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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
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CCP Prism X
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Posted - 2007.09.15 23:40:00 -
[91]
True, YouWhat suffers from this mistake of ours. However, this topic is not about that. I believe your alliance is in contact with our GMs to try and resolve the issue and I hope that resolution will be fair and square. I'm not trying to diminish the problem you have in any way at all. I just don't want this issue to become derailed. We're on your case to the extent that I've known about it for almost a week now, no worries it will be resolved one way or the other.
~ Prism X EvE Lead Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006. |
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Kobadon
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Posted - 2007.09.15 23:47:00 -
[92]
i am still not able too get on it just saying checking status i try to join it sead the sever has timed out not sure it may be me
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Emmerlaine
Gallente Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.15 23:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Apoc77
Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 15/09/2007 22:28:33 Answers to some questions: According to design conquerable stations should not be able to become capital stations. They do count towards constellation sovereignty but cannot be capitals. They wont be allowed to become capital stations in the future either. Owners of such stations should already have been contacted by GMs but what resolution will be offered is not up to me.
Hey.
everybody is happy that tranq is finally running smooth again and so am i. About the other issue, me and my alliance members are directly affected of, i'm not so contentet. Is there any special reason WHY conquerables can not be set as capitals? Im in permanent conversation with more than one GM for about a month and none could tell me why this has never been intended.
For me this sounds like an excuse and i see parallels to the time when station services on outpost were shootable but not on conquerables. Everyboy immediately saw that this are unfair conditions for all outpost owners and this certain issue has been solved quickly within days. I fear that the issue i'm talking about just does not effect that many people to raise the voice of the eve-community up enough to get this fixed too.
A frustrated player.
Apoc77 [FSP.]
P.S.: No resolution/reimbursement will be offered.
Heh, sounds like CCP fooled 10 different alliances into putting a lot of work into trying to get sov 4. Guess the joke's on us players again.
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
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Posted - 2007.09.16 00:04:00 -
[94]
Grouphug!
And on the station thing, denying conq. stations the ability to be capital is the future-proof way of making sure that at no time someone will be able to get Sov4 without having built at least a single outpost (in case there will be in some future expansion a new constellation that has 3 conq. stations - I don't think there is one right now). -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Grainsalt
Free Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.16 00:05:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This Monday it was brought to our attention that an alliance couldn't get Sovereignty 4 in their capital system even though they should. Looking into it we concluded that their capital station was a conquerable station which shouldn't be possible to set as a capital station. Fixing this required changing procedures in the database so attempting to set a conquerable station as capital station causes an error.
Unfortunately, due to unforeseen behavior in the server code a certain argument was passed to the procedure, which did not have anticipated default value, causing the procedure to error on every call from conquerable stations that were set as capital stations, of which there are 10 of on Tranquility.
While hotfixing this we failed to notice that the error flag code we copied was bad, that error condition can possibly have caused other crashes, in the sense that it did not close the transaction. This in turn led to that every call to this procedure would lock up a session to the database as it waited indefinitely for the transaction to be either rolled back or closed. The sessions locking up created a plethora of different locks all over the database, causing us to chase for a ghost of the problem. Eventually this led to a database fail-over which meant Tranquility crashed.
This oversight has been located in two other procedures as well, but none of them are called often enough on Tranquility to cause any real problems.
To sum it up, a series of unfortunate exceptional cases set up an environment on TQ wherein 10 stations on the entire server could repeatedly lock sessions in the DB until it had to do a failover to free them up. As a result of this, our hotfixing protocols are being revised to prevent this from happening again in the future.
I find it strangley scarey that I understand that statement... But fair enough.. EVE is a complex beast.. And Transactions are more so.. ---
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=554257
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CCP Prism X
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Posted - 2007.09.16 00:09:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Emmerlaine
Originally by: Apoc77
Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 15/09/2007 22:28:33 Stuff.
Stuff.
Heh, sounds like CCP fooled 10 different alliances into putting a lot of work into trying to get sov 4. Guess the joke's on us players again.
I've answered this already. Please refrain from derailing this topic. If you feel my previous answer was inadequate create your own topic.
~ Prism X EvE Lead Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006. |
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Cermanius
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Posted - 2007.09.16 01:03:00 -
[97]
CCP, my hat is off to all the people that worked on this. I know first hand how hard it is to trouble shoot issues of that type, for I've done it for a website I work for. Days spent sifting through core dumps, log files, and such.
Again, excellent work. Good to know that information flows freely at CCP. Now everyone should go rest... for 3 days...
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Jaku Lonaru
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Posted - 2007.09.16 01:20:00 -
[98]
I want to commend CCP for the way they handled this DB issue. Not just for the countless hours and sleepless nights they spent working on the issue, and the no doubt oodles of money spent on outside consultants. But especially for the transparency. I think this is the first time since I've been playing EVE that I felt completely informed and not the least bit in the dark about what had gone wrong and what was being done to solve the problem. I think this level of transparency is what is needed to continue to reassure the user base that CCP is in fact doing everything they can to maintain a stable and enjoyable player experience.
As software developer, I understand how difficult it can be to deliver bug free software. No amount of testing can guarantee bug free software. And testing all permutations of a system as large and complex as EVE must be a truly daunting task. With each new class of error, the testing and QA procedures are updated to reduce the chance of that type of error slipping though in the future. This is the nature of software development and CCP has done a commendable job, especially given their need to balance stability with feature growth.
It is my sincere hope that CCP will continue to be as forthcoming and transparent with future issues as they have been with this issue.
Admitting to and being open about mistakes is not a sign of weakness, but a sigh of strength.
Keep up the good work CCP.
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Ilfar
Minmatar Manta Ice Ilfar Collective Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.16 01:49:00 -
[99]
Big cheers for the explanation, very reassuring to get told what went wrong rather than just "x broke, y was down as a result". :3 *-----------------------* Press to test... *click* Release to detonate... |
Great Artista
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.09.16 02:20:00 -
[100]
Excellent work CCP! \o/
_______
◕◡◕ Space perverts and forum warriors united. [PERVS]
My opinions rather rarely represent my corp, not to mention my alliance hihihi... |
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Cagot
Gallente Arcanus
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Posted - 2007.09.16 02:34:00 -
[101]
Excellent debugging job, team, and thanks for the detailed explanation. Sounds like this can't have been an easy one to track down.
Woot! \o/
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flakeonium
Amarr The Cruciform
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Posted - 2007.09.16 02:44:00 -
[102]
horror week for devs i guess yes, but could someone tell CCP John Proctor he does not have to risk his health for me ? (i assume he is alright now)
-------------------------------------------------- *<(:-} |
Reachok
Amarr Omiracon Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.16 02:54:00 -
[103]
Good server detective work!!
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Tkar vonBiggendorf
Gallente Snake Eyes Inc deadspace society
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Posted - 2007.09.16 03:04:00 -
[104]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor I can go sleep now
Dont go 72 hours with no sleep... you get sent to the hospital and have to answer emails with your black berry from the emergency room
CCP John Proctor, I salute you. Now, don't do that again.
Thanks CCP. I'm sure ya'll are feeling mighty relieved about now.
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Jack Randall
Caldari AFK
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Posted - 2007.09.16 03:11:00 -
[105]
Congrats for hunting down and solving this bug guys!
Btw I love this one:
"The sessions locking up created a plethora of different locks all over the database, causing us to chase for a ghost of the problem"
Do you mind if I use it in my work?
Goddam Scotty! Don't have all day! |
AutoDJ
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Posted - 2007.09.16 04:55:00 -
[106]
honestly i dont think concurable stations should be allowed to be set to capitals .
if an alliance wants a capital i think they should have to have an outpost either in the same system or one else where that would have avoided the the ghost bug as well
any way good job on the work
this is an alt btw
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Victoria Ehr
Twisted Attitude Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.09.16 05:02:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Victoria Ehr on 16/09/2007 05:03:46 Thanks CCP for all your efforts with this unique game and fixing that aweful bug, once again the support guys save the fleet!
Demand answers and inherit lies; Ask questions and inherit truth. Ramileus |
shortspecialbus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.16 05:56:00 -
[108]
Thanks for getting this fixed, it's been a frustrating week for all. Good work guys.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.09.16 06:36:00 -
[109]
Yay!
Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Martineth
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Posted - 2007.09.16 06:42:00 -
[110]
Good work. and i DO NOT MEAN RECTIFYING THIS. It is good that you kept us posted, made us take part in a way. This is the first time i felt that the Dev Team is beside me. This is the CCP we are hoping for. Thumbs up. You ever strand in Greece leme know. I buy the Coffe. (Beer here sucks big time but you can allways try OUZO power.)
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Mad Pedro
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Posted - 2007.09.16 06:54:00 -
[111]
Is the server still down, or is it just me?
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Althea Nar'agh
StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.09.16 07:14:00 -
[112]
\0/
Nice one guys! I knew it's players fault
Now all of you go have some good sleep!!!
Onece more gratz on finding it :) -------------------------- War. War never changes EvE Training Monitor / iMonitor / iCEO EvE iHelper |
Msquare
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Posted - 2007.09.16 07:22:00 -
[113]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor I can go sleep now Dont go 72 hours with no sleep... you get sent to the hospital and have to answer emails with your black berry from the emergency room
As an IT troubleshooter - Been there, done it, ... almost drove off the road into the ditch on the way back to the hotel. (Oh this was years ago, when I was a young man, full og bragging and folly.)
Anyhow, all is well that ends well, and there is that "kick" when you have finally nailed the sucker!
I also note, for all of those (negative) posts about the database - it wasn't the database, it was an application issue. (And we could debate at length whether the DB should have been able to show no.of.open.transactions, lost.session.count, or whatever metric was needed to point the bughunters in the right direction; but we wont.)
Lets play ! |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.09.16 07:32:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Sanfrey Statolomy Awesome! That must have been a real Eureka moment. Thanks for the technical explanation too, I'm sure lots of others work in IT like me and were reading the post with lots of "aha!!" and "oh yeah that would be a pain to find" commentary!! Now take a short holiday. There.. did you enjoy it? back to work! *Whip******
One little 'trick' I've learnt over the years is that whenever you start thinking "But that's not possible" or "Wtf? Is the CPU broken"..it's time to look at your most trusted code. The bits you've been ignoring because you 'know' they are fine.
Dunno if that applies here but it does sound like it. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
kuromei
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Posted - 2007.09.16 07:45:00 -
[115]
As a doctorate candidate in computer science and math, I painfully understand how difficult this bug must have been to find. However, leaving open ended conditionals will always be prone to throwing this error. You can never know the full set of values users will pass to them, and therefore refraining from "else {" is logically guarenteed to ensure this problem doesn't cascade, which makes it incredibly easy to prevent and troubleshoot.
It's also one of the downsides with using a nonstrict programming language, but honestly the benefits usually outweight the negatives.
Anyway, I appreciate your communication, and your vigilance is solving it. As usually, you guys are the best!
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.16 07:55:00 -
[116]
Damn, talk about elusive. Nice job. :)
I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :) |
Farscape Hw
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.16 08:09:00 -
[117]
i lost 500billion isk, 5 titans and a 2008 chevy silverado in the database issue. please reimburse me.
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Mr Feltcher
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Posted - 2007.09.16 08:24:00 -
[118]
well done ccp, good job on keeping the severs limping along and good work on fixing the crashes..
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Leia Corrino
Essence Shipyards Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.16 08:48:00 -
[119]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Swamp Ziro
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: CCP John Proctor Dont go 72 hours with no sleep... you get sent to the hospital and have to answer emails with your black berry from the emergency room
I wasn't sure which worried me more, that you were sent to the hospital or that you kept answering your e-mails from the ER. Thank you for keeping TQ up this week.
Wait.. seriously?
Yes, seriously.
Dear God!
Thank you all CCP staff for your hard work, but don't risk you health like that!
/me sends extra Kudos to CCP John Proctor
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Kastaldi
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.09.16 08:58:00 -
[120]
Well, thanks for all this debugging job. I'm wondering where are all those players crying for their precious bucks lost in all these crashes... They seem vanished... :)
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