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Explain Hedonistic Imperative's forfeit?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.03 06:12:00 - [151] Originally by: Farscape Hw wow that is confusing... that sucks they were disqualified for something so unclear. some kind of clarification between these two lines would have prevented it. [ 2007.09.02 18:59:36 ] Myndpyre Ryche > is that until match start for us or match end for them? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:52 ] GM Xamother > 10 seconds Completely agree with you here. The question was asked, no answer was given. A countdown then started, in time with when their match was due to start. Honestly, I would have fired too. And for those saying "Stop means stop" Due to queued up weapons, and looking at your overview instead of local, you should know its far easier to start firing than it is to stop. You switch into pvp mode, you focus on your task ahead, and switch off from reading local. Harsh call by the by the tourny organisers, when clearly the question was asked, and the GM failed to answer. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.09.03 06:35:00 - [152] votes to have the next Alliance Tournament on the forums Each alliance picks their ten best legal professionals, then last one standing after the disqualifications wins. Simple.
pator gurl	Posted - 2007.09.03 07:00:00 - [153] Originally by: w0rmy Completely agree with you here. The question was asked, no answer was given. A countdown then started, in time with when their match was due to start. Honestly, I would have fired too. And for those saying "Stop means stop" Due to queued up weapons, and looking at your overview instead of local, you should know its far easier to start firing than it is to stop. You switch into pvp mode, you focus on your task ahead, and switch off from reading local. Harsh call by the by the tourny organisers, when clearly the question was asked, and the GM failed to answer. You need just a reason to disagree with CCP. Its the players fault for not watching local. This isn't PVP mode its "Alliance tournament" mode, where you have to watch local too. It isn't a harsh call, people screwed up, they paid the price. GM Xamother can't interrupt an existing countdown to write an answer, otherwise the countdown would break.
pator gurl	Posted - 2007.09.03 07:03:00 - [154] Originally by: Farscape Hw i wasnt there and didnt see what happened, but i would like an explination from sharkbait as to why he said this: "there was no countdown to start the match and shouldn't have been any fighting." but from that chatlog of local, he was clearly either mistaken or lying. i sure hope he was mistaken or its just me missing something alltogather. That was the countdown to end the previous match. Rather than the countdown to the start the hedonistic/MC match.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.09.03 07:32:00 - [155] I agree with the mis-communication guys here. A countdown from 10, when queried, was not clarified by GMs. By the time the counter got to 0, I suspect everyone was in MDK mode and just started spamming the primaries. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.03 07:37:00 - [156] Originally by: pator gurl That was the countdown to end the previous match. Rather than the countdown to the start the hedonistic/MC match. Which you didnt know and they didnt know untill AFTER all this had happened. You can sit here with 20/20 hindsight, but at the time, according to that chat log, the communication from the GM was NOT clear. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Glengrant Minmatar TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.09.03 07:54:00 - [157] 1) Sying this was a trap is plain silly - take off the tinfoil hats 2) I can see how that countdown was confusing 3) Of course right after fight starts people are busy with their controls and don't watch local that much 4) Yet - the rules clearly state that the fight starts with a ECM pulse and host leaving the arena. So that's what should have been looked at - not local Certainly a sad situation I can understand that the hedonists are disapointed.
Owi Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.09.03 08:18:00 - [158] Edited by: Owi on 03/09/2007 08:27:02 Edited by: Owi on 03/09/2007 08:22:09 Originally by: pator gurl Edited by: pator gurl on 03/09/2007 07:22:09 Originally by: w0rmy Completely agree with you here. The question was asked, no answer was given. A countdown then started, in time with when their match was due to start. Honestly, I would have fired too. And for those saying "Stop means stop" Due to queued up weapons, and looking at your overview instead of local, you should know its far easier to start firing than it is to stop. You switch into pvp mode, you focus on your task ahead, and switch off from reading local. Harsh call by the by the tourny organisers, when clearly the question was asked, and the GM failed to answer. Its the players fault for not watching local. This isn't PVP mode its "Alliance tournament" mode, where you have to watch local too. It isn't a harsh call, people screwed up, they paid the price. GM Xamother can't interrupt an existing countdown to write an answer, otherwise the countdown would break. read everythink befor you try to talk about something you know a f* of .. [ 2007.09.02 18:59:31 ] GM Xamother > 30 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:36 ] Myndpyre Ryche > is that until match start for us or match end for them? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:52 ] GM Xamother > 10 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:54 ] GM Xamother > 9 simpley 16 sec to answer .. 12 to write .. 1 to press enter.. 3 to prepare for the countdown.. i dont want to pull this out again..only want to giv pator a answer.. to Glengrant . i wouldt like there was or is a thing like a ecm burst but never saw one in the 2 matches we made..this question was answered also in this thread allready sooo GM Zhainius > and you do not move at all once you've warped in untill xamother starts the fight in local GM Zhainius > Alright remember not to move and keep an eye on local :) to all, READ f** full thread befor make a comment ! * yawns My EvE-Files.com folder !
Unaralas Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.09.03 09:51:00 - [159] Originally by: Papa Boats I wonder how hard it is for people to understand that it was a Hound AKA Stealth Bomber. Which has really fast locking time to begin with with sensor booster 2s on and tracking enhancers to make it lock even faster. Wait, hold on...tracking enhancers? On a Bomber? Hahahaha.... well done HI. We are [505]
IttoRyu	Posted - 2007.09.03 09:55:00 - [160] Originally by: Faith Rose communicate clearly or emo things will start happening. Gm's devs and everyone else take said quote to heart.
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.09.03 11:07:00 - [161] Originally by: Unaralas Originally by: Papa Boats I wonder how hard it is for people to understand that it was a Hound AKA Stealth Bomber. Which has really fast locking time to begin with with sensor booster 2s on and tracking enhancers to make it lock even faster. Wait, hold on...tracking enhancers? On a Bomber? Hahahaha.... well done HI. yeh i saw that too, well i hope he didn't fit those, i think he meant the signal amplifiers, he was probably a little stressed when he wrote that post. Es and Whizz is recruiting
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.03 11:52:00 - [162] If someone should be disqualified form championship, those should be the GMs, 100% their fault If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.03 12:04:00 - [163] Very poorly handled by the GMs and Sharkbait. I'm disappointed. If MC moved they should be penalized for it, but apparently they weren't. Forfeiting -another- match because of some lame confusion is just that, lame. Shooting a camera man is irrelevant and mildly amusing. If they are so eager to enforce their rules with the harshest penalties they can, perhaps they should be more organized with everything. I have to say that if I was in that tourney, and the dude started counting down like that, I would have let loose a volley of missiles as soon as I thought he'd say go. I wouldn't read STOP and not shoot. I'd see something and shoot. That's like playing a trick on them. And then to fall back on this cameraman thing? "yeah well, you shot a camera man!" That's weak. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.09.03 12:05:00 - [164] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: NeOnicuS Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Which part of "STOP" was unclear? Can't stop missiles can you? No but how does STOP mean START shooting your missiles to begin with? I have to press "start" to stop my computer ... I understand the confuzzlement. Rb join us today!
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.03 12:36:00 - [165] good thing I am not in our tournament team, I would have fired too. . you'll never jump alone
Trek Minmatar N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.03 12:38:00 - [166] I can definetley see how someone would fire after that countdown, I probably would have too. Adrenaline flowing and just waiting for the command to go, weapons hot, looking at the overview ready to click your primary... In the corner of your eye you see the text ST-something and start locking and your weapons fire one second later. START and STOP can look pretty similar in the heat of the moment you know. I think this is yet another bad ruling from the GMs. Just spawn a new ship for the guy! Wouldnt be the first time stuff is spawned out of nowhere... --- My other ship is a Reaper
Yosarian Minmatar Hand Of The Tahiri	Posted - 2007.09.03 13:13:00 - [167] Nice example of bandwagoning in this thread. Trial by forum is only one step up from a medieval witch-burning. Instead consider this: the question asked in local was unanswered. Given your uncertainty about what was going on it would have been prudent to: - Ask your gang in TS/ vent. No one else fired, so one assumes the rest of the team realized this wasn't the start of the match. Either the whole HI team should have started fighting, or no one. The fact that they didn't shows poor team coordination and leadership. Which is being blamed on the GMs (unreasonably and incorrectly). Put simply: this should and could have been solved by the HI team in their voicecomms during the 25 or so seconds left between the question and the countdown. - Wait a second or so after the end of the countdown to see what's going on. If the lack of an answer made it unclear for you, wait 2 seconds and see. Especially when there is so much at stake. - The excuse of being amped-up is no good. Everyone in that tournament is wired on adrenalin at the start of a match, including most likely the GMs: if it was a reasonable excuse then others would need to use it too. But they don't. Looking at the local chat log it is also clear that HI reacted with obnoxious and disrespectful treatment towards the GMs once the false-start occurred. Just because your corp chat is full of over the top rudeness doesn't mean it's ok to treat the match organisers like that. You blew any chance of them repealing their decision with your reaction.
Paskel Caldari Carthum Research	Posted - 2007.09.03 13:17:00 - [168] Personally I wouldn't have been trying to read local after the "2". Knowing it was one second to the start I would have the mouse pointer on top of my target in overview and I'd just be watching local out of the corner of my eye. As soon as I saw the text shift as the end of the countdown was reached I'd be clicking away / getting the ship moving. Completely understandable mistake. However, killing the camera man was not. Repeatedly people have come out with the "we were angry and frustrated" excuse. Too bad. Things aren't always fair and taking it out on an innocent is BS. If for no other reason this makes the DQ fine with me. I'm somewhat surprised HI will be allowed to carry on in the tournament at all. At least CCP and the GMs are showing some restraint in not DQing you for the rest of the tourney.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.09.03 13:23:00 - [169] Originally by: Owi [ 2007.09.02 18:59:31 ] GM Xamother > 30 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:36 ] Myndpyre Ryche > is that until match start for us or match end for them? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:52 ] GM Xamother > 10 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:54 ] GM Xamother > 9 Ok, so there were 26 seconds between when the question was asked and the stop command was given. Now, why have a count down ? Why not just say 'go' in local. Well you see, it's probably so people can get their mouse over the right spot on the overview, fingers ready to fire etc. When it hits 0, that's when you'd be shooting, not looking at local. I'm truely amazed that both teams at that point didn't open up on each other, perhaps one team was out of range ? Quote: GM Xamother can't interrupt an existing countdown to write an answer, otherwise the countdown would break. I'm pretty sure it's a script, and I'm pretty sure the answer could have been given, I don't think the GM was looking in local :o Throw some GM shield extenders on the camera's. I know it's maybe abit to ask for an event only but surely it wouldn't be too hard to program in a 100% web 10000 strength ecm battery to be active before the match started ? There are WAY WAY too many things in this game that are reliant on GMs and humans etc. Eg, you can't post in COAD without a ticker, but a mod has to come along manually to do that modding. Surely someone could write a script for that. :o Why must everything be done the simple but hard way when for slightly more effort you could make it foolproof. And lets face it, there are alot of fools here, on every side of the fence.
Polinus	Posted - 2007.09.03 13:35:00 - [170] Last tournament, i remember a certain ship in the final was moved out of field to et charges and re online some modules" then brought back.. on my point of view a MUCH MUCH bigger infraction of RULES than any of those on BOTH forfeits! I am really sad with this VERY low level of GM performance.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.09.03 13:48:00 - [171] In the last tournament false starts were just reset and matches were resumed. I know this 'cause we had that trouble twice. Why the change in the rules and the leathercoat overkill? Disqualifications is way harsh and a deterant to the teams getting them from returning to the next tournament, I know we wouldn't, being disqualified seconds into what is the highlight of some of the pilots EVE experience. Also Known As
ParCan angels of darkness LTD Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.03 14:38:00 - [172] I seldom poke my head above the parapet in here. As the next team to fight MC (The ISS Team) we really do think that at the very least we have a right to know the Ship Types that MC brought to the field. This intel is valuable to any combatants, and with the points positions so close in our group for 2nd and 3rd....... Maybe even MC would be kind enough to disclose this info. ParCan PP ISS Tourney Team
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.09.03 14:53:00 - [173] Originally by: ParCan I seldom poke my head above the parapet in here. As the next team to fight MC (The ISS Team) we really do think that at the very least we have a right to know the Ship Types that MC brought to the field. This intel is valuable to any combatants, and with the points positions so close in our group for 2nd and 3rd....... Maybe even MC would be kind enough to disclose this info. ParCan PP ISS Tourney Team I posted here in our official statement along with our ships too, if you want to take a look. Es and Whizz is recruiting
Myndpyre Ryche Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.03 15:00:00 - [174] There was no change in our ship selection from the first round to the second round.

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