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RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:15:00 - [151] Originally by: PostWithYourMain Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 29/08/2007 03:16:35 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 29/08/2007 03:08:56 When are we going to get a fix for cloaking? In it's current implementation it's very un-eve-like. There are no counters for cloaking ships - A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them. Where is the counter to this? Where does the balance lay? No other weapon or defensive system in game has no counter, so why do we continue to allow this module to exist in game without a counter? What purpose does this module serve that can't still be accomplished with an active player? [Edit: I'm not going to waste your time with some huge diatribe, my question is straight to the point. I'm willing to keep this on page 1 until I hear an answer, one way or another, as to why there's no counter to an uncounterable defensive system. What difference is there in this vs. an unstoppable ship? Both are unbalanced...] For those who believe the devs aren't going to change things even slightly... And a link for the words directly from the Devs themselves Cloaking needs to be fixed? There was no further word beyond one single statement about the possibility of probing cloaks on TEST. Leave it alone. Noone promised anything. Here...have a crunchy biscuit and have some extra cheese for it . /binds F1-cloak to the chuckle-o-meter "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Ildryn Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:34:00 - [152] Originally by: Leighanne Edited by: Leighanne on 29/08/2007 01:38:31 If your a pirate and complaining that you can't gank mission runners cause they just SS and afk cloak for an hour till you get bored - cry me a river - your a pirate you deserve to have you gameplay ruined every now and again since you do it to others so often. All part of the game. Post with your main or stfu Because a pirate chose the Pirate profession he deserves to be put off ? Risk vs reward dont risk lowsec unless you want the rewards it brings Nerf all but the Cov-ops cloaks allow them to be scanned down....and stop letting alts post
SisterBliss The Red Exhilez	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:51:00 - [153] wow so much whining about cloaks, oh noes there's invisible ship unable to attack, warp or move faster than a few m/s which is not doing anything to anyone quick nerf it!!
soulstripper Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:25:00 - [154] Who gives a sh**.I can't understand ure whine .Cry baby cry
zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:39:00 - [155] to the op, i'm a bit confused by your argument and would like clarification on a couple of points Quote: Well if we want to go the tit-for-tat route to prove points, then what good are warp stabs vs. disrupters? How about cap boosters vs. neutralizers? or Webifiers vs. MWDs? or TDs vs. Mag field stabs? or Sensor Boosters vs. Remote Dampenors? All of these have one thing in common, a counter. Should we eliminate all of these items because, heaven forbid, there's a counter? What difference is there between a uncounterable defense and a unstoppable offense? Both are unbalanced... all four of those items you list also have at least 2 other things in common 1 they require you to be actively engaged in combat to have any effect and 2 they are specifically designed to reduce your ability to attack or defend while actively engaged in combat. my question is, how does a cloaking device fit either of these criteria? a cloak isn't designed to reduce you ability to attack or defend while actively engaged in combat. in fact a cloaked pilot absolutely cannot engage you in combat while cloaked. and 2 Quote: Name 1 other utility module in game that directly effects another players play that requires ZERO effort to maintain, with ZERO opportunity to counter it, there is none! And how do they whine and complain when someone points to dev posts and ask why it wasn't put into the patch?! this also confused me a bit, my question is.. Name 1 other utility module in game that directly effects another players play? for the life of me i can't see how someone sitting, hidden from view in a safe spot has an effect on you. ----------------------------------------------- I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum"
Scouteye Ghost Vanguard	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:42:00 - [156] hes an argument for you! whats the counter to probes............ a CLOAK! there you go, BALANCE! jeee wizzz, its not that hard to figure out really! and a NERF to fitting requirments or effects on your ship IS a counter, hence the changes to NOS, or stopping tanking with cyno ships train a cloak and fly one for a while, you'll soon see it dont need nerfed.
Shiftless Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:57:00 - [157] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Its not an issue, you people are just complaining to complain. You want a way to find people not at the keyboard, and in a weakened state, so you can get an easy kill. AFK cloakers are harmless, they fly 10 m/s - 50 m/s, cannot target, cannot fire, cannot warp (except recons of course). The penalties to cloaked are already high enough to allow them to sit and float where ever they damn well please. Now, if you want to be able to scan them out, they should be able to target and fire without coming out of cloak. Ummm... I know I'm stepping into this one a few pages late and all but... "No." I fly a Manticore. It move 300m/s uncloaked and close to 500m/s cloaked. I can lock and activate modules as soon as I start the decloak process. I can fit T2 Cruise Missiles. I like popping haulers, barges and poorly tanked exhumers with one salvo of missiles. The easy way to accomplish this is to jump into a hostile system, safe up, cloak, and go watch a movie. No one can find me, so I am perfectly safe, and I've essentially stopped all industrial production in the system simply because I can warp to an offgrid bookmark at a belt, fly in to w/i 20km of a floating Covetor, and within' 10 seconds put the pilot into his pod, recloak, move away a little, and warp off to another belt. Yes. Stealthed players are weapons even when they aren't at the keyboard. The stop the industrials from doing what they do because they have zero counter to them. You don't know when they're at the keyboard, you don't know when they're not. You don't know (if they're halfway intelligent) if they're orbiting you at 10km. Does cloaking need a "nerf"? Nope. It works fine. Do probes need s "buff"? Yup. Simply put, no one person should be able to use the cloaking device as an "I Win" button.
Shiftless Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:57:00 - [158] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Its not an issue, you people are just complaining to complain. You want a way to find people not at the keyboard, and in a weakened state, so you can get an easy kill. AFK cloakers are harmless, they fly 10 m/s - 50 m/s, cannot target, cannot fire, cannot warp (except recons of course). The penalties to cloaked are already high enough to allow them to sit and float where ever they damn well please. Now, if you want to be able to scan them out, they should be able to target and fire without coming out of cloak. Ummm... I know I'm stepping into this one a few pages late and all but... "No." I fly a Manticore. It move 300m/s uncloaked and close to 500m/s cloaked. I can lock and activate modules as soon as I start the decloak process. I can fit T2 Cruise Missiles. I like popping haulers, barges and poorly tanked exhumers with one salvo of missiles. The easy way to accomplish this is to jump into a hostile system, safe up, cloak, and go watch a movie. No one can find me, so I am perfectly safe, and I've essentially stopped all industrial production in the system simply because I can warp to an offgrid bookmark at a belt, fly in to w/i 20km of a floating Covetor, and within' 10 seconds put the pilot into his pod, recloak, move away a little, and warp off to another belt. Yes. Stealthed players are weapons even when they aren't at the keyboard. The stop the industrials from doing what they do because they have zero counter to them. You don't know when they're at the keyboard, you don't know when they're not. You don't know (if they're halfway intelligent) if they're orbiting you at 10km. Does cloaking need a "nerf"? Nope. It works fine. Do probes need s "buff"? Yup. Simply put, no one person should be able to use the cloaking device as an "I Win" button.
annoing Amarr MisFunk Inc. Frontline.	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:21:00 - [159] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 29/08/2007 03:16:35 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 29/08/2007 03:08:56 When are we going to get a fix for cloaking? In it's current implementation it's very un-eve-like. There are no counters for cloaking ships - A player who is completely inactive, sitting in system indefinitely, can avoid detection from active players hunting or scouting for them. Where is the counter to this? Where does the balance lay? No other weapon or defensive system in game has no counter, so why do we continue to allow this module to exist in game without a counter? What purpose does this module serve that can't still be accomplished with an active player? [Edit: I'm not going to waste your time with some huge diatribe, my question is straight to the point. I'm willing to keep this on page 1 until I hear an answer, one way or another, as to why there's no counter to an uncounterable defensive system. What difference is there in this vs. an unstoppable ship? Both are unbalanced...] For those who believe the devs aren't going to change things even slightly... And a link for the words directly from the Devs themselves I'm sorry, did you manage to miss the other 1k+ threads about this? Nothing wrong here, move along now .. ty
Taurequis Waylander 01	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:34:00 - [160] Remove, Local, Channel. Problem solved.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:40:00 - [161] Originally by: Taurequis Remove, Local, Channel. Problem solved. ha ha ha no.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:48:00 - [162] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 29/08/2007 13:53:44 Originally by: Christari Zuborov When you actually get a covert ops boat, why don't you come back and let us know how this went. lol, here we go making ASSumptions. You already lost the argument as soon as you ASSume someone that is almost a year old can't fly a Covert Ops.... Quote: This is completely false... You can't even scan down a ship without a cloak fitted and lock it if it's warping between safes. Guess what? I don't care if YOU DO warp between safes, at least I have the satisfaction the player on the other side sees me coming and has put forth some damned effort! I'm not interested in 'nerfing' the mechanic, I want an actual mechanic to exist where one doesn't. CovOps/Recon ships will still enjoy a 100% invulnerability, so long as they maintain the slightest effort in avoidance - that's fair, it's balanced, and it's needed to be done like YESTERDAY. The post is completely in regards to players who aren't actively avoiding being scanned down. Repeat that to yourself a couple of times, no activity in avoiding being scanned down. If you don't try, you should be found. If you don't at least put some effort into what you're doing, you should be had. There's no reason to allow this un-eve-like activity to continue, and we're fed up with it! What happened to the patch we were promised? What is the status of this update? This post remains on page 1 until we hear an answer. Fine, you don't want to nerf someone at the keyboard. And what of explorers? You know, those people that sit in systems for hours at a time trying to find exploration sites? That can't warp or you ruin your scan? That many times DO NOT use a Covert Ops because they are working solo or in small groups and a Covert Ops cannot survive exploration sites? And what of those that are using cloaks to actually DO THEIR JOB? YOu know, Intel work? Gathering lists of ships and players, how they react? Where they hang out? You know, the ones that sneak closer to the enemy while under cloak? It IS semi-difficult to actually see what ships the enemy is flying when you are warping between safes. And no, you can't just "OMFG! A probe, lets warp until it goes away" with many probes lasting for over a hour. Since the scanner won't tell you its a Multi-spectral instead of a Spook. Everyone is whining about the big, bad, evil AFK cloaker that is destroying their Carebear activities and won't let them mine/rat alone in DANGEROUS 0.0 space but a cloak nerf of ANY kind will hurt many legitimate players who don't care what happens in 0.0 and couldn't give a rat's ass about "your" territory. Play together, defend your people and ADAPT. If you CAN'T defend your people from one cloaked ship then you really should admit to being the carebear you are and move back to Empire. The only reason they are there is because it is effecting you. Deal with it. Gads, and all these big 0.0 PvPers call US Carebears. Next time don't let them through your gatecamps Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:16:00 - [163] cloaking is not a problem, at most it is a nuisance. the same people that complain about afk cloakers are the same that won't undock with a hostile in system, that don't pvp without a blob blah blah blah. YOU ARE WEAK IF YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH IT. quit whining and set a trap, smack the guy, if nothing happens, your carebear self can undock and go about your day. cloaking is not broken, it works just as it should and was intended to, and has no real reason to change except that the whiners just can't deal with it.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive Animal.	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:16:00 - [164] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Play together, defend your people and ADAPT. If you CAN'T defend your people from one cloaked ship then you really should admit to being the carebear you are and move back to Empire. The only reason they are there is because it is effecting you. Deal with it. Gads, and all these big 0.0 PvPers call US Carebears. Next time don't let them through your gatecamps Lovely <3. That's really all that needs saying here.
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:18:00 - [165] Edited by: sharkyballs on 29/08/2007 14:19:10 Originally by: Scouteye hes an argument for you! whats the counter to probes............ a CLOAK! there you go, BALANCE! jeee wizzz, its not that hard to figure out really! and a NERF to fitting requirments or effects on your ship IS a counter, hence the changes to NOS, or stopping tanking with cyno ships train a cloak and fly one for a while, you'll soon see it dont need nerfed. PROBING CLOAKS IS NOT A COUNTER TO CLOAKS, IT IS AN I WIN BUTTON AGAINST THEM.
VinnyTheBull	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:24:00 - [166] Explain how this is balanced. 8 guys in cloaked ships camp the gate to the 0.0 space that your alliance owns and sits there all day. When they feel like it, they uncloak and blast any ships coming through the gate into your system. Now that they are active and shooting your people you decide to fight back and remove them from their 23/7 gate camp. Oh no, they just cloaked again, I guess they can just go afk until your force leaves then continue to blast people entering the system when you leave. Rinse and repeat. The cloaked ships fight completely on their terms, If they don't feel like fighting they leave their computer, go watch t.v. or play on their other accounts then come back when your gone. The noncloaked ships looking to remove the pests from their systems have no way of engaging the claoked ships, all they can do is camp their gate 23/7, which requires them to be active that entire time at their computers. The cloaked ships however can be afk anytime they feel like it safe and sound until the attackers leave. Why would it be bad to have probes that can slowly detect where a cloaked ship would be? They would practically be ineffective against a cloaked ship is piloted by someone paiyng half attention and moving their ship around. It would only really be effective against someone afk not moving for hours.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:36:00 - [167] Originally by: VinnyTheBull Why would it be bad to have probes that can slowly detect where a cloaked ship would be? They would practically be ineffective against a cloaked ship is piloted by someone paiyng half attention and moving their ship around. It would only really be effective against someone afk not moving for hours. Because probes show the location of the target when the probe ENDS. Meaning even if they were "moving around" you will drop right on top of them and decloak them because they won't get out of de-cloaking range even at full speed. This means that anything but a Covert Ops cloak is now completely ineffective. If by "moving around" you mean warping between safes, then they can't cloak and warp at the same time unless they are in a covert ops/recon and their combat ability is already seriously hurt. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:42:00 - [168] All you ppl that want to probe out cloaked ships... Say a cloaker is assigned to watch an enemy stargate.. but with your anti-cloak probes.. he keeps getting chased away. Other then monitoring local how is an intel gathering ship supposed to gather intel when he is being constantly chased and cannot sit still for more then 2 minutes w/o having an entire gang warp in on him? What will you whiners do if the non covops cloaks do get "probable" but you still get cloakers sitting in your system. Going to start the whine about covops cloaks then to get them nerfed.. since you still can't find them? Just admit the fact that you want to be able to kill cloaking spies at whim. Remove local and your problems are solved ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:42:00 - [169] Edited by: Elmicker on 29/08/2007 14:43:32 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Fine, you don't want to nerf someone at the keyboard. And what of explorers? You know, those people that sit in systems for hours at a time trying to find exploration sites? That can't warp or you ruin your scan? That many times DO NOT use a Covert Ops because they are working solo or in small groups and a Covert Ops cannot survive exploration sites? To use your own future argument: Work as a team. Initiate the scan only with scouts covering your arse and accurate intelligence on the surrounding area. If you're sitting still, carebearing in an area where you're likely to be shot at, then frankly, you deserve to be shot at. Quote: And what of those that are using cloaks to actually DO THEIR JOB? YOu know, Intel work? Gathering lists of ships and players, how they react? They would be unaffected, assuming they never sit still for hours at a time and go AFK. Quote: And no, you can't just "OMFG! A probe, lets warp until it goes away" Why not? They're hunting you, you have to avoid them or engage them. Quote: Play together, defend your people and ADAPT. If you CAN'T defend your people from one cloaked ship ... The OP is about how a defense gang was unable to engage cloaked sniping battleship gangs. How further are they to adapt and work as a team if not to form up a defense gang in response to a hostile incursion? The actual request made is for a method that would require the absolute utmost in teamwork. Cloakers would be difficult to probe, you would land multiple kilometres from their position. You would have to organise your gang into sweeping an area in an attempt to decloak the contact. Any covert ops or recon could warp off or simply fly away. The only ships at actual risk are ships that are AFK, or ships that should not be fitting a cloak - namely cloaking ratting battleships.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:54:00 - [170] I'm sorry, did you manage to miss the other 1k+ threads about this? Nothing wrong here, move along now .. ty Guessing you didn't see that part about wanting an update?
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:54:00 - [171] Omg did I log into hello kitty online?!! The amount of carebares in this thread is astonishing, never mind that every one of them is posting with every alt he has. If this turns into F1-Cloak safe online, or hell used for greffing, the amount of people that will leave will be tremendous not to mention that bad reputation. The problem now is used and exploited by a few people, but now its becoming the new WCS!! I say nerf it to hell and back it didnÆt make sense before and now its ruining evry pvpers game experience. I used to hunt people in their home systems in 0.0, I didnÆt care if thy blobbed I gave them respect for that thy put in the effort. Thy warp to POSes its ok they put in the effort. Now I go a well known alliance or corp deep in 0.0 and best thy do is F1 and smack in local ?! wtf!? Crappie wow mentality, and it will change carebares it will, CCP dose not want a safe game and u aint gona get it.
VinnyTheBull	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:55:00 - [172] Originally by: Illyria Ambri All you ppl that want to probe out cloaked ships... Say a cloaker is assigned to watch an enemy stargate.. but with your anti-cloak probes.. he keeps getting chased away. Other then monitoring local how is an intel gathering ship supposed to gather intel when he is being constantly chased and cannot sit still for more then 2 minutes w/o having an entire gang warp in on him? What will you whiners do if the non covops cloaks do get "probable" but you still get cloakers sitting in your system. Going to start the whine about covops cloaks then to get them nerfed.. since you still can't find them? Just admit the fact that you want to be able to kill cloaking spies at whim. Remove local and your problems are solved Why do all of you use these stupid arguments with no common sense. "oh if there is probes that can find cloaked ships it is too easy cloaks are pointless because this example I'm about to give you that shows how stupid I was and unable to adapt to anything made my cloaked ship easily found" Probes designed to find cloaked ships would not be easy to use like the probes that are used to find uncloaked ships. They would make it balanced so there is a chance of finding a cloaked ship if you are working together with your gang. Please stop using stupid arguments like it won't work because my stupid reason A combined with my inability to adapt for once since now there is something fair against cloaks.
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:55:00 - [173] Originally by: Sir Scorpion Omg did I log into hello kitty online?!! Stop it. The joke is old. ---------------
VinnyTheBull	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:00:00 - [174] Originally by: Sir Scorpion Omg did I log into hello kitty online?!! The amount of carebares in this thread is astonishing, never mind that every one of them is posting with every alt he has. If this turns into F1-Cloak safe online, or hell used for greffing, the amount of people that will leave will be tremendous not to mention that bad reputation. The problem now is used and exploited by a few people, but now its becoming the new WCS!! I say nerf it to hell and back it didnÆt make sense before and now its ruining evry pvpers game experience. I used to hunt people in their home systems in 0.0, I didnÆt care if thy blobbed I gave them respect for that thy put in the effort. Thy warp to POSes its ok they put in the effort. Now I go a well known alliance or corp deep in 0.0 and best thy do is F1 and smack in local ?! wtf!? Crappie wow mentality, and it will change carebares it will, CCP dose not want a safe game and u aint gona get it. Seriously every person who is defending cloaks is a coward and only wants to engage on their own terms without any risk of dieing at all. That is not what EVE is. I am sorry to break it to you cloaking carebears. Anti-cloak probes would not be an instant win I found you your dead button. They would add balance to them. If you want to saddle up and play PVP then you have to actually take some risks. That is how it should be. You should not be able to go into enemy space and fight when you "feel like it". If your going to come into hostile space and the owners of that space are willing to gang up and defend it they have a right to be able to find you. You should not be able to just afk cloak until they leave then continue to harass the occupiers without any risk of being retaliated on.
sharkyballs Amarr Dkiller Delta Force Corp. Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:24:00 - [175] Edited by: sharkyballs on 29/08/2007 15:25:37 Originally by: VinnyTheBull Originally by: Sir Scorpion Omg did I log into hello kitty online?!! The amount of carebares in this thread is astonishing, never mind that every one of them is posting with every alt he has. If this turns into F1-Cloak safe online, or hell used for greffing, the amount of people that will leave will be tremendous not to mention that bad reputation. The problem now is used and exploited by a few people, but now its becoming the new WCS!! I say nerf it to hell and back it didnÆt make sense before and now its ruining evry pvpers game experience. I used to hunt people in their home systems in 0.0, I didnÆt care if thy blobbed I gave them respect for that thy put in the effort. Thy warp to POSes its ok they put in the effort. Now I go a well known alliance or corp deep in 0.0 and best thy do is F1 and smack in local ?! wtf!? Crappie wow mentality, and it will change carebares it will, CCP dose not want a safe game and u aint gona get it. Seriously every person who is defending cloaks is a coward and only wants to engage on their own terms without any risk of dieing at all. That is not what EVE is. I am sorry to break it to you cloaking carebears. Anti-cloak probes would not be an instant win I found you your dead button. They would add balance to them. If you want to saddle up and play PVP then you have to actually take some risks. That is how it should be. You should not be able to go into enemy space and fight when you "feel like it". If your going to come into hostile space and the owners of that space are willing to gang up and defend it they have a right to be able to find you. You should not be able to just afk cloak until they leave then continue to harass the occupiers without any risk of being retaliated on. so for the sake of devils advocate, what happens when recon cruisers are used to launch a probe to find a cloaked player? they can be cloaked and find the cloaker without said person even knowing what was going on. that is is also broken. probing cloaks is an i win button. you talk about balance? probing cloaks makes the module just about useless. now that's unbalancing if i've ever heard it. every person wanting to be able to probe cloakers wants an easy kill. we can go around in circles with this all day long. one makes since, the other is unbalanced. it's called reason.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:25:00 - [176] Originally by: VinnyTheBull Seriously every person who is defending cloaks is a coward and only wants to engage on their own terms without any risk of dieing at all. That is not what EVE is.I am sorry to break it to you cloaking carebears. seriously, every person who si whining abotu cloaks is a coward and only wants to engage on their own terms without any risk of dieing at all. I am sorry to break it to you whining carebears you can already deal with cloakers, you are just too busy whining about it to have any effect Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums: Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:27:00 - [177] My opinion: probably give a little chance to probe a cloak out BUT with damn high skills for the specific probes then. But if it's possible to gank players by +10 pilot gate camps it should be fair enough to stay safe by cloaking. There are loads of things in EVE which cause different opinions and a call for nerf. But it's senseless. Live with it and adapt. Even if a cloak could be probed out you can drive the pilots mad by running to 10 SS in a loop. So say we all! Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:29:00 - [178] zomg i just realised warp stabilizers let an afk hauler escape gate camps NERF WARP STABS Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums: Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:30:00 - [179] Originally by: VinnyTheBull Seriously every person who is defending cloaks is a coward and only wants to engage on their own terms without any risk of dieing at all. That is not what EVE is. I am sorry to break it to you cloaking carebears. LOL, there were go with the generalizations again. The vast majority of us don't want to engage AT ALL. A cloak is the only way to avoid engagement and still do things like exploration in LowSec or 0.0 We are still plenty capable of dying whether it is in Gate Camps, getting scanned down while in the exploration site or because we screwed up. Guess what? We even die to PCs and not just NPCs. You are so concerned about your minor issue, why don't you look at the big picture? You not feeling safe in 0.0 is threatening to nerf entire play-styles that have NOTHING do to with your supposed problem. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:32:00 - [180] Originally by: Tortun Nahme zomg i just realised warp stabilizers let an afk hauler escape gate camps NERF WARP STABS This coming from a guy that has "Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums:" in his signature. WCS were already nerfed, and it was about fracking time. Stay on topic. Non-covert ops cloaks _DO_ need to be hit with the nerf bat, and hard.

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