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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.09.03 22:50:00 -
[1]
Here's an idea for nerfing sensor dampeners, probably been mentioned before. You should stacking nerf them against the target so that once someone has three sensor damps being used against them, adding more will have barely any effect. Not sure how feasible that is in terms of coding, but I think that would be the best thing to do.
The thing about regular ECM is that its a dice roll and each module is calculated independently. So if you use a couple ECCM you have a good shot at surviving the dice roll of even a dozen ECM modules being used against you because you roll against each individually.
But with sensor damps there is no roll, they all work 100% all the time. So even if you counter with sensor boosters the enemy just has to throw more on you and you are screwed, Then it just becomes a numbers game and a blob war, who can throw down more damps or sensor booseters. With ECM, throwing down more modules isn't necessarily going to win out, so its not really a numbers war but more about who has fitted their ships out right and that is the way it should be.
If someone goes to the effort of countering with sensor boosters, and even with backup remote sensor boosters from gangmates, they should be able to survive. But instead the enemy will just throw down more sensor damps and the counter is completely ineffective. If you stacking nerf sensor damps in relation to a target, then if someone counters they will be able to fight. ----------------------------------------------------
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Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.09.03 23:03:00 -
[2]
I agree that damps is the new "stick a multispec on every ship" and they should take a small nerf. What Ive thought is the way they "nerfed" jamming. Reduce the effectivness of damps to almost nothing, like 1/10 of the effectivness they have now, and ad a low slot damage mod. That way dedicated damp ships such as Arazu could still use them with some affectivness. Long before Rev 1 I often used 8 slots for sensor boosters and jammers and a 4 slot armour tank on my scorp, now I have to use 3 damage mods and is down to 1 slot armour tank. Cant see why the damp boats shouldnt be forced to do the same.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:33:00 -
[3]
Just reduce power of damps on all ships by 50% and increase lache/maulus/celestis (and whatever else is damp-platform) bonus by 100% (so its same as pre-nerf).
Ah an in advance - do EXACTLY same to tracking disruptors :)
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MasterDecoy
Gallente The Grifters
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Posted - 2007.09.04 04:12:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Just reduce power of damps on all ships by 50% and increase lache/maulus/celestis (and whatever else is damp-platform) bonus by 100% (so its same as pre-nerf).
Ah an in advance - do EXACTLY same to tracking disruptors :)
seriously, this. i'd hate they take away my tracking disruptors. but it's the sensible thing to do...
Originally by: Evilempire1 good, im pentitioning you for slandering.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.04 05:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron Here's an idea for nerfing sensor dampeners, probably been mentioned before. You should stacking nerf them against the target so that once someone has three sensor damps being used against them, adding more will have barely any effect. Not sure how feasible that is in terms of coding, but I think that would be the best thing to do.
The thing about regular ECM is that its a dice roll and each module is calculated independently. So if you use a couple ECCM you have a good shot at surviving the dice roll of even a dozen ECM modules being used against you because you roll against each individually.
But with sensor damps there is no roll, they all work 100% all the time. So even if you counter with sensor boosters the enemy just has to throw more on you and you are screwed, Then it just becomes a numbers game and a blob war, who can throw down more damps or sensor booseters. With ECM, throwing down more modules isn't necessarily going to win out, so its not really a numbers war but more about who has fitted their ships out right and that is the way it should be.
If someone goes to the effort of countering with sensor boosters, and even with backup remote sensor boosters from gangmates, they should be able to survive. But instead the enemy will just throw down more sensor damps and the counter is completely ineffective. If you stacking nerf sensor damps in relation to a target, then if someone counters they will be able to fight.
It's like it's noob week or something. Damps *are* stacking nerfed. Go back to Planetside.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.09.04 08:27:00 -
[6]
Damps are stacking nerfed, I believe the problem is that sensor boosters come into play after the damps are taken into account, so they're not a particularly useful counter. (though they help 'abit'). The reality is they don't need nerfing, they need an effective counter.
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Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:09:00 -
[7]
"the problem with damps..." see when someone hits you with 4 slots of e-war, he has 4 slots less tank or mods, 1-2 damps are not enough to do any harm unless at long range. as it is now damps are the most favored ewar because: 1. it affects turret and missile ships alike (unlike tracking disruptors) 2. it has the range to do this (unlike ecm, which beyond 50k is useless, unless on dedicated ships), and fleet battles are fought at long ranges 3. it has better cap need than ECM 4. it is not race speciffic
ecm used to be the old dampners, when it was nerfed a bit more than it should have, ppl adapted and took the 2. best mod.
-- Tempus fugit -- |
DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:06:00 -
[8]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=569979
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:10:00 -
[9]
Damps are not exactly the new "stick a multispec on every ship" module.
While a single multispec was hilariously effective and basically won the fight for you if the opponent didnt have one or you simply locked faster. Damps on the other hand require more then a single module to make sense in most cases, rather 3 so they dont really compare to pre nerf multis imho.
If you want to limit all EW types to certain specialized ships (which is fine per se) you have to come up with useful alternatives people can put into their med slots or you are putting ships with additional meds over what is needed to fit the essentials at a disadvantage.
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Major Stallion
Four Rings D-L
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:18:00 -
[10]
all these people calling for a nerf to damps. I'm hoping you all know that all you have to do is stay out of their optimal range.
The only thing that SHOULD be changed about them is the falloff, and MAYBE shorten their optimal range by 15% or so. But seriously, whats with the "nerf this" and the "nerf that" threads????
Item Database | Remote Sensor Dampener II ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Originally by: "Wylker" CCP has finally mastered stupidity
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Bendit
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Posted - 2007.09.04 21:28:00 -
[11]
This is taken from another post i made here
Not my ideas, I combined two ideas and just put it up to see what peeps feel.
Will copy it here for the lazy one.
1: Cut the sig resolution penalty you get from damps in half, so at max skills you have 30% penalty on the sig resolution. ( Or just reduce them the same amount as suggested below )
This for not nerfing peeps totally when they get damped. A chance to fight back if they can lock. And sensorbooster would have a bigger boost then the negative effect from the damps, as long as they dont have rigs or come from a specced ship.
2: Reduce the strength on the damps slightly. Not to much, but just enough that you would need 2xTech 1 rigs to get up to the level they are now with maxed skills.
Maxed skills + 2xTech 1 rigs = 61% reduced range
This would mean that fitting damps on T1 ships would not be as effective as now. And the speced ships would get the strength up there with the ship bonus. And could buff them even more if wanted with rigs.
This would also mean that if peeps wanted they could fit damps, but they would need rigs to get the same effect as now. And they would not be able have both range AND strength. Except the specced ships. Would make them special as the rook, bb, and falcon.
Does it make any sense?
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Nasair
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Posted - 2007.09.05 00:30:00 -
[12]
I thought they said on eve TV during the tournament that damps will be split into two groups, one that reduces locking range and one that increases time to lock
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.09.05 02:28:00 -
[13]
The only problem with damps is the way they are stacking nerfed with sensor boosters. As it is now, the damps do full effect, and then the booster is left with a massive nerf to bring the range/res back up. Boosters and dampeners should not be on the same stacking tier.
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tiki bmp
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.05 05:15:00 -
[14]
damps are realy overpowered yes.
carrier < arazu
and thats a carrier with 3x t2 sensor booster :P an you are sooo stuck with the arazu warp scrambleing from 42km
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Bendit
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Posted - 2007.09.05 05:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: tiki bmp damps are realy overpowered yes.
carrier < arazu
and thats a carrier with 3x t2 sensor booster :P an you are sooo stuck with the arazu warp scrambleing from 42km
LOL, carirers are not supposed to be solomachines. If you have freinds that arazu would been dead in no time.
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tiki bmp
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.05 05:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bendit
Originally by: tiki bmp damps are realy overpowered yes.
carrier < arazu
and thats a carrier with 3x t2 sensor booster :P an you are sooo stuck with the arazu warp scrambleing from 42km
LOL, carirers are not supposed to be solomachines. If you have freinds that arazu would been dead in no time.
thats not the point.
my point is the sensor strength is 75+ and thats 4x that of a bs and is harder to jamm by a rook. while the arazu gets it done in 1 go and permanent. and then you have sensor boosters fitted witch should counter the effect.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
xttz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.05 12:42:00 -
[17]
Edited by: xttz on 05/09/2007 12:42:52 How about splitting damps into multispec/racial in the same way as ECM? Multispecs would get around 30% of their current strength, while racials get full effect against their target race and 10% strength against others. You now have an ewar mod that isn't as spammable without knowing exactly what you're fighting, as well as meaning that capitals need more specialised ships to neutralize them.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.09.05 13:48:00 -
[18]
The thing about splitting RSDs is you run the risk of nerfing them to somewhere in the regime of ECM effectiveness, without the benefits of it (locks broken, ship unable to target - essentially out of the fight).
This isn't the situation at the moment with carriers, or perhaps more accurately, it isn't the situation when the carrier itself is not being directly engaged. It's been stated by the devs a couple of times that the carriers should not be solopwnmobiles, though their tank ensures that you need more then just the damp ship to take them.
But here's the important point - RSDs aren't going to effect the carriers fighters if it has them delegated out, i.e. is flying as part of a fleet.
This seems like an important point to me seeing the current popularity of fighter doomsday lag blobs.
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Magazaki
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Posted - 2007.09.05 14:07:00 -
[19]
Instead of nerfing RSD's...
Why not boost Target Painters, Tracking Disruptors and(again) ECM so that people don't complain everyone loads damps?
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.05 15:24:00 -
[20]
I would like rsd to be like ecm, it jams based onthe amount of points on the module, versus the amount of points on the ship. So if your damp has 10 points, and the ship has 100points, you are only damping at 10% effectiveness. But if the enemy ship has only 20 points then you will damp at 50% effectiveness.
A bigger eve Annndd..Player Factions |
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.05 16:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 05/09/2007 16:40:44
Originally by: Magazaki Instead of nerfing RSD's...
Why not boost Target Painters, Tracking Disruptors and(again) ECM so that people don't complain everyone loads damps?
Because: 1. ECM got nerfed not so long ago. Reason?: 2. every pilot and his grandmother had multispec on his ship. EVERY. Not those with 4+ midslot ships - even absolutions and zealots would JAM you. Hell i used ECM on vengeance and malediction.
EDIT: and you can be sure that if CCP overdoes it with Damps next FOTM EWar will be TDs + speed tank to evade missiles.
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Zikka
The Establishment
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Posted - 2007.09.06 11:48:00 -
[22]
Each sensor booster fitted should make you immune to one damp, in addition to its usual bonus.
i.e.:
no sensor boosters, damps work as normal one sensor booster, you get extra range/lock time and additionally the first damp on you is ignored two sensor boosters, even more range/lock time and two damps ignored etc.
Sensor amps could have the same effect - either 1 per amp or maybe needing 2 amps to counter (I favor having 1 amp counter 1 damp too).
This way people can actually use sensor boosters as an effective counter to damps. At the moment there is no counter as 3 damps>6 boosters (I tested that once).
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.09.06 18:01:00 -
[23]
an option is also to cap a min range and decrease a bit the debuff
let's say min range is 30% of base one... i have a ship with target range of 100km... you can put 426 damps on me but i will not go lower than 30km target range
i put on sensor boosters that gives me 200km... then i can't go under 60km
(same for scan resolution)
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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tiki bmp
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.07 10:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: tiki bmp on 07/09/2007 10:57:38
Originally by: Zikka
This way people can actually use sensor boosters as an effective counter to damps. At the moment there is no counter as 3 damps>6 boosters (I tested that once).
good example :P
my example with the carrier isnt ment to be taken as solo ship but as example for the damp superiority. a carrier in group is f*cked just the same way if getting damped. if u can damp a carrier with 1 arazu then u can do the same to every other ship. i just found it most anoying with the carrier that the 1 arazu cancels out a hole carrier.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.09.07 13:37:00 -
[25]
Damps are not to effective unless you train 1 month for them or unless you have them on a T2 ship . I see no reason for them to be nerfed.
Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
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Halock
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Posted - 2007.09.07 18:26:00 -
[26]
Just make sensor boosters an effective counter to rsd's, thats all that needs to be done imo.
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Takarina
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Posted - 2007.09.07 23:24:00 -
[27]
I think damps are perfect as they are. All I see in this thread are people complaining because they can't kill everything with the ship they usually fly. Well too bad.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.09.10 16:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zikka Each sensor booster fitted should make you immune to one damp, in addition to its usual bonus.
No, that would be overpowered. A ship with just two boosters would be impossible to damp to any degree, even with 5 damps.
Originally by: Zikka This way people can actually use sensor boosters as an effective counter to damps. At the moment there is no counter as 3 damps>6 boosters (I tested that once).
As I said before, the problem is with the way the stacking penalty is applied. 3 boosters should counter 3 damps, but instead the 3 damps nerf your range to nothing first, then the stacking penalty makes the 3 boosters ( or more ) useless.
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Uncle Samm
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Posted - 2007.10.15 02:50:00 -
[29]
There are several reasons why damps are still balanced next to ecm. Damps seem strong b/c they work 100% of the time. However, what they do is quite different from ecm. A damp is useless in a close range fight, if you are in a blastership and fighting at close range as most small gang pvp fights occur you aren't really concerned if a guy with damps comes in b/c he can't rduce your lock range far enough. Most bs can only be brought down to about 20k with damps. ECM on the otherhand we have to remember work at all ranges, that's why everyone gets worried when a scorp or blackbird warps in. Those ships can screw you over at any range. Also, think about the counter mods for damps and ecm. The eccm is only for anti-ecm and doesn't help in any other way. While the sensor booster is useful to a guy even if he isn't getting damped b/c of the increased lock range and decreased lock time. So it hurts less to fit anti-damp then anti-ecm. Some people also think that ewar is too strong over all. They complain b/c an ewar ship can shut down more then one other ships. This argument is stupid since if an ewar ship can only jamm one ship then what was the point? You might as well fly another gank ship. CCP please ease up on your ewar nerfing spree and don't turn this game into a big gank ship fest.
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.15 06:18:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 15/10/2007 06:19:43 Sensor boosters are not a counter to damps, not when you're being hit with 3-4 damps. Even if you're in a 175km locking rook, damps will put your nose in the dirty.
Increase the cap usage on Damps to ECM levels and reduce the strenth to 15/15, Give Celestis/Arazu/Lachesis bonus to cap reduction to present Damp Cap level and Strength bonus taking damps up to 45-60% strength where they are presently (with signal suppression 4 and gallente cruiser 4 they are about 65% or so). Strength bonus could be 80% greater str per level so with Gallente Cruiser 4 you have a 320% strength, 5 gives you 400%. Maulus would have to be respec'd to make effective use of them as well, but perhaps slightly better cap usage reduction that the celestis, Lach/Arazu.
I will miss my ships all haveing -58% strength Dampers, but they really do need nerfing -they're just like the ECM Multi II's were and have rightfully earned the nerfing. -some chance of failure would be good.
-Please do the same for Tracking Disruptors or they will be the newest flavor of the month. People will run from missile users and tracking disrupt the hell out of turret ships so they can't do anything at except cry in the corner, sacrificing kittens to the dark gods to make ccp balance them like they should have when they were doing the damp nerf.
**EWAR SHIPS need to be the ships fitting ewar! Even Painters are crap on non-painter ships, but still marginally effective. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
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