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Shi Lang
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Posted - 2007.08.31 04:34:00 -
[31]
obviously whatever Rejaviks common law is and obviously if your insane you shouldnt be playing Eve.
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.08.31 04:47:00 -
[32]
I say they should just implement a "station barfight" to the station walking feature. Punch your local scammers today! Much more satisfying, and far less complicated.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.31 05:41:00 -
[33]
shi lang, how do you propose "enforcing" anything without in game "laws" and mechanics? because ccp would never implement something that lets you force anyone into something, and for a very good reason Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums:
Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
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Shi Lang
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Posted - 2007.08.31 06:06:00 -
[34]
you post doesn't make sense. there are already laws in Eve, and numbers of ways around them, scamming was a completely unintentional and unsanctions side effect which have gotten worse with free form contracts I am certain that with a little creativity enforcing it will not be hard.
And what do you mean CCP doesnt force you to do anyhting? It forces you to do alot of things.
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Vodun
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.31 06:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Now released from CCP/White Wolf:
Revelations III-EvE Lawyer Expansion Pack
-More accounting -Automated forum quote pyramid generator -Further tools for vivesection of opposing views -Walking in stations to include briefcase accessory pack -Legal Aid for outlaws -and much...much more.
---
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Bodhisattvas
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.08.31 06:57:00 -
[36]
Hell what next.....asking pirates to give stuff back....
Want some more fairy dust mister ?
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port22
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.08.31 08:38:00 -
[37]
Last time I checked this was "EVE Online" not "Judge Judy."
Originally by: Temp Boi Port FTMFW Period.
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Gladiator Jonny
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.31 13:26:00 -
[38]
I think its about time speed cameras were introduced, every time you get caught over the speed limit you get a huge fine.
just kidding but, eve is a game if you make law suits your gonna have lawyers. and who likes lawyers?
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Agent Li
Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2007.08.31 13:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shi Lang the best way to create accountability as to reduce the occurance of scams and to make players and theyre alts responsible for their actions would be to initialize an ingame system of "courts" completely supported by CCP, where if player A is scammed by player B player A can sopenna his character/alt ie the player himself to an ingame court where CCP looks at the evidence provided and makes a ruling where if player B is found accountable player B has the ISK worth of the scam deducted from his account as long as no EULA violations had occured, example Curzon Dax stealing the Navy Raven of a ISK buyer, pfft thats just dealing justice not scamming.
Just operate it completely on Common law or Napoleonic Code principles s that scam of scams or frivolous lawsuits are easily tossed aside and real work is done.
Neh?
Then you would need player judges and juries, who could be corrupted by bribes or threats.
You would also need player police at that point.
Doesn't sound workable. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Dionisius
Gallente The School of Fine Art
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Posted - 2007.08.31 13:52:00 -
[40]
Why not have a wardec style system?
Player A gets scammed by player B, you choose the method, the articles that have been scammed and pay a small fee that will allow you and/or associates to shoot that person as long as the fee is payed.
For that to happen you have to,
Loose ship to that player. Loose Isk to that player. Loose items for that player.
And something in the lines of the more time you keep the "war" against that person the mor the fee rises and its only valid against that one person.
Would be nice to have at least a dim chance of having revenge against the scammer. Afterall if scamming is allowed then give some more powers to the people that want to enforce law in the game. _______________________
Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire. |
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.31 14:02:00 -
[41]
I LOATHE scammers (no, I did not lose anything, I just find them to be so pathetic as to be offensive by their mere existance)
However
Lawyers are worse. The current whines that reverberate sp loudly in Eve are nothing compared to what professional whiners can do.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.31 14:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Shi Lang fine dont waste ccp's tiume, just make it a player driven mini profession, people will do it.
See, thats the beauty of EVE right there in your post and you don't even see it!
If you are so against scams and wan't to enforce some kind of law system against them, just open up your own corp, call it Law Firm or something, gather around a group of like minded individuals and start accepting cases from clients.
A wholle new business model in EVE is created, you have fun doing something you apparently like and get some ISK from it in the form of % of ISK scammed returned to your client, hourly fees devoted to returning the clients ISK, or any other number of methods you can implement and CCP doesn't have to move a finger or waste resources like in your OP.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.08.31 14:43:00 -
[43]
Lawsuits? Your kidding right?
I don't think many people have sat down to think about what is missing from Eve and came up with the answer "Lawyers".
It's a widely unreported fact that lawyers and their kin create more human misery than terrorists and peadophiles combined*. Beaten only by their close cousins, the politicians, and their predecessors, the religious leaders.
The less of all of this type of filth in Eve, the merrier.
*You might not want to go down this road.
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Agent Li
Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2007.08.31 16:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dionisius Why not have a wardec style system?
Player A gets scammed by player B, you choose the method, the articles that have been scammed and pay a small fee that will allow you and/or associates to shoot that person as long as the fee is payed.
For that to happen you have to,
Loose ship to that player. Loose Isk to that player. Loose items for that player.
And something in the lines of the more time you keep the "war" against that person the mor the fee rises and its only valid against that one person.
Would be nice to have at least a dim chance of having revenge against the scammer. Afterall if scamming is allowed then give some more powers to the people that want to enforce law in the game.
How would the system know that it was a scam, other than "you said so"?
That would mean that you could shoot anyone you ever had a contract with. All someone would have to say is, "it was a scam!" and then go shooting.
------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Major Stallion
Four Rings D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.31 16:12:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Shi Lang the best way to create accountability as to reduce the occurance of scams and to make players and theyre alts responsible for their actions would be to initialize an ingame system of "courts" completely supported by CCP, where if player A is scammed by player B player A can sopenna his character/alt ie the player himself to an ingame court where CCP looks at the evidence provided and makes a ruling where if player B is found accountable player B has the ISK worth of the scam deducted from his account as long as no EULA violations had occured, example Curzon Dax stealing the Navy Raven of a ISK buyer, pfft thats just dealing justice not scamming.
Just operate it completely on Common law or Napoleonic Code principles s that scam of scams or frivolous lawsuits are easily tossed aside and real work is done.
Neh?
if you want to exact revenge in Eve, grab yer guns, and a gang (if you want) and find the bastard who got you for all your ISK.
Bottom line is, if you are DUMB enough to fall for all the scams here, you deserve to get scammed out of your ships/isk/assets. ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Originally by: "Wylker" CCP has finally mastered stupidity
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.08.31 16:30:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 31/08/2007 16:30:14
Originally by: port22 Last time I checked this was "EVE Online" not "Judge Judy."
I didn't steal it, it was a gift!
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking ~Liz Kali
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.31 16:58:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Shi Lang you post doesn't make sense. there are already laws in Eve,
with the exception of high sec agression, what other ingame laws are there?
Quote: and numbers of ways around them,
actually no, it will get you banned avoiding concord
Quote: scamming was a completely unintentional and unsanctions side effect which have gotten worse with free form contracts
the devs say differently, frankly i think their opinion counts for alot more than yours.
Quote: I am certain that with a little creativity enforcing it will not be hard.
then you either have no idea how hard it is to code subjective "enforcement" or you are a complete moron
Quote: And what do you mean CCP doesnt force you to do anyhting? It forces you to do alot of things.
example? there isnt a single module or mechanic that you are forced into using, and no way to force others into using/doing anything either, you always have a choice, and control, of your character/ship Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums:
Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
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Dionisius
Gallente The School of Fine Art
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Posted - 2007.08.31 18:21:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Dionisius Why not have a wardec style system?
Player A gets scammed by player B, you choose the method, the articles that have been scammed and pay a small fee that will allow you and/or associates to shoot that person as long as the fee is payed.
For that to happen you have to,
Loose ship to that player. Loose Isk to that player. Loose items for that player.
And something in the lines of the more time you keep the "war" against that person the mor the fee rises and its only valid against that one person.
Would be nice to have at least a dim chance of having revenge against the scammer. Afterall if scamming is allowed then give some more powers to the people that want to enforce law in the game.
How would the system know that it was a scam, other than "you said so"?
That would mean that you could shoot anyone you ever had a contract with. All someone would have to say is, "it was a scam!" and then go shooting.
Hmm good question, what about a scam type database and only allowing the fee and the wardec IF the two players have actually interacted?
For instance, killmail or trade. _______________________
Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire. |
Warrio
Mining Bytes Inc. Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.08.31 18:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Fortuk Monmouth lofty your in a noob corp! did ccp nerf your awesome moneymaker? (srry i have been away for a while, no idead whats going on....)
Loftys new corp makes this statement even more excelent.
Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain |
Shi Lang
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Posted - 2007.08.31 19:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Originally by: Shi Lang you post doesn't make sense. there are already laws in Eve,
with the exception of high sec agression, what other ingame laws are there?
Quote: and numbers of ways around them,
actually no, it will get you banned avoiding concord
Quote: scamming was a completely unintentional and unsanctions side effect which have gotten worse with free form contracts
the devs say differently, frankly i think their opinion counts for alot more than yours.
Quote: I am certain that with a little creativity enforcing it will not be hard.
then you either have no idea how hard it is to code subjective "enforcement" or you are a complete moron
Quote: And what do you mean CCP doesnt force you to do anyhting? It forces you to do alot of things.
example? there isnt a single module or mechanic that you are forced into using, and no way to force others into using/doing anything either, you always have a choice, and control, of your character/ship
It was the devs themselves who have informed me that scamming is a completely unsupported and unintentional part of the game. And you have answered your own question on which mechanics of the game you are forced to go through.
And next whoeevr said the ******** statement that if you get scammed you deserve to get scammed, then I geuss if you get raped out in a parking lot you deserved it right for getting caught in that position right?
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Sharil
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Posted - 2007.08.31 21:04:00 -
[51]
I think you all missed the point. Having a legal system where crimes other than violent crimes are punishable in highsec space would add an interesting new depth to pvp, where those individuals guilty, or accused of being guilty of said crimes (i.e. blue-collar stuff) would have to be brought to justice.
The Bounty system obviously doesn't work because a player can simply kill himself and collect if the total is high enough. However, a system where Arrest Warrants were in place, someone would need to enforce the warrant. Someone OTHER than Concord. See where this is going?
Knee-jerk reactions are silly. Just think about it. For just a moment.
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Dionisius
Gallente The School of Fine Art
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Posted - 2007.08.31 21:06:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sharil I think you all missed the point. Having a legal system where crimes other than violent crimes are punishable in highsec space would add an interesting new depth to pvp, where those individuals guilty, or accused of being guilty of said crimes (i.e. blue-collar stuff) would have to be brought to justice.
The Bounty system obviously doesn't work because a player can simply kill himself and collect if the total is high enough. However, a system where Arrest Warrants were in place, someone would need to enforce the warrant. Someone OTHER than Concord. See where this is going?
Knee-jerk reactions are silly. Just think about it. For just a moment.
Nice one, like having those Concord affiliated corps to manage and carry on the warrants. _______________________
Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire. |
GPerson
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.08.31 21:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shi Lang It was the devs themselves who have informed me that scamming is a completely unsupported and unintentional part of the game.
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~~~Sig Stuffs Here~~~ I highly recommend drunken posting. This sig has been unhighjacked since 2005. |
Shi Lang
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Posted - 2007.08.31 21:54:00 -
[54]
Quote:
...
pwned.
But yes, some of the more creative inputs are interesting, a warrant/arrest system where you would b allowed to attack someone whose "wanted" even in High sec without CC interfearing is an interesting addition.
Now the problem with an earler suggestion of having a player driven lawyer corp is how do you enforce the victom aside from ransoming him to give back the money? I think a certain point in these steps some dev action will be needed to force the perp to "oay up" and then let off on his merry way.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.31 21:58:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 31/08/2007 22:01:20
Originally by: Shi Lang
It was the devs themselves who have informed me that scamming is a completely unsupported and unintentional part of the game. And you have answered your own question on which mechanics of the game you are forced to go through.
And next whoeevr said the ******** statement that if you get scammed you deserve to get scammed, *snip* Totally inappropriate -TheDagda ([email protected])
Devs have "informed you" ? What? ...I'm sorry, but the closest thing they informed you of, is to go read the warnings about scamming.
While scamming is indeed unsupported, it has no prevenational systems either - Thus your argument for this is flawed. If scamming was an undesired side of EVE, steps would have been taken years ago to prevent it entirely, game mechanic-wise. Granted perhaps, the method of preventing it, isn't exactly forthcoming - However no actual system has ever been in place to flat out stop a scammer.
Having said that, there are in actuality, several systems in place to prevent scamming - You seem them all the time when buying and selling on contracts: Warning messages telling you to make sure you check what you're buying, to check at what price you're selling something, to check the price of what you're buying and so on.
If you FAIL to heed those warnings, despite what you said earlier, then getting scammed is your own fault, pure and simple. It's called Darwinism, look it up.
CCP warn you that people might scam you, however they never said they don't want it in their game, nor did they ever say that they'd take steps to remove it completely from the game, or for that matter, protect you if you get scammed...not at all. Darwinism doesn't shield the weak.
Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.31 22:11:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dionisius Why not have a wardec style system?
Player A gets scammed by player B, you choose the method, the articles that have been scammed and pay a small fee that will allow you and/or associates to shoot that person as long as the fee is payed.
For that to happen you have to,
Loose ship to that player. Loose Isk to that player. Loose items for that player.
And something in the lines of the more time you keep the "war" against that person the mor the fee rises and its only valid against that one person.
Would be nice to have at least a dim chance of having revenge against the scammer. Afterall if scamming is allowed then give some more powers to the people that want to enforce law in the game.
Please do explain to me how the game is to tell the difference on whether your ship/isk/item was stolen, or you just gave it to him? You have that option everytime someone has something of yours? You get to mark something as stolen after it's been lost?
Imagine the scenario, noob gets a free frigate from some random guy, noob thinks "Hey awesome!", random guy marks the ship as stolen, wardecs, proceeds to kill noob over and over freely and legally in hi-sec, resulting in a very confused and unhappy noob.
You buy a ship on contracts and before you know it, theres a wardec on your rear end..Market PvP'ing gets a whole new meaning!
You do a direct trade with someone and pay them....wardec..same story
Corp builds you a ship out of your minerals, you get the ships, leave the corp..wardec...same story again.
It would be abused so morbidly that you'd make the ENTIRE market in all of EVE, crash permanently. I'd say thats a bad thing.
Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
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GPerson
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.08.31 22:24:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Shi Lang
Originally by: GPerson
...
pwned.
I fail to see how me making a comment (of sorts) about you stating the obvious "pwned" anything. Of course scammiing is unsupported, last time I checked, I couldn't train Scamming to level V.
~~~Sig Stuffs Here~~~ I highly recommend drunken posting. This sig has been unhighjacked since 2005. |
Shi Lang
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Posted - 2007.08.31 23:04:00 -
[58]
I had recieved a message from a dev stating that scamming is in no way condoned or supported by CCP.
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Shi Lang
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Posted - 2007.08.31 23:34:00 -
[59]
Umm it IS relevent to the thread as some people here have said otherwise, as being the originator of the thread I think I have the right to determine what is or is not relevent.
One person here has claimed that CCP allows it or that it is supported by them, I am merely answering that based on the notice I have recieved that that is not the case. scamming (being the topic of this thread) is not in any way condoned or supported by CCP.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.31 23:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Shi Lang Umm it IS relevent to the thread as some people here have said otherwise, as being the originator of the thread I think I have the right to determine what is or is not relevent.
One person here has claimed that CCP allows it or that it is supported by them, I am merely answering that based on the notice I have recieved that that is not the case. scamming (being the topic of this thread) is not in any way condoned or supported by CCP.
CCP does allow it, otherwise it would be classified as an exploit until a system to remove it entirely could be put in place. Simple as that buddy.
That they don't condone or support it, is an entirely different matter. That's something they do to protect themselves, like so many corps and alliances do for the sake of their image.
Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
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