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Hannibalx 7	Posted - 2012.01.18 20:22:00 - [31] - Quote The whole idea is stupid. AFK cloakers are only a danger to afk players i.e. bots. I suppose weak minded null bears might find the presence of an afk cloaker demoralizing, but so what? The current mechanics are not broken. Leave it alone already.
tikktokk tokkzikk Glorious Revolution The 99 Percent 9	Posted - 2012.01.18 20:29:00 - [32] - Quote off topic: "Yet another idea floated up, the option of buying things from the EVE Store with PLEX. While not a trivial thing to accomplish, this idea was well received by CCP." I posted a suggestion to link aurum to the eve store (real life items) on the old forum. Sadly, people are stupid and said "lolol u st0pid ccp no give out fr33 st0f". Atleast CSM/CCP are smart enough to understand how that would work. So we still have a chance for a MT free EVE, YAY!
arcca jeth Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance 58	Posted - 2012.01.18 20:38:00 - [33] - Quote well guess we can say that all power bocs with SOV will support this. I actually saw an item a few years back (out of game) that was like a Interdiction bubble but was designed to decloak ships within a certain radius. CCP should hold off on this change until they have a clear plan on what they want to do with low/null intel/local. AFK cloakers are great for intel and everyone has a right to said intel. Best thing about it, is everyone does with this system as it is now. What one corp can do, another can do to them (and probably does). Covert ops are used for intel and have no other function other than gathering information. My issue is if CCP does implement a ship or module that can do this, you will then have people complaining about how it is NOT EFFECTIVE ENOUGH and WHHAAA WHAAA its too time consuming WHAA WHAA then CCP will take those tears and make it (over time) easier and easier to find these ships, doing away completely with a ROLE that was being used as intended, intel. someone in the feedback thread compared it to SWG/NGE and as that is an extreme comparison, that is the result when you start talking about DOING AWAY WITH ROLES in a RPG!!
arcca jeth Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance 58	Posted - 2012.01.18 20:40:00 - [34] - Quote Hannibalx wrote: The whole idea is stupid. AFK cloakers are only a danger to afk players i.e. bots. I suppose weak minded null bears might find the presence of an afk cloaker demoralizing, but so what? The current mechanics are not broken. Leave it alone already. the AFK cloakers are there to remind people who think they are safe in blue space are in fact, not safe and should keep on their toes.
Klandi Consortium of stella Technologies 42	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:21:00 - [35] - Quote Hannibalx wrote: The whole idea is stupid. AFK cloakers are only a danger to afk players i.e. bots. So ...an AFK (person away from keyboard) in a cloaked ship is only dangerous to a piece of software automating a series of tasks in Eve ... Do you understand how stupid that statement is as I believe bots don't care or are not programmed to give a damn if they are being observed ? Next, caller we will be answering the question of a falling tree making a sound if no-one is there to hear it. The only thing I believe we should have in Eve is a counter to a threat. Perceived or real. Something that can be used to nullify it. The AFK cloaker is one area that we do not have this and I would ask that a counter be developed. Whether that is a timer that disables the cloak after a long period of inactivity or a cloak needing a fuel - I would like to see a counter made I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
tikktokk tokkzikk Glorious Revolution The 99 Percent 9	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:36:00 - [36] - Quote Klandi wrote: Hannibalx wrote: The whole idea is stupid. AFK cloakers are only a danger to afk players i.e. bots. So ...an AFK (person away from keyboard) in a cloaked ship is only dangerous to a piece of software automating a series of tasks in Eve ... Do you understand how stupid that statement is as I believe bots don't care or are not programmed to give a damn if they are being observed ? Next, caller we will be answering the question of a falling tree making a sound if no-one is there to hear it. The only thing I believe we should have in Eve is a counter to a threat. Perceived or real. Something that can be used to nullify it. The AFK cloaker is one area that we do not have this and I would ask that a counter be developed. Whether that is a timer that disables the cloak after a long period of inactivity or a cloak needing a fuel - I would like to see a counter made Most bots are programed to log off if naut or red enters local. Thus, a 23.5/7 AFK cloaker blocks a system for bots.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 226	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:36:00 - [37] - Quote arcca jeth wrote: Hannibalx wrote: The whole idea is stupid. AFK cloakers are only a danger to afk players i.e. bots. I suppose weak minded null bears might find the presence of an afk cloaker demoralizing, but so what? The current mechanics are not broken. Leave it alone already. the AFK cloakers are there to remind people who think they are safe in blue space are in fact, not safe and should keep on their toes. The cloak hunter is there to remind people who think they are safe with their cloak modules on are in fact, not safe and should keep on their toes.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 226	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:37:00 - [38] - Quote tikktokk tokkzikk wrote: Most bots are programed to log off if naut or red enters local. or, of course, cloak in a safe
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 487	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:42:00 - [39] - Quote Ships (Destroyers) that are able to detect invisible predators lurking in the deep? Sounds like the happy time is nearing its end. risk in eve, who would have thought it! - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 201	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:45:00 - [40] - Quote I dont know how I feel about this. On one hand, EVE doesnt need to be any safer than what it already is and this will certainly make Null sec safer. One the other hand, it take takes no skill what so ever to warp to a safe spot in enemy territory, set cloak then be afk as you spend the next 8 hours at work or running errands and call it Psychological Warfare.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 521	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:51:00 - [41] - Quote if you are a afk cloaker, cloak in a cheap frig. problem solved. cool feature IMO, sounds like a new role for the destroyer hull to me ;) a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked
MadMuppet Kerguelen Station 85	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:59:00 - [42] - Quote Hunting submarines: TLDR: IGÇÖm going to talk about real world mechanics because I am bored and waiting for my kidGÇÖs after school activity to end. What I am working up to is a way to actively hunt a cloaked ship, but personally I kind of like AFK cloaking, it keeps people paranoid. Yes I know features and ideas is that way ---> There are several major method and tactics for hunting submarines, some of which could be employed in some fashion in Eve. However, given the speed at which these ships can move it would be debatable just how useful they might be. Anyhow, a couple ideas. Sound A submarine needs to be able to limit the sounds it releases in to the environment. Such releases of sound can be detected by others. These sounds can be compared to a database of known sounds to gradually track and identify the target. In the vacuum of space this would not apply, but what could apply would be the release of heat or other radiation from the ship that can only be mitigated via the cloak. A follow up to the computer tracking sounds from a submarine is a system that tracks all sounds in the water but is able to detect blockages of those sounds. You are not looking for the sounds themselves, but for where the sounds are being blocked by submarineGÇÖs hull being in the way. You are looking for a sound shadow. In Eve this type of system could also work if a still ship were to monitor the background radiation of the area and look for anomalies (like the Predator or the cloaked ships from Star Trek). Tracking submarine sounds is done by a collection of sensitive microphones. A similar system in Eve could be introduced as background radiation monitors. A fixed system could be part of a SOV infrastructure(like the SOSUS line). Mobile background probes could be deployed by scanners, but would need to be fixed in place and have a warm up time (see sonobuoy) and would be disposable. Ships use fixed and towed microphones that improve their ability to detect subs; a similar system for an warship flying slowly in a straight line might be an option in Eve. In Eve, using the GÇÿsoundsGÇÖ of background radiation could introduce a background noise problem for the hunting fleet. If there are a lot of active moving ships in the system (NPC or Pod Pilot) the results from the probes would be much poorer with enough ship movement in the system effectively blinding the hunters. This would make the hunting of cloaked ships a smaller scale event, ie reduce blobs. Things like asteroids (and hiding near them) would benefit the cloaker (and encourage him to be in those areas). Once a ship is localized to an area, like scanning youGÇÖll eventually get a 100% hit to the grid, you will be able to use something between a radar and a smart bomb (active sonar) to pin down the ship. Yes, they can just fly away, but the radiation stamp left behind in the tracking would reduce further hit delays to grid (faster follow up acquisition). There would always be a chance of the cloaker escaping, but not without player interaction. Also looking for a background blur might be entertaining as well, but I can see that being a hack people use (replacing the file in their system so it show up as a yellow dot or something) Also a GÇÿpingGÇÖ from and active tracker against a cloaked would fire an aggression timer, so they canGÇÖt run away until it wears off. No logoffskis. It would also apply a 30 second cool down so they canGÇÖt just jump out of system. Magnetic fields Another way to track a submarine is by its magnetic field. These systems are called magnetic anomaly detectors (MADs) and they can sense changes in the local magnetic field by things like submarines. In eve this would be a type of sensor to help pin down a cloaker by people running a search pattern once they are on the grid. Again, any nearby ship would alert the sensor, so large fleets would be an issue. I would add interference from asteroids as well (making asteroid fields a potential battleground?) TLDR part 2 Maybe this is all too complex, but if you want to hunt cloakers like submarines, might as well find real world examples, and the small gang aspect of the hunt might be interesting for some of the anti-blob players. Yes, I only have a Vigil, I've had a bad bit of luck Ok?
met worst Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 64	Posted - 2012.01.18 22:02:00 - [43] - Quote Why should an AFK cloaker be worried about being scanned down? He's AFK ffs.
tikktokk tokkzikk Glorious Revolution The 99 Percent 9	Posted - 2012.01.18 22:05:00 - [44] - Quote This thread is not about AFK cloakers by the way. Reread the first post if you think so.
met worst Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 64	Posted - 2012.01.18 22:28:00 - [45] - Quote tikktokk tokkzikk wrote: This thread is not about AFK cloakers by the way. Reread the first post if you think so. Which is EXACTLY my point. It seems than non-AFK cloakers are worried about some "radar" system that might detect them. I'll betcha my Pony to your Cookie that CCP will NOT make any detriment to active cloakies - they will simply provide a way to scan down AFK cloakies. Otherwise why bother? Cloaking and what you can do with cloaking is not the issue and NEVER has been.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders Flatline. 22	Posted - 2012.01.18 22:36:00 - [46] - Quote The most likely thing that will happen is that there will be some way to gradually find the position of an on-grid cloaky. If your safe'd up you need to be probed out, and no current probes can hit a cloaky, and I rather doubt they're going to introduce probes that can scan out cloakies. The ships that get hurt most by this are cloaky dictors trying to camp a gate tbh.
Borascus Hole Diggers 25	Posted - 2012.01.18 23:09:00 - [47] - Quote I agree with this concept in principle. One way that would limit the skillset but also allow the cloak-hunter would be by buffing the astrometrics range of skills, i.e.: Black Ops/Titan - Jump Portal Generator requires Astrometrics level 5. If pilot A has Astrometrics 5, pilot A can then inject [Cloaked Vessel Detection] which allows the cloak-hunting ship-type. Once pilot A acquires the skill to hunt cloaked ships Pilot A then has a choice: Skill to level 5 to decrease scan time to [Location in last 1sec], from [Location in last 20 seconds] if it is a role bonus. Other options involve a ship that has a role bonus of "Can fit cloak detection array" How a cloak detection array would work in a gate camp might cause problems, but if the ping to find the cloaker is [Location in last 1 second], the covert vessel usually aligns and engages ab, then cloaks. If a cloaked intel ship is moving through systems: Ship enters a system with a gate camp (nearest cloak detection ship lies within 26km sphere, and bubbles are present) cloaked ship can accelerate and cloak, meaning the tackle ships have to liaise with each other to find out where it is on grid and use normal burn towards target mechanics. This would be dependant on how long the cloak detection array takes between pings. Only other option would be [Can fit enhanced probe launcher] which allows a probe set like Core Scanner Probe to find cloaked vessels anywhere in system, which would then be subject to a further 5-10 sec scan time. This fitted to an Electronic Attack Ship would make sense, but then again its because the Keres needs a buff soo bad.
Cyprus Black Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS. 126	Posted - 2012.01.19 00:14:00 - [48] - Quote tikktokk tokkzikk wrote: "Cloak Hunters: CCP brought up the possibility of a future cloak-hunting ship or mechanic as a hypothetical; this was described as GÇÿmore like finding a submarine than pulling a blanket offGÇÖ a cloaked ship. As a submariner IRL, I can assure you that finding another sub is not an easy task. Not by any stretch of the imagination. If finding a cloaked ship is anything like finding a submerged submarine, only a small handful of players will be able to pull it off. Like my post? Made you laugh or think? Maybe even offended or nausiated you? Then give a Like. They're free and oh so easy to give.
Anya Ohaya School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.01.19 00:45:00 - [49] - Quote Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: My random crack pot guess is- a new type of fighter that can and will only engage cloaked ships in sov space that is not yours on the 1st and 15th on any month. Makes as much sense as most of the other proposals.
P42ALPHA DEAD-ON 35	Posted - 2012.01.19 00:50:00 - [50] - Quote BLA BLA BLA, I hate cloaky afk ships. Is what i gathered between the lines "All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion." Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)
met worst Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 66	Posted - 2012.01.19 01:00:00 - [51] - Quote Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: My random crack pot guess is- a new type of fighter that can and will only engage cloaked ships in sov space that is not yours on the 1st and 15th on any month. What are you. MAD!!!!!!! No ******* way!!!!!!!!!! I'll compromise by saying I'll allow it if the 1st or 15th is a Tuesday and the month has an R in it.
met worst Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 66	Posted - 2012.01.19 01:07:00 - [52] - Quote Cyprus Black wrote: tikktokk tokkzikk wrote: "Cloak Hunters: CCP brought up the possibility of a future cloak-hunting ship or mechanic as a hypothetical; this was described as GÇÿmore like finding a submarine than pulling a blanket offGÇÖ a cloaked ship. As a submariner IRL, I can assure you that finding another sub is not an easy task. Not by any stretch of the imagination. If finding a cloaked ship is anything like finding a submerged submarine, only a small handful of players will be able to pull it off. I think the term "submarine" is being used as an analogy for a "sweep" rather than requiring uberskills. eg: If an active cloaky "hears" the ping he needs to move and/or counter. If he doesn't move/conuter, the returns strengthen by %'s. IMO, counter probably best option so active cloakies can stay in one spot which is fine.
Mr Kidd Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 358	Posted - 2012.01.19 01:41:00 - [53] - Quote met worst wrote: tikktokk tokkzikk wrote: This thread is not about AFK cloakers by the way. Reread the first post if you think so. Which is EXACTLY my point. It seems than non-AFK cloakers are worried about some "radar" system that might detect them. I'll betcha my Pony to your Cookie that CCP will NOT make any detriment to active cloakies - they will simply provide a way to scan down AFK cloakies. Otherwise why bother? Cloaking and what you can do with cloaking is not the issue and NEVER has been. But if one can find an afk cloaker surely they can find active cloakers. If the cloak-hunter is able to out tank and out dps the cloaker then, guess what? You've got a new class of cloak ship that everyone is going to use instead. Anyone serious about AFK cloaking is just going to macro up and warp to their next safe spot before they can ever be found. This doesn't solve anything but, certainly has the potential to fundamentally change cloaking. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX!
arcca jeth Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance 60	Posted - 2012.01.19 16:55:00 - [54] - Quote counter to the cloaky hunter is my stealth bomber torps and bombs. a destroyer or cruiser or even BC hull wont last one volley. i use my cloaking skills to hunt/recon, not to sit afk. i'll find the hunter hunting me before he will find me and if he does find me, it'll be the few seconds before impact when i voluntarily uncloaked. as i do not AFK cloak, i think it is fair if there is a cloak hunting ship that can, over time, eventually find an afk cloaky pilot. but then again, i'm torn, because i can see how afk cloakers can help keep bots from botting and simply just make the residents of a system paranoid. and since i'm torn on the idea, i cannot support it one way or the other.
Adeena Torcfist Dark Underground Forces 24	Posted - 2012.01.20 00:09:00 - [55] - Quote should be like a dictor bubble of xkm range. If ur in that bubble range, you can be seen, cloaked or not. Now, that just leaves it, to weather just that particular ship can see where the cloaker is, or, it lights them up, so everyone on grid can see them also. " Hey guys, i found this cloaky rat-bastard. Warp to me, get ur drones out & blast him to hell! "
MatrixSkye Mk2 Republic University Minmatar Republic 123	Posted - 2012.01.20 00:38:00 - [56] - Quote arcca jeth wrote: Hannibalx wrote: The whole idea is stupid. AFK cloakers are only a danger to afk players i.e. bots. I suppose weak minded null bears might find the presence of an afk cloaker demoralizing, but so what? The current mechanics are not broken. Leave it alone already. the AFK cloakers are there to remind people who think they are safe in blue space are in fact, not safe and should keep on their toes. And who's there to remind the AFK cloakers that they aren't safe themselves? And that they themselves can be killed if caught with their pants down (ie at the movies for hours and AFK in the middle of hostile space keeping everyone but themselves on their toes)? Why shouldn't someone be able to keep AFK cloakers on their toes? I'll just add that I have no problem with a cloaker terrorizing a system or even laying downeth psychological warfare. I DO have a problem with being able to do that with zero risk to yourself. If you want to actively terrorize a system for days or even weeks, do it, but BE AT THE KEYBOARD for that time or get caught with your pants down. This change is long overdue.
ITTigerClawIK Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers 65	Posted - 2012.01.20 00:45:00 - [57] - Quote just remove people in cloaked ships that are useing cov ops cloak from local chat.
Vespiidius Ceptic Innovations Rebel Alliance of New Eden 0	Posted - 2012.01.20 00:56:00 - [58] - Quote I think this is overdue and a brilliant idea. As long as it takes a certain amount of time to find the cloaked ship and allows for losing accuracy as he moves it sounds like a logical response to a standing technology. Cloaking is one of the few areas in Eve where the creation of a counter has been held up. In any sci-fi universe of note cloaking technology has counters which usually are difficult, take coordination and far from 100 percent accurate. It would be great if this cloak ship gains bonuses from being fleeted with other cloak hunters, sort of a magnified detector dependent on the number of ships in the hunt. Cloak ships have gotten sort of a free pass so far, it's time the defense industry started to catch up.
Brujo Loco Brujeria Teologica 325	Posted - 2012.01.20 01:07:00 - [59] - Quote Yes!!!! So many issues that still need to be looked in the game, yet you know what, lets mess with cloaking ... pffft! tsk, tsk CCP, tsk tsk ... Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
clamslayer Aliastra Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2012.01.20 01:57:00 - [60] - Quote This could very easily break covert operations in eve. what is needed is delayed local in a true sense. if local cant be removed than make it so that when someone jumps into a system a minute or two passes by before player names show up, or something along those lines.

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