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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.08.30 03:16:00 -
[1]
I'm struggling with this one: the only ships I can see that will use these to any great effect would be Caracals. Every other ship class only gets the bonus given to Heavy and Heavy Assault Missiles.
Can anyone think of a good reason why ships like the Drake, Nighthawk, Sacrilege and Damnation shouldn't be given a bonus to these weapons? It would allow for much greater freedom in fitting. Look at it this way: A Brutix gets the same bonus when it fits Dual 150mm Railguns... why does the same logic not apply to these ships?
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.08.31 09:06:00 -
[2]
Over one hundred views and no responses? Does noone else see a problem with this module?
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NeoTheo
Caldari Dark Materials
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Posted - 2007.08.31 09:12:00 -
[3]
the cerberus is a ok HAM platform...
also, thekhanid ships are that sorta boat as well ;)
/theo http://atomicrain.net/eve_sig.jpg
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Hannobaal
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.31 09:15:00 -
[4]
Assault launchers are only useful against frigate size ships, and for the most part there's no real point in fitting them. ------------------
Disclaimer: Any dumbass opinions I may express in my posts on this board do not in any way reflect the opinions of my corp.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:01:00 -
[5]
They are obviously very specialized anti-frig missile launchers...
Even though nobody uses them I was dissapointed Drake didn't have the bonus for light missiles. BUT apparantly CCP decided only cruisers (not battlecruisers) should have bonus for those anti-frig launchers even though they are cruiser-sized launchers. Though Assault Launchers are better anti-frig than dual 150mm railguns due to how stuff works...
The Nighthawk has a special bonus for heavy precission so it it kind of useless fitting less than heavies anyway... - I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
Brodde Dim
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:02:00 -
[6]
I think HAMs will get boosted sooner or later. Compared to Heavy missiles:
+ HAMs do 25% more dps, with top skills.
- Heavys get 225% more range. - Both have same explosion vel. and radius but heavys get bonus from Guided Missile Precission. - Heavys have FoF ammo.
With Javelins, the HAM is on par with Heavy T1 missiles.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:04:00 -
[7]
Quote: the cerberus is a ok HAM platform...
I didn't mean Heavy Assault Missiles, merely Assault Missiles: The missile launcher with the most lenient fitting requirements for cruiser-sized ships. The only ships in the game which can take advantage of this bonus are the Caracal and it's big brother the Cerberus. No other missile ship in the game can use these modules with bonuses.
Every turret based ship can choose to fit the "dual" turrets and still have it's bonuses applied, the Caldari and Khanid ships cannot make use of their bonuses on the missile equivalent.
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Hairtrigger
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:05:00 -
[8]
I have a cerb fitted for anti frig 5 DG assaults gives a nice rof
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Brodde Dim
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cedric Diggory
Quote: the cerberus is a ok HAM platform...
I didn't mean Heavy Assault Missiles, merely Assault Missiles: The missile launcher with the most lenient fitting requirements for cruiser-sized ships. The only ships in the game which can take advantage of this bonus are the Caracal and it's big brother the Cerberus. No other missile ship in the game can use these modules with bonuses.
Every turret based ship can choose to fit the "dual" turrets and still have it's bonuses applied, the Caldari and Khanid ships cannot make use of their bonuses on the missile equivalent.
Assault missiles are used in Heavy Assault launchers.
Assault launchers use standard missiles.
Its hard to know you mean one thing when you only talk about the other =)
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:14:00 -
[10]
Quote: Its hard to know you mean one thing when you only talk about the other
My apologies, I should have made the original post clearer. I do of course refer to the Assault Launchers, which fire light missiles.
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bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: bldyannoyed on 31/08/2007 11:01:23 The dual rails you keep referring to are cruiser guns with cruiser tracking using cruiser ammo, and for the most part they suck. They are not the same thing as assault launchers which use frigate sized charges.
Assault launchers are a bit of an anomoly cos they dont really fit into either the small or medium class. And tbh, assaults on a BC would just be funny, taking a ship desigend to deliver impressive cruiser sized firepower and then strapping pea shooters on it ;) Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:12:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 31/08/2007 11:13:31
Quote: The dual rails you keep referring to are cruiser guns with cruiser tracking using cruiser ammo, and for the most part they suck. They are not the same thing as assault launchers which use frigate sized charges.
Indeed, but the "Dual" guns are the low-power equivalent for turret ships. The scenario in which you would choose these weapons is where you're fitting for lots of tank and little gank. I understand that the ammo types are different, but all missile launchers use a different ammo type: Rockets, Lights, Heavies, Assaults, Cruise and Torpedoes.
Quote: Assault launchers are a bit of an anomoly cos they dont really fit into either the small or medium class. And tbh, assaults on a BC would just be funny, taking a ship desigend to deliver impressive cruiser sized firepower and then strapping pea shooters on it ;)
Indeed it would be amusing, but sit and run the numbers on an active tanked Drake for example: if you want to fit the necessary mods (Large Shield Booster, Medium Capacitor Booster, 10MN Microwarpdrive), you'll need to fit a Reactor Control (or fill your lows with Power Diagnostics) even with Advanced Weapon Upgrades trained up to five to make it work with the launchers for which you get bonuses.
With turret ships, you'd just downgrade the guns to the "dual" type and the bonuses from the ship would still apply: Missile users have no such option. With Battleships you can choose to fit Cruise Missiles instead of Torpedoes, and you still get the bonuses. With Frigates, you can choose Rockets instead of Standard Missiles and still get the bonuses. With (Caldari) Cruisers you get the bonuses if you go for tank over gank, but the Battle Cruisers and Khanid ships do not - and for the life of me, I can't see the sense.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.08.31 12:12:00 -
[13]
My personal opinion is that a any ship that can fit the module and has a bonus to that type of weapon should get the bonus for all of that type from the smallest to the largest it can fit.
E.g. Frigate 5% rof to small projectile Cruiser & Battlecruiser 5% rof to small and medium projectile. Battleship 5% rof to small, medium and large projectile.
This to me is more realistic.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.09.01 00:07:00 -
[14]
Quote: My personal opinion is that a any ship that can fit the module and has a bonus to that type of weapon should get the bonus for all of that type from the smallest to the largest it can fit.
Thank you for your support.
Quote: E.g. Frigate 5% rof to small projectile Cruiser & Battlecruiser 5% rof to small and medium projectile. Battleship 5% rof to small, medium and large projectile.
Or in the case of missile users:
Frigates: Rockets / Light Missiles Cruisers: Light Missiles / Heavy Missiles / Heavy Assault Missiles Battle Cruisers: Light Missiles / Heavy Missiles / Heavy Assault Missiles Battleships: Cruise Missiles / Torpedoes
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Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2007.09.01 15:26:00 -
[15]
I agree that a bonus should apply to the entire class, not just that size.
Secondly, I really dislike the name of Heavy Assault Missiles, because of the confusion with Assault Missile Launchers.
Rename Assaults to Ripple-Fire Missile Launchers, or something like that. Then, introduce a BS sized version that fires Heavy missiles at an increased rate, much like the Cruiser version does for standards.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.09.01 15:42:00 -
[16]
Quote: I agree that a bonus should apply to the entire class, not just that size.
This is an interesting point, although whether that was intentional or not I'm really not sure. Why not give all hybrid ships simply a bonus to hybrid weapons? Why not all missile ships a bonus to all missiles, and so on for projectiles and lasers. If you can figure out how to squeeze a larger gun onto a ship with limited power grid, good on you - why should this ingenuity be discouraged?
Anyway, I digress...
Assault Missile Launchers can currently only be used on the Caracal and Cerberus to get bonuses. Every other racial battlecruiesr gets a "high tracking" version of the weapon for which it receives bonuses, except for the Drake. Every other Heavy Assault Ship and Command ship besides the Caldari and Khanid are in the same boat.
Please, let us choose the tank over gank if we see fit without overriding one of the basic rules of thumb in ship setups: play to your bonuses.
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Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2007.09.01 15:54:00 -
[17]
That makes a lot of sense. I like the naming scheme. Barrage launcher is a good name for what an assault launcher does.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.01 16:02:00 -
[18]
How about we just delete Assault Launchers from the game since they're just souped up Standard Launchers that can't fit on Frigates?
But then again I guess there is some setup out there that actually uses them in order to have a boosted tank or some other wacky thing on it =P ---
Put in space whales!
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Balcura
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Posted - 2007.09.01 18:51:00 -
[19]
The change to the drake actually effects one of my favorite gang setups... I run a passive tank in the mids, BCU's and SPR's in the lows and still can fit a neut with 7 assault II's with no problem.
The ships job is to agress the attackers on a gate camp so that the camp will agress a tank, take out ceptors (the ones that linger too long) or kill off other small ships. With the rest of the gang jumping in the idea is bait and not DPS but we are light on small ship killers so it fit's a duel role.
Makes me sad they forgot about a very common setup when changing the rules.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.09.01 21:34:00 -
[20]
Quote: How about we just delete Assault Launchers from the game since they're just souped up Standard Launchers that can't fit on Frigates?
Whilst it's not a frigate, you can fit one on a Cormorant alongside a full rack of 75mm Railguns. Go with a MAPC, and there's even enough powergrid left to fit an Afterburner, Scrambler, Webifier and Sensor Booster for a decent enough setup. Madness, but it's possible... and the same goes with the Hawk, Kestrel and Merlin if you're crazy enough to splash out on ancillary current routers for them just to get that 2 second reduction in refire rate.
Quote: But then again I guess there is some setup out there that actually uses them in order to have a boosted tank or some other wacky thing on it =P
If you want to fit a Microwarpdrive and an active shield tank to a Drake or a plate and rep setup on either the Khanid HAC or CS, there simply isn't enough power left to fit heavy or heavy assault launchers. Assault launchers are intended to be the low power equivalent, but none of the aforementioned missile ships will apply bonuses should you be forced to go down this route.
It's a problem unique to missile boats, and surely one that requires some attention?
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