There's open conflict between the Empire and rebel militias; conflict, I would remind you, initiated by the rebel state. Why are you here talking about a trade regulation breach between warring factions?

That implies that the Minmatar Republic is somehow less legitimate than the Amarr Empire

I suppose you save me the effort to tell about the event.

But yes, our task-force was there to rescue souls who requested our assistance. To keep it simple, it was a rescue mission for civilians who where completely unsupported by the Republic and left to starve on various barren planets along the front lines. We where successful picking up a majority of our targets, but obviously we ran into a republic task-force. Sadly they had little regard for the lives in the ship and put many to the slaughter. Many had a tragic swift death, but perhaps far better than a slow agonizing death on some barren wasteland.

This will not deter us. Expect us to be more active in protecting those who are faithful. We intend to respond to many other colonies which have souls suffering at the hands of a poorly run government who cares more about death and destruction than its own people.

Commodore Thgil Goldcore

Do you rehearse this drivel you spew out on a daily baisis?

We often have pilots who forcibly emancipate slaves come onto the IGS and claim that the slaves are free to return to the Empire if they wish.

So it's odd that the supporters of violent emancipation would be against PIE transporting Minmatars back home.

I suppose you save me the effort to tell about the event.

But yes, our task-force was there to rescue souls who requested our assistance. To keep it simple, it was a rescue mission for civilians who where completely unsupported by the Republic and left to starve on various barren planets along the front lines. We where successful picking up a majority of our targets, but obviously we ran into a republic task-force. Sadly they had little regard for the lives in the ship and put many to the slaughter. Many had a tragic swift death, but perhaps far better than a slow agonizing death on some barren wasteland.

This will not deter us. Expect us to be more active in protecting those who are faithful. We intend to respond to many other colonies which have souls suffering at the hands of a poorly run government who cares more about death and destruction than its own people.

Commodore Thgil Goldcore

As Muck Raker would put it "Un-believeable!"

You really should speak to her about publishing this clearly credible story in their fine truth-seeking pages.

We often have pilots who forcibly emancipate slaves come onto the IGS and claim that the slaves are free to return to the Empire if they wish.

So it's odd that the supporters of violent emancipation would be against PIE transporting Minmatars back home.

I suppose you save me the effort to tell about the event.

But yes, our task-force was there to rescue souls who requested our assistance. To keep it simple, it was a rescue mission for civilians who where completely unsupported by the Republic and left to starve on various barren planets along the front lines. We where successful picking up a majority of our targets

As happy as I am to see you flying for... the second... maybe third time in as many years, I find it hard to believe that PIE would suddenly start humanitarian missions into Minmatar space while none were planned during my time there. That said, I would like to welcome you to contact me in the future and I will attempt to arrange safer passage through the war-zone than flying around in a Sigil. Given that PIE Inc. owns a Prorator BPO and cloaks are relatively cheap, that would be yet another safer alternative for transport, if that were your true goal. All things considered, it seems pretty obvious that you sacrificed the lives of innocent slaves, needlessly.

That sounds rather similar to what i and my fellow Covenant members do, raid unguarded settlements for easy pickings, its not as sporting as a proper engagement but you need slaves and i need fresh captures.

Well it seems we're not so different after all.

Why would we hide when we have nothing to hide?

Just for the record, in your opinion should emancipated Minmatars be allowed to return to the Empire if they so wish?

On the contrary, the Minmatars that we collected last night left with us voluntarily.

Also, we have no plans to drain them of blood which is another difference between us and you.

You also lacked the plans to ensure their safety, despite being more than capable of such.

And, I believe I've noted before that I'm not opposed to slavery, in principle.

On the contrary, the Minmatars that we collected last night left with us voluntarily.

Also, we have no plans to drain them of blood which is another difference between us and you.

In which case, I'm surprised that you object to us transporting previously emancipated slaves through Republic space in order to avoid the TLF fleet.

It would seem that the desires of the slaves becomes a "he said, she said" conundrum rather quickly. The only safe assumption is that they have, statistically speaking, a desire to survive and therefore, you getting them killed was the worst possible outcome.

I would also disagree, simply because it is illegal.

Well how bout that, I just saw a fedo grow wings and fly away.

After a hundred years of Imperial lies about their true intentions and attempts to explain away their slave raids, they continue with just that. Color me surprised.

Or don't you believe in self-determination for your kind?

You must have missed the part where it was explained that the evacuations were voluntary.

Sure I do. I somehow doubt that they retain their right to self-determination now, though. Because you do not believe in self-determination for my kind. Glad we are back to the root of the conflict between our people.

"PIE Inc. has so far failed to present any credible proof that the people they took went with them voluntarily."


(For readers who do not follow every silly thread on IGS: Such proof is impossible to provide. PIE has recently asked for impossible-to-provide proof, and claimed that the absence of such proof is proof of the contrary.)

If you don't believe us, then you're welcome to set us red or declare war.

I refer you to the the words of your corpmate:



I didn't notice the Republic Fleet and the RSS objecting to our activities, so by your corpmate's logic we were acting within the bounds of the law.

"PIE Inc. has so far failed to present any credible proof that the people they took went with them voluntarily."

I don't recall you heathens bringing the same accusations against the Disciples of Ston for their "voluntary" relocations?

But here's something everyone seems to have missed. The Disciples are a neutral organisation, PIE are not.

But here's something everyone seems to have missed. The Disciples are a neutral organisation, PIE are not.

practicing slavery

Claiming to be neutral is not the same as being neutral.

Do you have proof of this?

Edit:


Either of you?

Do you have proof of this?

Neutral: Adjective - Not helping or supporting either of two opposing sides, esp. countries at war; impartial.

Removing slaves from Imperial territory by questionable methodology is by definition supporting those opposed to slavery.

Their actions have led to them being supported by anti-Amarrian forces, and opposed by pro-Amarrian forces.

It's hard to see how this would have happened had they truly been neutral.

But enough of the Disciples - they already have quite a few threads of their own, and this one is nothing to do with them.

I should also note by your default reasoning your own allies oppose slavery too.

Nonsense, this is you throwing your toys out of the pram on a rash action in a case of "Well they do it, so can we!"

You can't pick and choose your fans Admiral. You could create a drink brand that the Amarrian Empire simply couldn't get enough of, yet the taste of it isn't popular in the Republic, does that mean your drink is pro Amarrian? No, they're just the ones who like it.

Since there seems to be some confusion over exactly what happened, I'd just like to point out that the Minmatars were collected in Auga and Dal - systems under Imperial occupation.

Elaborate

Key word being 'occupation'. Rather than 'willing volunteers' this seems rather more likely to be 'raiding while we have the chance'.

They wanted a better life outside the warzone.

And you would deny that to them

They where denyed a better life outside the republic... Sadly most are dead now. Civilians cut down by forces sword to protect them... Sickening.

They where denyed a better life outside the republic... Sadly most are dead now. Civilians cut down by forces sword to protect them... Sickening.

They where denyed a better life outside the republic... Sadly most are dead now. Civilians cut down by forces sword to protect them... Sickening.

A better life being beaten, starved, and constantly told they're worthless unless they see things your way.

I've experienced that, and I'll fight tooth-and-nail to make sure nobody else ever will.

Oh gods, the "but but but we treat them well!" argument. IGS is worse than the worst holo channel with the re-runs.

For the love of all good gods and ancestors, treat your own kind as well as you like, but stop bothering the rest of the galaxy. That simple step would solve all your problems.

Kaleigh, they had slaves. In a Sigil. In lowsec. Republic...lowsec.

And the TLF just couldn't help themselves but open fire on the convoy. You know what I mean Rek, the Matari Bloodlust(TM) practically FORCED them to do it. So they can't be blamed at all for the deaths of the emancipated. It's all PIE's fault... Poor widdle freedom fighters, daddy will protect you from the bad PIE men.

So either the TLF is made up of a bunch of savages with no self-control who like the pretty lights when they shoot things or they shot first and asked questions second and are now, yet again, trying to play the Blameless Matari Victim by deflecting blame onto PIE to save face. Which is it, Jaiga?

Either way, it was Minmtar munitions that killed those civilians. Split hairs as much as you please, those are the facts.

Our fleet stated the fact that we were evacuating from planets shortly before we started returning to Empire space when members of the militia were present. These militia would have been able to communicate that there were civilians present to their fleets. Rather than this they slaughtered those who wanted a better a life back in the Empire. Was it merely the fact you would rather try paint us as the wrongdoers and protect the illusion that all the Minmatar suffer under the protection of the Empire?

Stop trying to turn the fact that the slaughter was done by the Republic, in an operation that had been broadcast locally to minimise the chance of civilian casualties.

I'll just point out the irony here -- you complain about being shot at when performing an illegal act.

PIE transported slaves in Republic space, which several times has been pointed out is a violation of Republic law. Yes, people died, and that's a tragedy. It was entirely avoidable from the outset, however, by the simple expedient of obeying our laws while in our space.

After all, you'd ask the same of us, wouldn't you?

Technically, I have heard that Auga and Dal are under imperial occupancy.

Either way, it was Minmtar munitions that killed those civilians. Split hairs as much as you please, those are the facts.

PIE transported former slaves freed by declaration of the Empress (i.e. normal citizens) in Republic space, which several times has been pointed out is in perfect harmony with Republic law.

For all we know, the TLF knew there were emancipated slaves aboard the Sigil and would rather silence the witnesses under the guise of destroying an Amarrian slaving fleet than let the truth about the Republic's hypocrisy regarding the treatment of their repatriated kin be exposed.

PIE got caught violating not only Republic law but also Imperial law (or has Heideran's prohibition on slave raiding been suddenly suspended?) and then they had the audacity to blame everyone but themselves for the subsequent death and destruction. Typical. As Captain Sadik said, "color me surprised".

P.S. Grreck thanks for the compliment but, you might want to fly to Yulai and ask for a refresher course in the law. Even though you may not feel the Republic is legitimate, CONCORD, the Federation, State and your own Empire see things differently.

PIE got caught violating not only Republic law but also Imperial law (or has Heideran's prohibition on slave raiding been suddenly suspended?) and then they had the audacity to blame everyone but themselves for the subsequent death and destruction. Typical. As Captain Sadik said, "color me surprised".

P.S. Grreck thanks for the compliment but, you might want to fly to Yulai and ask for a refresher course in the law. Even though you may not feel the Republic is legitimate, CONCORD, the Federation, State and your own Empire see things differently.

or has Heideran's prohibition on slave raiding been suddenly suspended?

You were the one carrying them through a battlefield, Arkonnis. I daresay that the real hypocrisy in this matter is yours, for claiming to care for your slaves' well-being and then flying them into an active warzone.

(or has Heideran's prohibition on slave raiding been suddenly suspended?

Heideran is long gone, along with his reformist policies.

Provide proof that they were volunteers.

Not carefully planned and written 'proof', but actual evidence that any one of those people were on that ship willingly.

I'll just go and ask one of them to testify and produce their relevant documents.

Oh wait, I can't. You killed them all.

How very convenient.

Not for the victims of Minmatar agression.

Here it is, folks, straight from the source: slave raids are legal once again.

Why am I not surprised it took so long for such a bold-faced admission to occur?

I'm not an Imperial Spokesperson. It's merely plain to see that Jamyl presents a quite different and aggressive front with regards to the Reclaiming. Something that Heideran seemed none to keen on, Jamyl has at least embraced in full.

If they would have been on those ships voluntarily they would have been tagged as refugees, not slaves. It's as easy as that.

Like it would have mattered to the TLF... The manifest was only known AFTER the transport was destroyed. It could have been carrying schoolchildren for all they knew. How they managed to destroy an entire fleet yet obviously lack the ability to immobilize a transport, or hell, even operate a cargo scanner is beyond me. It must be that when they see gold armor they start shooting indiscriminately.

Let's assume for a moment that the TLF is right; that PIE was conducting a slave raid and were caught. Again, why was the transport destroyed? No one sees the disconnect here? They see a PIE fleet with a transport, assume it's carrying newly acquired Matari meant for slave labor and they decide to blow it up anyway?

Don't tell me that if the TLF were notified that the transport was carrying civilians voluntarily returning to the Empire that it wouldn't have been fired upon. Obviously if they're willing to fire upon a vessel carrying what (allegedly) they thought were kidnapped Republic citizens, nothing stops them from attacking a vessel carrying Matari wanting to return to the Empire. If anything, it sounds like a motive.

They shot first, asked questions second. Their own reasoning still doesn't excuse or even partially mitigate their responsibility for this tragedy.

Heideran made the concession that your current rulers will not: that living beings are not items to be traded.

I'm pretty sure that there was a vibrant slave trade throughout Heideran VII's reign.

As far as I know, and despite what Lady Vitalia claims, no head-of-state since then has reversed that decision.

That was a major element of the Pax Amarria (which, in point of fact, I've been reading to better understand my wife's culture and upbringing), which Heideran's descendants seem to have forgotten.

You people always take the short view.

A more astute observation would be that -Heideran- was a very brief aberration in the long line of Imperial rulers following essentially the same unchanged agenda for the last thousand years.

Like it would have mattered to the TLF... The manifest was only known AFTER the transport was destroyed. It could have been carrying schoolchildren for all they knew. How they managed to destroy an entire fleet yet obviously lack the ability to immobilize a transport, or hell, even operate a cargo scanner is beyond me. It must be that when they see gold armor they start shooting indiscriminately.

Let's assume for a moment that the TLF is right; that PIE was conducting a slave raid and were caught. Again, why was the transport destroyed? No one sees the disconnect here? They see a PIE fleet with a transport, assume it's carrying newly acquired Matari meant for slave labor and they decide to blow it up anyway?

Don't tell me that if the TLF were notified that the transport was carrying civilians voluntarily returning to the Empire that it wouldn't have been fired upon. Obviously if they're willing to fire upon a vessel carrying what (allegedly) they thought were kidnapped Republic citizens, nothing stops them from attacking a vessel carrying Matari wanting to return to the Empire. If anything, it sounds like a motive.

They shot first, asked questions second. Their own reasoning still doesn't excuse or even partially mitigate their responsibility for this tragedy.

Please come back when you fit cargo scanners to your combat vessels. It's not exactly SOP.

Frell, my ship can barely fit what it's already got. There's no way it could run a cargo scanner.

Please come back when you fit cargo scanners to your combat vessels. It's not exactly SOP.

Oh, well in that case it's perfectly understandable that you wouldn't want to sacrifice any lethality for something able to discriminate targets, even if it's on just one ship in the fleet.

I'm sure their families will understand.

When and if I'm ordered to shoot a hostile target, I shoot it. I can't afford to quibble over what I'm shooting at.

So don't you dare lay that fedo-crap on me!

This lies at the feet of the TLF, no one else. Even your conscience knows "My CO made me do it" doesn't absolve you.

If PIE Inc hadn't put lives at careless risk this wouldn't have happened period, I believe someone pointed out earlier that they have the potential to utilise far better forms of logistics than this. Furthermore as someone pointed out, Interbus could have been contracted to carry this out.

Blame is not one sided, either way you look at it. But the end is a tragic loss of 150 lives, I agree with Captain Doyle on her sentiments.

650 lives, actually.

Still no explanation for the destruction of the Sigil. What was careless was the lack of target discrimination. I don't care if it was being piloted by the Empress' Royal Guard, if they honestly thought the Sigil was carrying abductees then they should've held their fire, yet they didn't. They can't afford to quibble about what they're shooting at.

But I've yet to see anyone deny knowledge of the Sigil's cargo before they opened fire.

Quoted from my CO:

'And they wouldn't have been there if you hadn't taken them. We had no knowledge of them being on board until after your fleets destruction. However, had you left them where they were, they would have been safer. Not 'safe', because they are living in an occupied system. But 'safer' than they were [i]in space. Where people shoot each other.'


That should clarify matters somewhat.

Said like a true liberator and warrior for the people. So being ordered to work in a mine is abhorrent and subhuman yet being ordered to kill innocent people is "collateral damage". Interesting notion of freedom you Matari have. Slavery is slavery regardless of the flag your master flies.

Heideran made the concession that your current rulers will not: that living beings are not items to be traded.

If the Empire comes into our space again, and tries to enact a new 'Reclaiming', we will respond with force to defend ourselves.

If they would have been on those ships voluntarily they would have been tagged as refugees, not slaves. It's as easy as that.

I'm a combat pilot, not the frelling Customs Enforcement Bureau! When and if I'm ordered to shoot a hostile target, I shoot it. I can't afford to quibble over what I'm shooting at. I kill people for a living, and I have to deal with that. Until recently, I was a functioning alcoholic because of this frelling war!

Every single life I take is one more face that won't stop haunting me.

So don't you dare lay that fedo-crap on me!

Which raises another point: why is the Empire so scared of change? Surely, as an enlightened society, social change would be a wonderful example of your progressiveness.

Instead, you fight tooth-and-nail to maintain the status quo.

Why is that?

Now forgive me if I'm short, as I've had some drinks. But if the Amarrians hadn't done anything in the first place, there wouldn't be an issue at all. That's all this entire damned conflict is about.


The Amarr invaded hundreds of years ago, and through abuse and brainwashing have genuinely convinced some Matari that the Empire is a good place to be, and then claim these people as their own. Would the ancestors of both groups considered this to be the case? Some eight-hudnred years ago, would a True Amarrian have looked upon a Brutor and said "This is a man of the Empire"? Surely not; he would have said "This is a man from outside of the Empire; he is not of the Empire". Likewise, the Brutor would have looked at the True Amarrian and said "I am not of your Empire; I am of my Tribe".

At what point does this change? Only when your interests, Amarrian, are threatened. You are too ashamed to admit your crimes. Yes. Crimes.

It is not fair that you can invade, enslave, slaughter, and ****, and then turn around and whine about "innocent lives being lost or risked". Are you ******* kidding me?! Get back down into mud holes you dirty rotten ******* pigs. Stay out of our space entirely.

It is not fair that you can invade, enslave, slaughter, and ****, and then turn around and whine about "innocent lives being lost or risked". Are you ******* kidding me?! Get back down into mud holes you dirty rotten ******* pigs. Stay out of our space entirely.

I am not sure if your corporation and fellow members deserve to get associated to that kind of messages - the ones that precisely make the IGS the cesspool it often is.

While it is certainly not the most diplomatic and curt of responses, it does make a change to see someone on here speak their mind and say exactly what they mean without clever worded ambiguity.

I am not sure if your corporation and fellow members deserve to get associated to that kind of messages - the ones that precisely make the IGS the cesspool it often is.

This is the only thing I see everywhere, especially coming from emo-minmatars.

I prefer ten times clever and reasonable answers, even if biased, like Mr Sadik usually does, than meaningless emotive answers that lead to nowhere, except maybe on more hatred.

So your excuse for mass murder or your fellow matari is that, until recently, you abused alcohol to get out of the responsibility that way?

I must say, you are doing a great job of discrediting an organisation that set out with quite some high standards.

Do indulge me, how many of your co-pilots still fly under the influence of alcohol or other substances? I am sure the widows and orphans left behind by your indiscriminate killing are thrilled to hear more about their brave "liberators".

You don't want to go down this road with me. You really don't.

Tell me something -- why do you crew your ships with slaves? Is it because you'll have something to crow about when your ships are inevitably destroyed? 'Oh, look at those savage Matari, they shoot without looking!'

Or maybe it's because you don't truly care about your slaves. I'm sure that they'd love hearing about how their brave 'saviors' consider them expendable.

So, you just go on playing the innocent martyrs.

I'm sure the slaves on your ship will thank you when you get them all killed.

get off the pedestal and stop playing victim.

Actually, it's you who kills them.

Anyways, what if I really want to go down this road with you?
Substance abuse really is not the way forward - especially if it leads to unnecessary suffering for yourself and others.


As Admiral Blake points out rightly it was your so-called republic who started this war.

It was minmatar who attacked CONCORD central, an international and neutral station - leading to great loss of life.

It was minmatar who attacked the Empire without provocation - leading to great loss of life.



Oh and, by the by, unlike you and others PIE actually does care about our slaves. It is for good reason that most members adhere to the strict SPCS guidelines and principles.

Those brave and desperate sixhundred-and-fifty souls chose the safety and prosperity of their true home, the empire, over the squalor of your ill-managed and crime ridden refugee-concentration-camps.

Those brave and desperate sixhundred-and-fifty souls chose the safety and prosperity of their true home, the empire, over the squalor of your ill-managed and crime ridden refugee-concentration-camps.

Oh, now, that's a bit of a laugh. We put them on spaceships and flew them into a battleground? Tell me, how precisely did we do that?

And no, you don't want to go down this road -- because until someone in this thread accused me of butchery, I was perfectly content to let sleeping fedo lie.

Whose ships were crewed with slaves in that battle?

Not ours, Laerise. Not ours.

Whose pilots willingly took those slaves into a warzone?

Not ours, Laerise. Not ours.

You can't lay this on us, however much you desperately want to avoid accepting that you got six hundred and fifty people blown into a fine atomic mist not two days ago.

Your ships -- your crew -- flew into a warzone. We didn't force you there, we didn't somehow command your slaves to man those ships.

You did.

So you can take your sanctimonius, holier-than-thou opinions and throw them into the heart of Old Man Star. Because it's not going to work with me.

*Astrid signs off with an angry glare*

Still not sure who's bright idea it was to use a bloody Sigil though, and further more to not at least give it a travel fit to give it a chance to avoid conflicts.

Infact after looking at it once again, the Sigil was fit to offer repair support and E-War for the fleet, so not only was it used to transport civilians but was designed to be used as an active combat ship. This is purely reckless and irresponsible and shows little regard for the safety of the people on board the ship.

Ahahaahaaa, this is amusing in several ways.

Congratulations to all in providing such entertainment.

Judging by the outcome, there was every reason to fit the Sigil for fleet support and defense seeing as it was attacked.

So, you're saying that you fit a cargo vessel for a fleet support role, and it's our fault we targeted that potential threat?

So, you're saying that you fit a cargo vessel for a fleet support role, and it's our fault we targeted that potential threat?

Given that transportation of Slaves is illegal in the Republic, PIE Inc. is in violation of Republic laws...

Again, the only reason things are as they are now is because of the Amarr Empire. If you lot hadn't came at all, these issues would not exist. Don't believe me? The Minmatar people were spacefaring before the invasion and were doing great things; colonizing new worlds and exploring.

.

If this is how you seek to discredit the efforts of PIE, Ms. Underking, I suggest you try harder or find more unsavory actvities within the ranks of PIE pilots in good standing. I wish you luck on that endeavor. You will need it.

CMDR. Vaarun Dakurra

Unless you are from a parallele universe, I suggest you check your history. You were so busy killing each other when we found you, your streets were slippery with your own blood. If anything, we gave you someone else to fight besides each other.

Do not romanticize a "glorious" past that did not exist. You were *conquering* each other's planets and *exploring* new ways to kill your own people. Those were your "great things". Enslaving your race was an attempt to save you from yourselves. Our mistake was not throwing our nets far or wide enough.

I really am done with you lot. All of you. There are a precious few of you left who seem halfway reasonable, but most of you are nuts.

How about, Commander, the needless bullying and threats that PIE issued against the Disciples of Ston not so long ago?

What did they do, again....? Oh, yes.

They declared that the Disciples were to open their doors for an immediate inspection, disregarded complaints of bias, ignored attempts to provide for a properly balanced inspection team, and then, based entirely on circumstantial and mostly non-existant evidence , unilaterally delcared the Disciples an enemy of the state.

Seriously, they've already done more than enough to discredit themselves; they hardly need our help.

Oh, don't worry, I'm sure it'll be alright by the next time you wish to do a backflip to being an Ammatar Sansha Blood Raider Tribal militiaman, or whatever you wish.

The words of jamyl are nothing but empty promises, the empire shall burn, the heavens themselves will be stained with your people's blood.

Really? That is the best you could contribute to this thread? You're really going to insult me over my past indeciveness without having any ******* clue about context or environment?

Yes. Because it is funny to wind you up like this. Hurr.

I have read this whole thread several times, and spent a while just thinking about it. All I can say is that I am saddened. Innocents died, and all we can do is bicker about who's fault it is. They are not the first to die, and I sincerely doubt they will be the last. I would appreciate it if people would leave this here. This discussion reflects badly on all of us.

Protect the living.

Honor the dead.

I have read this whole thread several times, and spent a while just thinking about it. All I can say is that I am saddened. Innocents died, and all we can do is bicker about who's fault it is. They are not the first to die, and I sincerely doubt they will be the last. I would appreciate it if people would leave this here. This discussion reflects badly on all of us.

Protect the living.

Honor the dead.

I don't get it. As someone raised a soldier I've come to know that even a child is able to accept one simple rule about war:

'War is ugly and there is no place for moral high ground in it.'

So, once this rule is understood, there is no need to try to shove off responsibility to the other side....

Kill 'em all and let God sort it out, eh?

Sorry but, even in warfare, there are certain tenets of basic civilized behavior that we (as supposedly civilized societies) have developed; civilian non-combatants will not be intentionally targeted, captured prisoners will be treated humanely and not subjected to cruel or unusual punishment, female prisoners will not be subjected to sexual assaults, etc.

I'm selling slaves in almost any system in Metropolis. Cheaper than dirt...... At least you can grow tomatoes in the dirt, fertilized by the slaves' corpses. I wouldn't recommend eating those rotten tomatoes though, unless you're minmatar, but then you can't read this message anyway.

Slaves come already lobotomized to minimize the chance of Sansha Nation and their constant "BWAINZZZZZZ" space zombie trash attack on your POS.

Kill 'em all and let God sort it out, eh?

Sorry but, even in warfare, there are certain tenets of basic civilized behavior that we (as supposedly civilized societies) have developed; civilian non-combatants will not be intentionally targeted, captured prisoners will be treated humanely and not subjected to cruel or unusual punishment, female prisoners will not be subjected to sexual assaults, etc.

I'm pretty sure that needless lobotomisation of slaves is against SPCS guidelines. So tell me: do you really mistreat your slaves, or are you just trying to be edgy?

When they are lobotomized they are also implanted with a cheap chip that simulates chimpanzee behavior. After the procedure they become 50% smarter than an average minmatar thanks to the chip. Slaves are able to count to 10 and you can even nominate them for the minmatar Nobel Prize in mathematics.

Sister Mithra, if I'm reading your statements correctly, am I to gather you feel the Empire has no moral "highground" in conducting it's expansion through military means?

I'm selling slaves in almost any system in Metropolis. Cheaper than dirt...... At least you can grow tomatoes in the dirt, fertilized by the slaves' corpses. I wouldn't recommend eating those rotten tomatoes though, unless you're minmatar, but then you can't read this message anyway.

Slaves come already lobotomized to minimize the chance of Sansha Nation and their constant "BWAINZZZZZZ" space zombie trash attack on your POS.

What a vile and putrid person you are, Enslaver! True Holders despise your kind of filthy trash.
What you are doing is wrong and you are worse than an infidel.

What a vile and putrid person you are, Enslaver!

Well arnet you being very hypocritical.

through the act of "holding," more commonly called slavery.

Calling enslavers vile and putrid, then admitting he is an enslaver himself, colour it in god all you like its very much the same thing, free labour for yourself and your empire.

It's not free labour though. If you want to look at things in economic terms the labour is exchanged for food, housing, education, childcare, healthcare and most importantly spiritual enlightenment.

You trade them scraps of food and pipe dreams of freedom in exchange for their very lives, they are paid in the most basic of amenities with little or no hope of ever becoming free except in death.

Actually my own slaves generally have facilities superior to many "free" workers in the Federation and the State, and they have the added benefit of not being made bankrupt if anything bad happens to them or their family.

Let's compare that to the fate of many slaves held by the supporters of Omir. Worked until they're no use any more and then drained of their blood for use in unholy rituals.

Let's compare that to the fate of many slaves held by the supporters of Omir. Worked until they're no use any more and then drained of their blood for use in unholy rituals.

Actually my own slaves generally have facilities superior to many "free" workers in the Federation and the State, and they have the added benefit of not being made bankrupt if anything bad happens to them or their family.

Let's compare that to the fate of many slaves held by the supporters of Omir. Worked until they're no use any more and then drained of their blood for use in unholy rituals.

Actually my own slaves generally have facilities superior to many "free" workers in the Federation and the State, and they have the added benefit of not being made bankrupt if anything bad happens to them or their family.

It's easy to avoid bankruptcy when you're not allowed to own anything in the first place.

Just saying.

What a vile and putrid person you are, Enslaver! True Holders despise your kind of filthy trash. We are meant to shepherd the heathen, lovingly guiding them to God through the act of "holding," more commonly called slavery. What you are doing is wrong and you are worse than an infidel. An infidel can be won to God through the discipline, teaching and guidance provided by a holder, but you have condemned yourself by your shameful actions.

Repent and turn from your evil ways.

I take great pride in my holder facilities. Those who are blessed to live on my colonies are given significantly better conditions than the average worker in any nation in this cluster. You can even ask that criminal Ston about this, whom has had a tour of my facilities before. I can't say this with complete certainty, but I do know that most within PIE hold the same values regarding slaves. As members of those true in faith it is our duty to guide our servants to the best of our ability.

In terms of freedoms many in the republic and federation constantly whine about should meet my head of facilities who manages my entire operation, Kahalm my first slave granted to me at the age of 5. He answers only to me within my organization, so obviously those who are talented and show great faith can come very far indeed. When doing God's will is the motivation instead of money humans can become much greater.

"If my slaves only wish to do as I say, they may do whatever they wish" is not freedom.

"As long as they do as I say, my slaves are treated better than the worst-treated people elsewhere" is irrelevant to the debate.

The average position of slaves in the Empire is pretty ****-poor. PIE's treatment of their slaves doesn't change that; trying to deny the general situation of slaves based on PIE's specific treatment is living in denial of the truth of the Empire; and lastly, how slaves are treated is pretty much irrelevant for the demands of the Minmatar. That they are generally treated ****-poor compounds to the problem, it's not the problem in and by itself.


We wish for our people - all of our people - to have permanent and irrevocable freedom to decide who they serve, where they live and what they do, regardless of whether their decision is in line with what some Amarrians or their nameless god asks for.

You will not achieve mutual understanding and peace if you insist on not understanding.

If only you had the patience to see what is happening, Our Empress has already set the criteria for those held to become free people, in fact Millions have already been freed, Many more than have been ripped from the care of their Holders in misguided attempts to free them. Tell me how you believe that the obliteration of all that these stolen from Gods lands will do well in the 'free' world? When they have no knowledge of unscrupulous traders, financial management and responsibilities or indeed basic understanding of the degenerate ways outside of the borders of the Empire?

Have patience and you will see in time if those who are held in bondage wish to go to the filth ridden and mismanaged republic, or if they choose to stay in the loving arms of the Empire. Granted some may choose to go spread Gods word, but I suspect that they will be slaughtered like many bearers of truth before them.

When they have no knowledge of unscrupulous traders, financial management and responsibilities or indeed basic understanding of the degenerate ways outside of the borders of the Empire?

Did you just honestly say that "we are horrible at educating these people, hence you may not remove them from our hands"?


PS. It's amusing to see how Amarrians can, without flinching, switch from "but we're freeing slaves, just show some patience, the Empress is doing that!" to "we won't free anyone and would love to enslave more of those who do not believe in God" depending on whether they feel like they are on the defensive or on the offensive in a given thread. If you really wonder why others do not trust your word, that is why. Though I suspect you do not actually wonder, you only say so for effect.

Did you just honestly say that "we are horrible at educating these people, hence you may not remove them from our hands"?


PS. It's amusing to see how Amarrians can, without flinching, switch from "but we're freeing slaves, just show some patience, the Empress is doing that!" to "we won't free anyone and would love to enslave more of those who do not believe in God" depending on whether they feel like they are on the defensive or on the offensive in a given thread. If you really wonder why others do not trust your word, that is why. Though I suspect you do not actually wonder, you only say so for effect.

"Only through many hardships
Is a man stripped to his very foundations
And in such a state
Devoid of distractions
Is his soul free to soar
And in this
He is closest to God"
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5

An education takes more than an afternoon.

Blessed are those who would provide shelter, food, medical care and a future to the wayward Minmatar. Souls who have been betrayed by the promise of "freedom" in the Republic of Despair...

Lies.

Everyone knows "PIE Inc. doesn't undock"

Therefore, this is a fabrication.

Argumentum ad populum.

Did you just honestly say that "we are horrible at educating these people, hence you may not remove them from our hands"?


PS. It's amusing to see how Amarrians can, without flinching, switch from "but we're freeing slaves, just show some patience, the Empress is doing that!" to "we won't free anyone and would love to enslave more of those who do not believe in God" depending on whether they feel like they are on the defensive or on the offensive in a given thread. If you really wonder why others do not trust your word, that is why. Though I suspect you do not actually wonder, you only say so for effect.

We've shown seven hundred years of patience, and a fat lot of good it's done for us.

I agree, seven centuries is a long time to be patient. I think the time for patience is over, perhaps it's time to claim the reclaimers, but as they are claimed let them also be liberated, to the darkest corners of the Bleak Lands, and into the furthest reaches of the Great Wildlands. And ye while they walk through the valley of the Thukker, past the hungry eyes of the Blood Raiders, abandoned to their fate, made to be the prey where once they were the predator, let us descend upon Domain and render it to dust...

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, your empire is failing, PREPARE TO TASTE THE RUST.

Bold words for someone in the Republic Military School.

past the hungry eyes of the Blood Raiders, abandoned to their fate, made to be the prey where once they were the predator, let us descend upon Domain and render it to dust...

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, your empire is failing, PREPARE TO TASTE THE RUST.

Well dont just drag them past us, that would be teasing.

For the record, Ensign Reann Amelana, Commodore Thgil Goldcore lost their ships in Vard and Commodore Sakkar Arenith, Lieutenant Junia Naqada, Commodore Laerise, Ensign Braxton Parvisu, Admiral Rodj Blake lost their ships in Amamake, including the pod of Lieutenant Naqada.

We often have pilots who forcibly emancipate slaves come onto the IGS and claim that the slaves are free to return to the Empire if they wish.

So it's odd that the supporters of violent emancipation would be against PIE transporting Minmatars back home.