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Ralus
Union Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:05:00 -
[1]
Everyone knows that to warp in eve you have to first align you ship, then off it goes, its one of the cornerstones of the games warp feature but IÆve often wondered if itÆs the best way of implementing the system, with bigger and bigger ships arriving and longer align times and new methods of stopping ships escaping by æbumpingÆ IÆm left thinking has eve become too clever for a ship to simply fly in the right direction before entering warp.
IÆm gonna push the boat out a little here and redesign the warp system, based on the old sci fi notion that warp-drives need to be chargedà
You arrive at a gate, you select your next warp target and the select warp to. Now what happens, your warp engines start to charge, for each ship class this takes a different time, the smallest frigs might be 0.5secs, the largest dreadnaughts upwards of 10secs, once your engines are charged you flash into warp, completely independently of the direction your facing, imagine battlestar galactica (new once ofc) effect.
Once your in warp you see a new effect as your ship falls through its on little man made singularity, gone are the super fast flybys through the systems, I know a lot of you will cry to see it go but its for the best really, IÆve always thought it was one of the games uglier moments when it flew through a planet or station and the games gfx engine broke down into clipping effects when you passed through an object.
Another bright flash later and you arrive; stationary; at your new location, still facing the same direction you were when you left, from now on you can continue with your journey.
I anticipated some questions, hereÆs a few answers.
1) Why?
With a charge bar you know exactly when your going to hit warp, you know exactly how long it takes you to hit warp and you know exactly what can stop you warping and you know if somethingÆs going wrong.
2) Will my warp scrambler still work?
Course it will, get scrambled and youÆll have to have a warp stab for your engines to even start charging (and thatÆs a subtle change too, means the scrambler has to die before warp starts not a simple matter of aligning, kill the scrambler then insta warp).
With this system I propose some other changes too, surprising firepower will knock your charge bar back a little, each ships has a unique damage suppression value, take more damage than that in a 0.1sec period and youÆll lose 1% of your charge bar, this gives a decent fleet an edge over a large ship, especially capitals that are immune to other forms of scrambling.
3) If you arrive at your location instantly how does a bubble work then?
Simple, warp bubbles work like normal if you jump in into them and if you warp into a location too close to where one is sitting you flash out of warp inside it.
4) Fleet aligning is an important part of any operation, its important a battle group arrives together, wont this stop that?
No, its true each ship will take a different amount of time to enter warp but when you select your location you can chose to simply æspin-upÆ your warp drives and sit ready to go, the cost? A 50% reduction in your capacitor recharge rate, once the whole fleet is ready everyone initialises there warp engines and arrives en mass, you could even bind this option to the fleet warp function in the squad interface for gang leaders.
I hoped with this option people are left with the ability to either escape quickly or engage, most people would not engage with a -50% car recharge debuff over there heads.
5) How will I make safespots?
Answer, by adding that feature to the solersystem map, most people have played homeworld the simple click and drag the curser up or down in the y-axis to set a 3d location is ideally suited to that interface, I still donÆt know why CCP didnÆt add it in in the first place.
ThatÆs all for the moment, IÆll lurk about in the thread for a bit and answer any further questions you have, please add any opinions you have.
Cheers
Ralus.
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Naru Narussegawa
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:13:00 -
[2]
First.
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Mudkest
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mudkest on 16/09/2007 17:18:04
definetly an interesting idear. just wondering though, if you initialised warp and your warp core is spinning up, what happens if you get scrambled then? continue warping, warp drive stays at x% or does it get cancled?
will the warp time be affected by skills/modules like it is now? adding i-stabs and nano fibres adn trianing evasive manouvring/space ship command gets you in warp faster, guess those skills dont apply anymore then. I could ask if there will be new modules/skills for that, but also wondering if asking "SHOULD there" might be better 8)
might make (afk) traveling a bit nicer too, dont have to spend half the time in warp anymore(and harder to chase people as well as you cant see what direction theye warp off too)
 Originally by: Naru Narussegawa
First.
second 
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GIEV custom ship paint jobs!
I want my hello-kitty-kessie! |
xHalcyonx
Amarr
Lucian Alliance
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:21:00 -
[4]
Edited by: xHalcyonx on 16/09/2007 17:21:18
Originally by: Mudkest
Edited by: Mudkest on 16/09/2007 17:18:04
definetly an interesting idear. just wondering though, if you initialised warp and your warp core is spinning up, what happens if you get scrambled then? continue warping, warp drive stays at x% or does it get cancled?
will the warp time be affected by skills/modules like it is now? adding i-stabs and nano fibres adn trianing evasive manouvring/space ship command gets you in warp faster, guess those skills dont apply anymore then. I could ask if there will be new modules/skills for that, but also wondering if asking "SHOULD there" might be better 8)
might make (afk) traveling a bit nicer too, dont have to spend half the time in warp anymore(and harder to chase people as well as you cant see what direction theye warp off too)
Originally by: Naru Narussegawa
First.
second
third 
and /signed
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ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn |
Dexter Rast
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:24:00 -
[5]
so its basicly like running what would be described as an in-system jump drive..
pretty good idea realy, warp core has to spin up to certain speed to initiate warp, any warp scrambler resets this spinning motion so the ship has to charge up again once the scrambling has stopped,
warp core stabs obviously counter this scrambling effect still, and maybe inertia stabs to help the warp cores inertia, faster spinning kinda like a lightened flywheel,,
its a very realistic alternative to whats in place now tbh, but wether its worth the effort to change over, or if indeed it needs to be changed over is another question
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ralus
You arrive at a gate, you select your next warp target and the select warp to. Now what happens, your warp engines start to charge, for each ship class this takes a different time, the smallest frigs might be 0.5secs, the largest dreadnaughts upwards of 10secs, once your engines are charged you flash into warp, completely independently of the direction your facing, imagine battlestar galactica (new once ofc) effect.
I don't see it as necessary (warp aligning is a nice feature), and, at any rate, the times you proposed are way too fast. A frigate will typically take upwards of three seconds (A rifter with max skills and a 200mm RT plate about 3.5s, according to EFT) to fully align in another direction, get up to speed, and start warping. That gives you a bit of time to lock it down if you warped on top of it - under your system, it would be impossible.
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Captain Sonata
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:31:00 -
[7]
/sign
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ralus
1) Why?
With a charge bar you know exactly when your going to hit warp, you know exactly how long it takes you to hit warp and you know exactly what can stop you warping and you know if somethingÆs going wrong.
You know when you are going to hit warp right now...when your speed-meter is to 3/4s full. That can be seen prety well on the current interface.*
How long it takes you to hit warp is a pretty pointless information.
Knowing if you are scrambled can be made more visible without changing the whole warping system.
* when arriving at a gate at least, the example you used. Ships who have jumped in do not face in any direction for the game (what you see on your screen does not matter there) - for the game you start to exist pointing into the direction you issue the first movement command.
This can be tested rather easily, you take the same time to get into warp to an object which seems to be right before you as you need to get into warp towards an object right behind you.
In other situations you need more time if you want to go into warp, but that is rather good that way. If you want to have an quick escape route ready you need to think ahead, if you are surpised you are (and should be) in the disadvantage.
Essentially you want to simplify a thing in eve which needs no simplifying.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Aramendel
Essentially you want to simplify a thing in eve which needs no simplifying.
This.
I think the current system is better.
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Ralus
Union Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Ralus
You arrive at a gate, you select your next warp target and the select warp to. Now what happens, your warp engines start to charge, for each ship class this takes a different time, the smallest frigs might be 0.5secs, the largest dreadnaughts upwards of 10secs, once your engines are charged you flash into warp, completely independently of the direction your facing, imagine battlestar galactica (new once ofc) effect.
I don't see it as necessary (warp aligning is a nice feature), and, at any rate, the times you proposed are way too fast. A frigate will typically take upwards of three seconds (A rifter with max skills and a 200mm RT plate about 3.5s, according to EFT) to fully align in another direction, get up to speed, and start warping. That gives you a bit of time to lock it down if you warped on top of it - under your system, it would be impossible.
Thats cool, numbers can always be shuffled around to what seems fair, 0.5 was what I originally thought because frigs always seemed quite fast into warp but since you mention it 0.5secs is maybe a litlle too fast
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2007.09.16 18:02:00 -
[11]
No. You're changing it for no reason but to eliminate bumping from the game and make it look "prettier", yet it sounds pretty "ugly" the way you described it  (BRIGHT FLASH, CHIZAM)
Safespot idea is stupid. LETS MAKE IT SO I CAN WARP ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME. Not to mention with the directional scanner, a few seconds will produce your exact location down to a km, allowing me to warp to you without the use of scan probes. Or just warp 500km above a fleet to scout it out instantly on a gate. Of course, they could instantly warp straight to you, or 500au away, whichever they perfer.
Safespots are like they are because of balance.
Why change something that isn't broken? Fix the lag issues before you go changing a simple feature to eliminate one way to die.
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Stardust Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.16 18:09:00 -
[12]
I hate the new Galactica, its crap :) Old one 4tw!
I dont like the idea, every experienced pilot knows when his ship hits the warping speed.
What is the game showing you when you "jump" .. yes, its no warp, its a jumpdrive. As a fan of Sci-Fi films, games etc i still enjoy warping, it adds much more flair to the game as simply disapearing and apearing somewhere else.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.16 19:33:00 -
[13]
Yeah please CCP make my carrier warp like my fighters :D
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Fkn Klown
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.09.16 19:36:00 -
[14]
My fully fit Damnation takes 16s to warp, Geddon.. 18s.
><
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Celeste Bane
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:03:00 -
[15]
Pretty good and fresh new suggestions. ^_^
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Dheorl
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:19:00 -
[16]
Its basically just changing something that really doesn't need to be changed. It's no more user friendly than the current system and doesn't add any extra "realism".
For those reasons definatly not /signed.
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Darthirishguy
Caldari
The Knighthawks
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Darthirishguy on 16/09/2007 20:22:20
Edited by: Darthirishguy on 16/09/2007 20:20:45
...
really???
i mean really?
Anyway to tell where they warped to/from?? different warp speed(frigate / frieghter)
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:23:00 -
[18]
I like this idea and wish Eve's warp system had been more like this from the start.
It'll be tough to get CCP to change though. People are already used to the current mechanics and it would take some code changes. They've already got enough stuff to fix to keep em busy for a few years. ;)
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:37:00 -
[19]
A chinese farmer... you warp to his belt... warp->ss->cloak
It's silly. Ships should have warp timer, while attempting to warp they shouldn't be able to use anything apart from mods affecting themselves(reps, hardeners, propulsion mods) and if not scrambled, it would warp. Bubbles, scrams would have same role as they have now.
Same as now, but a bit harder for ninjanpcers.
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Excesse
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:51:00 -
[20]
Nah don't like it, sorry. :(
It sounded good until you mentioned the fleet aligning issue, then I didn't like your proposal for the cap recharge penalty. Perhaps if entering warp was a two-stage (1. tell your warp drive to charge 2. hit go when they pass the warp threshold) process, there would be no need for the cap recharge penalty, but I'm sure this wouldn't be popular at all with highsec hauler carebears.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:55:00 -
[21]
I dislike this. It would eliminate several tactics. First, many people pre-align with a warpable object, and if something disturbs them, they hit the MWD and get up to speed, warping very quickly. Second, many times gatecamps are avoided by warping to the closest thing to your nose (and besides, couldn't pirates just figure out the quickest warp core spin-up time and make sure they can lock quicker? The current way is a little less certain). Third, quite often you can guess where somebody's warped to by where his nose was pointing and give chase. Not possible with your idea.
/fail
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2007.09.16 21:07:00 -
[22]
no point, sorry
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Vestia
Dirty Girls Holding
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Posted - 2007.09.16 21:18:00 -
[23]
If i understood all this correctly, I'd say no, for one simple reason. It would negate gang/fleet warps. Have to align and get to speed for them.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.09.16 21:24:00 -
[24]
Why change a perfectly fine and working warping system?
Plus with your idea in system distances and different warp speed of ships (speed in warp not speed entering warp) wont matter anymore thus making eve poorer on the tactical level not to mention creating and finding of safespots.
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sgt spike
Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.09.16 21:26:00 -
[25]
pvp will become totally consensual, welcome to world of warcraft
Hire Sicarri
http://www.sicarri.net/ZelotKB/ |
Stakhanov
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.09.16 21:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ralus
IÆm left thinking has eve become too clever for a ship to simply fly in the right direction before entering warp.
How is that a problem ?
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Aramendel
Essentially you want to simplify a thing in eve which needs no simplifying.
This.
I think the current system is better.
Quoted for truth. Why do you hate complexity and challenge ?
Originally by: Cipher7
If you manage to get baited, what's your skill, being a good victim?
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thisismyalt
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Posted - 2007.09.16 22:17:00 -
[27]
Sure, why not.
Lets also add instant teleport scrolls too while your carebearifying Eve.
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PathetiQ
Gallente
The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2007.09.17 00:41:00 -
[28]
28th!
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Sweet Pea
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Posted - 2007.09.17 03:28:00 -
[29]
This change would actually let the program pre-load the grid before you show up and wait to see whats there (even though whats there already can target and kill you), enabling less lag issues in combat.
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Bodhisattvas
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.09.17 04:24:00 -
[30]
Op needs to lay of the happy baccy.....
Stupidest thing since egg rollz got his pilots license......
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