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Still no fix for cloaking?

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Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:33:00 - [1] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 19:35:10 When are we going to get a fix for cloaking? In it's current implementation it's very un-eve-like. There are no counters for cloaking ships - A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them. Where is the counter to this? Where does the balance lay? No other weapon or defensive system in game has no counter, so why do we continue to allow this module to exist in game without a counter? What purpose does this module serve that can't still be accomplished with an active player?
Zombie Network GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:39:00 - [2] Not broken. No fix coming or required.
Semkhet Saudarkars	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:39:00 - [3] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 19:35:10 When are we going to get a fix for cloaking? In it's current implementation it's very un-eve-like. There are no counters for cloaking ships - A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them. Where is the counter to this? Where does the balance lay? No other weapon or defensive system in game has no counter, so why do we continue to allow this module to exist in game without a counter? What purpose does this module serve that can't still be accomplished with an active player? LMAO: Now it's the inactive players who need to be nerfed... U must really be good at EVE to fear afk players. Get a clue: if there's no balance in your brain, no amount of EVE's "fixing" will compense it
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:41:00 - [4] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 19:44:23 Originally by: Zombie Network Not broken. No fix coming or required. Originally by: Semkhet LMAO: Now it's the inactive players who need to be nerfed... U must really be good at EVE to fear afk players. Get a clue: if there's no balance in your brain, no amount of EVE's "fixing" will compense it I guess you could claim that, but I can't see anyone pretending this isn't an issue, especially one that replies without answer to several pointed questions... I also don't see this going away, no matter how hard many of you try to cling to what amounts to as an exploit.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Winterblink on 28/08/2007 19:46:51 sigh Ok then, lets answer those questions. To everyone else, pardon my quote-o-rama. Originally by: Christari Zuborov There are no counters for cloaking ships - A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them. Where is the counter to this? A counter to what, someone logged on and not doing anything? Originally by: Christari Zuborov Where does the balance lay? He's doing nothing. Therefore there's nothing to balance. Originally by: Christari Zuborov No other weapon or defensive system in game has no counter, so why do we continue to allow this module to exist in game without a counter? What do you want, a forcible way to scan and decloak the person? That seems a bit extreme of a counter to a module which does nothing to you in response. Originally by: Christari Zuborov What purpose does this module serve that can't still be accomplished with an active player? If he's inactive, he might as well not be logged on since there's that much of an effect on you and your game. Thus he's doing nothing to warrant a response, or a counter. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Ikthorn Balhar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:47:00 - [6] sigh This has been debated far too much to still have people asking about it. What exactly is 'un-eve-like' about it? Are you part of the design team and decide what is and isn't supposed to be in EvE? A cloaked player that is inactive poses no immediate threat to you or your mates. "But, they could be spying on us!!!" you could say, and that's the exact role of Covert Ops ships. Deal with it. There are ways to deal with cloaked players; you either wait them out (eventually they'll have to log), or you and your mates get more proficient at using scanning techniques and probing so that you may get to them quickly if/when they get uncloaked. It's frustrating not being able to get the cloakers, but it's also frustrating to have someone at a safespot and not having a someone in gang who can probe them out. Are you going to ask to be able to probe safespoted ships with the onboard scanner too now?
Fswd	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:48:00 - [7] Zzzz...BORING --- Free exotic dancers for mods that mod my sig Snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected]) <-- freebie for you
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Nicho Void on 28/08/2007 19:49:31 EDIT: Winterblink beat me to it Originally by: Christari Zuborov When are we going to get a fix for cloaking? We aren't. Nothing broken, no fix required, as stated above. Originally by: Christari Zuborov There are no counters for cloaking ships - A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them. Where is the counter to this? Where does the balance lay? No other weapon or defensive system in game has no counter, so why do we continue to allow this module to exist in game without a counter? Weapon? This may be your problem here. Explain to me how someone who, as you pointed out, is completely inactive, can be a weapon in any way? Originally by: Christari Zuborov What purpose does this module serve that can't still be accomplished with an active player? Again, who says the AFK cloaker is attempting to accomplish anything other than avoid detection...which ::gasp:: is what a cloak is designed to do? ---------------
4rc4ng3L Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 19:35:10 A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them. Where is the counter to this? So you want a counter to the afk guy who can do nothing but be afk... Jesus, get a grip ------------------------------*
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 19:44:23 Originally by: Zombie Network Not broken. No fix coming or required. Originally by: Semkhet LMAO: Now it's the inactive players who need to be nerfed... U must really be good at EVE to fear afk players. Get a clue: if there's no balance in your brain, no amount of EVE's "fixing" will compense it I guess you could claim that, but I can't see anyone pretending this isn't an issue, especially one that replies without answer to several pointed questions... I also don't see this going away, no matter how hard many of you try to cling to what amounts to as an exploit. Its not an issue, you people are just complaining to complain. You want a way to find people not at the keyboard, and in a weakened state, so you can get an easy kill. AFK cloakers are harmless, they fly 10 m/s - 50 m/s, cannot target, cannot fire, cannot warp (except recons of course). The penalties to cloaked are already high enough to allow them to sit and float where ever they damn well please. Now, if you want to be able to scan them out, they should be able to target and fire without coming out of cloak.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:59:00 - [11] So have ppl been whining about this ever since beta? or did they just run out of other things to whine about so they decided to pick cloaking? When I first started back in January there were rarely any if even 1 anti-cloaking thread.. then a few months later and thats all there is here now.. So it seems that once the Drone regions were being successfully looked at.. something else needed to be whined about.. In come the titans with their valid whainage about being overpwoered with remote DDD And the sudden problem with AFK cloaking that didn't seem to be a problem less then a year ago ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Maniva Lakona	Posted - 2007.08.28 19:59:00 - [12] If AFK cloakers cause you so much hassle maybe you should play another game, anyway.... STOP THE BLOODY CLOAK POSTS! Jesus.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Maniva Lakona If AFK cloakers cause you so much hassle maybe you should play another game, anyway.... STOP THE BLOODY CLOAK POSTS! Jesus. Indeed. It's right down there, in terms of raw annoyance factor, with people who are afk docked. warp drive active \| nature vraie
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:01:00 - [14] next you will ask offline players to get nerfed ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:04:00 - [15] To the OP: I've argued the same point as you for years. Those who deny there is a problem with afk cloaker really don't get it. Apparently, they are all PVP/Pirate types who don't consider a cloaked recon a threat. All I can say is that CCP is apparently not going to make a counter to cloaked ships. Nor are they gonna nerf Cloaked battleships and capitals. I do sympathize, and saw a single afk scout who was in system 23/7 for weeks completely shut down any industrial activity in a system. But between the blind ignorance of those who won't see the problem, and CCP's lack of tools to do anything about it, I think we're screwed.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:11:00 - [16] Originally by: Princess Jodi To the OP: I've argued the same point as you for years. Those who deny there is a problem with afk cloaker really don't get it. Apparently, they are all PVP/Pirate types who don't consider a cloaked recon a threat. All I can say is that CCP is apparently not going to make a counter to cloaked ships. Nor are they gonna nerf Cloaked battleships and capitals. I do sympathize, and saw a single afk scout who was in system 23/7 for weeks completely shut down any industrial activity in a system. But between the blind ignorance of those who won't see the problem, and CCP's lack of tools to do anything about it, I think we're screwed. Lol, this reminds me of that one fan-made flash movie about Revelations. All those ships floating around all peacefully, than one red jumps in and the entire system goes to ****e. OMG, ITS A RED! LOCKDOWN! LOCKDOWN!
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Princess Jodi To the OP: I've argued the same point as you for years. Those who deny there is a problem with afk cloaker really don't get it. Apparently, they are all PVP/Pirate types who don't consider a cloaked recon a threat. All I can say is that CCP is apparently not going to make a counter to cloaked ships. Nor are they gonna nerf Cloaked battleships and capitals. I do sympathize, and saw a single afk scout who was in system 23/7 for weeks completely shut down any industrial activity in a system. But between the blind ignorance of those who won't see the problem, and CCP's lack of tools to do anything about it, I think we're screwed. Please remember to differentiate between cloaked recons with CovOps 2 cloaks and every other ship with a cloaking device.. err Oh wait.. you dont care.. you want an across the board nerf ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Princess Jodi To the OP: I've argued the same point as you for years. Those who deny there is a problem with afk cloaker really don't get it. Apparently, they are all PVP/Pirate types who don't consider a cloaked recon a threat. All I can say is that CCP is apparently not going to make a counter to cloaked ships. Nor are they gonna nerf Cloaked battleships and capitals. I do sympathize, and saw a single afk scout who was in system 23/7 for weeks completely shut down any industrial activity in a system. But between the blind ignorance of those who won't see the problem, and CCP's lack of tools to do anything about it, I think we're screwed. oh this must be a joke post a single person - shutting down any industrial activity for weeks - ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Illyria Ambri So have ppl been whining about this ever since beta? or did they just run out of other things to whine about so they decided to pick cloaking? When I first started back in January there were rarely any if even 1 anti-cloaking thread.. then a few months later and thats all there is here now.. So it seems that once the Drone regions were being successfully looked at.. something else needed to be whined about.. In come the titans with their valid whainage about being overpwoered with remote DDD And the sudden problem with AFK cloaking that didn't seem to be a problem less then a year ago It started when cloaks dropped ~75% in price CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Princess Jodi To the OP: I've argued the same point as you for years. Those who deny there is a problem with afk cloaker really don't get it. Apparently, they are all PVP/Pirate types who don't consider a cloaked recon a threat. All I can say is that CCP is apparently not going to make a counter to cloaked ships. Nor are they gonna nerf Cloaked battleships and capitals. I do sympathize, and saw a single afk scout who was in system 23/7 for weeks completely shut down any industrial activity in a system. But between the blind ignorance of those who won't see the problem, and CCP's lack of tools to do anything about it, I think we're screwed. the answer you're looking for i beieve is: GO TO EMPIRE
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:51:00 - [21] Originally by: sharkyballs Edited by: sharkyballs on 28/08/2007 20:35:44 Originally by: Princess Jodi To the OP: I've argued the same point as you for years. Those who deny there is a problem with afk cloaker really don't get it. Apparently, they are all PVP/Pirate types who don't consider a cloaked recon a threat. All I can say is that CCP is apparently not going to make a counter to cloaked ships. Nor are they gonna nerf Cloaked battleships and capitals. I do sympathize, and saw a single afk scout who was in system 23/7 for weeks completely shut down any industrial activity in a system. But between the blind ignorance of those who won't see the problem, and CCP's lack of tools to do anything about it, I think we're screwed. the answer you're looking for i beieve is: GO TO EMPIRE if you still need someone to hold your hand No hand holding required here, apparently lots of hand holding required elsewhere however. Not one person in this thread has answered the questions I posed. We've all heard the cookie cutter (I have no capability to think outside a wet paper bag) answer of, "Oh, if they are afk, then they aren't a threat!" This isn't what was asked, matter of factly, I posed the questions in manner purposely because I don't care about afk individuals. I care about individuals sitting at the PC, inactively avoiding detection (as no attention is required) vs. legions of individuals actively searching for them. There is imbalance, and I'm asking CCP when there will be a fix, so as inactive players can't avoid active players, across the board. Recons, CovOps, Type IIs, none of them should ever inactively be able to avoid legions of active individuals. Actively, you should continue to enjoy the benefit of your CovOps/Recon ship.
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:00:00 - [22] your question has been answered. the point of a cloak is to not be found. it's no different than not having one if you can probe it out. ie. i get in a safespot unclocked i CAN be probed and if i get in a safespot and cloak i CAN be probed. before you say "can't think outside of a wet paper bag" you should learn to ask outside of a wet paper bag.
Okonaa	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:10:00 - [23] Edited by: Okonaa on 28/08/2007 21:11:26 actively...you are an CLICKME!
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:17:00 - [24] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 21:17:28 Originally by: sharkyballs your question has been answered. the point of a cloak is to not be found. it's no different than not having one if you can probe it out. ie. i get in a safespot unclocked i CAN be probed and if i get in a safespot and cloak i CAN be probed. before you say "can't think outside of a wet paper bag" you should learn to ask outside of a wet paper bag. Please tell me how someone (Recon/CovOp) actively avoiding being found, could be found, if probing of cloaked ships were allowed? Give it to me in step by step detail sweetheart. I'll save you the time by telling you, you can't be found. So again, we go back to being inactive, where's the balance?
Sertan Deras Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 21:17:28 Originally by: sharkyballs your question has been answered. the point of a cloak is to not be found. it's no different than not having one if you can probe it out. ie. i get in a safespot unclocked i CAN be probed and if i get in a safespot and cloak i CAN be probed. before you say "can't think outside of a wet paper bag" you should learn to ask outside of a wet paper bag. Please tell me how someone (Recon/CovOp) actively avoiding being found, could be found, if probing of cloaked ships were allowed? Give it to me in step by step detail sweetheart. I'll save you the time by telling you, you can't be found. So again, we go back to being inactive, where's the balance? You are still not differentiating the difference between a normal cloak and CovOps cloak. CovOps cloaks may have offensive usage, but normal cloaks are a defensive mechanism. What's the point of the normal cloaking device if you can just probe out a ship sitting at a safe spot cloaked? Oh that's right, there is no point....might as well remove it from the game.
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Christari Zuborov I don't care about afk individuals. I care about individuals sitting at the PC, inactively avoiding detection (as no attention is required) vs. legions of individuals actively searching for them. There is imbalance, and I'm asking CCP when there will be a fix, so as inactive players can't avoid active players, across the board. Recons, CovOps, Type IIs, none of them should ever inactively be able to avoid legions of active individuals. Actively, you should continue to enjoy the benefit of your CovOps/Recon ship. Wtf, how many people do you know that sit at their pc and do nothing? and even if they did isn't that the same as being afk? Tbh I don't understand what you are trying to say.
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:30:00 - [27] the paper bag thing again dude, if it can be probed or otherwise found, what's the point of the module. it's not a balancing issue "sweetheart". it's a wtf is the use of a cloak issue. afk or not. your looking to kill the entire nature of said cloak if any of them can be probed. and again, it has been said in the thread. you are penalized just for having it attached to your ship. it is balanced "sweetheart". you either just want an easy kill, or can't come up with anthing better to be ****ed about in this game. if you'd like i'm sure several people in this thread would be more than willing to point you in the direction of a real argument, cause it just sounds to me like you're whining.
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Sertan Deras Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 21:17:28 Originally by: sharkyballs your question has been answered. the point of a cloak is to not be found. it's no different than not having one if you can probe it out. ie. i get in a safespot unclocked i CAN be probed and if i get in a safespot and cloak i CAN be probed. before you say "can't think outside of a wet paper bag" you should learn to ask outside of a wet paper bag. Please tell me how someone (Recon/CovOp) actively avoiding being found, could be found, if probing of cloaked ships were allowed? Give it to me in step by step detail sweetheart. I'll save you the time by telling you, you can't be found. So again, we go back to being inactive, where's the balance? You are still not differentiating the difference between a normal cloak and CovOps cloak. CovOps cloaks may have offensive usage, but normal cloaks are a defensive mechanism. What's the point of the normal cloaking device if you can just probe out a ship sitting at a safe spot cloaked? Oh that's right, there is no point....might as well remove it from the game. Well if we want to go the tit-for-tat route to prove points, then what good are warp stabs vs. disrupters? How about cap boosters vs. neutralizers? or Webifiers vs. MWDs? or TDs vs. Mag field stabs? or Sensor Boosters vs. Remote Dampenors? All of these have one thing in common, a counter. Should we eliminate all of these items because, heaven forbid, there's a counter? What difference is there between a uncounterable defense and a unstoppable offense? Both are unbalanced...
Sertan Deras Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Originally by: Sertan Deras Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 28/08/2007 21:17:28 Originally by: sharkyballs your question has been answered. the point of a cloak is to not be found. it's no different than not having one if you can probe it out. ie. i get in a safespot unclocked i CAN be probed and if i get in a safespot and cloak i CAN be probed. before you say "can't think outside of a wet paper bag" you should learn to ask outside of a wet paper bag. Please tell me how someone (Recon/CovOp) actively avoiding being found, could be found, if probing of cloaked ships were allowed? Give it to me in step by step detail sweetheart. I'll save you the time by telling you, you can't be found. So again, we go back to being inactive, where's the balance? You are still not differentiating the difference between a normal cloak and CovOps cloak. CovOps cloaks may have offensive usage, but normal cloaks are a defensive mechanism. What's the point of the normal cloaking device if you can just probe out a ship sitting at a safe spot cloaked? Oh that's right, there is no point....might as well remove it from the game. Well if we want to go the tit-for-tat route to prove points, then what good are warp stabs vs. disrupters? How about cap boosters vs. neutralizers? or Webifiers vs. MWDs? or TDs vs. Mag field stabs? or Sensor Boosters vs. Remote Dampenors? All of these have one thing in common, a counter. Should we eliminate all of these items because, heaven forbid, there's a counter? What difference is there between a uncounterable defense and a unstoppable offense? Both are unbalanced... Accept that none of the defenses you listed have inherent harsh penalties like a cloak, which is their balancer. When my BS is cloaked, I creep along, I can't warp, I can't target, I can't shoot. That's the balance. I am just stuck there in cloak, doing nothing. That's the counter balance. Recons and CovOps are different and they are supposed to be that hard to detect, that's their purpose.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 21:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Zombie Network Not broken. No fix coming or required. QFT -=^=-

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