If you dont like it camping the system then get your corp to warp in and force it to jump out. If your corp is not strong enough, too bad. Complaining about not being able to take out one of the most powerful ships in the game is just lame. ==D 'Powerful' and 'Expensive' should NEVER EVER EVER equal 'invincible', and that's what a mothership in lowsec is.
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:08:00 - [8] The thing is; its just a matter of time before EVERY pirate corp have a mothership or two on almost every gate in low sec. A long time ago cruisers were big and badass, then as skills progressed battleships became standard, now we are in a transition to using carriers. In a year we will see ALOT of motherships, i can promise you that. -----====----- Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Securion Wolfheart The thing is; its just a matter of time before EVERY pirate corp have a mothership or two on almost every gate in low sec. A long time ago cruisers were big and badass, then as skills progressed battleships became standard, now we are in a transition to using carriers. In a year we will see ALOT of motherships, i can promise you that. Thing is, a cruiser is easy to take down - with a cruiser or two. Now, try taking down a mothership, Ill give you 15 motherships to try and gank it with. It is more or less impossible right now. Postcount: 176744
JitaTradeManager	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:21:00 - [10] Get a Fleet of neut domis....

Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:24:00 - [11] Originally by: JitaTradeManager Get a Fleet of neut domis.... And see him warp away
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:26:00 - [12] Or a huge fleet of ibises to instapop him! Yes, a huge fleet of dreads would work, but that's not really relevant. Postcount: 526732
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:53:00 - [13] couldn't you just fly up to the MS and have a few ships drop a bunch of sentry drones. Kinda hard for a MS to bump a bunch of sentry drones out of the way to warp... that's what i would think... don't know though. faction smarties can cause an issue with keeping the drones alive, but it sounds like a damn good start. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Mathias Orsen couldn't you just fly up to the MS and have a few ships drop a bunch of sentry drones. Kinda hard for a MS to bump a bunch of sentry drones out of the way to warp... that's what i would think... don't know though. faction smarties can cause an issue with keeping the drones alive, but it sounds like a damn good start. officer/faction smarties > sentry drones Meatwad FTW
Highpriest Aden	Posted - 2007.08.25 15:06:00 - [15] Draoidh - It has nothing to do about whining. as other people state. it's nearly impossible to kill, and dude, even if we assemble a fleet to scare it off. it will come back, or camp another system. the proplem dosent dissapeer. Since people use motherships in empire, there is no way to kill it, more and more ms class ships come ingame. and again, I dont give a fa... that it take a minute to lock me, you dont need a lock, inorder to kill people. If it was ordenary carriers, it would give people a chance to give them a fight. but due to the ms bonus about ewar. There is no idea in even trying to give them a even fight, most pirates will run, and if we can deliver a serious threat, the ms will just jump when it even sees a shadow of a hostile capital fleet. I dont wanna flame pirates in general, but I'm just speaking of experience.
Sarah Benthwell	Posted - 2007.08.25 15:14:00 - [16] The only way i've come up with killing a ms pilot in lowsec is... jump 10 nano neut bhaals in, instagib his cap below 70%(need math genius here). Bump the **** out of him and keep jumping in more nanobhaals. Cyno in dread fleet with nanonaglafars (lol). Then hope you can kill him in time before he can get a lucky warp off. (Also may need some nanomachs, as 1 with likely die quick)
Dheorl	Posted - 2007.08.25 15:24:00 - [17] I know it would be an absolute nightmare to carry out but I've always though that having someone in every low sec system within the jump distance killing anyone who looks like they're even thinking about opening a cyno could be amusing. All you need then is a shot from the webcam of the mom pilot as he realises he is stuck in a system which is rapidly filling with dreads. I know it would be nigh on impossible to do but oh how I would love to see the face of the mom pilot.
Nyx STeeLGamers	Posted - 2007.08.25 15:54:00 - [18] ye, the MS is pretty invulnable in lowsec, but is it worth buying a MS and use it in Lowsec? nah, and imo, its safer to fly a BS in 0.0 than a MS :), interdictors ftw :P
William DeMeo Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.25 16:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Mathias Orsen couldn't you just fly up to the MS and have a few ships drop a bunch of sentry drones. Kinda hard for a MS to bump a bunch of sentry drones out of the way to warp... that's what i would think... don't know though. faction smarties can cause an issue with keeping the drones alive, but it sounds like a damn good start. Suicide frigs on it's smartbombs to close him in works. Bumping them works too. Yarr
Riho Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.25 16:23:00 - [20] Originally by: T'X Same reason why high levels camp other people in other games. They're bored and want some fun. Nothing more satisfying that popping noobs in lowsec in a mothership ^^ Then again, you get popped by a ship that takes a minute to lock ;) allmost all MS have few officer sensorboosters... so they lock like BS or cruisers :P --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------

Konnichi Wa	Posted - 2007.08.25 16:41:00 - [21] Suicide frigs on it's smartbombs to close him in works. Bumping them works too. Yarr hehe, You guys need to make a contract with the goons, inorder to be able to bump him all the time untill the ms dies.
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.25 16:50:00 - [22] Originally by: T'X Then again, you get popped by a ship that takes a minute to lock ;) Smartbombs on a mothership have enough range to cover pretty much anything going in or coming out of the gate and they don't need target locks. __________________________________
v3rtigo Odins Ravens Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.08.25 19:03:00 - [23] I welcome the challange :) Taking down a 20 bill ship should pose a challange. Bumping, spamming jetcans, drones etc are viable methods IMO.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.25 19:23:00 - [24] Actually, spamming wrecks is soon going to go away, as they're planning to fix it. So, you're left with, er, bumping it and neuting its cap to nothing at the same time. Basically, since they're not going to allow bubbles in low-sec, they could either: (a) make them scrammable in a way when they're in low-sec (doesn't really make sense) (b) disallow them from low-sec completely (c) give another ship type a way of scrambling them that works in low-sec. I'd go for (c) or just (b) if they're too lazy for the last one, but meh.. the problem is going to be that they're being built more and more, regardless of cost. I remember suiciding my breacher attacking a mothership (i bought a breacher, and realised it's the ugliest looking ship in EvE, even selling one is a crime), now that was absolutely completely redicilous ;) Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.25 19:26:00 - [25] Lowsec is the only space left where they have a bit of immunity. Would be just wrong to take that away - a ms is not thaaat much better than a carrier but cost like 20 times. Dont want to see a noob pirate gang tackel down a 30 bil isk ship with a simple bubble like in 0.0. Crappy whine imho.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.08.25 20:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Lowsec is the only space left where they have a bit of immunity. Would be just wrong to take that away - a ms is not thaaat much better than a carrier but cost like 20 times. Dont want to see a noob pirate gang tackel down a 30 bil isk ship with a simple bubble like in 0.0. Crappy whine imho. So you suggest they be completely invincible instead and impossible to tackle, right. /signed I support this thread. MS in lowsec are worse than the old stababonds. At least it was possible to kill and sometimes tackle a stababond, an MS in lowsec is impossible to tackle or kill. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.25 20:25:00 - [27] Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 25/08/2007 20:28:49 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix So you suggest they be completely invincible instead and impossible to tackle, right. I don't suggest it - it already is this way and should not be changed. If you spend 30 bil isk you can expect a bit of security and not a only a little improved carrier with a few more drones. It's fine like it is, looks like the forumwhiner-coalition is searching for something new to whine about in order to enforce another unneccessary nerf. It's not that everyone and his dog is flying motherships nowadays. Sad enough they are easy to catch in 0.0 now ... noone likes to buy motherships anymore
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.25 20:30:00 - [28] \|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\|,, \| WHINE TRUCK \|'\|""";.\|\|.___. \|_..._...______====_\|__\|...,]\| "(@)'(@)""""\|(@)(@)****(@) Behold, the whine-mobile is here! It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.25 20:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Highpriest Aden I see 2 motherships in a .4 system nighboursystem to nonni. I have nothing against piracy, hence it's a part of the game, and have always been. What I dont understand is why a MS "that cant be scrambeld" can enter a lowsec system? Even if my corp had 20 dreads, and wantet to pop it, we couldent keep the ms down.. it would just laugh, wait alittle, and jump out. the only way to kill it is to get it agroed,and then take away it's cap, jump in the firepower and pop it. Wish us good luck! It should be nerfed. If it was ordenary carriers they were sitting in, kool. we could assemble a force, and do some PVP'ing, but no way against a MS! Titans and motherships I belive should be a 0.0 thingie, since they can only be build outthere. I look forward to the next patch! You don't have to kill it, you can hurt it by killing it's fighers aswell, you know they are expensive
mdl70	Posted - 2007.08.25 21:21:00 - [30] MS's should be 0.0 only!!! just like Titans. I got jumped by 3 carriers and a ms, with a support fleet in low sec. space (all Pirates).

Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.08.25 21:23:00 - [31] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 25/08/2007 20:28:49 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix So you suggest they be completely invincible instead and impossible to tackle, right. I don't suggest it - it already is this way and should not be changed. If you spend 30 bil isk you can expect a bit of security and not a only a little improved carrier with a few more drones. It's fine like it is, looks like the forumwhiner-coalition is searching for something new to whine about in order to enforce another unneccessary nerf. It's not that everyone and his dog is flying motherships nowadays. Sad enough they are easy to catch in 0.0 now ... noone likes to buy motherships anymore so if i spent 30 billion isk on officer mods for my abaddon it should be invincible? ISK spent is never justification for an i-win button. just because someone is rich does not mean they deserve an unkillable ship FFS Meatwad FTW
TigerWoman	Posted - 2007.08.25 22:28:00 - [32] immune to e-war = bad but on the other hand a ship which is quite expensive should be tough. what just came to my mind: -special capital warp jammers which can only be fitted on bs or maybee dictors (since dictors are made to keep ships at the spot they are) theese device needs to have very high fitting requs of course to make it a sacrifice on gank/tank/speed to fit them. maybee give the capital disruptors a strenght of 1 point and the moms a strength of 3-5 points so you need 4-6 bs in "capital disrupt setups" to keep it in grid. the capital disruptors fitting requs should be so high that you cannot fit a decent tank oc. so the capital pilot can spot them and kill them in a reasonable time. ramge could even be within officer smartbomb range. this way you will need a bunch of guys in dedicated setups (and expensive btw) to get a mom down in lowsec. beeing invincible is never good. hard to kill okay, but a mom in lowsec is so goddam hard to kill you arent even able to kill it with an overwhelming power since it can warp of anytime. of course you could try to bring enough bs which will alphastrike kill it, but that wont be allowd by the mighte desynch and or node.....
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.25 22:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Markus Aurelian so if i spent 30 billion isk on officer mods for my abaddon it should be invincible? ISK spent is never justification for an i-win button. just because someone is rich does not mean they deserve an unkillable ship FFS Don't make a bad comparison and roll your eyes. Isk spent is very well a justification for superiority. You spend 30k you get a frigate, you spend 70 bil you get a titan. Thats absolutely ok and thats natural: you spend 100 $ you get a rubber dinghy with a riffle, you spend multiple billion $ and you get an aircraft carrier with a bigger firepower than the entire fleet of iraq. You comparison with the apoc is not realistc, because the prices of the modules do not represent their real value but are so high due extreme rarity. It's like saying "my state raven costs 80bil, i want it to have the same performance like a titan". So in fact you can't fit a battelship for a real (effective) value of 30bil. It's risk vs reward. And if someone risks 30 bil (not based on fictional prices ... btw i can sell you a module for 20000 bil, does not mean that this it's real value), the reward should be a better chance to survive than a 1-2 bil carrier. Simply kill the carrier's fighers and you do already more damage than a battelship is worth (fighters = around 18 mil each, if you shoot 10 of them, and they are not insured like your battelship) and then it sits there like rock of veldspar, fine. It can't even dock at a station in lowsec and it's not absolute immune, there are strategies to kill it, it's just quite hard and that what it should be.
PauZotoh Zhaan Teylas Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.25 23:01:00 - [34] and its possible to kill MS in low sec if you know how, if you say you have 20dreads and you say you cant kill MS then you suck m8, too be honest to kill ms you dont need that much or any dreads, that shows you dont have clue how to kill ms. So stop whining about MS in low secs. If MS cant enter low sec that means all logistic based on them will be destroyed, no more hauling. Yes MS are very good for that too. not only pirating.
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.08.25 23:16:00 - [35] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Markus Aurelian so if i spent 30 billion isk on officer mods for my abaddon it should be invincible? ISK spent is never justification for an i-win button. just because someone is rich does not mean they deserve an unkillable ship FFS Don't make a bad comparison and roll your eyes. Isk spent is very well a justification for superiority. You spend 30k you get a frigate, you spend 70 bil you get a titan. Thats absolutely ok and thats natural: you spend 100 $ you get a rubber dinghy with a riffle, you spend multiple billion $ and you get an aircraft carrier with a bigger firepower than the entire fleet of iraq. You comparison with the apoc is not realistc, because the prices of the modules do not represent their real value but are so high due extreme rarity. It's like saying "my state raven costs 80bil, i want it to have the same performance like a titan". So in fact you can't fit a battelship for a real (effective) value of 30bil. It's risk vs reward. And if someone risks 30 bil (not based on fictional prices ... btw i can sell you a module for 20000 bil, does not mean that this it's real value), the reward should be a better chance to survive than a 1-2 bil carrier. Simply kill the carrier's fighers and you do already more damage than a battelship is worth (fighters = around 18 mil each, if you shoot 10 of them, and they are not insured like your battelship) and then it sits there like rock of veldspar, fine. It can't even dock at a station in lowsec and it's not absolute immune, there are strategies to kill it, it's just quite hard and that what it should be. risk vs reward is what makes MS in lowsec imbalanced. MS pilots risk very very little in the way of asset loss, and gain a fair amount of kills/loot/etc. how many times has a MS been killed in lowsec? Moms are tough to kill. they can field impressive tanks and arent short on the damage dealing. ISK = immunity is not a way to balance gameplay, especially with the playerbase continually growing wealthier and more and more Moms coming into EVE. Meatwad FTW
Highpriest Aden	Posted - 2007.08.26 00:13:00 - [36] I dont think I'm whining!! ofc you can kill a ms with less than 20 dreads, but imagen a MS on a gate using faction smarties. the shield recharge rate is prolly working out for whatever the sentry guns is dealing it, so no need to use any cap whatsoever. If a pirate or someone else smell a trap, they are poof, 10 jumps away in a instant. even if they get confrontet by a massive firepower, they can sit there laughing a lil while, and then poof. As for the logistic, a ordenary carrier can do the same. not in the same m3 ofc. but it just takes a little longer to move the same ammoth of m3, so that is NOT a valid reason for letting it stay in empire. Just becos it expensive, dosent mean that it's a I-Win-Ship. honestly, I have never seen a ms getting blown into peices without the use of interdictors. ofc if the pilot is agroed and logs off and get killed within the agro timer. But that's the only way I can come to think off.. If people have construktive critisem or ideas to kill a ms in empire, please let me know. Better ideas than nanno faction amarr battleships. good idea tho, but not a realistic way :D
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.26 01:31:00 - [37] Two alternatives: Replace the MS-ew-immunity with the ability to fit a module - much like the Triage module - but only usable in 0.0 and remove the sensor changes, fuel costs and velocity issues.(This includes a possible alter of the triage module which in current state is somewhat useless, or giving the ship a bonus for triage modules). Make the MS only completely EW-immune in 0.0(should be harder to implent). They should still have high attributes in sensor strength, and targetting range(Yes, resolution would be hit by RSDs however can also be countered easily by allies, and tbh, they should still have some effect). They could even be awarded with a blockade-runner like bonus(heck even one that adapts after the security level( 0.4 - +1 warp strength, 0.3 +2, 0.2 +3,0.1 +4, 0.0 - immune). Postcount: 661907
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.08.26 02:19:00 - [38] Originally by: NoNah Two alternatives: Replace the MS-ew-immunity with the ability to fit a module - much like the Triage module - but only usable in 0.0 and remove the sensor changes, fuel costs and velocity issues.(This includes a possible alter of the triage module which in current state is somewhat useless, or giving the ship a bonus for triage modules). Make the MS only completely EW-immune in 0.0(should be harder to implent). They should still have high attributes in sensor strength, and targetting range(Yes, resolution would be hit by RSDs however can also be countered easily by allies, and tbh, they should still have some effect). They could even be awarded with a blockade-runner like bonus(heck even one that adapts after the security level( 0.4 - +1 warp strength, 0.3 +2, 0.2 +3,0.1 +4, 0.0 - immune). i like the scaling sec status idea, but it would probably have to be a bit more than that to prevent ppl from whining that its too easy. mabe give a Mom the benefit of a full rack of wcs or something. Meatwad FTW
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.08.26 03:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 26/08/2007 03:10:12 Originally by: PauZotoh Zhaan and its possible to kill MS in low sec if you know how, if you say you have 20dreads and you say you cant kill MS then you suck m8, too be honest to kill ms you dont need that much or any dreads, that shows you dont have clue how to kill ms. So stop whining about MS in low secs. If MS cant enter low sec that means all logistic based on them will be destroyed, no more hauling. Yes MS are very good for that too. not only pirating. 20 blaster moros wouldn't even have time to lock the mom before it jumped, how are they to kill it then exactly? (keeping in mind there is no way to tackle it in lowsec) CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.08.26 05:44:00 - [40] Warp 500 frigates from various locations at 0 onto the ms, have it smartbomb them, and have the wrecks bump it. Then, after a week of crying, CCP will change it so you can fly through wrecks.

Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.08.26 05:46:00 - [41] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Warp 500 frigates from various locations at 0 onto the ms, have it smartbomb them, and have the wrecks bump it. Then, after a week of crying, CCP will change it so you can fly through wrecks. its already being changed, its in the patch notes. Meatwad FTW
Scott Ryder	Posted - 2007.08.26 11:23:00 - [42] Edited by: Scott Ryder on 26/08/2007 11:24:09 Originally by: Sarah Benthwell The only way i've come up with killing a ms pilot in lowsec is... jump 10 nano neut bhaals in, instagib his cap below 70%(need math genius here). Bump the **** out of him and keep jumping in more nanobhaals. Cyno in dread fleet with nanonaglafars (lol). Then hope you can kill him in time before he can get a lucky warp off. (Also may need some nanomachs, as 1 with likely die quick) Youre not a genius are you? Only you and Scius would engage motherships in factionships. There are more price effecient ways of doing it. Faction battleships arent really the sulution here :)
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.26 12:31:00 - [43] "Even if my corp had 20 dreads, and wantet to pop it, we couldent keep the ms down.. it would just laugh, wait alittle, and jump out." Not if you had some BS with neutralizers and were fighting it solo. As I understand it capital ships need a certain amount of cap before they can jump. If you are fighting a mothership that has been camping a system with a pvp fit, it probably doesn't have a cap fit. It's possible to kill it in low sec. It just requires more ships doing more things (ships to bump it, ships to neut the cap, and others to damage it). Of course if the mothership has help (which it probably will) you'll need to bring more ships to deal with that help too. But if you had 20 dreads + support all bearing down on it, I don't think it would take TOO long to murder the mothership...granted I haven't taken part in a fight vs a mothership yet so I have no idea how long it would take. --- Put in space whales!
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.08.26 14:27:00 - [44] Originally by: Lisento Slaven "Even if my corp had 20 dreads, and wantet to pop it, we couldent keep the ms down.. it would just laugh, wait alittle, and jump out." Not if you had some BS with neutralizers and were fighting it solo. As I understand it capital ships need a certain amount of cap before they can jump. If you are fighting a mothership that has been camping a system with a pvp fit, it probably doesn't have a cap fit. It's possible to kill it in low sec. It just requires more ships doing more things (ships to bump it, ships to neut the cap, and others to damage it). Of course if the mothership has help (which it probably will) you'll need to bring more ships to deal with that help too. But if you had 20 dreads + support all bearing down on it, I don't think it would take TOO long to murder the mothership...granted I haven't taken part in a fight vs a mothership yet so I have no idea how long it would take. The mothership can WARP away. Warp disruptors don't work on motherships, and you can't place dictor bubbles in low-sec.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.26 14:34:00 - [45] The frigate spam so it gets surrounded by wrecks will not work very soon, because it's being fixed, so please stop listing that as a strategy ;) Anyway, it'd take both being bumped a whole lot (to prevent it from warping), killing its cap in a very short time frame (to prevent it from jumping), and of course, firepower to kill it. One mistake during the killing means it's going to be warping off / jumping off. Oh, yes, as soon as he sees local swell, he can just jump off / warp off, and a support fleet is very likely to at least keep you from bumping him, so he can warp off. Has one been killed in combat in low-sec, yet? Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
WildSide Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:00:00 - [46] if u ask any alliance...what u prefer, 30 dreads or 1 mothership. about everyone would say 30 dreads. Guess why... A mom is almost like a 30x price tag carrier with twice amotuh of drones , but as dead as any carrier in a dictor bubble. (this is in 0.0) In low sec its much less vunerable, however...I think most low sec ms setups is setup for fairly easy tank, and with meds slots filled of officer sensorboosters, scrams and maybe even officer webs. If ure able to bump it...and after some time....many ms pilot get slow of been in low sec, maybe even forgetting to have a cyno alt rdy. all u need to do is bump it with a couple of ships, aswell as neutralisator it, and jump in a fleet crossing ure fingers he gonna not be able to warp efore the fleet arrives. the second the fleet arrives and cynos goes up cynoing dreads and carriers. I bet the mom pilot is so damn desynced and lagget, he gonna be sitting here like a noob frig agains a t2 cruiser. Vids produced by me
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Xequecal The mothership can WARP away. Warp disruptors don't work on motherships, and you can't place dictor bubbles in low-sec. You quoted my whole passage and then completely ignored the part where I said to keep bumping it with ships. Unless motherships are immune to bumps as well and it's just not listed in the description? --- Put in space whales!
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:26:00 - [48] Originally by: PMolkenthin True, but not many people have a mothership do they? I bet there's 40-50 MS in the game, and what, 10 titans? How many MS will there be in a year? Two years? Remember when a Dread was a sight to see like a MS is right now?
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:26:00 - [49] Originally by: T'X Same reason why high levels camp other people in other games. They're bored and want some fun. Nothing more satisfying that popping noobs in lowsec in a mothership ^^ Then again, you get popped by a ship that takes a minute to lock ;) Officer smartbombs don't need a lock.
Alcatraz Jones	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:27:00 - [50] Allow interdictor bubbles in low sec. That will teach those pesky pirates !

Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:28:00 - [51] The only way you can possibly kill a MS in lowsec is to surround it with wrecks/corpses and neutralize its cap to a certain point and keep it there. Wrecks/corpses will keep it from being able to align for warp, and neutralized cap to not alow jumping. Or you can always hope for a desync.
Carin K Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:31:00 - [52] Originally by: T'X Then again, you get popped by a ship that takes a minute to lock ;) Ha, you have personal experience of lots of MS, take a Bob hel for example piloted by John Roe. Ive heard stories of him locking a raven that has initiated warp already and scramming it before it can get out, bringing it out of warp. Nerf officer sensor boosters :) ____-____
Carin K Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:34:00 - [53] Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis The only way you can possibly kill a MS in lowsec is to surround it with wrecks/corpses and neutralize its cap to a certain point and keep it there. Wrecks/corpses will keep it from being able to align for warp, and neutralized cap to not alow jumping. Or you can always hope for a desync. wrecks and corpses and i think cans also will not stop u from aligning after this next patch, ull just coast through them ____-____
Ather Ialeas Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Highpriest Aden I see 2 motherships in a .4 system nighboursystem to nonni. I have nothing against piracy, hence it's a part of the game, and have always been. What I dont understand is why a MS "that cant be scrambeld" can enter a lowsec system? Even if my corp had 20 dreads, and wantet to pop it, we couldent keep the ms down.. it would just laugh, wait alittle, and jump out. the only way to kill it is to get it agroed,and then take away it's cap, jump in the firepower and pop it. Wish us good luck! It should be nerfed. If it was ordenary carriers they were sitting in, kool. we could assemble a force, and do some PVP'ing, but no way against a MS! Titans and motherships I belive should be a 0.0 thingie, since they can only be build outthere. I look forward to the next patch! You don't have to kill it, you can hurt it by killing it's fighers aswell, you know they are expensive 24 Ogre I:s are enough to kill just about anything, no need for fighters. Just ask Miz. [ insert fancy sig here ]
The End Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.26 17:16:00 - [55] MOMs should cost 100bil +, maybe more, and Titans should cost 250bil+ So, this would reduce the amount of people having them and thus the amount of "invincible gate camps" in low sec. However, MOMS/Titans are expensive supercaps which should have special privileges. A mom can be killed in low sec on a jump-in, using neuts and proper bumping tactics. Also, you dont have to kill it to defeat it. Jump in your capital fleet and watch the MOM vanish, which opens up the gate and takes care of so-called "invincible" MOM. Remember, you're asking that a MOM be vulnerable like a carrier (i.e.- a few damps and some bs), which is absolute bull****. A mom can be "defeated", but perhaps not killed and that is good enough.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.08.26 18:22:00 - [56] its freakin strange but i know some dedicated pilots who would pay u an enourmous sum for the info and a warpin spot on one of those motherships. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
SchirmerN Amarr Danish Arms Association	Posted - 2007.08.26 20:17:00 - [57] Originally by: PauZotoh Zhaan and its possible to kill MS in low sec if you know how, if you say you have 20dreads and you say you cant kill MS then you suck m8, too be honest to kill ms you dont need that much or any dreads, that shows you dont have clue how to kill ms. So stop whining about MS in low secs.
aquontium Gallente Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.08.26 20:59:00 - [58] you jump out, not warp out! indeed, sittin ready to jump on a gate, second the first neut hits your camp you launch cyno and jump. not hard when like miz you have 23 ogre's and 2 cyno accounts.
Vrognem Ardent Adversary Anvil.	Posted - 2007.08.26 22:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Highpriest Aden the shield recharge rate is prolly working out for whatever the sentry guns is dealing it, so no need to use any cap whatsoever. If a pirate or someone else smell a trap, they are poof, 10 jumps away in a instant. even if they get confrontet by a massive firepower, they can sit there laughing a lil while, and then poof. As for the logistic, a ordenary carrier can do the same. not in the same m3 ofc. but it just takes a little longer to move the same ammoth of m3, so that is NOT a valid reason for letting it stay in empire. If a BS can tank sentries, then a MOM obviously can... Ever tried moving 2 BS with mods etc at the same time in a carrier? Doesn't seem to work does it. MOM is worth the outlay and should have its benefits. 30 bill = a lot of trouble to stop, but it can be done IF YOU KNOW HOW. Learn2play and quit whining about it, stop asking for a nerf when you simply need to use your brain. Don't always take the easy way out.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.08.26 22:33:00 - [60] Originally by: Markus Aurelian Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Warp 500 frigates from various locations at 0 onto the ms, have it smartbomb them, and have the wrecks bump it. Then, after a week of crying, CCP will change it so you can fly through wrecks. its already being changed, its in the patch notes. You don't know why it's being changed, do you

Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.08.26 22:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Markus Aurelian Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Warp 500 frigates from various locations at 0 onto the ms, have it smartbomb them, and have the wrecks bump it. Then, after a week of crying, CCP will change it so you can fly through wrecks. its already being changed, its in the patch notes. You don't know why it's being changed, do you the why doesnt affect the results does it Meatwad FTW
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.26 23:32:00 - [62] Originally by: The End MOMs should cost 100bil +, maybe more, and Titans should cost 250bil+ should, should, should... Originally by: The End So, this would reduce the amount of people having them and thus the amount of "invincible gate camps" in low sec. However, MOMS/Titans are expensive supercaps which should have special privileges. Price doesn't work as a detterent. Once upon a time, carriers and dreads were rare. MOMs will become just more and more common. At some point, they'll have to be dealt with. At one point in the past, BS were solo-pwn-mobiles against anything smaller, being able to do full damage against a frig and so on. The argument 'BS are rare' did not stop CCP from nerfing it. And BS are exceptionally common today. Things change. Originally by: The End A mom can be killed in low sec on a jump-in, using neuts and proper bumping tactics. If the pilot is a cretin and does not pay attention, yes. I can kill a AFK nanomach in my Rifter, you know. Originally by: The End Also, you dont have to kill it to defeat it. Jump in your capital fleet and watch the MOM vanish, which opens up the gate and takes care of so-called "invincible" MOM. Ok, so you're saying, it should be invincible? It's like saying that warp scramblers should be removed, because making someone flee is defeating him Originally by: The End Remember, you're asking that a MOM be vulnerable like a carrier (i.e.- a few damps and some bs), which is absolute bull**. A mom can be "defeated", but perhaps not killed and that is good enough. So, now you say, it's fine that a MOM is not killable in low-sec. Why didn't you just say so instead of posting a whole tirade first? It's a crappy attitude, anyway. In three years from now, you can expect to see MOMs in hundreds. Going to be very amusing with thousands of unkillable ships in game, right? BTW, nobody was asking for a MOM to be as vunerable as a carrier. It just needs a way to be held down in low-sec, as putting dictor bubbles in low-sec would make it preety much impossible for any small corp / solo-ers to live there, thus in effect nerfing piracy completely. Originally by:** Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
arbalesttom	Posted - 2007.08.26 23:50:00 - [63] Originally by: Draoidh "can you explain me why a MS should be allowed to camp a .4 system, since it's soo friggin hard to kill?" I still do not understand why not. I am sorry but this thread is really just a whine about "I want to kill it but cant". If you dont like it camping the system then get your corp to warp in and force it to jump out. If your corp is not strong enough, too bad. Complaining about not being able to take out one of the most powerful ships in the game is just lame. ==D CCP has something called the nerfbat. They use it when gamemechanics become unballanced. Aint a mothership camping a 0.4 a little unballanced, since it IS really frikin hard to kill? And even if your at the point of killing it, it will jump out.. I say nerf nerf nerf
The End Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.26 23:58:00 - [64] Cpt Branko, you're just an idiot and I hate you!!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.27 00:07:00 - [65] Originally by: The End Cpt Branko, you're just an idiot and I hate you!! Bwahahah, logic strikes you perfectly, wrecking for thread damage. Yarrr! Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
The End Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.27 00:09:00 - [66] DIEZOR!! DONT NERF MY MOMMMY!!! kthx
arbalesttom	Posted - 2007.08.27 00:36:00 - [67] Originally by: The End Edited by: The End on 27/08/2007 00:19:16 Edited by: The End on 27/08/2007 00:18:55 DIEZOR!! DONT NERF MY MOMMMY!!! kthx p.s.- at Reto Reto: Quote: its freakin strange but i know some dedicated pilots who would pay u an enourmous sum for the info and a warpin spot on one of those motherships. In Aunenen, at the Nonni gate (less than 10km from it)... Come get some I rly hope you where drunk when you typed this and that you cant remember that you typed it tomorrow
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.27 06:00:00 - [68] Edited by: Spenz on 27/08/2007 06:01:02 I love all the mothership pilots...err...elite players saying "oh its EASY to kill a mothership in lowsec you just cant be a NOOB!". Can any one of them name any...ANY motherships that have been killed in lowsec? Any? anyone? Somebody? hello? ok... Yep I thought so. If its so EASY, then why hasnt it been done. Its been tried I know that for sure (remembers an attempt by 24+ nanotyphoons with NOS and neuts that failed when the mothership just jumped out like nothing happened). I think one of the deep seeded issues with supercaps was well explained in the DDD nerf. A Titan, no matter what the cap consumption of a DDD is set to, will always be able to warp or jump in 3 seconds. Now this underlines the supreme cap recharge you can get with officer modules. Bottom line there is only one thing that can kill a mothership in lowsec. That thing is pilot error. Mothership pilots, rationalize it all you want. Doesnt change it from being true. If its so easy to kill you, why dont you show us sometime. So lets say you get eno If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
hellsknights Hells Angels Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.27 06:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Highpriest Aden I see 2 motherships in a .4 system nighboursystem to nonni. I have nothing against piracy, hence it's a part of the game, and have always been. What I dont understand is why a MS "that cant be scrambeld" can enter a lowsec system? Even if my corp had 20 dreads, and wantet to pop it, we couldent keep the ms down.. it would just laugh, wait alittle, and jump out. the only way to kill it is to get it agroed,and then take away it's cap, jump in the firepower and pop it. Wish us good luck! It should be nerfed. If it was ordenary carriers they were sitting in, kool. we could assemble a force, and do some PVP'ing, but no way against a MS! Titans and motherships I belive should be a 0.0 thingie, since they can only be build outthere. I look forward to the next patch! BLAH,BLAH,BLAH, atleast they won't kill you, high sec is of limite to them. Now quite your complaining and play the game. recruitment thread Join channel Hells Angels Inc
CCCP lalalalalla	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:03:00 - [70] I dont know what kind of noobs are in these forums.. but a mothership comes out to be less than 15 bil if built right. They are also not killable at this price in low sec. WTF IS THE POINT OF HAVING A SHIP THAT CANNOT BE KILLED IN LOWSEC. REALLY L33T PVP DOODS. I WOULD WHINE TO WHEN CCP GOES CRAZY WITH STUPID IDEAS LIKE MOTERSHIPS, ITS LIKE THEY LOST THEIR BRAINS AFTER RMR.

R3DSKULL Amarr CCCP INC	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:33:00 - [71] Edited by: R3DSKULL on 27/08/2007 07:36:25 Edited by: R3DSKULL on 27/08/2007 07:33:34 Ok then so there are a few good ideas people have. On one hand the Mom pilots are right its a freaking Mothership. In most movies either something bigger or an army has to attack them, or they have to be killed from the inside. Since well only a few of those work. But not in low sec then consider this. 1.dictor bubbles would work how in empire? do the gate guns blast you for dropping one? i suppose a dicter is a small sacrifice to catch a mom. Becuase we all know how fast a dicter lasts against sentries. 2.Make sentries attackable so dicters can use bubbles in empire. if this happens does this mean we can use smart bombs close to gates at our own risk. Not all nerfs are good ie the lame nos one coming. But often they occur for a reason. Its an attempt at balance. Now the other huge problem is Moms can just jump away. Ok so you cant stop it. And you cant follow it?? A pilot with good skills even if it has a range to jump shorter than a dread. You cant do anything to it hands down. So far the best thing ive seen is that it would have a triage type module that keeps it safe from ewar. But then u have well a small army of bs and some ewar ships and bye mom too easy.... So we cant come up with a way to just nerf it. This game needs to stop going backwards. It always nerfs, takes away! Somone once commented that progressions of techonology should move foward. So lets say somone creates a module used for capturing ships such as moms. but makes it vulnerable while doing so. or a ship designed to battle it. Or only another mothership can scramble one. OR a titan. Even the battlefield. you can do damage to somone by knocking down there fighters but they have drones and they are cheap and if you can afford a mom i doubt u dont have fighter bpos. Or plenty of isk to replace them. The simple solution to this problem is in progressive changes. like in real life technology progresses somone invents a weapon somone makes one better. This makes most sense. Mother Ships are strong but invent something to counter it. I mean we have more ships coming, maybe a t2 tier 3 bs would be designed to tackle moms. A bonus for it specifically to have a cyno jammer for mothership signatures. The science and technology are there. I mean for example in early star trek they coulndt detect cloaked ships. then they learned they emit tachyon particles. Then they could get better at detecting them. It didnt nerf cloaking ships but gave them a fighting chance if they were smart. Moms and the solution should be in same direction. Progressive not regressive. Nerfing is regressive use progressive technology.
WildSide Toys R Us	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:39:00 - [72] or just do as with the remote ecm burst, fit a mom warp disuptor that only moms can fit, like the remote ecm burst fit. with short range. its also able to scramble titans. Vids produced by me
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2007.08.27 08:01:00 - [73] Giving titans and motherships near invulnerability in low sec is just plain stupid. A simple solution would be to change their warp scramble immunity to a blockade runner style bonus. But instead of +2 they could get something like +30 or maybe even +50-60 (or higher, whatever is deemed balanced). In addition to this a capital warp scrambler should be added, give it a scramble strength of 10 or something (same here, exact figures have to be balanced). Thus, if you have a large fleet or 5-6 dreads you could lock a mothership or a titan down. They would no longer be near invulnerable. Meanwhile the super capitals are not overly nerfed, they would still be very hard to catch, ensuring you do get value for your isk spent on it. Regards /Doxs After 9 months of being a "!" face, I now discover that Im butt ugly instead...
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:55:00 - [74] 5 dreads + 5 carriers + 2-4 nanomachs = dead moms now STFU n00bs and use your brains . Like MC/BoB/RED etc. Originally by: Jita Alt DOH, you're right, i'm an idiot >_<
AFTRUNX Human Liberty Syndicate TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:26:00 - [75] camping MS in low sec is so boring.... look at this... MS low sec camping nothing better to do? ------------------------------ It's great to be a Caldari.... SIG<<===My Sig (grrr.. CCP)
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:31:00 - [76] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2007 11:32:37 Originally by: General Apocalypse 5 dreads + 5 carriers + 2-4 nanomachs = dead moms now STFU n00bs and use your brains . Like MC/BoB/RED etc. Er, LOL. Ever heard of jumping? MC, BoB and RED mostly operate in 0.0. The place with dictors and so on. We're talking about low-sec here. Anyway, when's the last time a MOM got killed in low-sec? Eh? Allowing bubbles in low-sec, though, is just insane. It'd make for non-breakable gatecamps. Which would've been a huge nerf to small corps and individuals operating in low-sec. Which would be bad for piracy, seeing it would massively reduce the amount of targets available. Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Best isk	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:33:00 - [77] nerf nerf moms bad for me business
Castra Noor	Posted - 2007.08.27 12:58:00 - [78] Originally by: Doxs Roxs Giving titans and motherships near invulnerability in low sec is just plain stupid. A simple solution would be to change their warp scramble immunity to a blockade runner style bonus. But instead of +2 they could get something like +30 or maybe even +50-60 (or higher, whatever is deemed balanced). In addition to this a capital warp scrambler should be added, give it a scramble strength of 10 or something (same here, exact figures have to be balanced). Thus, if you have a large fleet or 5-6 dreads you could lock a mothership or a titan down. They would no longer be near invulnerable. Meanwhile the super capitals are not overly nerfed, they would still be very hard to catch, ensuring you do get value for your isk spent on it. Regards /Doxs That would be a good solution, and people asked for something like this for 0.0 for titans and motherships back then. But ccp ovedone it, allowing to trap them with simple bubbles. I think the same thing will happen in lowsec soon. Caus its simple and easy, what a shame.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.27 12:58:00 - [79] Even thought not yet urgent issue, motherships' near-immunity in lowsec is growing one. Production rate of motherships is quite higher than their lossrate, especially after new sovereignity benefits. For not-so-nerfing fix, perhaps have docking/jumping aggro-timer also affect all kind of cynosural jumps (via cynofield, bridge, array etc)? I.e. once you agro something you'll get message like "Your weapons systems have to cool down before initiating jump drive.." for the next 60 seconds. In consequence, dedicated team might trap an aggressing MS (with couple nanoships, cyno, and fleet of dreads). Wouldn't stop MS from doing nasty things, but might stop it from using predictable patterns (like camping same lowsec gate for hours). -Lasse
gordon cain Minmatar M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.27 15:04:00 - [80] omg did you just die to one or soemthing. No reasen to spam everywhere with this. You already have a thread in "Game development forum". Get a grip man. gordon cain "Allways remember. Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience"

Emokid 94	Posted - 2007.08.27 15:59:00 - [81] Maybe have the space holding race in the current area to jump in a few NPC ships as soon as a MS enter lo-sec, as a reaction to such a threat entering their space? If they get aggroed, more ships enter, and more, until the MS has to leave. Could be nice to actually throw in some role-play in this as well at the same time.
Dreadpilot Roberts New Balkan Mafia Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.08.27 16:03:00 - [82] bah ... its bad enough they cannot enter high-sec ... now stop whining
Odium47	Posted - 2007.08.27 16:40:00 - [83] So it really cant be drained out of energy with Neutralizers or Nos ? How about throwing some cargo, or using containers to make the MS bump into them, instead of wrecks ?
Celestal	Posted - 2007.08.27 16:46:00 - [84] I see no reason for supercaps ( moms + titans ) to be allowed in low sec . Anyone who thinks they should be allowed in low sec should get in a cloaked ship , wait for miz cenuij to come online , then sit in otou for an hour watching miz smartbombing ships coming in . About 95% of the ships are rookie ships/shuttles . There is no skill involved , no danger just mindless killing of noobs (anyone slightly older simply plates/extends/wcs their ship and proceeds safely through. In fact I would challenge a GM/dev to observe this for an hour then give us a public justification for allowing this . A few days ago miz was camping the gate in a nyx with vegeta ( who flies fenian miz`s scamming buddy ) also in a nyx . So how will the armchair generals plan to kill 2 nyxes camping a gate in low sec ?
Jacob Swell Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.27 17:47:00 - [85] Super capitals should be restricted to 0.0 space. In all the whining of "plz don't nerf MS!" has there been a valid reason why a MS should be allowed into low sec space. Outside of the bizarre thought experiment tactics that logistically would never work ingame posted on the forums, there is no way to tackle and kill a MS in lowsec. Such invulnerability means the pirate can attack and camp with impunity. While pirates get their kicks, it hurts low sec on the whole as it encourages players to remain within high-sec.
MirrorGod Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.08.27 18:21:00 - [86] Well, considering they can't dock, I'd think it'd be a challenge but they are killable. 1) You have to kill the POS where they park it or 2) Probe down the pilot after it's logged off aggressed and jump a Dread fleet in with some Neut Domi's in case the pilot attempts to log back in. There you go, problem solved. Thread fails. Whine fails. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected])
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.08.27 18:36:00 - [87] Originally by: MirrorGod Well, considering they can't dock, I'd think it'd be a challenge but they are killable. 1) You have to kill the POS where they park it or 2) Probe down the pilot after it's logged off aggressed and jump a Dread fleet in with some Neut Domi's in case the pilot attempts to log back in. There you go, problem solved. Thread fails. Whine fails. No, you fail.
xenodia Gallente Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.08.27 18:43:00 - [88] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Draoidh "can you explain me why a MS should be allowed to camp a .4 system, since it's soo friggin hard to kill?" I still do not understand why not. I am sorry but this thread is really just a whine about "I want to kill it but cant". If you dont like it camping the system then get your corp to warp in and force it to jump out. If your corp is not strong enough, too bad. Complaining about not being able to take out one of the most powerful ships in the game is just lame. ==D 'Powerful' and 'Expensive' should NEVER EVER EVER equal 'invincible', and that's what a mothership in lowsec is. Im sure theres many a country with a small coastal navy that would REALLY have liked to do something about Aircraft carriers cruising off their coast. To them, the aircraft carrier probably seemed invincible too. Its not, the country in question just lacked the necessary resources to destroy it or drive it away. Im fine with motherships and/or titans being allowed in .4 systems. It IS possible to kill them unless they jump out immediately. And if they jump out.... well you still won. You got rid of the thing, just without the pretty explosion. This signature space for rent
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.08.27 20:17:00 - [89] There is no motive to allow supercapitals in low sec. They can only be built in 0.0. They are, as titans, Alliance war machines and should be restricted to alliance wars. Using your example, my naive mate, although American airship carriers can go with relatively impunity near places like Middle East, they won't pass even near China or Russia, for example. In the same way, motherships shouldn't be able to get near the great empire factions space. People defending Mothership invulnerabilities are most likely people who have one or are near getting one and want to play a game where they cannot be beaten. Pathetic people who can't stand real opposition. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Jacob Swell Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.27 21:34:00 - [90] Originally by: MirrorGod Well, considering they can't dock, I'd think it'd be a challenge but they are killable. 1) You have to kill the POS where they park it or 2) Probe down the pilot after it's logged off aggressed and jump a Dread fleet in with some Neut Domi's in case the pilot attempts to log back in. There you go, problem solved. Thread fails. Whine fails. Both your 'solutions' would never work in the actual game: 1. Assuming a MS is in a POS, killing the POS to get at the MS would simply take too long. The MS pilot would have warped out of the POS to a SS and cynoed out of the system long before the POS was in danger of falling. 2. Your example solution requires the pilot to log off aggressed. Any PvP pilot worth his salt will wait out the aggression timer before logging off. The only exception would be a client crash. The second part of your solution (fleet of nos domis/dreads) requires a huge investment of isk/logistics, far beyond what populations in low-sec could field. Lastly, such a fleet would require an afk MS pilot or some mind boggling good luck to get itself into a position where they could neut tackle a MS that it crosses over into the absurd. So in the end, your 'solution' is hoping the MS pilot logs/crashes aggressed coupled with LUCK that a fleet of neut domis and dreads are in that system at that right moment to probe out and kill it. There is a reason why The Establishment's mothership wasn't killed until it was in 0.0 space.

Alt 363	Posted - 2007.08.27 22:56:00 - [91] To all the idiots who say "lolol just bump and nos it" go ask 0utbreak about the time they tried to kill establishments nyx in lowsec some months ago.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.27 23:00:00 - [92] IIRC you can also ask the biggest drunkard of IAC what heartrate is after engaging a fleet with your mom - even if they don't have any bubbles. Postcount: 746023
salty alt	Posted - 2007.08.28 01:02:00 - [93] Easy solution is to make a capital scrambler module that fits on Motherships and Titans. Its bad enough now that in 0.0 a single skilled pilot, warping in and out to avoid/break lock can permanently tackle a 30b Mothership or 60b Titan with 12m 'dictor. Like it or not, there has to be some reward to spending the time and effort in this game to come up with 20b isk for a Mom. Someone brings a Mother to the fight... you gotta bring something to match.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.08.28 01:14:00 - [94] Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 28/08/2007 01:14:53 Originally by: salty alt Easy solution is to make a capital scrambler module that fits on Motherships and Titans. Its bad enough now that in 0.0 a single skilled pilot, warping in and out to avoid/break lock can permanently tackle a 30b Mothership or 60b Titan with 12m 'dictor. Like it or not, there has to be some reward to spending the time and effort in this game to come up with 20b isk for a Mom. Someone brings a Mother to the fight... you gotta bring something to match. You are ridiculously exagerating. A single interdictor cannot tackle a properly fit mothership for any reasonable amount of time without a fleet to support it. And even if your affirmation was corrected an interceptor can easily tackle a Battleship forever. It is an specialized role and there is nothing wrong in being able to perform it against much bigger ships. A mothership is a fleet ship, to be used in Alliance battles. And it shines there. The amount of motherships fielded to this role is proof enough for this. It was never meant to be a solo ownmobile. A person who has played more does NOT have the right to play at advantage just because he played more. That is a distorted concept. The reward should come in the form of knowledge and abilities of the pilot not the ships. If the pilot is smart enough to learn with experience. Then, and only then, you could call the guys you bested noobs. Until then you can only say that when you win you did nothing more than your obligation, and when you lose, well, the othwr guy must be extremelly better than you ever dreamed to be. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Jacob Swell Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.28 02:11:00 - [95] Edited by: Jacob Swell on 28/08/2007 02:11:40 Edited by: Jacob Swell on 28/08/2007 02:11:19 Originally by: salty alt Easy solution is to make a capital scrambler module that fits on Motherships and Titans. Its bad enough now that in 0.0 a single skilled pilot, warping in and out to avoid/break lock can permanently tackle a 30b Mothership or 60b Titan with 12m 'dictor. Like it or not, there has to be some reward to spending the time and effort in this game to come up with 20b isk for a Mom. Someone brings a Mother to the fight... you gotta bring something to match. Take a look at the videos of GS killing Shrike's Titan. We were spamming bubbles around it with multiple interdictors. A single one can not do the job of tackling a supercap for very long. BoB's support fleet was specifically focus firing on dictors with anti-support HACs. It wasn't until BoB abandoned their Titan to salvage the remnants of their fleet that the Titan's death was certain. Even in 0.0 pinning down a supercap isn't an easy thing, good luck trying such a thing in low-sec.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.28 02:17:00 - [96] Originally by: Alt 363 To all the idiots who say "lolol just bump and nos it" go ask 0utbreak about the time they tried to kill establishments nyx in lowsec some months ago. so does that mean it's impossible to bump a mothership or what? --- Put in space whales!
Krall Amarr Aquilae Stellaris Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.28 02:48:00 - [97] anyone have think on cap bomb by stealthbomber? :)? 10x is enought i think for put below 70% a ms :) no jump away = die :P
Saint Lazarus C R Y O	Posted - 2007.08.28 04:51:00 - [98] Originally by: Krall Amarr anyone have think on cap bomb by stealthbomber? :)? 10x is enought i think for put below 70% a ms :) no jump away = die :P No bombs in low sec :P ------------------------------
Director Stoned Band of Developers	Posted - 2007.08.28 05:10:00 - [99] I actually hope one day MS's will be allowed in Jita space. I mean whats the use of it without being able to show off infront of a large newb crowd? These days Jita is so boring with the endless contract spamming in local and the over inflated prices one pays, I'd like to see it shaken up with a big corp rolling in and tanking concord for the day.
WildSide Toys R Us M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.28 05:20:00 - [100] Originally by: Director Stoned I actually hope one day MS's will be allowed in Jita space. I mean whats the use of it without being able to show off infront of a large newb crowd? These days Jita is so boring with the endless contract spamming in local and the over inflated prices one pays, I'd like to see it shaken up with a big corp rolling in and tanking concord for the day. signed! or a titan... sitting outside station 4/4 with randome timer like each 20-40min DD`ing everyone outside station. [img] Vids produced by me

Irob Urore Amarr Rick Astleys Pirate Corp Of Goodness	Posted - 2007.08.28 05:45:00 - [101] Originally by: Securion Wolfheart The thing is; its just a matter of time before EVERY pirate corp have a mothership or two on almost every gate in low sec. Sadly this will be about the time CCP realize what a joke MOMS in .4 are.
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.08.28 08:31:00 - [102] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/08/2007 11:32:37 Originally by: General Apocalypse 5 dreads + 5 carriers + 2-4 nanomachs = dead moms now STFU n00bs and use your brains . Like MC/BoB/RED etc. Er, LOL. Ever heard of jumping? MC, BoB and RED mostly operate in 0.0. The place with dictors and so on. We're talking about low-sec here. Anyway, when's the last time a MOM got killed in low-sec? Eh? Allowing bubbles in low-sec, though, is just insane. It'd make for non-breakable gatecamps. Which would've been a huge nerf to small corps and individuals operating in low-sec. Which would be bad for piracy, seeing it would massively reduce the amount of targets available. You ever heard of neuts ? 25 neuts nuke a mom cap in 1-2 cycle . So bye bye jumping . And moms didn't got killed in low sex because so far no one bothered to kill one that's not a direct threat . Maybe Lowa's boys will kill one Originally by: Jita Alt DOH, you're right, i'm an idiot >_<
Alexandra Silverscream	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:00:00 - [103] 1. Banning Titans from low sec empire simply isn't viable. They are logistics ships first and foremost and that part would be completely null and void. 2. Yes, Motherships are almost impossible to kill in low sec, but their fighters are easy bait. Gets very expensive to keep replacing those, I can tell you that.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:38:00 - [104] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/08/2007 09:39:48 Originally by: General Apocalypse You ever heard of neuts ? 25 neuts nuke a mom cap in 1-2 cycle . LOL. Just LOL. 25 neuts nuke a mom cap in 1-2 cycles? ;P Aaaalright. Let's do some math, since you're too lazy. A Nyx will have, with pilot skills, 84375 cap, 25 heavy neuts is about 12500 cap neutralized. With a cap setup, he can very likely shrug off 25 neuts on him. That was one of the problems with remote DDs - they didn't stop Titans from doing anything, because they'd recharge it in no time. Read the dev blog before the changes about it to get an idea how it works. Originally by: General Apocalypse And moms didn't got killed in low sex because so far no one bothered to kill one that's not a direct threat. Er, not really. There have been attempts, it's just that it doesn't work. Edit: whoever posted above me about killing fighters, well: (a) Low-sec gatecamping pilots often don't even use the buggers, they use T1 heavies. (b) They smartbomb people, don't drone them to death. It's not like a MS will lock, web, scram and launch drones when a ship comes at a gate Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Maddiganed	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:40:00 - [105] Edited by: Maddiganed on 28/08/2007 09:40:44 Yeah... No stealth bomber BOMBs in low sec No Bubbles in low sec But Motherships allowed... fukin' stupid....
Noxious IV Militaris	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:10:00 - [106] People seem to be MISSING A POINT. If Motherships were not allowed in low sec, then they couldn't be built in low sec. This would restrict them to only large corp/alliances then as a small corp couldn't build them 0.0 (Very risky) Restricting Moms from low sec restricts Moms to large allainces. Agreeded, not many small corps have Moms but lets at least give them a chance?! Also imho Mom's should be in low sec, even if its camping a gate and ulta hard to kill. Thats why low sec is there .. RISK. If you can't afford to loose your ship, don't fly it.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:31:00 - [107] Originally by: Noxious IV Thats why low sec is there .. RISK. If you can't afford to loose your ship, don't fly it. Yes, that's what people are asking for - either kick them out completely, or add some RISK for MOM pilots Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Wideen Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:41:00 - [108] nerf whatever ship I'm not flying!! Originally by: P'uck I know somebody who heard somebody say that an Osprey defeated Chuck Norris. Twice. Need I say more?
Lydia Brightlance Gallente M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:47:00 - [109] Have a look here and see if this would solve the problem to everyone's satisfaction: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=583734
Kieran Jarnush	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:50:00 - [110] Edited by: Kieran Jarnush on 28/08/2007 10:52:37 my propose would be to remove simply the ewar invulnerability of those ships in lowsec since they'll be guardened by sentries anyway.

Shin Ra Origin Unknown.	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:54:00 - [111] With the new changes to mothership sig radius, it should be much more feesible to bump + hotdrop some dreads.
Loocoh Seven.	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:10:00 - [112] This is indeed an issue that needs to be fixed, sooner or later, either nerf motherships or negate them using any offensive mods in lo-sec. I would prefer the 2nd option.
Kiowa Potawatomi Himitsu Kaizoku Zaibatzu	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:44:00 - [113] Well ask ignoramus he really thinks he's good. "Legend" as he calls himself for soloing in a nyx in low sec against frigs, cruisers, BS. MS that cant be scrammed in lowsec should and will eventually be only used in 0.0 as its intended purpose of fielding Squads of BS in hostile systems and as a rolling station and not as a solo kill mobile invicible gankmobile.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:57:00 - [114] Originally by: Noxious IV People seem to be MISSING A POINT. If Motherships were not allowed in low sec, then they couldn't be built in low sec. This would restrict them to only large corp/alliances then as a small corp couldn't build them 0.0 (Very risky) Restricting Moms from low sec restricts Moms to large allainces. Agreeded, not many small corps have Moms but lets at least give them a chance?! Also imho Mom's should be in low sec, even if its camping a gate and ulta hard to kill. Thats why low sec is there .. RISK. If you can't afford to loose your ship, don't fly it. Lol. MOMs ALREADY can ONLY be built in a POS in a sector where your alliance holds sovereignty. It already is an alliance exclusive weapon as much as Titans. There is plenty of Risk in low sec, for anyone BUT Mothership pilots... ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Muah Diib	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:07:00 - [115] quit ***in and play the **in game. it should stay as it is no changes. its dumbass whiners like this guy who get an unwanted patch in game
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:54:00 - [116] Originally by: Muah Diib quit ***in and play the **in game. it should stay as it is no changes. its dumbass whiners like this guy who get an unwanted patch in game Unwanted by whom? By you? I should say I am very pleased to be responsible that patches unwanted by you are added to the game ;) ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Susan Acid	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:13:00 - [117] Originally by: Muah Diib quit ***in and play the **in game. it should stay as it is no changes. its dumbass whiners like this guy who get an unwanted patch in game I don't see anything 'Dumb' or 'whiney'.All I see is your own ignorance at a blatantly flawed game mechanic.Let me explain. CCP made it possible to warp scramble(by placing bubbles)MoMs because they were overpowered/near invincible ships.Result-MoMs are not overpowered/near invincible anymore. Bubbles can't be placed in 0.4 sec but a MoM can operate there.Result-Overpowered/near invincible ship. Is that simple enough for you to understand?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:33:00 - [118] Originally by: Markus Aurelian Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Markus Aurelian Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Warp 500 frigates from various locations at 0 onto the ms, have it smartbomb them, and have the wrecks bump it. Then, after a week of crying, CCP will change it so you can fly through wrecks. its already being changed, its in the patch notes. You don't know why it's being changed, do you the why doesnt affect the results does it Change MoM to Titan and do the same thing, that's why it has been changed =P (aka it was a joke)
Highpriest Aden	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:40:00 - [119] Allright then. What about to really test out what it takes to kill a mom on the testserver? first and foremost we need a mom pilot that have all the good faction caprechargers, rigs, faction bombs ect ect. I would love to take up the challange against such a ship. Anyone wanna sign up for such an idea? mom pilot, capital ships pilots is needed. and people who wanna "hopefully" see a good boom. and "gordon cain" Why do you think I made a post in the game dev. section? I wanna make the right people OPS for the proplem, the devs should realize the proplem they will have on their hands, sorry. they allready have on their hands. I do belive they are working on the proplem, but will we first see the "fix" in the next big patch? Or next again? Proplem is just that I dislike thise supercaps with their minni faction DD's that is ramming the gate, so the noobs dies. I have been in the game for the past 4 years. I know that I haft to scout evrywhere I go. But... a corpmate lost his ships with evrything he had made sofar "3 months old", no biggie, I replaced his ISK, but he was extremly ***ed about it. IMO is see it to be close to griefing. There is no point in sitting on a gate popping evrything that moves in 216 billion isk ships + faction equipment. each ship prolly costs 20 bill. Why CCP?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:43:00 - [120] To pose solutions requiring a dozen capships and dozens of battleships is fairly ignorant in this case: such a fleet won't move un-noticed. A mothership pilot isn't going to hang around long enough to see if the 20 battleships that just jumped in are properly equiped to deal with a mothership: the mothership pilot is just gonna bail (and likely write up a post about how awesome he was for avoiding an obvious trap.) As well outlined here, the problem with MOMs is not their firepower or their toughness...but their ability to operate in a portion of space where they can 100% disengage at will.

Eric Nolani Valiant Logistics Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:51:00 - [121] MS aren't as invincible as you think in lowsec. Yea u cant bubble them, but bumping is effective enough, and getting their cap down so they cant jump isnt hard either. Annnnnd..a 30-40bil ship has every right to be tough to kill. Once I start seeing multiple MS and titans on lowsec gates though I'm gonna think ppl are overdoing it! ;) ------------------------------------------- ôDoesnÆt it **** you off to be beat at your own game!ö û MUDVAYNE æSilencedÆ
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:57:00 - [122] Originally by: Eric Nolani Yea u cant bubble them, but bumping is effective enough, and getting their cap down so they cant jump isnt hard either. A mothership that's being bumped by a capship is going to cyno out. A mothership that sees numbers in local jump as a vampire fleet jumps in is going to cyno out. Any ship that requires gross negligence/incompetence on the part of the pilot to be defeated (and we're not talking "oops, I made a little mistake and died," we're talking "well, I went friggin' afk and came back to my MOM out of cap and surrounded by capships") has a bit of a balance problem I think. And really, it's not even the ship itself. It's just the fact that it can enter space where it can disengage at will and wreak ultimate havok until such a fleet appears to make it run.
Ivor Gunn	Posted - 2007.08.28 22:08:00 - [123] Originally by: Alt 363 To all the idiots who say "lolol just bump and nos it" go ask 0utbreak about the time they tried to kill establishments nyx in lowsec some months ago. And then ask RA 'n' Co. what happened when they tried to kill in 0.0 a couple of days after. There's too much of an inbalance between the absolute invulnerability in lowsec and the incredible vulnerability in lowsec. Just look at Hera's activity in the weeks before it died. Before the engagement where it is actually killed - it takes over 5 pages to find even a moderate-sized engagement in 0.0, and nothing like a large engagement is anywhere in sight. EST aren't stupid, the mothership stayed mostly outside of 0.0 because there's a massive, massive, massive risk to the use of supercaps in 0.0, and next to no risk in lowsec. Dictor bubbles are just waaay too overpowered in the holding down of supercaps. There's absolutely no defense against them, and they cost nearly nothing. IMO there needs to be a capital-sized scrambler module introduced, or a specialised capital interdictor that can scramble in lowsec, just to level the playing field.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.28 22:30:00 - [124] Originally by: Garreck A mothership that's being bumped by a capship is going to cyno out. A mothership that sees numbers in local jump as a vampire fleet jumps in is going to cyno out. Any ship that requires gross negligence/incompetence on the part of the pilot to be defeated (and we're not talking "oops, I made a little mistake and died," we're talking "well, I went friggin' afk and came back to my MOM out of cap and surrounded by capships") has a bit of a balance problem I think. And really, it's not even the ship itself. It's just the fact that it can enter space where it can disengage at will and wreak ultimate havok until such a fleet appears to make it run. this dude is on the ball
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.08.28 22:30:00 - [125] Originally by: Ivor Gunn Originally by: Alt 363 To all the idiots who say "lolol just bump and nos it" go ask 0utbreak about the time they tried to kill establishments nyx in lowsec some months ago. And then ask RA 'n' Co. what happened when they tried to kill in 0.0 a couple of days after. There's too much of an inbalance between the absolute invulnerability in lowsec and the incredible vulnerability in lowsec. Just look at Hera's activity in the weeks before it died. Before the engagement where it is actually killed - it takes over 5 pages to find even a moderate-sized engagement in 0.0, and nothing like a large engagement is anywhere in sight. EST aren't stupid, the mothership stayed mostly outside of 0.0 because there's a massive, massive, massive risk to the use of supercaps in 0.0, and next to no risk in lowsec. Dictor bubbles are just waaay too overpowered in the holding down of supercaps. There's absolutely no defense against them, and they cost nearly nothing. IMO there needs to be a capital-sized scrambler module introduced, or a specialised capital interdictor that can scramble in lowsec, just to level the playing field. The bigger the punch, the bigger the risk. Motherships are not to be flied solo. They are fleet ships. And in fleets they are not too vulnerable at all. If you fly solo in 0.0 and a dictor AND a dread fleet catch you, mate, well, you had it coming. If you don't have the balls to take risks don't pilot expensive ships. Simple as that. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Salr Ayshuermei Amarr Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.08.29 09:12:00 - [126] Edited by: Salr Ayshuermei on 29/08/2007 09:13:05 The price of a ship is never a justification for it to be immune to destruction. I remember it wasn't that long ago when CCP nerfed stabs so people couldn't fit all their lows with them and jump out at the first sight of danger. But that's exactly how supercapitals are. They have in essence an infinite number of stabs fitted. You can't bubble in low sec, so there's no way to hold it down. A mothership is a huge investment, but it should also be a huge risk to use. They really should be fleet ships, with bonuses to gangs and support abilities to make a fleet better. Motherships should not be solo pwnmobiles where you don't need any support and can camp gates without a worry of ever being even put in danger.


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