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Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 09:28:00 -
[1]
I thought this to be a bug, but was told by the bug-hunters that is was an intended game feature. So I thought I'd share it with you all.
Over the past few weeks, Pure Blind have been infested with Ravens that rat 23/7, 7 days a week. Whenever someone enters local they will log off within 15-30 seconds. Now we all know who these people are, but thats not the discussion here. The problem I want to discuss is how they are impossible to kill because of this intended game feature.
(All the following tips have been tested thoroughly, bug-reported and petitioned, all to be told that it is intened game features.)
So, basically, to rat in 0.0, risk free. You'll get a ratting ship into 0.0 (not that hard with a scout and stabs). Once in your desired system, find a few moons several AU apart and create bookmarks for them. Start ratting. Once someone enters system, immediately start aligning to one of these moons. If someone comes into belt (or on scan), initiate warp and log off as soon as it enters warp.
What will happen is the following. Your ship will stop in mid-warp, sit there for around a minute, then disappear. Now, we all know that your ship can be probed in that minute, but it really doesn't matter. If they manage to find you and even if they manage to warp to you and put aggression on you, don't worry. When you log back in, you will not appear where they probed you down, you will appear at the spot you warped to, which they have no way of knowing. If they managed put aggression on you, don't worry, you won't be aggressed as they put it on you after you logged, and therefore doesn't count. Even if they guess where you'll appear when entering game again, all you got to do is hit scan as fast as possible, if you see a ship, log immediately, you'll never appear where they are waiting for you.
So, get to 0.0, start ratting, make ISK, **** of the locals and live a happy risk free EVE-life. Thank you CCP!
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tiewan
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Posted - 2007.09.03 09:30:00 -
[2]
Which combination of boosters is needed to enable me to rat 23/7?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.03 09:44:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: tiewan
Which combination of boosters is needed to enable me to rat 23/7?
The "power of two" booster, I guess 
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
Agent Nuke
g guild
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Posted - 2007.09.03 09:46:00 -
[4]
I think its the "Sweat Shop" booster. I hear its been around a fair while
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Rorin Cutter
Caldari
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.09.03 10:03:00 -
[5]
is this bad? I don't get it. logging out if your not in combat is no problem.
funny thing though, I keep reading that people want to nerf the prototype 1 an 2 cloaks too. So if your ratting in 0.0 and you can't cloak, and can't goto safespot and log, then what should you be doing cycling ss for an hour?
Besides, that same "bug" if done in a fleet fight gone wrong, or a very laggy 0.0 battle will send you to a POS thats been taken down and is now a hostile POS or ss.
Veni, Vidi, arreViderci...I came, I saw, I said good-bye. |
Konjiro
RED SQUAD
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.09.03 10:56:00 -
[6]
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters. 
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Fon Revedhort
Aeria Gloris Inc
United Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:08:00 -
[7]
Same thing is is Immensea, Tenerifis etc. These macro ratters are all over the place.
Something really has to be done on that.
Either local nerf (say, delayed info refresh) or some new tech2 probes to scan out cloaked afk ships. Yeah, I know it'd been already proposed 1*10^18 times, but anyway...
---
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Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rorin Cutter
is this bad? I don't get it. logging out if your not in combat is no problem.
funny thing though, I keep reading that people want to nerf the prototype 1 an 2 cloaks too. So if your ratting in 0.0 and you can't cloak, and can't goto safespot and log, then what should you be doing cycling ss for an hour?
Besides, that same "bug" if done in a fleet fight gone wrong, or a very laggy 0.0 battle will send you to a POS thats been taken down and is now a hostile POS or ss.
I don't have a problem with people not wanting to fight. Not everyone finds PVP fun so why should they engage in it? But 0.0 is classified as lawless, the rewards are higher than most places, because there is risk involved. I'm not saying it should be 'easy' in any way to get these guys, but when it's impossible I'm against it.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:17:00 -
[9]
My own Idea:
(not 100% perfect, but maybe might get improved by someone....)
Have Logoff disappearance affected by sov, but not in the usual way it is suggested.
Example:
If a raiding group attacking BoB in Delve has Sov ANYWHERE, then if they log off in BoB sov space, they log off normally.
But if a Ratter who's Corp/alliance has no sov anywhere logs off in space where an Alliance has sov, then members of that alliance get (Insert MASSIVE bonuses here) to scan him down and kill him.
The problem with this idea is that honest pvpers in Corps that have no sov would be at added risk in sov space. But it would sure screw the ratters.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:25:00 -
[10]
make fitting a raven with a cloak take longer than 22 days
--
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Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:28:00 -
[11]
I don't think the system need to be tweaked that much. I would be happy if they simply had an aggression timer next time they logged in, if you manged to aggress them before they disappear. That would mean being near them when they logoff, ability to scan, warp and lock in less than a minute and the dedication to wait for them to log back in.
I'm not looking for a way to kill every single person in 0.0, I'm suggesting that with dedication and skill it should be at least possible even if hard.
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Tradari
Gallente
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:29:00 -
[12]
Theres a flaw in this first post, the method is fine right until the ponit you quoted align and IF somone enters your belt u warp off.
What normally happend though is a covert/recon will hunt you down and fast with the right probes warp right on top of you and scrwm u wheile there m8's jump the gate and hit you hard so its not fool proof
Yours
Tradari
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Konjiro
RED SQUAD
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:34:00 -
[13]
The cloak isn't rly a problem for me ( especially after the cloaking nerf ), I have a proble with this log off tactic for example 2 days a ago a friend of mine caught our local macro ratter at the gate. The problem was that this macro guy logged off while he was jumping so he just disappeard after minute, regardless if you disrupt or bubble them they just disappear damn  .
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Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Paul French on 03/09/2007 11:41:41
Edited by: Paul French on 03/09/2007 11:39:57
Originally by: Tradari
Theres a flaw in this first post, the method is fine right until the ponit you quoted align and IF somone enters your belt u warp off.
What normally happend though is a covert/recon will hunt you down and fast with the right probes warp right on top of you and scrwm u wheile there m8's jump the gate and hit you hard so its not fool proof
Yours
Tradari
I'm not sure if you fly Cov-ops yourself, but Cov-ops has a targetting delay of minimum 5 seconds (brought down to 2.5 seconds by Cloaking V), which gives you plenty of time to warp out if you are hovering over 'warp to'. You may also scan for scan probes, just turn yout overview settings off, sort by name, and they'll show up nicely under 'Scanner Probe'.
Cloaking:
Skill at using Cloaking devices. 10% per level reduction in targeting delay after uncloaking per skill level. Can not be trained on Trial Accounts.
EDIT: I didn't say IF, I said OR :)
Sorry, I did say IF .. my mistake.
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Falbala
Gallente
Les Enfants de Gaia
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:38:00 -
[15]
If you had logout in the belt you would catch them no?
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Blind Man
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:43:00 -
[16]
safespot 100 au away works good for me 
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Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Blind Man
safespot 100 au away works good for me
Not when I scan you with Observator Probes
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Darkwolfi
Conisor Excavations Syndicate
Antagonistic Assembly
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:48:00 -
[18]
Park a cloaked cov ops in system (preferably alt), make ratter feel comfortable, probe him down, wait till he's busy ratting, uncloak scramble, get friends in, boom.. patience pays..
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Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 11:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Darkwolfi
Park a cloaked cov ops in system (preferably alt), make ratter feel comfortable, probe him down, wait till he's busy ratting, uncloak scramble, get friends in, boom.. patience pays..
I agree, that would, and has, worked. Problem is it requires sloppyness from the ratter, which they, when you've killed them a few times, get cured of.
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Lougra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.03 12:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters.
No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.
Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it. |
N'irrti
Amarr
PURE Legion
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.09.03 12:16:00 -
[21]
I got one of them by just sitting there in local pretending to be one of those peacefull carebears from lala wonderland who just wants to make some quick iskies. Chatted with them after a while, left some rat wrecks in the belts and did everything to make my blasterthron look like the best friend a ratter could get. After a while (about 2-3h and several logoffskis loginskis) the 3 farmers accepted me as part of their little carebear universe they didn't log off anymore and started farming again.
End of Story: I anchored a small bubble in one of the belts, waited, raven warps right into the bubble, dead raven. Had some shiny Faction Stuff in his cargo 
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Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 12:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: N'irrti
I got one of them by just sitting there in local pretending to be one of those peacefull carebears from lala wonderland who just wants to make some quick iskies. Chatted with them after a while, left some rat wrecks in the belts and did everything to make my blasterthron look like the best friend a ratter could get. After a while (about 2-3h and several logoffskis loginskis) the 3 farmers accepted me as part of their little carebear universe they didn't log off anymore and started farming again.
End of Story: I anchored a small bubble in one of the belts, waited, raven warps right into the bubble, dead raven. Had some shiny Faction Stuff in his cargo
Very nice, I like when people put in the dedication to take out others, I've taken out a few them myself. Right now though, we have 10 systems in Pure Blind with these guys, and since I've put in A LOT of dedication (play time) to hunt them down, they now who I am. Let me stress that people should be able to get away, I'm not for the local nerf as it would just benefit people killing other people and nothing else. I believe you should be able to avoid getting killed if you put some dedication to it.
Examples:
1) You are out ratting, someone enters local; you log. Takes 0 dedication, 0 skill.
2) You are out ratting, someone enters local, you warp to a safespot, watch for probes continously, shifting spots if probes are in the air. Takes average dedication, 0 skill.
3)You are out ratting, someone enters local, you warp to different planets, continously making new mid-safes along to way, shifting to warp between these while still making new ones. High dedication, chance of getting caught is virtually 0.
Now, for no. 3, I'm all for that I can't kill this guy. He put's a lot of effort into it and should be rewarded for that.
For no. 2, I'd drop a Spook Probe outside his scan range and then kill him, takes a bit of skill and dedication on my part.
For no. 1, what can I say. They don't put any effort into getting away, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. This is the one that ****es me of.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.03 12:37:00 -
[23]
Basically, the Ravens are most often seen ships out of low-sec. High-sec is full of them. 0.0 is full of them
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously |
Rorin Cutter
Caldari
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.09.03 13:09:00 -
[24]
Well sorry but I am not one for making it any easier for people who control space to hunt down and take out the "micro ratters", because most of the time they are normal people who are ratting to get enough money for there GTC or next ship. Even better they are spying on your system and cloaked to make you nervous!
The wonderful thing in this game is that it is unfair to everyone. 
What I would do is accept local being changed to a chat only window, in other words people could still use there smack lvl5 skills, but you could not see how many are in local or when they come in or leave. But then we will need a new type of drone or better yet ship mod. That everyone could use. It could work like radar, say 5au or so, that alerts you when a neut. / red is in range. Sort of like a ôDanger Will Robinson, Dangerö type thing.
Veni, Vidi, arreViderci...I came, I saw, I said good-bye. |
Gaia Thorn
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Posted - 2007.09.03 13:33:00 -
[25]
Ok here's my view on things.
If you engage a rat u get a 2 minute aggro timer ( confirmed by devs )
Easiest thing to do is jump in a cov ops drop a probe, jump out.
Wait for the a hole to decloak and begin ratting again.
Jump in see him either logoff or try and cloak.
Probe him out take a pot shot at him which will reset the timer according to DEV's giving u 15 minutes to take him down.
And once u pop the ship the pod also get 15 minutes aggro.
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NeoThermic
Sulithus
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Posted - 2007.09.03 13:51:00 -
[26]
Alternatively, at a push it is possible to probe out and destroy a ship in that 1 minute before it vanishes.
___________________________
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Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.09.03 14:26:00 -
[27]
Easiest way is to get them used to your presence.. rat a bit, don't bother them. Eventually you'll see that they start finishing off the rat before warping off, and that's when you can jump in and kill them.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.03 14:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters.
No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.
Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?
At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap
at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.
Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE
Local Thread 107-b |
Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.03 14:41:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
My own Idea:
(not 100% perfect, but maybe might get improved by someone....)
Have Logoff disappearance affected by sov, but not in the usual way it is suggested.
Example:
If a raiding group attacking BoB in Delve has Sov ANYWHERE, then if they log off in BoB sov space, they log off normally.
But if a Ratter who's Corp/alliance has no sov anywhere logs off in space where an Alliance has sov, then members of that alliance get (Insert MASSIVE bonuses here) to scan him down and kill him.
The problem with this idea is that honest pvpers in Corps that have no sov would be at added risk in sov space. But it would sure screw the ratters.
I would support a timer being put on players logging out on non sovereign systems to prevent log off tactics. The Same goes for gates 3min timer if you "conveniently" log out once you click jump.
Local Thread 107-b |
Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.03 15:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Trishan
Easiest way is to get them used to your presence.. rat a bit, don't bother them. Eventually you'll see that they start finishing off the rat before warping off, and that's when you can jump in and kill them.
Works for 1 kill, I already killed 3 of their Ravens, so I don't think they'll fall for it :(
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Akat
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.03 15:52:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Akat on 03/09/2007 15:55:05
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
Same thing is is Immensea, Tenerifis etc. These macro ratters are all over the place.
Something really has to be done on that.
Either local nerf (say, delayed info refresh) or some new tech2 probes to scan out cloaked afk ships. Yeah, I know it'd been already proposed 1*10^18 times, but anyway...
Its pretty bad in any 0.0 region. We've managed to kill several of them multiple times, but they keep coming back. On occasion, they'll band together and try to kill us; quite hilarious tbh.
I could actually care less about being able to probe "them" down. They'll come back no matter how many times you kill them. One in particular lost 3 ravens to us this past weekend.
What I'd prefer is allow us to probe down secure containers and murder their logistical backbone. A few of my corpmates and I got lucky and managed to probe some of their safes before they cloaked, only to find they had a cache of cans packed to the brim with torpedoes and loot.
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Evengard
Solar Dragons
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.03 20:42:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Darkwolfi
Park a cloaked cov ops in system (preferably alt), make ratter feel comfortable, probe him down, wait till he's busy ratting, uncloak scramble, get friends in, boom.. patience pays..
Useless, they sit cloacked for 15-20 minutes, then logoff.
After some time login, and continue ratting or sit cloacked again. Can you get 20-30 cov-ops for each region ??
Actually this is happening all over the universe. We have same in Insmother, WC, Scalding, Detorid.
These are chineese mostly, they start hunting 21 EVE time, and up to DT.
___________________
Recon and Intercept |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.09.03 22:07:00 -
[33]
Here is a wild idea, stop pretending killing people in ratting ships is PVP, stop wasting your time hunting them, they mean NOTHING to you do NOTHING to you. Why are you so obsessed with NPC ratters? grow up start playing the damn game and stop looking for easy risk free kills.
you know damn well if you want that system to rat in yourself they logged you take over you win.
Seriously what is with all the weenies who feel compelled to hunt people in npc set ups knowing they are sure wins if they can force the fight and then ***** the people do everything possible not to fight? You are in 0.0 go play the damn game battle other corps alliances etc...
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Aleksi Maksimovich
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Posted - 2007.09.03 23:08:00 -
[34]
Perhaps no one has thought of this - I have never used them personally but hey here's an idea
why not anchor the biggest most bad mofo bubble in all the belts, leave the system, get like 20-30 ships together, he will log back in and warp to a belt like a good little llama and you can jump in and lay waste.
again not sure of bubble mechanics but i cant see why that wouldnt work.
my two cents.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.04 00:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Here is a wild idea, stop pretending killing people in ratting ships is PVP, stop wasting your time hunting them, they mean NOTHING to you do NOTHING to you. Why are you so obsessed with NPC ratters? grow up start playing the damn game and stop looking for easy risk free kills.
you know damn well if you want that system to rat in yourself they logged you take over you win.
Seriously what is with all the weenies who feel compelled to hunt people in npc set ups knowing they are sure wins if they can force the fight and then ***** the people do everything possible not to fight? You are in 0.0 go play the damn game battle other corps alliances etc...
See heres the problem you've got a Mission bot mentality in 0.0 space.
For those that don't know a mission bot is a player who lives exclusively in high sec and runs missions missions are perpetually run until the player has a State Issue Raven With a full estamel fit.
0.0 NPC'ers are exploiting the riches of the land with little to no risk. You're belief that they should not die because they don't change anything is ridiculous. They could very well be some ones alts funding some one else's PvP or maybe they are building up funds for a corp project. They are out there getting money for a reason not just for the sake of having money.
Until you can get that through your head maybe you'll understand why it is ridiculous that 0.0 ratting is as safe as it is. Are they entitled to their rights to convert torps into isk? No. Am I entitled to kill them? No. But Currently game mechanics makes it significantly more difficult to deal damage to them as opposed to the mechanics that allow them to avoid damage.
All because they aren't fitting warp scramblers doesn't mean they aren't effecting PvP. They are effecting the market, moving supplies, putting isk in some ones pocket.
That is the problem. Not this manifest destiny of the rights of a belt ratter that you guys have carved into skiulls.
Local Thread 107-b |
Shinithra
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Posted - 2007.09.04 00:35:00 -
[36]
The Local chat box should be like Alliance chat box - 5min delay - problem solved 
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Hyuuga Veralis
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.09.04 00:57:00 -
[37]
Shps should never vanish from space, period.
If CCP would keep in mind the cut-throat aspect of EVE, they would do just that. Unless you dock, or logout inside a POS, you're open season in lowsec/0.0
--------------
Fulfilling 0.0 Ammo needs since 2 days after being made. |
Callthetruth
Caldari
Drunken Ratbags Inc
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:16:00 -
[38]
stop trying to claim vast areas of space u can control, either that or get in high sec ratters real players u charge a small fee to use youre space ( oh btw dont shoot those ones) they will rat in youre systems and pay a small fee. ( think bob populating their space) u can PVP and the 0.0 chinesse farmers the renters can keep busy.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:18:00 -
[39]
how to whine on the forums, risk free
make an alt 
ok really i just wanted to parody the topic
Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums:
Quote:
Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
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Necrophorus
Corp die auf alles schiesst wo was sie Lust hat
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis
Shps should never vanish from space, period.
If CCP would keep in mind the cut-throat aspect of EVE, they would do just that. Unless you dock, or logout inside a POS, you're open season in lowsec/0.0
or just make the aggression timer standard for every logout. so, your ship will stay in place 15min and then disappear, so that noone can abuse strg+q to avoid being killed.
*me starts dreaming of an eve where there is a risk to die in unsecure times*
*me dreams of ccp fixing risk.vs.reward in eve*
but i think this will stay a dream and there will never be real risk for those who knowshow to use the godgiven gamemechanics to avoid being killed :D
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CCCP lalalalalla
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:43:00 -
[41]
Easiest way to kill a Macro.
Using proxy ips make several noob alt accounts. Leave them in all macrosystems. Go to a belt shoot their wreck. If they log off they are dead because of aggro on wreck. If they cloak, just leave the noob alt there and shoot the wreck every 10 min waiting for him to log.. he will eventually.
Instant win. I dont use proxy ips, but nor do I have 10k alts like burn eden. Dont see whats so hard about it.
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etgfrogs
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Akat
Edited by: Akat on 03/09/2007 16:04:14
Its pretty bad in any 0.0 region.
this is NOT a problem for the drone region, why? because the rats there dont have bounties, but the average bs still drops 1-2 mil worth of refinables in a nice 150 m3 package.
solution to the problem of all these isk farmers, kill bounties in 0.0 region then increase the amount of stuff they drop. that way you cant just sit in a system farming constantly, you need to haul your stuff back to somewhere.
i know there will be quite a few complainers about this since the bounties are an easy way of getting money, yea, i know that people wouldn't like seeing a change like this, but it is a sollution to this problem.
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Dant Kramble
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Posted - 2007.09.04 02:01:00 -
[43]
HereÆs an over-the-top suggestion that IÆm not sure addresses the issue, but might stir the pot a bit on it.
Reactive NPC Spawns
Macro ratting is a symptom of limited game design. All game design is limited, so thatÆs not directly a knock on CCP. For me, the solution to this perceived problem (as well as many others) is in more ambitious game design.
IÆd like to see system-wide escalation of spawns, certainly over the downtime-to-downtime cycle, but maybe even at a larger scale.
It doesnÆt have to be complicated, simple lists of NPC spawns that have probabilities to spawn based on whats been going on.
PVP is all rock-paper-scissor, why is PVE all one of those in any given system?
Some ratter in a system cycling through belts ought to draw the attention of a mini-Concord scale reaction after a while. Disruptors, the whole bit.
IÆm all for PVP, but we ought to let the rats step up a bit as well.
I know, I know, people will simply move to another system and start over. But if you let it accumulate over days, they will run out of systems. Both locals and the macroers will become more concentrated, and the macroers will be driven off.
Maybe killing an NPC dread would reset the original system.
I know about loot and inflation, etc. Just make the payoff/hour worse as the spawn escalation continues.
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Jack Jombardo
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Posted - 2007.09.04 02:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Konjiro
... or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system.
so that every 3 week old wanabe-Pirate can "sneek" and kill you without warning while you are fighting with Rats?
year, realy great plan 
as if it isn't dangoures enough for players with less then 50m SP and no highend Corp as background .... you like to have "free kills" now?
should I wait at any gate without weapons fitted so you don't have to warp?
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Agent 452
Caldari
Redback Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.04 03:21:00 -
[45]
now, i'm no veteran, but this is so damn simple it just might work...
What if cloaked ships didn't show up in local?
recons could actually recon, wihtout alreting everyone to their presence. would allow a recon to manually find players, although if he wants to actively run scans, he has to alert the system to his presence. This also is balanced by allowing the ratters to dissapear fro local when they cloak, so that people aren't sure if you've logged or not.
In short, if you wanted to do a sneaky sneaky scout, you need to actually use a sneaky ship. If you want to jump in in a BS with full ganker setup, they might see you coming. :O
From an RP perspective, you aren't registering yourself on the local public comms channel when you're running silent and stealthed - big supprise. Maybe even make it impossible to chat in local while cloacked (although you could still look at other players and read.)
thoughts?
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Verite Rendition
Caldari
AUS Corporation
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.09.04 04:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: etgfrogs
Originally by: Akat
Edited by: Akat on 03/09/2007 16:04:14
Its pretty bad in any 0.0 region.
this is NOT a problem for the drone region, why? because the rats there dont have bounties, but the average bs still drops 1-2 mil worth of refinables in a nice 150 m3 package.
solution to the problem of all these isk farmers, kill bounties in 0.0 region then increase the amount of stuff they drop. that way you cant just sit in a system farming constantly, you need to haul your stuff back to somewhere.
i know there will be quite a few complainers about this since the bounties are an easy way of getting money, yea, i know that people wouldn't like seeing a change like this, but it is a sollution to this problem.
They already have the logistics to haul stuff, albeit not in large quantities. The friend of the Raven is the Badger, you'll find them all over 0.0
----
AUS Corp
Lead Megalomanic
EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD |
JonnyWarhawk
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.04 04:24:00 -
[47]
I've noticed this as well. We have a few chinese isk farmers who constantly farm in Tribute and it is impossible to stop them. Sigh.
- - -
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.04 04:30:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/09/2007 02:48:18
Originally by: Konjiro
... or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system.
so that every 3 week old wanabe-Pirate can "sneek" and kill you without warning while you are fighting with Rats?
year, realy great plan
as if it isn't dangoures enough for players with less then 50m SP and no highend Corp as background .... you like to have "free kills" now? should I wait at any gate without weapons fitted so you don't have to warp?
What the hell are you talking about. First off if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. 0.0 is supposed to be the most dangerous place there is. At the moment all you have to do is make it past the entry and your home free.
Why are you entitled to massive isk potential with no risk?
Why is it not fair for you to lose a ship because you were I'll prepared?
From your post it seems that you rat with no weapons fitted how do you do that!?
Local is for talking not cloaking.
There is supposed to be risk outside of .5 but currently local reduces that greatly.
I am not entitled to kill you but there had better be a way for me to do so that doesn't involve meta gaming and log on traps. The isk you are farming is funding some ones pvp one way or another there is no reason you are to be exempt all because you are the one converting torps into cash.
Trying to get a government to solve this is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard do you know HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET THINGS DONE IN A GOVERNMENT!?.
You want risk free isk in a high risk zone and there is no way in hell I'm going to support that.
Why should you get an alarm that alerts you of danger instantaneously!?
Don't give me a bs rp reason either I want facts!
Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor is a war without harsh enough penalties |
Takarina
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Posted - 2007.09.04 04:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCCP lalalalalla
Go to a belt shoot their wreck. If they log off they are dead because of aggro on wreck.
uh they fixed that awhile ago
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.09.04 05:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis
Shps should never vanish from space, period.
If CCP would keep in mind the cut-throat aspect of EVE, they would do just that. Unless you dock, or logout inside a POS, you're open season in lowsec/0.0
Gee, doesn't that just ruin the day of those who don't/can't put POSes up, even those who have gone to great lengths to avoid having to run the entry point every time (i.e. safespot networks, ammo caches, etc)
If I could stay on 23/7 to keep my cloak going ... no, it would still be unrealistic. I still have to force my way in, I still have to get setup to survive, I still have to be ready to run and hide at the drop of a hat, and I still have a real life to manage. Why the hell should 0.0 be sealed off to me completely so you can get in a couple easy ganks?
I still have plenty of risk. Nowhere to repair hull, nowhere to really call home, one interceptor can do unkind things to me with his followup gang, waiting for a week for the safe time to get out of 0.0 to align with when I could play Eve ... no, my gameplay isn't hindered at ALL by the nature of the space ...
Adapt and overcome, Hyuuga, or whatever your main's name is. I did, and I made my isk and somehow got out without dying.
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DeMundus
The Establishment
Establishment
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Posted - 2007.09.04 05:41:00 -
[51]
Just put Rats in that scramble... and lots more of them! It is silly... I have stayed in low sec to hunt because of this... every1 and thier mom log off when a stranger enters local in 0.0...
Abandon all hope But take care of teh cake!11 - Immy |
Lougra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.04 05:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters.
No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.
Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?
At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap
at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.
Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE
Who talked about the ability to sitting solo in 0.0? im talking for a specific situation.
In mining community it is known that barges (retriever covetors) cannot tank at all. The only 'protection' that miners has in 0.0 better than any gang is the local.
But of course is known, everyone who express an opinion for combat, is 100% sure that opinion is based on how they want to destroy other's ships without caring about balance at all.
Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it. |
Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.04 05:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters.
No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.
Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?
At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap
at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.
Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE
Who talked about the ability to sitting solo in 0.0? im talking for a specific situation.
In mining community it is known that barges (retriever covetors) cannot tank at all. The only 'protection' that miners has in 0.0 better than any gang is the local.
But of course is known, everyone who express an opinion for combat, is 100% sure that opinion is based on how they want to destroy other's ships without caring about balance at all.
Exhumers were designed for this space I suggest you use them.
What you are doing is taking your merlin into a lvl 4 mission in theory it can be done with some finesse but there are better ways to do this.
You have a scanner use it stay aligned to warp out
I fail to see what the problem is
Bring escorts with ECM or damps
if you can not field the tools to defend yourself then do not complain about your masochism that you seem to be flaunting in this post
Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor is a war without harsh enough penalties |
Mirirar
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2007.09.04 06:02:00 -
[54]
1) make non-covert ops cloaks require fuel
2) make aggression against rats count towards a pvp logout timer.
Of course, that would mean farmers close accounts.
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Lougra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.04 06:32:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters.
No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.
Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?
At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap
at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.
Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE
Who talked about the ability to sitting solo in 0.0? im talking for a specific situation.
In mining community it is known that barges (retriever covetors) cannot tank at all. The only 'protection' that miners has in 0.0 better than any gang is the local.
But of course is known, everyone who express an opinion for combat, is 100% sure that opinion is based on how they want to destroy other's ships without caring about balance at all.
Exhumers were designed for this space I suggest you use them.
What you are doing is taking your merlin into a lvl 4 mission in theory it can be done with some finesse but there are better ways to do this.
You have a scanner use it stay aligned to warp out
I fail to see what the problem is
Bring escorts with ECM or damps
if you can not field the tools to defend yourself then do not complain about your masochism that you seem to be flaunting in this post
You expecting me to invest 200+m in t2 ship and equipment at same time where a t1 bc can destroy my hulk easily?
You expecting me to have my corp mates in alert, gamping gates, deplying bubbles to protect me, and at same time my covetor has 0 tank ability? Where is the effort from YOUR side when you can destroy a fitted barge of 40+m only by using a cheap frigate?
It seems that trying to show a point to a guy which has a pathetic level of intelligence is a masochism.
Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it. |
Paul French
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Posted - 2007.09.04 09:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
how to whine on the forums, risk free
make an alt
ok really i just wanted to parody the topic
Heh, good one. Paul is obviously my alt. I considered posting with my main, but decided against it as I saw no need to alert any more of them to my hunting. Incidently, I got 2 more of those Raven's since the topic started.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.04 13:57:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lougra
You expecting me to invest 200+m in t2 ship and equipment at same time where a t1 bc can destroy my hulk easily?
You expecting me to have my corp mates in alert, gamping gates, deplying bubbles to protect me, and at same time my covetor has 0 tank ability? Where is the effort from YOUR side when you can destroy a fitted barge of 40+m only by using a cheap frigate?
It seems that trying to show a point to a guy which has a pathetic level of intelligence is a masochism.
The effort on my side would be 1 getting down there avoid the "Intel" channel scouts
2.Finding You
3. Scanning your position down
4. Warping to that position
Effort steps 3 and 4 possibly even step 2 are circumvented by local.
Now if a t1 BC makes it past the entry point no prob then some ones doing something wrong.
But hey since we like to throw isk as justification.
I am flying a jaguar with 3 tobias gyro stabilizers fitted no weapons no propulsion jamming equipment. According to your theory of isk justifies lack of risk I should be able to instapop you and every one in my path by stating that I have 3 faction gyro's fitted.
If you want that high end Ore you should work for it not excercise this manifest destiny or your right as a miner
Now I know what your thinking "BUT YOU STUPID GANKERS DO NO WORK" and a lot of the carebear (people that consider pvp on par with rape) crowd likes to throw that around but honestly
Try piracy outside of a gate and its difficulty increases quite a bit. As opposed to oh I don't know
lock
Approach
Activate Strip miners
Haul
but hey thats just me
Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor is a war without harsh enough penalties |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2007.09.04 14:04:00 -
[58]
How about a cov-ops/force recon to scram?
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.04 14:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
How about a cov-ops/force recon to scram?
1. Enter Local
2. Warp belt to scan
2.5. Target logs or cloaks
3. Well whats on TV
Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor is a war without harsh enough penalties |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2007.09.04 14:09:00 -
[60]
sorry it was in resposne to the OP saying they aligned when you entered local, not when you decloaked  With a sensor booster, and the scrammer ready to go active as soon as you lock, I'd have thought you'd get a chance at catching them... maybe not 
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Konjiro
RED SQUAD
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.09.04 15:23:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Konjiro on 04/09/2007 15:23:33
Another simple solution for this problem is to give the BS NPC's scrambler ( all of them ) wohoooo problem solved
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.04 15:55:00 -
[62]
It is always risk free even if you change the timers. You can always warp between safespots for X time, if you cannot log off immediately, it will just creating a boring timesink for those who don't want to get caught. There is no point in thinking of such solutions with the safespot-warp alternative available. Get used to it.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.04 17:28:00 -
[63]
The post about removing Bounties from all Rats would solve the problem. As a Drone Region resident, we honestly don't have any Farmers around. I attribute it to the problem of hauling.
Face it: At present, anyone wishing to Rat will only have to move stuff to/from Empire once. The first time you bring in a hauler will cans full of ammo, a Raven, and use an alt to scout. You can then Rat/logoffski until out of ammo, then repeat with a hauler full of loot. In the Drone Regions, you would find your hauler full of Minerals (which take time to loot/salvage) well before you used even a single can full of ammo. And with no Bounties, those Minerals are your full reward.
Now, do you really think that you can't stop a Hauler from flying 15-ish jumps to and from Empire several times a day? There is your solution to Farming right there.
So...Since people seem to wanna stop Chinese ISK Farmers / Macroers / unwanted Ratters ... I wholeheartedly support the removal of ISK bountes. Remove the Security Gain as well. Increase the module drops, to create the loot that becomes the Reward.
If you don't like this idea, then paint yourself as a Hypocrite if you ever critize a 'Fix the Drone Regions' thread. Cuz that is exactly what we have to deal with in the Drone regions. And guess what? - Farmers seem to be a problem we don't have.
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prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.09.04 17:59:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
The post about removing Bounties from all Rats would solve the problem. As a Drone Region resident, we honestly don't have any Farmers around. I attribute it to the problem of hauling.
Face it: At present, anyone wishing to Rat will only have to move stuff to/from Empire once. The first time you bring in a hauler will cans full of ammo, a Raven, and use an alt to scout. You can then Rat/logoffski until out of ammo, then repeat with a hauler full of loot. In the Drone Regions, you would find your hauler full of Minerals (which take time to loot/salvage) well before you used even a single can full of ammo. And with no Bounties, those Minerals are your full reward.
Now, do you really think that you can't stop a Hauler from flying 15-ish jumps to and from Empire several times a day? There is your solution to Farming right there.
So...Since people seem to wanna stop Chinese ISK Farmers / Macroers / unwanted Ratters ... I wholeheartedly support the removal of ISK bountes. Remove the Security Gain as well. Increase the module drops, to create the loot that becomes the Reward.
If you don't like this idea, then paint yourself as a Hypocrite if you ever critize a 'Fix the Drone Regions' thread. Cuz that is exactly what we have to deal with in the Drone regions. And guess what? - Farmers seem to be a problem we don't have.
thread won ...genius!
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.04 18:20:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
The post about removing Bounties from all Rats would solve the problem. As a Drone Region resident, we honestly don't have any Farmers around. I attribute it to the problem of hauling.
Face it: At present, anyone wishing to Rat will only have to move stuff to/from Empire once. The first time you bring in a hauler will cans full of ammo, a Raven, and use an alt to scout. You can then Rat/logoffski until out of ammo, then repeat with a hauler full of loot. In the Drone Regions, you would find your hauler full of Minerals (which take time to loot/salvage) well before you used even a single can full of ammo. And with no Bounties, those Minerals are your full reward.
Now, do you really think that you can't stop a Hauler from flying 15-ish jumps to and from Empire several times a day? There is your solution to Farming right there.
So...Since people seem to wanna stop Chinese ISK Farmers / Macroers / unwanted Ratters ... I wholeheartedly support the removal of ISK bountes. Remove the Security Gain as well. Increase the module drops, to create the loot that becomes the Reward.
If you don't like this idea, then paint yourself as a Hypocrite if you ever critize a 'Fix the Drone Regions' thread. Cuz that is exactly what we have to deal with in the Drone regions. And guess what? - Farmers seem to be a problem we don't have.
But what about people who don't like being -10
also about the no farmer's in the drone regions don't make me laugh
Ask Awox if there are farmers in the drone regions
matter a fact I can name you a few of their hauler characters that they send through skarkon - paala when they are moving parts
aszv
afhl
iceoq
they have a scout character by the name of
Detis S
they also incorporate with the farmers who hide in Tau Ceti International and KOS
agilyqo is one of their escorts when they haul and actually smack talked me once
Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor is a war without harsh enough penalties |
Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.04 18:37:00 -
[66]
- My security status is 4.2. It was 5.0, but I killed in low sec awhile back.
- Not sure of the area you're menioning. I don't see Farmers. Ever.
- Sounds like you've identified an allianc member helping the Farmers? If so, take action in the alliance. Cuz without help there is NO docking in the Drone Regions for neutrals.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.04 18:40:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
- My security status is 4.2. It was 5.0, but I killed in low sec awhile back.
- Not sure of the area you're menioning. I don't see Farmers. Ever.
- Sounds like you've identified an allianc member helping the Farmers? If so, take action in the alliance. Cuz without help there is NO docking in the Drone Regions for neutrals.
Well there is a barren area I come across in the drone regions when I do my rounds and I'll see the occasional
2 nouns = name characters.
They don't need to dock they've got Safe spots full of GSC's out there some where. I've seen it out near the goon space in 5Q if you do a scan around planet VIII I think you'll see the scanner filled with GSC's
Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor is a war without harsh enough penalties |
Major Stallion
Four Rings
D-L
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Posted - 2007.09.04 18:54:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Here is a wild idea, stop pretending killing people in ratting ships is PVP, stop wasting your time hunting them, they mean NOTHING to you do NOTHING to you. Why are you so obsessed with NPC ratters? grow up start playing the damn game and stop looking for easy risk free kills.
you know damn well if you want that system to rat in yourself they logged you take over you win.
Seriously what is with all the weenies who feel compelled to hunt people in npc set ups knowing they are sure wins if they can force the fight and then ***** the people do everything possible not to fight? You are in 0.0 go play the damn game battle other corps alliances etc...
words spoken from an ISK buyer, perhaps?
________________________________
High Sec PvP
Originally by: "Wylker"
CCP has finally mastered stupidity
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Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2007.09.04 19:40:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Gort on 04/09/2007 19:41:10
Originally by: etgfrogs
Originally by: Akat
Edited by: Akat on 03/09/2007 16:04:14
Its pretty bad in any 0.0 region.
this is NOT a problem for the drone region, why? because the rats there dont have bounties, but the average bs still drops 1-2 mil worth of refinables in a nice 150 m3 package.
solution to the problem of all these isk farmers, kill bounties in 0.0 region then increase the amount of stuff they drop. that way you cant just sit in a system farming constantly, you need to haul your stuff back to somewhere.
i know there will be quite a few complainers about this since the bounties are an easy way of getting money, yea, i know that people wouldn't like seeing a change like this, but it is a sollution to this problem.
There are macro ratters all over the drone regions. Very sophisticated, really, and damn hard to catch. They tractor the wrecks to the belt beacon then haul the alloy with T2 Haulers. All the BS accounts are about three months old, with names even beyond the usual "you can't primary me" Eve obtuseness. Local is utterly silent, of course, except once in awhile there is a minder looking in.
I think it will continue until CCP seriously changes the game mechanics to make automated resource collection too risky to be profitable. Until then, well, 0.0 belongs to both the significant alliances and the isk-farmers.
G
Edit: Crappy grammer.
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
SexxxSlave
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Gort
Edit: Crappy grammer.
ohhhh the irony of that comment. |
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