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Pettions - for the nerf of nano ships (AGAIN)

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Tenebrious Quantum Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.01 16:29:00 - [31] Originally by: EgoMan Originally by: sov68n adapt or die. those who fail to adapt to other's methods of playing EVE will die. Just because someone is able to kill you doesn't mean a nerf is in order. LMAO this is classic.....Like everyone did to the NOS setups so well that it ended up getting nerfed? Or should it be "adapt or cry" like everyone did with the NOS? I love peoples reasoning. Wait ... I use nano ships! ADAPT OR DIE egoMan! If I didn't use them I might have agreed with you...
Bonessa Industrial Light and Magic	Posted - 2007.09.01 16:31:00 - [32] good sir i believe u have forgotten about the sad fate of the nanomacheral pilot who lost to a Myrmidon felding double webers.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.01 16:57:00 - [33] \|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\|,, \| WHINE TRUCK \|'\|"";.\| \|.___. \|_..._...______====_\|__\|...,]\| "(@)'(@)""""\|(@)(@)****(@) It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:17:00 - [34] This is nothing like NOS. Nos rendered whole ship classes useless (frigs vs cruisers and bigger, cruisers vs BS) just due to size. Now that sucked. And it was a no-brainer to fit it on every ship. Now, on the other hand, do you nano-up every ship? Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
lyrenna Caldari The Renaissance The Makhai	Posted - 2007.09.01 18:08:00 - [35] nano ships are realy annoyer but you can deal with them(ofc you going to need some rapier/huginn or some real snipers like muninn/eagle but its doable and damps hurt them alot to..) and thrust me when you manage to pod them its realy hurts i mean realy(a proper nano addict pod roughtly cost 3b~), they are annoying but main dmg source is drones on most nanoship and they cant scoop/redeploy(if they try they die), its can be countered not like old prenerf nos ships and they are fragile to.. another fact is flying a nano ship totaly different from flying an old dumpnoslol ship, you need piloting skills and experience, its hard then you tought
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.09.01 18:13:00 - [36] Should rephrase the terminology used for these fast ships, as most don't use nano's at all any more. They should be aptly named 'polycarb ships', or say 'poly ships' :)
Radek Boktor	Posted - 2007.09.01 19:18:00 - [37] It becomes unbalanced when there is no counter to one.... Serriosuly unless somebody wants to show me a defintive counter im gona keep saying this. I always adapt my setups i had, to i spent alot of time as a merc. But lets look at killing a nano ship. Web - this requires a frikin load of luck and the pilot to screw up Drones - cn;t keep up Nos - don;t work Sensordamps - well great in theory, but requires 1 i have enuogh meds, 2 im not tryign to jump and 3 i can still hit him/his drones Missiles - won't do jack to a snake set pilot Hugin - cause everybody has a minny pilot with 9m sp!!!! also rapier decloaks and the nanao pilot runs the feck away Traps - possible but your to likley to take heavy losses. Blob - well 1 thats lame and 2 it dn;t help Nanoblob, well i guess im fecked
Solid Trust Minmatar Haven Front	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:53:00 - [38] Originally by: Radek Boktor Nano ishtar (needs nerfin), drone damge, much higher than a vagas, can still do damge at 45km, can orbit well outide 25km. sensor damps, or other ewar have no effect on its dps. The Nano Ishtar is badass right now. It makes me 'almost' want to switch to Gallente. I think Nano Gangs are cool, so any nerf should not be so bad where it removed/destroyed the Nano Gangs.
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:25:00 - [39] Why not change MWD and AB affects depending on ship class? Frig Mods (t1) AB= 150% MWD= 500% Crusier Mods (t1) AB= 125% MWD= 400% BS Mods (t1) AB=100% MWD=300% Faction and T2 would be redone to match these new t1 effects. It helps spread apart the speeds of different ship classes. HACS are a bit slower, but still can be speed-tanked. BS have a harder time of it. Frigs might actually use an AB occasionally.
manorthitszak Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Radek Boktor It becomes unbalanced when there is no counter to one.... Serriosuly unless somebody wants to show me a defintive counter im gona keep saying this. I always adapt my setups i had, to i spent alot of time as a merc. But lets look at killing a nano ship. Web - this requires a frikin load of luck and the pilot to screw up Drones - cn;t keep up Nos - don;t work Sensordamps - well great in theory, but requires 1 i have enuogh meds, 2 im not tryign to jump and 3 i can still hit him/his drones Missiles - won't do jack to a snake set pilot Hugin - cause everybody has a minny pilot with 9m sp!!!! also rapier decloaks and the nanao pilot runs the feck away Traps - possible but your to likley to take heavy losses. Blob - well 1 thats lame and 2 it dn;t help Nanoblob, well i guess im fecked Guess how many people have Snake Sets? --- I'm mematar, my forum access was revoked so I'm posting under this name.

EgoMan	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:52:00 - [41] Edited by: EgoMan on 01/09/2007 21:52:54 Originally by: lyrenna another fact is flying a nano ship totaly different from flying an old dumpnoslol ship, you need piloting skills and experience, its hard then you tought This is also classic. Piloting skills? Are you kidding me? As if there are joysticks and reflexes taken into account...LMFAO every combat situation in this game is point click hit some F-keys and done. There is no skill to any of it its all about knowing what modules are effective for what situations. Its not skill, its just intelligence...here's a thought try staying AWAY from the nos...since EVERYBODY fits one on EVERY ship then it should be cake to not fall into its trap. Sounds like only a moron could get killed by a dumpnoslol ship...get real. ADAPT or DIE, unless its my ship were talking about then its NERF IT SO I CAN STOP CRYING BECAUSE I WAS TO LAZY TO TRY AND REFIT MY SHIP PROPERLY AND FIGURE OUT A DIFFERENT STRATEGY.
Azumi Kurosawa	Posted - 2007.09.01 22:33:00 - [42] Seriously wait until caldari pilots uleash there deadly version of a nano ship then it will get nerfed since caldari are not allowed anything good Of course for the unenlightened I am refering to the Nanohawk yep a Commandship that can orbit at 23km going 4358m/s and never misses does not have to worry about ecm(Faction FoF's) can fit dual t2 webbers(let's see a frig tackle this due to the precison bonus) and only really needs to run from min recons. Now I'm guessing ppl are thinking i'm being sarcastic but nope this is a viable setup BUT is even more exspensive than normal as you need t2 polycarbons if you can find them and a full grade snake set as low grade don't cut it. So am I being sarcastic or is this a real fit you decide Nanohawk Fact or Fiction
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.02 00:17:00 - [43] Edited by: Rastigan on 02/09/2007 00:21:10 T2 Nano Ishtars really cant go faster than 4000-4500km/s without Implants. And that involves 200 million ISK for just the Ishtar hull and 2 polycarbon rigs, which of course you will get very little back if you do lose the ship... This super Ishtar will have a sorry 1000 cap. 0 tank, and thanks to MWD a sig radius of almost 1000, will be hit by medium guns.(TRY IT..) Warrior II's can hit like 9500km/s with 2 drone speed mods. Valkryie II's almost 5km/s with 2 drone speed mods. This isnt a 15km/s Crow folks, its not that hard make this ship disengage. If you lost, its most likely, your opponent has more SP and more ISK invested, why shouldnt he have the advantage ?
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.09.02 00:27:00 - [44] Someone lost to a nano ishtar Just kill its drones, their right there, orbiting you, you can web them and everything. Nano ships have counters and they typically have dps that is removable (drones) or low dps for the ship class they are in (vaga in falloff). Overloaded webs, nav boosted drones, sensor damps, ecm, matari recons, velocity bonused missles, long range snipers, a gang that forms a web of web ranges to break orbits and tacklers with balls of steel will all help bring one down. A gang should have no problem unless the tacklers suck and/or are scared of losing there inty's. Solo it is a matter of forcing pilot error to get a kill as is the case in many fights, chasing one off is easy enough though.
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.09.02 01:58:00 - [45] Cpt Branko said it mostly. if you are flying with 2 people and a vaga stays just out of web range, please then tell me you can think of a way to get it webbed. and if the nanoishtar is a problem outside of 25k cant you always just warp off? oh yes and if the minmatar recons make them run again whats the problem, your not taking any losses. that and it is expensive to go fast, snakes + rigs + faction gear. now what kind of speeds can nano ships get, at what cost, and what is the cap like on them? and are they in gangs with speed bonuses? oh yes and if the nano gangs are what you are really scared of yet it is too hard to get a web on one of them then you most likely aren't flying in a gang yourself. or the nano gang is bigger and you got beaten by a large force. if anything needs a nerf, nerf the caracel look at how its doing in the alliance tourny!!!!!!!!
wictro	Posted - 2007.09.02 02:01:00 - [46] haha :) the topic has it all: bad grammar, typoes, nerf, petition and last but not least, CAPS fuken LOCK :D
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.09.02 02:12:00 - [47] Am sry but radek is right those that say the nano ishtar can be lost are clueless. The only reason I would lose mine are due to lagg & dysec. With 26k or better scam the longer orbit makes you immune to nos/neuts as well as increasing your speed. Those that say kill the drones trying killing 5 ogre2s with durability 5 when am doing 450 dps to you. Also I know a number of nano ishtar pilots who run damps on there thus meaning it will take you 2 mins to lock there drones which in most cases you are already dead. The "OMG USE A HUGInN" people k I will see a hugimn on scanners or even by the time hes locked me I will have burned out of web range this is even worse for rapier due to decloak delay. Also the web bubble wont work & would make gate camps overpowered as well as not applying in low sec. I FLY THEM FFS EVEN AM SAYING NERF! & The BUT IT COSTS MONEY SO U SHOULD BE INVINABLE STFU ! Now there was an interesting module in the test database called a graviton beam which would increase the mass of the target this would be a perfect counter slowing them down to killable speeds. The vaga is fine however the ishtar/cerb/mach/curse(less so with nos nerf) etc are not due to no need for tracking. snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.09.02 02:13:00 - [48] Originally by: wictro haha :) the topic has it all: bad grammar, typoes, nerf, petition and last but not least, CAPS fuken LOCK :D if you cant contribute stfu snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2007.09.02 02:18:00 - [49] Quote: If you lost, its most likely, your opponent has more SP and more ISK invested, why shouldnt he have the advantage ? Ah an interesting question, how about I respond with one of my own: Do you prefer games based on time spent or player skill? You're question gives me the assumption you prefer the former, personally I'm the opposite. I much prefer a system where the ability of the player outweigh the time you've spent accumulating ISK and SP. Whether nanos should be nerfed or not I won't speak on since I don't have much experience with them... -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
NCP S2	Posted - 2007.09.02 02:35:00 - [50] When I left the game for a break over a year ago, the Manticore was king of the SB's, having 1 more missile slot than all of the rest. I get back, and bam, it still costs more, but all of the other SB's have the same amount of missile slots, so it's no longer king. At least in the area I hung out in, super sensor boosted sniper ships were feared. And instalock and boom, large guns flying at your face outside of gate gun range. Now I haven't met one since coming back to the game, or really heard of anyone talking about one other than me. Sure, it sucks when a ship can stay outside of your range annoying you. But there is still a counter to every ship. There is a counter to every situation. I have low SP, and thus, I can't fly all the shiny goodies. I don't have billions of ISK to throw around at a full snake set (or even +3's right now) I do know, that if I work hard enough at it (raise isk and invest time in SP training) that I can specialize in an area and become very effective in my field. I don't like fighting gallente while in my frigate due to drones kicking my butt. That doesn't mean I should rationally go out and scream at the top of my lungs, "drones beat me! they are too strong! they must be nerfed!" because quite frankly, they are the counter to my ship in this situation. If you spend a few years skilling up, and raising isk to be able to stay at the top of your field, wouldn't it suck if all of a sudden, just because you put effort into being great, someone cries until they get their way and you are now nerfed? forced to spend a lot more time specializing in something else? Rigs add a lot to a ship. My Drake, when I finally put some rigs on it, will have a tank that will last for days. So now I become closer to the ranks of PVE "elitist" (using as a comparison I know I'm far from it) so should shield rigs be nerfed because they make my ship too powerful against rats? They rig for speed, why not rig for tracking, or tank. Seems the logical thing to do. Pilot error happens. Heck on an alt I baited a vaga in a rifter. He got too close, I webbed him for about 3 seconds before he tore my ship open and pulled out my pod. In that time, the other gang members were able to close in and lock him down. So should bait ships be nerfed? NOS had reasons to be nerfed, I can kind of see it. I don't agree with how they did it, but I can see their reasoning behind it. Nano's aren't the FOTM as they've been around for a bit, but they are popular. Please, not just the OP but countless others out there, take a broader look on the game. If you find a counter to your methods and don't like it, you are faced with a few options: Change your tactics Stay out of that situation Quit None of those three options are throw a temper tantrum. Besides, how can you be taken seriously by everyone when all you do is prove your own immaturity? If you need some more help, here: They are orbitting past 25km. Need a hint? Warp out. They no longer have any more DPS on you. Try warping back in, maybe you'll get lucky and warp on top of them, then you can double web them and turn the tides. Ceptors can use the same rigs, right? If a Ceptor has good speed skills, and all the implants and rigs, they reach insane speeds, and have better agility than larger ships. Quite frankly, if you are a ceptor pilot these days and not going over 5km/s... you're doing something wrong. And if you want to look at a totally overpowered ship... a CNR is totally overpowered versus missions. I mean come on, what were they thinking? Giving that kind of a reward to a lot of work and effort and skill training? If this doesn't help you, my apologies, but you already read it. -S2 p.s. I'm a big fan of the module idea that someone had proposed to boost missile speed, low slot item I believe it was. Great counter for something like this imo. and for the record, i enjoy eating pie.

Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.02 02:43:00 - [51] Originally by: Kadoes Khan Quote: If you lost, its most likely, your opponent has more SP and more ISK invested, why shouldnt he have the advantage ? Ah an interesting question, how about I respond with one of my own: Do you prefer games based on time spent or player skill? You're question gives me the assumption you prefer the former, personally I'm the opposite. I much prefer a system where the ability of the player outweigh the time you've spent accumulating ISK and SP. Play Quake if you want it just on ability, the premise of every RPG style game involves gear and levels. Yes experience matters alot in this game, those that complain the most usually dont have it though. To everyone else, have you actually tried to fit an Ishar ? With 700 grid and 285 cpu, you pretty much are limited to modules that dont use much of either.
wictro	Posted - 2007.09.02 02:51:00 - [52] Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: wictro haha :) the topic has it all: bad grammar, typoes, nerf, petition and last but not least, CAPS fuken LOCK :D if you cant contribute stfu but.. but.. just look at the topic ffs :D but you are right, that was not very creative from me. so i'm sorry, but i just had to post that :)
Temp Boi Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.09.02 06:35:00 - [53] Originally by: Radek Boktor Edited by: Radek Boktor on 01/09/2007 00:10:25 The vagas damge is gun based, so sensor damps or tracking dissruptors will remove its dmg. Also its average orbit radius is 1 or 2 km outside web range. Maybe with tech 1 guns and HAC 1. If you weren't so intent on screwing up nano ships, you might have actually done your research. Vagas fight from 15-20km generally, FAR outside web range. Any vaga pilot who fights at 11 or 12km deserves to die.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.02 06:54:00 - [54] Well, i guess most wont believe me, but one of the answers to Nanoships is actually: the Bellicose... A vaga has a signature off 700m with mwd, with 3 target painter it will go up to 2000m+. This will make them trackable to most guns. You can play with the numbers in tracking guide... was surprised myself.
Bendit	Posted - 2007.09.02 07:05:00 - [55] Quote: Split it so ECM reduces lock range and Damps reduce scan res. Congratulation, you just made a useless module. Quote: The combination of both on damps is over the top in that even if you manage to get in lock range it takes ages just to lock the ship thats dampening you. It`s the whole point my friend. Gallente have blasterships that a designed to fight closerange. So, damp target, and move within range. Then the damps will delay the time it will take for the hostile to lock him. Quote: This already gives a lot of long range setups big big problems. You can run this down to 3 SB against 3 RSD and it will become worse to less then 40% of the base ship targeting range, for most ships this will be quite close to warp disrupter range. Erhm, isnt that the point, to give long range BS problems? If sensorboosters countered damps 100% you could just load up with damps and not worry. Cause the damps would never affect you. And for the warp disrupt range. If you fly a T1 cruiser and up most of the ships will have no problem locking the tackler, as long as it`s not an arazu/lachesis or fitted with uber scram. It will take time yes, and if you are outnumbered you will most likely die.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:42:00 - [56] The nerf of the Curse pretty much handled the nanoship problem. The Curse was an issue because 1v1 you simply could not beat it, period. The best you could hope for was to prevent it from killing you and hope your friends arrive before his did. Aside from fitting WCS, it was completely impossible to escape a Curse, and to prevent dying you MUST have either had a passive shield tank or cap injector + multiple large smartbombs fitted. Otherwise, you would simply die. Vagabond can go really really fast, but it has to slow down if it wants to hit anything. Also, even when it is hitting things, in a nanoship configuration its DPS is terrible and there's a lot of ships it simply can't kill. The new Sacrilege can be nanoed out with high DPS, but using regular/rage/faction missiles puts it in web range, and using javelins nerfs its speed and kind of screws over its nano fit. IMHO, the only nanoship that is still overpowered is the Machariel, and the Machariel is a faction boat that costs a LOT.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.02 09:04:00 - [57] Originally by: Xequecal ...Aside from fitting WCS, it was completely impossible to escape a Curse,... If you get locked down in a SS or belt. On a gate/station you can slowboat back and jump/dock.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.09.02 10:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Jin Entres Originally by: LordKain WEB BUBBLE LAUNCHER SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED - NANOLAMERS WILL BE DEAD Rock beat your scissors? Here, have a tissue. smooth :D ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.09.02 10:26:00 - [59] Slightly off topic, but has anyone ever noticed that pretty much every ship ever considered overpowered was built in such away that it wastes one or more ship bonuses? The Machariel is overpowered when you nano it and fit launchers, ignoring the gun bonus. The Myrmidon is overpowered when you passive shield tank it and fit projectiles or NOS, eschewing both Gallente weapons and the armor rep bonus. The Curse was overpowered, even though nobody ever put tracking disruptors on it. The Dominix fit a full rack of NOS and eschewed hybrid bonus. Of all the logistics, the Scimitar is the strongest, even though you would never in a million years put tracking links on it. The Eos is most overpowered when it doesn't fit any gang mods at all.
Franconis Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.02 10:34:00 - [60] Quote: blah blah blah nerf nano ships blah blah blah Train some navigation skills and join the fun. That or continue to limit yourself to f1 - f8 and tell me where you hang out _________ Gallente FTW



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