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What if... we removed aggression?

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Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:03:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2007 10:03:28 What if we had the technology to completely remove aggression from all people? And replace it with a feeling of never wanting to kill another human being. That feeling would be so strong that we would rather die than kill another human being. Should we do it? Discuss. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Epoch	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:05:00 - [2] did you watch "A Clockwork Orange" tonight?
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:05:00 - [3] No. Say it along with me now: Black market soldiers.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:08:00 - [4] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2007 10:09:06 Originally by: Epoch did you watch "A Clockwork Orange" tonight? Actually Ive just caught a glimpse of that movie. It seemed crazy, so I never watched more than 20 minutes or so, and I dont remember what it was about. Originally by: Amarria Black No. Say it along with me now: Black market soldiers. Expand on this, I dont know what you mean. So I dont get the motivation for the 'No'. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Tarquin Tarquinius Gallente Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:09:00 - [5] I think taking away aggression would also take away any motivation we had to do anyting. It would give ennui a whole new meaning. ...and another thing.....MIRANDA ------ wait...what?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius I think taking away aggression would also take away any motivation we had to do anyting. It would give ennui a whole new meaning. ...and another thing.....MIRANDA What kind of motivation is fueled by aggression? Personally, I have plenty of motivation to explore all kind of things, and there is no aggression involved at all. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:16:00 - [7] tbh if we remove aggression, we wouldn't be humans anymore. yes I have a very dark view of the human race. --- truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players" Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
Kye Kenshin Martial. Retribution.	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:23:00 - [8] Reminds me of the Film Equilibirum where they suppress all emotion. -------------------------------------- Join Martial\|Beagle Corp Museum
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim McGregor Expand on this, I dont know what you mean. So I dont get the motivation for the 'No'. Take a few hundred women, find a nice third world country to hide them in, chain them up, and induce pregnancy. They churn out babies every nine months, which you then never modify. You train them in all things hurt and kill, and when they're grown, you sell them to the highest bidder. Private armies, thugs, assassins, you name it. If it's a human job that makes money by harming others, you've just cornered the market. If governments don't do it, criminal cartels will. Hell, you could possibly include religions, survivalists, and anarchists to the list. ....aaaand I think you just gave me the plot for a book. Thx.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Kye Kenshin Reminds me of the Film Equilibirum where they suppress all emotion. Well, if all you feel is anger, you need some serious help. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Jim McGregor Expand on this, I dont know what you mean. So I dont get the motivation for the 'No'. Take a few hundred women, find a nice third world country to hide them in, chain them up, and induce pregnancy. They churn out babies every nine months, which you then never modify. You train them in all things hurt and kill, and when they're grown, you sell them to the highest bidder. Private armies, thugs, assassins, you name it. If it's a human job that makes money by harming others, you've just cornered the market. If governments don't do it, criminal cartels will. Hell, you could possibly include religions, survivalists, and anarchists to the list. ....aaaand I think you just gave me the plot for a book. Thx. Ok, but whats the connection between that and removing aggression in ALL people? It seems to me that if we remove aggression in all people, nobody would want to do something like that. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor Ok, but whats the connection between that and removing aggression in ALL people? It seems to me that if we remove aggression in all people, nobody would want to do something like that. Because you simply eliminated the ability to harm another human, not the ambition to use any tool in your arsenal to get ahead. Eliminate that, and you've effectively lobotomized the human race.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Jim McGregor Ok, but whats the connection between that and removing aggression in ALL people? It seems to me that if we remove aggression in all people, nobody would want to do something like that. Because you simply eliminated the ability to harm another human, not the ambition to use any tool in your arsenal to get ahead. Eliminate that, and you've effectively lobotomized the human race. No, ive eliminated the wish to harm another human being, which would also mean nobody would want to chain people up and create armies against their will. At least thats what I meant. I didnt mean just "kill", I meant cause any form of harm. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Kye Kenshin Reminds me of the Film Equilibirum where they suppress all emotion. Yeah. Great movie. One must realize one thing tho. The human being is a balance between good and bad. Good emotions like love and happiness must be counterbalanced by hate and sadness. The human being needs both sides of the coin, or else it would be broken. Same goes to the pacifist/aggression duality: a true pacifist cannot survive in this world, and a true warmonger gets destroyed by his ways sooner or later. So you might say that aggressiveness is as much needed as pacifism, or else it wouldn't be a balanced human. --- truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players" Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Jim McGregor No, ive eliminated the wish to harm another human being, which would also mean nobody would want to chain people up and create armies against their will. At least thats what I meant. I didnt mean just "kill", I meant cause any form of harm. Then you would think of it only in terms of what you would gain, not the expense to others. Really, to understand the end result of what you're asking for, you need to read the Legacy of the Aldenata series by John Ringo. There's a race, the Darhel, who literally go comatose if they are force to commit violence upon a living being. This doesn't stop them from using humans to commit violence. They just don't think about it. One man's "saving thousands from certain death" is another man's "kill everything in your path", and all that.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Amarria Black Really, to understand the end result of what you're asking for, you need to read the Legacy of the Aldenata series by John Ringo. There's a race, the Darhel, who literally go comatose if they are force to commit violence upon a living being. This doesn't stop them from using humans to commit violence. They just don't think about it. One man's "saving thousands from certain death" is another man's "kill everything in your path", and all that. I dont know... I dont think a human that would rather die than cause harm would be able to do that. It would be impossible to not think about it, even if they tell someone else to cause harm (there wouldnt even be anyone else, except for ... animals.. :)). Ill check out that author though, it might help me understand it better. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Kye Kenshin Martial. Retribution.	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Kye Kenshin Reminds me of the Film Equilibirum where they suppress all emotion. Well, if all you feel is anger, you need some serious help. Lol no I'm very calm person, just the idea of removing aggression reminded me of that film. They use drugs to artificially remove emotions thus no more murder or wars etc but also no art, music or literature is allowed as this brings out emotions in people and the punishment for this is death. What I'm trying to get at is aggression is part of being human but so is learning and trying to better ourselves, if you simply just remove aggression we wouldn't of learned anything. But eventually the human race will learn to let go of such emotions and primitive instincts and we will be better species for it. -------------------------------------- Join Martial\|Beagle Corp Museum
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 10:48:00 - [18] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2007 10:56:20 Originally by: Kye Kenshin if you simply just remove aggression we wouldn't of learned anything. But eventually the human race will learn to let go of such emotions and primitive instincts and we will be better species for it. This is the core of what I dont understand. What do we learn from aggression? Why cant we be motivated for other reasons than aggression? And since you think we will learn this naturally at some point, why not speed up the process before we kill another billion people? :) Ill read the author mentioned though, maybe that will make me understand what you guys mean. Originally by: Grimpak Good emotions like love and happiness must be counterbalanced by hate and sadness. The human being needs both sides of the coin, or else it would be broken. Broken in what way? We tend to look up to people who spread love and happiness and tend to dislike people who spread hate and unhappiness, right? --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Steve Holt D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:00:00 - [19] The world needs war to progress. At a time of war invention is key to winning, your constantly working on things to counter your enemy, some of our greatest inventions have come around cause of war. Without aggression there is no war.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:03:00 - [20] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2007 11:03:43 Originally by: Steve Holt The world needs war to progress. At a time of war invention is key to winning, your constantly working on things to counter your enemy, some of our greatest inventions have come around cause of war. Without aggression there is no war. Thats because our strongest motivation is to survive against someone who attacks us. What if there was no attacks? Wouldnt our motivation instead be on trying to improve life as much as possible for everybody on the planet, because it would make us feel good? Wouldnt the research that today creates military hardware go into creating cities on the moon or whatever people wanted? Its only a question of motivation to me. Today you may get motivated by getting rich. Tomorrow you may get motivated by helping to improve the society. Motivation is the key to whatever we do, right? --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Yoshimako	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:03:00 - [21] Has someone injected you with flowers or something? I ***** hate hippies. You cant see for all the roses and trees. Sure its a nice idea if your living in fluffy carebear land but in the real world? Youll just get **** by something.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Yoshimako Has someone injected you with flowers or something? Has someone injected you with hate? --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Yoshimako	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:10:00 - [23] Didnt need to life can just shape you this way.
Bad Borris Caldari Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:10:00 - [24] Agression is not a negative emotion, it has many uses. It can govern protective instincts as well as be a motivational spur to act for the greater good. We need it to help us out of survival situations too. Hate is a more negative emotion. Get rid of that and you might get somewhere. In fact we might say that removing the reasons which people hate each other would improve the world more than removing aggression. Besides most sports would be **** without aggression. As for the 'technology' to remove aggression, there are already many tranquilisers and prescription drugs for mental illnesses that have that as a side effect. Unfortunately when you suppress certain thoughts a person has (paranoia etc) the drug also effects motivation and agression which makes the patient lethargic. If we were all under the influence of emotion suppression drugs, it would likely make us all unproductive couch potatos that cannot be bothered to do anything.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:11:00 - [25] Yep, you can cut that bit out of my brain if you like. I did Aikido for many years. It was interesting how directing anothers aggression was an incredibly powerful form of defence. The more violence the opponent used, the greater the ability to use that energy to imobilize/pacify them. My main reason for not believing in evolution, is our propensity for aggression. You can argue it fuels the survival of the fittest, however i'd hazard a guess our spiritual/intellectual capacity is hindered by such a veil.
Wild Rho Amarr Endgame.	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:11:00 - [26] We'd be in deep cacky as the world population became over crowded and we'd be too polite to resort to cannibalism like any normal human would. What?
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:14:00 - [27] Edited by: Lord Zoran on 08/09/2007 11:13:52 if we didnt have aggression then we wouldnt get agry when things didnt work so we wouldnt hit them with a hammer and make them work --------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!!
Devoras2 Amarr KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:14:00 - [28] To much Star Trek and the utopia ideal of the Federation. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Cemetary Massifley Multiplyer On-lain Geyhnesz	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2007 11:03:43 Originally by: Steve Holt The world needs war to progress. At a time of war invention is key to winning, your constantly working on things to counter your enemy, some of our greatest inventions have come around cause of war. Without aggression there is no war. Thats because our strongest motivation is to survive against someone who attacks us. What if there was no attacks? Wouldnt our motivation instead be on trying to improve life as much as possible for everybody on the planet, because it would make us feel good? Wouldnt the research that today creates military hardware go into creating cities on the moon or whatever people wanted? Its only a question of motivation to me. Today you may get motivated by getting rich. Tomorrow you may get motivated by helping to improve the society. Motivation is the key to whatever we do, right? You big hippie :p Nobody would bother hanging around in labs or doing year long surveys if there was no will to compete with other scientists of the same nation, let alone the competition from foreign powers. Competition is a form of aggression, you want to succeed to show that YOU are the man, not them. Every man and his dog would be curled up under a tree singing folk songs and smoking pot.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:28:00 - [30] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2007 11:36:55 Originally by: Cemetary You big hippie :p Nobody would bother hanging around in labs or doing year long surveys if there was no will to compete with other scientists of the same nation, let alone the competition from foreign powers. Competition is a form of aggression, you want to succeed to show that YOU are the man, not them. Every man and his dog would be curled up under a tree singing folk songs and smoking pot. Competition exists in tons of other areas than the military. Why couldnt we compete in building the fastest car, building the largest TV or whatever. In fact, we do. The competition would still be there, no matter if we build machines to kill people or help people. Does competition really comes from aggression, or does it come from the interest in exploring the unknown and proving yourself? --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)

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