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Still no fix for cloaking?

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Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 00:52:00 - [1] Originally by: Sertan Deras Okay, so I am going to use your own logic against you: What is the counter to PvE ships needing to fit entirely different builds to effectively PvE, limiting their PvP capability and making them completely vulnerable to being destroyed? Right now that counter is a cloak and a safe spot, but if you get your way, there is no counter. I am left completely open to being destroyed because I have no way to run and hide and my ship sure isn't going to stand up to a couple of well fit PvP ships, because of the way the game is balanced. You could say a POS, but not every system ahs a POS and most individual players can't afford one. So now, because you dislike the capability of the average ratter to not get ganked by the gang of HAC's that just jumped in, I should either a) have to rat in systems with POS's, or b) put my wang out in the wind and possibly lose my 200m ISK ratting ship to some jerk off in a HAC because I have no reasonable way to fit a PvP setup on my PvE ship and still be able to actually kill rats. So basically what you are asking for is the ability to hunt down high value rats in low sec without any risk of losing your ship? Because that is how cloaking currently works; you warp away to any spot you like and hit the button and you are completely undetectable. Might i ask how exactly the proposed changes to the cloaking system would completely void your current setup?
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 01:11:00 - [2] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Has anyone ever been killed by an afk player? Or even a cloaked one, am fairly sure a recon ship needs to "uncloak" in order to target anyone. Although one time...I did kill a drake while still under gatecloak You got to love CCP servers and their desync problems Can you imagine the guy trying to work out what was shooting him. I couldn't move my ship to decloak, but I could lock and activate all modules. Obviously the server logs showed no problem Anyway...cloaking is not a problem, no need to fix it. However, macro miners/ratters are a problem, and oh what a shame it is not to be able to farm for 23 hours because a hostile recon is system Not asking for a modification to the current cloaks. Just the ability to use scan probes to find people who are cloaking. And please keep in mind that this would not affect those ships which are supposed to be undetectable like recons and cov ops ships. I have no problem with a cloaked recon in system spying on people, but cloaked farmers are a different issue.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 01:18:00 - [3] If people would read the OP they would see that this change is not about nerfing the cloaking devices. Cloaks are fine as they are, it's the fact that there is currently no way to find someone who is cloaked that is the problem. The proposed change would not alter anyones ship setups, it would simply mean you would have to be alert when you are cloaking around.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 01:26:00 - [4] Scan probes are a much better solution to this problem since it does not change anything for those that do use the cloaking devices, combined with the fact that the people that trained the skills to use cloaking devices put a fair amount of time into training the skills, and for someone to track down a cloaker who is not afk would be difficult without equally good probe skills. And if you are afk cloaked, well, don't cry when someone probes you out; afking in EVE = Death in almost all situations.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 01:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Filipa Gomez If u allow the scan probe of cloakers u might as well remove them from the game, cause such devices will become obsolete! Who will want to cloak in some place when u can be scanned and warped to u! No one will use them!! Let me lay out a theoretical situation for you, assuming scan probes were in the game. You are cloaked in a system and a hostile warps in and proceeds to probe you out. Now if you are paying attention then you will have no problem staying one step ahead of whoever it is chasing you since he has to first launch the probe, get the results, then warp to your location. At best just warping to you would take about 10-15 seconds; more than enough time to escape, or if you don't like that option then just fly your ship in a straight line, when the prober warps in he will arrive at your former destination, not your current one. And this is assuming that he actually has decent probe skills and is flying a ship designed for probing (a frigate) So now you have a pesky frigate chasing you, with very little chance to catch you. And for those that don't have probe abilities your cloaking device is still just as effective as it was.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 01:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Filipa Gomez U must be the one that has the probe market under control cause i only see u talkin about probes! No I'm simply staying on topic with the OP and with the Dev statements. Cloaking devices don't need a nerf. I would much rather see functionality and diversity increase in eve rather then a never ending strong of nerfs.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 01:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Raynaar Fk a nerf... boost the counter that's not strong enough.... -Ray Thank god someone who read the OP. People, this thread is not about cloaking devices, but rather the ability to probe out those who are using non-covert ops cloaks.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 02:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 29/08/2007 01:56:12 But why should a covert ops be allowed to stay invulnerable all day? If a pilot isn't there, his ship should be allowed to be killed. Allowing them to be probed does nothing to harm safed recons or cov opses; they can warp away, or hell, set their speed to 100m/s and be practically untouchable again. However, if they go AFK, they could be found, decloaked, and killed. No AFKer should ever be safe, unless he is in a POS or station. Because those ships are designed to be spy ships. Neither of them have much potential outside of their class specific roles. The force recon ship is meant to sit around and open cyno's and the covert ops frigate is a probe ship, which must sit around to wiat for it's probe results.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 02:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Marux Because those ships are designed to be spy ships. You stop being a spy the second you go AFK. Your argument of the cloakers "operating within their role" goes straight out of the window with that one. Quote: The force recon ship is meant to sit around and open cyno's I thoroughly lol'd. Quote: which must sit around to wiat for it's probe results. Yeah, which its perfectly safe to do, as long as it doesnt go AFK for hours at a time. I understand what you are saying here, but the thing is you must be willing to accept a compromise if you want anything changed at all.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 02:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Marux I understand what you are saying here, but the thing is you must be willing to accept a compromise if you want anything changed at all. Allowing them to be probed, but not scanned IS a compromise. It beats the living **** out of suggestions like making cloaks use cap, which would utterly screw actual cloaking snipers and the like. Though i'd still like to see them nerfed with an increase in the penalties for fitting a cloak Being able to scan cloaked ships was never suggested. And the main issue here is the people who invest a paltry ammount of SP to fit a regular cloak to their BS and then go farming with no real risks. Fitting a covert ops cloak on the other hand takes a tad bit more time. And until we can find a solution that would be fair to those who have spent the ammount of time to get into a covert ops ship, we should probably focus on being able to detect the non covert ops.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 02:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Kraken Lord Any change to cloaking devices will never happen, ur time spent on the forums to change them is futile! What a shame that this thread isn't about changing the cloaking devices, but rather scan probe mechanics. Guess my time isn't being wasted after all.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 02:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Marux And until we can find a solution that would be fair to those who have spent the ammount of time to get into a covert ops ship, we should probably focus on being able to detect the non covert ops. How is it unfair? If you're not AFK, and not a complete and utter turd, you could easily avoid any attempts to find you. It's fair in the way that MS' and titans are immune to EW. But carrier and dreads aren't. I just want the devs to implement what they have already talked about.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 02:53:00 - [13] Also, to clarify what exactly this nerf was supposed to be, please read the OP here: Cloak Nerf Petition
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 03:15:00 - [14] If you guys are just going to attack each other verbally please take it somewhere else so we can keep the thread on-topic. Also, for those who would like reference to the dev posts You can see them here
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 03:36:00 - [15] And a proposed counter was planned by devs in this thread, to be launched with a previous patch, but it was removed before the patch hit.
Marux	Posted - 2007.08.29 05:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Marux What a shame that this thread isn't about changing the cloaking devices, but rather scan probe mechanics. Guess my time isn't being wasted after all. You don't honestly think you can talk about 1 w/o talking about the other. You want to discuss a solution for a problem you claim to not want to talk about. Must not be that much of a problem I apologize for that post being off topic and I have since removed it. Also, I have been talking about both of these things. It is my personal belief that what is needed here is for CCP to continue with its plan to make scan probes capable of detecting non-covert cloaked ships, and not to "nerf" cloaking devices. The current cloaking devices work fine aside from the fact they offer complete invulnerability from someone trying to track down a ship fitted with even the lowest level of cloaking device.

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