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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Cheekybiatch
Dark-Rising
0
   |
Posted - 2012.08.14 01:29:00 -
[1201] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hello capsuleers! One of the things we want to do in the releases later this year is adding new modules to the game. We're looking into what areas to delve into and I would love to hear what ideas you guys have. To give a little bit of framework and to get the ball rolling, here are a few keywords:
Scripts
Heat
EW
Drones
Fitting/Slots
Area of Effect
One-use (consumable) modules
We're looking for anything ranging from small variations of existing modules to completely new functionality. While you're free to suggest whatever you want (including stuff not related to the list above), it's the latter part (new functionality) that is of the most interest right now (as it likely takes the longest to implement). Thanks in advance, SoniClover
Dictor bubbles that:
- Web
- Cancel your passive cap recharge
- Make signatures bigger
Hull reps and hull resists.
True Heatsinks that take all the heat on the ship but have a massive amount of heat HP
More static mobile bubbles.
Bubbles that can move between 2 anchorable points, not sure why sounds like fun though.
Reverse Ganglinks.
Mobile Gang link Modules
Mobile System deboosters (reverse ganglinks)
Mobile Signature inverters.
Mobile portal generators (can fire to objects in the same system without being next to it however allows frig size vessles to enter.
Mobile Radio Jammer (no more local).
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JohnnyRingo
TunDraGon
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 03:47:00 -
[1202] - Quote
Implant Scanner Module:
-Scans the implants of a pod, so one can ransom pods accurately
-Acts as contraband in highsec, sort of like drugs
-Possible sec hits for using the scanner (to keep it a low sec affair)
Cynosural Field Distruptor/Jammer
-Makes the targeted ship unable to open up a cyno
The ability to use logistic drones on your self.
Thermal Paste
-Consumable 1 hour duration
-Decreases heat damage taken by 15/30/45% depending on what kind ( like drugs, normal/improved/strong )
Targeted Microwaves / Laser beam ( whatever you want to call it )
- Causes 5/10/15/20/25% ( Skill level possibly ) damage to random module every cycle ( ship size would matter )
- Script to target Low/Mid/High slot
Heat Damage reduction rig
- useless, trimarks/extenders here i come ( just throwing it on the table)
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Aurai Anthar
Sucker Punch.
Double Tap.
0
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Posted - 2012.08.14 07:00:00 -
[1203] - Quote
Okay I dunno if its been suggested before, But heres something ive been thinking about for some time.
In short :Area of effect pulse that shuts down a ship ( think emp from the matrix)
In a tad more depth: (just making this up as i go) Think of it like a smart bomb, perhaps with a spool up. requires one cycle to charge, then on next activation fires, however there is a catch, completely drains cap. and will only remain charged for lets say 20 seconds? maybe less? 10? or just make it like an armour rep and it fires at end of like a 30 second cycle.
Now there could be different types, or make it script based for effects.
One shuts off engines, sublight and warp for X time so ship is in drift, one offlines guns/bays perhaps. Im not entirely sure.
Im basicly thinking along the lines of a super close range aoe tackle/ cap warfare/ ecm type gig.
Possible uses, sat in cloak, some reds get too close for comfort, de cloak and drop the pulse. there engines shut off for x amount of time and you can do what you will, either run or kill, providing you dont pop as they can still shoot at you.
Or maybe use it for warp in, new probing ship role? charge mid warp, deploy on landing right in the middle of a blob, take out their engines.
And make it less effective on larger ships, eg, if a frig (so small size) fires it, other frigs engines will be out for. 20s but a battleship would only be lets say 3?
And to stop this being spammed, perhaps make it like a cov ops cloak, can only be used on certain ships, like the cov ops frigs,
but even then would only just fit? perhaps a role for possible new destroyers?
If the veterans think this is preposterous and should be forgotten about let me know, if you think that it could work with a serious overhaul also suggest that, I'm interested to see how everyone feels about this idea? |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery
Team Liquid
223
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 16:15:00 -
[1204] - Quote
JohnnyRingo wrote:Implant Scanner Module:
-Scans the implants of a pod, so one can ransom pods accurately
-Acts as contraband in highsec, sort of like drugs
-Possible sec hits for using the scanner (to keep it a low sec affair)
Cynosural Field Distruptor/Jammer
-Makes the targeted ship unable to open up a cyno
The ability to use logistic drones on your self.
Thermal Paste
-Consumable 1 hour duration
-Decreases heat damage taken by 15/30/45% depending on what kind ( like drugs, normal/improved/strong )
Targeted Microwaves / Laser beam ( whatever you want to call it )
- Causes 5/10/15/20/25% ( Skill level possibly ) damage to random module every cycle ( ship size would matter )
- Script to target Low/Mid/High slot
Heat Damage reduction rig
- useless, trimarks/extenders here i come ( just throwing it on the table)
I like these, except for the cyno disruptor. We all know why tundragon wants that.
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JohnnyRingo
TunDraGon
30
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Posted - 2012.08.14 22:24:00 -
[1205] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:I like these, except for the cyno disruptor. We all know why tundragon wants that.
Well, to be fair, it can also be used against us  |
Jason Sirober
Vestige of Vehemence
Dragon Swarm Dynasty
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 15:45:00 -
[1206] - Quote
Here's a thought
The idea of repping shields by sending waves of energy at a ship or using the capacitor is a good concept. However repping armor with waves of energy does not make sense since the nanobots supposedly materialises out fo thin air to rep the armor.
They should make armor reppers use 'ammo' called nanites (similar to nanite paste). Each armor rep module has a capacity for certain amount of nanites and uses them to make repairs while using some cap to 'activate' each one. A repping cycle would consume 1 nanite per x amount of HP repped and if you wish to overload it instead of causing heat damage, all you do is use like 4 nanite per 1.5x amount of HP thus draining your charge of nanites quicker. If the nanites is depleted you can reload them from the cargo bay. Larger modules will have bigger capacity since they have to rep more but then the stored nanites have to be more to compensate for bigger ships
Loggies would fire a 'missile like' charge that contains pre-activated (by loggie cap) heavy-duty nanobots that starts to rep the target as soon as it hits over a couple of seconds maybe to make a HoT effect.
Also then when the onboard repper is out of nanites and out of spares in the cargo, the loggie ship can send another 'missile like' charge that when hit transfers nanites into the cargo bay and starts to reload the repper to start the repping cycle again.
There can be a similar HoT effect for shields my launching a 'missile like' pod towards the target and starts seeping shield energy as soon as it hits. (but then shields already have a HoT called passive regen  )
Any feedback would be nice since it's my first post |
Sultar Moreash
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:33:00 -
[1207] - Quote
How about a 'Warp Signature Analyser'?
If you have a target locked and it warps, the device would allow you to analyse the "warp signature" that they punched through space and be informed of where they have warped to... either as a bookmark or the name of a gate/planet/station, etc
A tech II version might allow you to follow them into warp. (possibly overtaking them if you warp quicker).
This would make escaping from combat much more difficult.
Or a tech II version might let you analyse the signature of all ships that have warped from your current location (without having targetted any of them in the first place) .. this would be great for tracking prey (useful for bounty hunters!)
A complimentary module would be a 'Warp Signature Dissipator' or 'Stealth Warpdrive' which would mean that your leave no warp signature which can be analysed.
Also how about a 'Warp Overdrive' module which significantly increases warp speed?
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Sultar Moreash
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.15 16:48:00 -
[1208] - Quote
How about a "Tracking Device".
Might be fired by a "Expanded Probe Launcher" or a new "Tracking Device Launcher", it would attach itself to the target shp and then allow you to track the target. If the target is in the same system as you, the probe might give you a bookmark of the target's current location. If the target is in a different system, it might show the target on the star map. A whole range of different tracking probes could be offered giving a variety of lifespans and tracking range.
e.g.
current system tracking device- can only track ships within the current solar system
short range tracking device- can only track ships within 3 jumps of your current system
medium range tracking device- can only track ships within 7 jumps of your current system.
long ranget tracking device- can track targets up to 10 jumps from your current system.
Different probes could have different lifespans before they stop working (internal battery runs out!) e.g
15 minutes
1 hour
4 hours
1 day
Further variants of the tracking devices may or may not work if the target docks.
So rather than destroy your target outright, you could follow them, see where they like to go, etc in the hope of finding lucrative trade routes (if tracking a trader) or setting an ambush at some time in the future. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
398
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:48:00 -
[1209] - Quote
Already asked, but... Hull HP rigs on the same order as CDFEs and trimarks. |
Sultar Moreash
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:52:00 -
[1210] - Quote
How about a 'Market Research Drone"?
You would program the droneto warp to a designated system and lookup the price of a designated product.
You would launch the drone and have to wait for it to warp to it's destination (the further away the destination, the longer the wait). You would then get an evemail from the probe once it had reached it's destination and looked uop the price. The probe would then be lost once it had completed it's mission |
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Sultar Moreash
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.15 16:58:00 -
[1211] - Quote
How about a script for a tracking computer that can increase the optimum range and/or falloff of your turrents? |
Vakr Onzo
Elite Amarr Navy Academy
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 17:07:00 -
[1212] - Quote
How about herding your scattered ideas and fencing them in one single neat post?  |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery
Team Liquid
232
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 21:20:00 -
[1213] - Quote
Sultar Moreash wrote:How about a script for a tracking computer that can increase the optimum range and/or falloff of your turrents?
This exists? |
kano donn
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 03:28:00 -
[1214] - Quote
Another kind of Remote Rep capability.
Rather then repairing your tank like our current modules do, this mod would simply give the target additional shield or armor.
It would stack with all current logistics bonuses.
If your additive repair were to keep a target alive past the point where the unrepped version would be dead, the ship will stay alive until you remove your rep.
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Andy Landen
Born Crazy
Kadeshians
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:50:00 -
[1215] - Quote
Remote Shield Extender module - Medium slot - Can only be fit by logistics ships and carriers - A ship extends its shields to also cover a target ship. All damage is equally split between the target ship and the extending ship before considering resists to each ship in the chain. Each ship's resists filter out their share of the damage before being applied to their shields. Once the shields of a ship reach 0%, the module deactivates and damage is applied to armor.
If ship's A, B, and C activate the RSE on ship D, then damage to D is shared with A, B, and C (damage divided by 4) until A, B, or C 's shields reach 0%, at which time damage will not be shared with that ship because it has no shields to extend and the module must deactivate. 1200 damage to D yields 300 damage to each ship A-D, minus each ship's respective resists.
Anything that kills the lock or the activation of the module (cap), counters this module. Any alpha great enough to equal the primary's structure EHP + armor EHP + shield EHP * n (where n is the number of ships extending their shields to it) will alpha the primary plus inflicted some damage on the extending ships as well. |
Boris2k
The Guardian Knights
EntroPraetorian Aegis
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 06:33:00 -
[1216] - Quote
An obvious one seems a script for the Target painter, Range or Intensity, |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
166
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 16:19:00 -
[1217] - Quote
capital ewar/ecm mods. supercaps can be immune to normal subcap ecm/ewar but vulnerable to capital ewar/ecm mods.
whether these capital ecm/ewar would have huge effects on subcaps is debatable. but if so you could introduce this to make sure its not OP'd:
if midslot tackling/ewar/ecm could also get tracking attributes that would help small ship combat in large fights too. and with that you could expand the range of all these mods to small med and large like other mods... with different strengths and tracking attributes.
small ships couldnt fit large tackling mods for example, unless its a crazy fit on a t2 ceptor bonused to reduce tackling mod fitting requirements.
large ships could fit more powerful mods but their tracking is slower and smaller ships can get under the tracking to survive.
this would add a new level of ewar/ecm to all tiers of combat all the way from frigs to titans, whilst making small ship combat more viable in larger situations, and aiding in making more roles and tactical opportunities for carriers both in subcap fights and supercap fights.
and it would also aid in the tactical opportunities to fight against massive supercap blobs without submitting to the rediculous game breaking idea of 1000's of ec300 drones permajamming supercaps. |
Atata Kaiko
Odyssey Inc
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 17:47:00 -
[1218] - Quote
Drone Repair Bay (Small, Medium, Large and Capital); repairs like-sized (in the case of Capital, Fighters and Fighter-Bombers) or smaller drones while docked with the ship and the module is active. This would also require that the armor and hull damage levels be visible for docked drones.
Auxiliary Systems Pods (Low/Mid/High) each add one slot to the respective level, at the expense of increasing the CPU and energy cost of all same-level modules by 10%. It would be even cooler if you had some pod grafted onto the side of your ship haphazardly making your already asymmetric ship look like some mutant barfed it up. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1000
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 17:58:00 -
[1219] - Quote
I like the idea of an anti-cloaking pulse and vampire slayers you already have. You just need to give them to the players.
I think it would also be cool to have more area of effect deployable bubbles. Why not a web bubble? Why not a bubble to cloak a fleet? Maybe in response you can release a type of combat scanner probe that takes a lot of work to lock down a signal, but can identify cloaked patches of space?
The bubbles could even have effects on one another (this would provide a sort of de-facto stacking penalty, introduce a rainbow of new tactics, and make things much more dynamic on the battlefield.... imagine iterons full of various kinds of bubbles at your next fleet engagement to get an idea). Maybe if you put a webbing bubble next to a drag bubble the overlapping sections of those two bubbles double velocity and give +3 to warp stability. Maybe there could be a large area of effect bubble that puts a gentile force on ships away from it's center, and that force is proportionate to the size of the ship. You could create a battle space that effectively denies supers access since they would be catapulted away from the bubble space. You could make these bubbles 300km across! There is so much you could do with deployable bubbles to really shake up the game and make it a lot more fun and dynamic. I think you should get on it right away, CCP!
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Atata Kaiko
Odyssey Inc
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 18:53:00 -
[1220] - Quote
This would be a HUGE change but change the %damage mods to reflect how much damage get's through instead of dissipated into space, except that the percentages are cumulative against the total (not what gets through each layer).
For example, if my basic T1 ship took 100hp of Explosive damage, then 50hp (50%) of the damage would applied to shields; the armor another (10%) 10hp and the hull a whopping 40hp (100% - 50% - 10% - 0%). With a basic T1 Damage Control Unit, my ship's situation would improve; the shields would take 57.5hp, the armor 20hp and the hull would take no damage (total damage has dropped from 100hp to 77.5hp).
Then, allow modules to take damage based on armor and hull damage versus the amount of hit points the ship has; either ablatively (averaged) or randomly. Modules take damage the same as they would heat damage, and be be repaired the same way (nanite paste). Armor and hull repair systems should then be buffed a little to also repair medium and low level modules in addition to simply adding hp (this means these units can also repair against overloading).
Now we have some room for a new module: force-fields. reflect damage into space and occupy high slots (like weapons). A basic T1 force field might give 10% resistance, and a T2 unit 20%. Force-fields are active modules and extend beyond the range of the ship to protect others (like POS shields). Unlike POS shields they do not have hit-points and never have massive resists. The radius of the shield would be 1000m for small, 2000m for medium, 4000m for large and 8km for capital force fields. Only friendly ships (fleet/corp/alliance) can enter the field, everyone else ping-pongs off like any current ship collision.
Could make for some entertaining engagements where a blob gets "dispersed" by a neutral ship dropping a force field in the middle of an engagement. Boom, everyone's pushed outwards.
This would also coincide well with my other suggestion of having exterior heat-sinks (high slot modules; which could also be called something like ablative armor to not be confused with the low-module weapon upgrade of the same name). It can absorb both thermal damage from high module system overloading as well as adding to the general armor hit-point pool (although not nearly as well as armor plates), allowing for ships with spare high slots to opt for a little more tank instead. Heat sinks cannot be repaired and by absorbing the damage, will disintegrate over time. This requires routine replacement of the heat-sinks if equipped. |
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Marcus Harikari
Guitar Players of EVE
72
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 20:11:00 -
[1221] - Quote
Max Von Sydow wrote:Disguise module.
Allows you to disguise your ship as another ship of the same race and similar size.
Similar drawbacks as cloak.
Uses scripts to select disguise.
rofl epic
way in for this roflmao |
Lelob
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
54
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 01:48:00 -
[1222] - Quote
Change drone omnidirectionals to lowslots, or create a drone module akin to a tracking enhancer for the lowslot, and then change the omnidirectional to use scripts for drone optimal/drone tracking. Having omni's only in the midslots makes it extremely difficult to properly fit a drone boat that can have drones that are hard hitting and track well, to the point that its almost always better to just try and use a turret based ship instead. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
431
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 11:14:00 -
[1223] - Quote
Some New Drone Modules, Rigs, Pills, Implants, Ship Bonuses, Whatever:
Drone Command Module: Gives increased chance of drones actually obeying your commands and not moving off to do something else.
Drone Deployment Module: Decreases time for drones to undock from ship and also redock.
Drone Sensor Booster: Decreases time it takes for drones to start moving to target once deployed
Drone "Keep at Range" Module: Allows drone to "keep at range" on target to apply dps. This is a 2-in-1 module. 1. It allows drone to "keep at range", and 2. It allows drones to stay moving and not turn off mwd when attacking a target (stays with target all the freaking time).
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Andy Landen
Born Crazy
Kadeshians
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 12:27:00 -
[1224] - Quote
Remote Sensor Manipulation module - medium slot - boosts or damps sensors of remote ship based on loaded script (same as already available for the respective modules). Affected by ship bonuses of celestes, lachesis, and arazu. |
Lili Lu
353
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 15:59:00 -
[1225] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Some New Drone Modules, Rigs, Pills, Implants, Ship Bonuses, Whatever:
Drone Command Module: Gives increased chance of drones actually obeying your commands and not moving off to do something else.
Drone Deployment Module: Decreases time for drones to undock from ship and also redock.
Drone Sensor Booster: Decreases time it takes for drones to start moving to target once deployed
Drone "Keep at Range" Module: Allows drone to "keep at range" on target to apply dps. This is a 2-in-1 module. 1. It allows drone to "keep at range", and 2. It allows drones to stay moving and not turn off mwd when attacking a target (stays with target all the freaking time).
Or some of these fixes could just get built into the present drone stats and AI. That list looks painful on available slots. 
|
Lili Lu
353
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 16:06:00 -
[1226] - Quote
Is there a reason you left out skills? The game could always use more skills (speaking as one of the over 100m sp crew).
CCP has tried to nerf ecm twice already and at the same time you rebuffed ecm boats to compensate. I do not think you can succeed at nerfing it, and logis do need to fear and compensate for ewar anyway, whether ecm or damps. Simultaneously the game could always use new skills. Presently there are skills to increase lock range and lock speed, tracking range and tracking speed, but there are not skills to reduce signature or increase sensor strength.
I propose that you consider introducing sensor integrity skills (e.g. ladar sensor integrity, etc.) and a skill for a very slight decrease in signature radius. The sensor integrity skills do not have to be very much percentage. Just so long as they provide some slight relief against getting jammed it would help even the playing field v other ewar and ewar boats.
As long as the sig skill does not wipe out the increase that will come from improved painting boat percentage it would be a good addition to the game.
As for the eccm skills they would help 1. reduce the rage against and op'd ness of ecm, and 2. increase the relative utility in fitting an eccm module. This indirect nerf to ecm boats is probaly the best way to address that ongoing problem.
Simultaneously, please consider altering the eccm modules themselves. Possibly make them a combo of a small whole number bonus and a percentage bonus on top. This might make these modules worth fitting on BCs and below. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
434
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:29:00 -
[1227] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Or some of these fixes could just get built into the present drone stats and AI. That list looks painful on available slots. Here's a few more including:
1. Assign E-war drone module: Allows you to assign ewar drones to a fleet mate.
2. Drone ewar amplifier module: Increases drone ewar effectiveness by 15%
3. Return Abandoned Drone Rig: Drone warps back to you after you have left field.
4. Drone Frigate Tracking Module: Increases chances of drone actually applying dps to interceptors if drones are the main anti-frigate defense on your ship (you lack a high utility slot for energy neutralizers for example).
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Andy Landen
Born Crazy
Kadeshians
59
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:31:00 -
[1228] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Is there a reason you left out skills? The game could always use more skills (speaking as one of the over 100m sp crew).
CCP has tried to nerf ecm twice already and at the same time you rebuffed ecm boats to compensate. I do not think you can succeed at nerfing it, and logis do need to fear and compensate for ewar anyway, whether ecm or damps. Simultaneously the game could always use new skills. Presently there are skills to increase lock range and lock speed, tracking range and tracking speed, but there are not skills to reduce signature or increase sensor strength.
I propose that you consider introducing sensor integrity skills (e.g. ladar sensor integrity, etc.) and a skill for a very slight decrease in signature radius. The sensor integrity skills do not have to be very much percentage. Just so long as they provide some slight relief against getting jammed it would help even the playing field v other ewar and ewar boats.
As long as the sig skill does not wipe out the increase that will come from improved painting boat percentage it would be a good addition to the game.
As for the eccm skills they would help 1. reduce the rage against and op'd ness of ecm, and 2. increase the relative utility in fitting an eccm module. This indirect nerf to ecm boats is probaly the best way to address that ongoing problem.
Simultaneously, please consider altering the eccm modules themselves. Possibly make them a combo of a small whole number bonus and a percentage bonus on top. This might make these modules worth fitting on BCs and below.
Has anyone mentioned ECCM rigs yet? We should have skills which increase the effectiveness of ECCM and ECM modules. I mention ECM modules, because the only skill I can recall affecting them are ones which reduce cap use, and increase optimum range. Rigs and low slot modules increase ECM strength but I can't recall any skills which do. To be honest, I think we should combine PECCM with ECM all into one RECM (Remote ECM, for standardized naming conventions) module with scripts. The scripts will be: type PECCM or type ECM, where type could be multi or grav/ladar/radar/etc. (forgot the last one). The scripts affect the stats of the module. The ship bonuses for falcon, rook, BB, scorp, etc. apply to this module. Same idea for combining RSB with RSD (previous thread) using scripts and ship bonuses applying to this new module. There could be capital versions for use on a new ewar captial. New skills for that one too. |
Lili Lu
354
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 21:15:00 -
[1229] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Or some of these fixes could just get built into the present drone stats and AI. That list looks painful on available slots. Here's a few more including: 1. Assign E-war drone module: Allows you to assign ewar drones to a fleet mate. 2. Drone ewar amplifier module: Increases drone ewar effectiveness by 15% 3. Return Abandoned Drone Rig: Drone warps back to you after you have left field. 4. Drone Frigate Tracking Module: Increases chances of your light drones actually applying dps to interceptors if drones are the main anti-frigate defense on your ship (you lack a high utility slot for energy neutralizers for example).
I like your sarcasm. I thought I was alone in making such posts. You are now my buddy in that regard.
Anyway, definitely the AI and interface with drones needs lots of work. And some more drone rigs or even a few new mods. |
Cid SilverWing
Tactical Stables
Nulli Tertius
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 03:56:00 -
[1230] - Quote
Cloak Disruption Field
Upon firing, offlines and disables all cloaking within 250km of the host ship for X minutes, cannot refire for Y minutes, like a mini-Doomsday. High Slot module, only fits to a specialized Battleship.
There's nothing in EVE to counter cloaks except gatecamps with a million drones circling the area. I really am tired of being camped by 1 imbecile in a bomber alongside 10 other miners with no way to fight back. |
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