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Triage is atm unpractical

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Lungorthin Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:13:00 - [1] I made some field tests with Triage on an Archon I fitted essentially all cap modules and cap rigs 1 armor rep for own repairing and 1 cpuII for it would not fit the 3 Capital Remote Shield Transfers otherwise. So essentially all cap modules everywhere else. Remote Armor/Shield/Hull Rep and Energy Transfer cycle times are HALVED, ok that is good, BUT the cap usage is not. So effectively you are using TWICE the cap in the same amount of time. In my field tests this meant that for example I could not sustain 3 capital shield transfers for long (around 4 min) before running completely dry. (So no good for POS or Station reps) Now imagine trying to micro manage cap usage in a big (read laggy) encounter. Next thing you know you are dry of cap and dead dead. Let me rephrase that: dead. *** In my oppinion among other things the Triage Module needs to also at the very least HALVE the cap usage of capital repair modules. And what is that stupidity of not being able to use drones? How are you dead fish in the water supposed to defend yourself? * I dont know what all changes will make Triage viable, but at the moment it is plain SUICIDE to use it in a hostile environment. And most unpractical to use in even a non-hostile environment. Triage comes pre-nerfed as it is now ** Triage atm = Please-Kill-Me-I-Am-Defenceless and will-run-out-of-cap-in-no-time Button
WildSide Toys R Us M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:43:00 - [2] agreed. _______________________________ Vids produced by me
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:03:00 - [3] yea it is pretty useless. giving you the ability to launch drones was removed from the device I THINK because you were meant to become support for your fleet, and your fleet is what defends you. But Triage is such a skill intensive module that not many people use it anyway. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
Dan Grobag Caldari Oyster Colors	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:04:00 - [4] If I remember right, you get twice the amount for the same consuption, and also at a halved cycle time. In final, it mean one module will consume like two non triaged module yes, but while doing so, it will also deliver four time what a single non triaged module would do. If you do a bit of math, that will just mean the cap usage is halved for the same rep ammount. The true drawback is that you will be a siting duck for 10 minutes.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Laboratus on 04/09/2007 20:22:21 Did you have cap injectors fitted? How many? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:46:00 - [6] Triage mode is fine, it's just stupid to use it with 3 cap remote reppers. It gives both an awesome tank to carriers (sustainable average ~9k dps on a damn Nidhoggur) and extremely good remote repping. You can do stupid things like trying to run 3 shield transfers forever, but then you have to forget about tanking (a Nidhoggur can sustain it with all CPR2/CR2 in meds/lows). We're talking 4500 shield HP/s transferred here, so it has to come at a price. isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:00:00 - [7] Triage needs the drone penalty removed and given a 500% bonus to rep module range - the current 45km (with carrier lvl 4) is pathetic.
Chee Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:06:00 - [8] like the OP said, its a nice mod but its just not sustainable nor very smart to use on the frontline atm Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
Kodiak31415 An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:42:00 - [9] Another module/service that looked good on paper but was nerfed to uslessness before it ever was released. As it stands this module looks like a great way to loose a carrier if used in combat. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot
DirtyHarry Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:51:00 - [10] ATM its only use is for suicide supercap saving, cant be jammed + repair a ton of hp with 2-3 remote reps. RKK INNIT - Havo / DH
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.09.05 00:26:00 - [11] like most new things, it was introduced in a fluffy form (as new things ought to be) As more people train it, and we can see it effectiveness (or lack thereof) on the battle field, it will get looked at, just like regular logistic ships, which got boosted to the point of generating cap out of nowhere if you got 2 of em. only problem is, its gonna take like 2 years course, Ill finally have all the skills ready to go by then. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Lungorthin Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.05 06:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Dan Grobag If you do a bit of math, that will just mean the cap usage is halved for the same rep ammount. The true drawback is that you will be a siting duck for 10 minutes. Yes you are 100% correct, but as I said, try to micro manage cap in a encounter with a little bit of lag and you loose all control over your cap. I admit I skilled Triage not so much for front line encounter but for POS and Station repairing. And even for that it is no good. Shield repairing usually takes forever. I can sustain for example 3 Capital Shield Reps forever in a regular carrier outfit. But I am not able to sustain any decent output while in Triage. Add to this the enhanced danger of running low on cap, not being able to move for 10 minutes (as you also correctly pointed out) and not being able to field any drones and you are a big "please kill me" neon sign.
Lungorthin Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.05 06:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Laboratus Edited by: Laboratus on 04/09/2007 20:22:21 Did you have cap injectors fitted? How many? For this particular test I used no cap injectors, I used Mid slot cap rechagers T2 (4 pieces) and Low slot cap power relays T2 (5 pieces) also 3x cap rigs So a total of 12 cap enhancing modules. Additionally 1 low slot armor rep and 1 cpu II (to fit the 3 cap shield transfers)
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.09.05 06:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Lungorthin Originally by: Dan Grobag If you do a bit of math, that will just mean the cap usage is halved for the same rep ammount. The true drawback is that you will be a siting duck for 10 minutes. Yes you are 100% correct, but as I said, try to micro manage cap in a encounter with a little bit of lag and you loose all control over your cap. I admit I skilled Triage not so much for front line encounter but for POS and Station repairing. And even for that it is no good. Shield repairing usually takes forever. I can sustain for example 3 Capital Shield Reps forever in a regular carrier outfit. But I am not able to sustain any decent output while in Triage. Add to this the enhanced danger of running low on cap, not being able to move for 10 minutes (as you also correctly pointed out) and not being able to field any drones and you are a big "please kill me" neon sign. Sigh... You can sustain 3 reppers without triage? So what? One repper in triage will give out twice the amount of one shiel transfer at half the cycle time. This means you would effectively have to be running 4 sustained shield transfers in non triage mode to match one transfer in triage. So what exactly makes triage bad? I suppose u can sustain 1-2 modules in triage and therefore rep at an awesome speed compared to not being in triage. It's not the amount of modules you can sustain in triage.. is the amount of hp you can repair per sec that makes it powerfull. A few carriers in triage can save a third one being shot my dreads. ---------------------------------------
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.05 06:56:00 - [15] Originally by: Lungorthin For this particular test I used no cap injectors, I used Mid slot cap rechagers T2 (4 pieces) and Low slot cap power relays T2 (5 pieces) also 3x cap rigs So a total of 12 cap enhancing modules. Additionally 1 low slot armor rep and 1 cpu II (to fit the 3 cap shield transfers) Try with cap injectors. You can carry quite a few booster 800s in a carrier, so running out of them is not really a problem... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Clansworth Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Lungorthin Yes you are 100% correct, but as I said, try to micro manage cap in a encounter with a little bit of lag and you loose all control over your cap. I admit I skilled Triage not so much for front line encounter but for POS and Station repairing. And even for that it is no good. Shield repairing usually takes forever. I can sustain for example 3 Capital Shield Reps forever in a regular carrier outfit. But I am not able to sustain any decent output while in Triage. Add to this the enhanced danger of running low on cap, not being able to move for 10 minutes (as you also correctly pointed out) and not being able to field any drones and you are a big "please kill me" neon sign. Even though you cannot sustain 3 capital reps, triage mode is still extremely useful. The boost to transfer amount, along with the halving of duration, means that even if you could only sustain 1 capital rep, you would be reping more than your 3 non-triaged reps. (effectively the same hp as 4 non-triaged reps) You should be able to sustain 2 capital reps in triage mode, while still keeping some tank, and have the transfer equivalent of 8 non-triaged capital reps. This significantly reduces time spent recharging the POS/Station. Prospector Class
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:01:00 - [17] If you have to use a cpu II to fit 3, isn't that telling you it is perhaps only meant to run 2 at a time? - I'm a nice guy!! MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!!
Darwinia Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:10:00 - [18] Yes, but if you can only repair 1 target at a time without running out of cap (remember, you have to be able to repair yourself as well), on a CAPITAL ship that gives up all its offense to go into triage mode, whats the point... CCP pre nerfed this thing a bit too much I think. ------------------------ I don't believe in sigs.
Lungorthin Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Lungorthin on 05/09/2007 07:25:59 deleted ... :)
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Darwinia Yes, but if you can only repair 1 target at a time without running out of cap (remember, you have to be able to repair yourself as well), on a CAPITAL ship that gives up all its offense to go into triage mode, whats the point... CCP pre nerfed this thing a bit too much I think. The point is to save that friendly capital under fire. ---------------------------------------
Tharsgaard Caldari Fukd up Beyond all Reckognition	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Tharsgaard on 05/09/2007 07:43:22 Originally by: Lungorthin Edited by: Lungorthin on 05/09/2007 07:25:59 deleted ... :) Too late, i saw it I wont tell if you contract me yer carrier. ---------------
Niffetin Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:44:00 - [22] Damn the op is an idiot
Marcus Quo Gallente Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Niffetin Damn the op is an idiot A statement calling someone an idiot without any supporting evidence! You sir have convinced me. I have to agree with the OP, the problem is that this mod is clearly designed for large fleet battles. But anyone who has actually BEEN in a fleet battle instead of just reading about them knows how laggy they are. You need to have a fleet setup that will run all modules forever, just in case the lag hits. You can't afford to micromanage stuff. So yes, triage will help you run a single rep like a dual rep tank, or you could just say screw the triage, fit a dual rep tank and use your fighters, which are ALSO insanely useful in a laggy fleet battle.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.05 08:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Juha85 The point is to save that friendly capital under fire. I thought you can't use assistance modules on ships with siege/triad module on. That kinda makes the module redundant for most things except repping titans and poses (BS pop faster than the module cycles)... Originally by: Tharsgaard Edited by: Tharsgaard on 05/09/2007 07:43:22 Originally by: Lungorthin Edited by: Lungorthin on 05/09/2007 07:25:59 deleted ... :) Too late, i saw it I wont tell if you contract me yer carrier. 5M isk for that info :D ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Tharsgaard Caldari Fukd up Beyond all Reckognition	Posted - 2007.09.05 08:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Tharsgaard Edited by: Tharsgaard on 05/09/2007 07:43:22 Originally by: Lungorthin Edited by: Lungorthin on 05/09/2007 07:25:59 deleted ... :) Too late, i saw it I wont tell if you contract me yer carrier. 5M isk for that info :D It was BoB's battle plans for the next 6 month's. ---------------
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2007.09.05 08:16:00 - [26] I might be wrong, but from what I heard the Triage module is broken and dont deliver ECM immunity, so you can still be jammed/damped... Can someone please clarify this? Regards /Doxs After 9 months of being a "!" face, I now discover that Im butt ugly instead...
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.05 08:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Doxs Roxs I might be wrong, but from what I heard the Triage module is broken and dont deliver ECM immunity, so you can still be jammed/damped... Can someone please clarify this? Regards /Doxs Last time i checked it was broken, tho it could get fixed by now. --- Battlecarriers !
Clansworth Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 08:59:00 - [28] For the record, not sure what the OP tried fitting, but as far as a pure POS shield repping device, I was able to configure an Archon with: 3 Capital Shield Transfer I 1 Triage Module I 4 Cap Recharger II's 7 Cap Power Relay II's 2 Cap Control Circuit II's 1 Cap Control Circuit I and it all fits, and can permarun all 3 shield xfer's. Keeping in mind this is simply for quickly repping a POS's shields following siege or whenever the place is already safe, but you talk about serious Shield Xfer amount! 3600 hp/sec. That can solo recharge a Large Caldari Tower from 0 shield in under 4 hours... :-) Sure, it'd need support for cover, but if getting them recharged quickly is your goal, nothing will be faster. Considering a Basilisk with a full rack of Large Shield Transfer II's, and maxed skills will transfer 512 hp/sec. Prospector Class
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.05 10:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Clansworth For the record, not sure what the OP tried fitting, but as far as a pure POS shield repping device, I was able to configure an Archon with: 3 Capital Shield Transfer I 1 Triage Module I 4 Cap Recharger II's 7 Cap Power Relay II's 2 Cap Control Circuit II's 1 Cap Control Circuit I and it all fits, and can permarun all 3 shield xfer's. Keeping in mind this is simply for quickly repping a POS's shields following siege or whenever the place is already safe, but you talk about serious Shield Xfer amount! 3600 hp/sec. That can solo recharge a Large Caldari Tower from 0 shield in under 4 hours... :-) Sure, it'd need support for cover, but if getting them recharged quickly is your goal, nothing will be faster. Considering a Basilisk with a full rack of Large Shield Transfer II's, and maxed skills will transfer 512 hp/sec. No one disagree with that, but triage was supposed to get carriers into frontline, and it fail at this point pretty much. --- Battlecarriers !
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.09.05 10:56:00 - [30] Edited by: Juha85 on 05/09/2007 10:57:19 Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Juha85 The point is to save that friendly capital under fire. I thought you can't use assistance modules on ships with siege/triad module on. That kinda makes the module redundant for most things except repping titans and poses (BS pop faster than the module cycles)... Originally by: Tharsgaard Edited by: Tharsgaard on 05/09/2007 07:43:22 Originally by: Lungorthin Edited by: Lungorthin on 05/09/2007 07:25:59 deleted ... :) You forgot about the carriers you have there fighting? ---------------------------------------

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