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Eve makes my computer melt... literally.

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T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:50:00 - [1] Okay CCP, here's the thing: My alt lives in jita. Usually this isn't a problem. Sure the lag is obnoxious and logging in takes a while, but I've always chalked that up as the price of being in jita and accepted it. Until now. I believe that eve has caused my computer to actually physically melt, and I'd like some clarification about this. You see, sometimes, when the lag is really bad, I'll go to log in and it will (naturually) take a long time to load the environment. During this time, my CPU is pegged at 100% - again, not a huge deal. But after about ten minutes of waiting, the heat level of my power supply goes way past tolerance. I know when this has happened because the power supply on my computer naturally gets very hot. The output amps fluctuate due to the strain on the power supply and I begin to see artifacts from my video card on the screen. I've already burned through one power supply because of this. In fact, the power supply didn't burn out, but it did physically melt at the plastic around the power cord connection in the back. Obviously, this isn't safe, and I'm always very conscious of my heat levels now and ctrl-q out of eve when the environment (jita 4-4 usually) loading takes too long. Please note that my computer is very well cooled and ventilated, and normal in-game play doesn't cause a problem. However, I believe that the initial environment loading process is very hard on resources - no matter what. Typically, however, this isn't a problem since the environment loading usually takes under a minute. The CPU doesn't ever go over 125 degrees Fahrenheit during this time, which tells me that the core isn't going through an abnormal amount of strain during the loading process, but for whatever reason a hardware resource in my computer (I'm thinking the video card) is calling for so many amps from the power supply (via the molex connection on the video card - the extra amps don't go through the AGP bus) that it just can't take it for a prolonged amount of time and begins to physically melt as the electrical friction builds up. For whatever reason, this is the only time when the heat on the power supply is an issue. Running missions, flying in space, and PvP doesn't cause this type of strain on the power supply. Just the environment loading - and just in jita during heavy server load times when it takes quite a while for the entire environment to load. Do you guys have any thoughts on this or does anyone else have this issue? I'm enough of a geek that I know to shut things down when things get too hot, but if others are having problems of this nature it could cause their power supplies to catch fire (I am not kidding - it gets that hot) which is obviously unsafe. Not to mention, of course, the shortened lifespan on components (mainly the capacitors and regulators in the power supply itself) due to the prolonged heat exposure. If for no other reason, I'm hoping you can do something to the client so that it doesn't call so many video resources while lagged out waiting to load the entire dock environment on initial connection. I'd hate to lose another power supply because of Eve, or worse yet I'd hate for someone to burn their house down. I know all of this sounds a bit zany, but I promise I'm not crazy or imagining any of this. Feedback would be appreciated.
CaptianBlack Minmatar UNIVERSAL HAULAGE	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:53:00 - [2] don' log out in Jita then... jump to Itamo or 1 more jump... should be fine then.. Use quotes ("") in URL tags or it breaks the layout.-Rauth
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:54:00 - [3] You overclocked your rig didnt you.
Eric Bana	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:54:00 - [4] While jita does make me want to burn my house down - it cannot overheat yourpower supply like that. I suspect this is a very elaborate stealth whine about lag and I fully support it.
Wild Rho Amarr Endgame.	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:55:00 - [5] It's a fault with your machine, not with Eve.
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:56:00 - [6] Yes, I understand that the "workaround" to this is to just not base in jita (I've already decided on this.) However, that doesn't change the fact that this is a problem that should be brought to the attention of CCP and the playerbase. --
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:00:00 - [7] Edited by: T''Renn on 16/09/2007 19:02:47 Also, it's not a fault of my machine. I admit that my video card may be inefficient, but under no circumstances should it cause my power supply to melt. I'm a certified and educated computer professional - I'm not just guessing here. No, this isn't a stealth whine about lag. I accept lag as part of the game (and certainly part of life in Jita.) Let's keep it constructive. Edit: Also, to clarify, my computer is NOT overclocked. It is a stock AMD Athlon 64 3000+ running on an asus K8V-SE mainboard with a BFG GeForce 6800 GT AGP video card. --
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:02:00 - [8] Get a higher voltage power supply. Did you buy a pre-assembled rig, then put in a new graphics card? Did you build your computer and use the PSU that came with the case? If either of those are true, invest in a PSU that has a nice voltage output, it sounds like it wasn't built for this kind of punishment. T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers \| Eve GUI Tweaks
Notorious BigJohn	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:02:00 - [9] Edited by: Notorious BigJohn on 16/09/2007 19:02:00 Originally by: T'Renn I'm a certified and educated computer professional - I'm not just guessing here. lol - you are quite cleary not and baiting me
Bo Bojangles Minmatar High4Life	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:02:00 - [10] Jita killing power supplies? C'mon. Sounds like in the time that you're waiting for Jita to load, you're noticing something going on with your computer that's going on much of the time anyway, but you may not be noticing it because you're doing things. If your PS is getting so hot as to fray the wirings, then it's an issue with the manufacturer, and if it were me I'd contact them ASAP and see if you can get a replacement. I'm sure they certainly wouldn't want their PS to be the cause of a potential fire.
mechtech Entropy Industries	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:06:00 - [11] are you seriously blaming eve for this? The 1st thing you should do with a new PC is to run a CPU stress test (prime 95 or orthos) and make sure it's running within its thermal limits, and see that it works under full load for a few hours without crashing/giving errors/overheating. Under no circumstance will eve even come close to that amount of load. If your CPU/PSU can't handle that, much less Jita, than it wouldn't even be considered stable at overclock.net. I'm assuming you're overclocked, if not, send it in for warranty, or maybe one of your PSUs rails isn't strong enough for your CPU under load. PSUs have the most defects by far, so I wouldn't be suprised if a connection was loose or something, especially if you didn't get a PSU from OCZ/Pc&p/(other good brands)...
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Bo Bojangles Jita killing power supplies? C'mon. Sounds like in the time that you're waiting for Jita to load, you're noticing something going on with your computer that's going on much of the time anyway, but you may not be noticing it because you're doing things. No - the power supply functions fine and within normal heat parameters during normal gameplay and when playing other games. Also, the power supply is not the stock one that came with my case (lol) and at 550W is rated at more than enough to run Eve with my hardware. --
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:07:00 - [13] Edited by: Grawshellar on 16/09/2007 19:08:40 Quote: I'm a certified and educated computer professional - I'm not just guessing here. Heh VERY SIMPLE, BASIC COMPUTER TIP. If your power supply can't push all your hardware, BUY ONE THAT CAN. EDIT: The fact of the matter is, you've identified the problem. You know its the PSU struggling to get enough power to your hardware. Buy a new one.
Sydony Solaris	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:09:00 - [14] Wow, this is odd. I've been having the same problem recently. My motherboard alarms start going off when I get to the 'select character' screen and during the initial loading. Afterwards, I'm generally fine. None of my other programs/games do this, and I'd think that many of them are more taxing on my hardware than EVE. I wonder what's going on?
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:09:00 - [15] I've got an idea - instead of sitting here telling me what an idiot I am, why not try to post something constructive? Just a suggestion. --
mechtech Entropy Industries	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:10:00 - [16] Originally by: T'Renn I've got an idea - instead of sitting here telling me what an idiot I am, why not try to post something constructive? Just a suggestion. I recommend a new PSU, but to recommend one, I need your system specs.
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:12:00 - [17] Originally by: T'Renn I'm thinking the video card What in the world could possibly lead to that conclusion, knowing how the EVE client handles calculations for graphics(IE foisted off on the CPU)?
Tzt	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:13:00 - [18] lmfao, you're not alone, EvE is the only game that makes me look at my PC (3.4 dual core, 4 gig 667ram, 512MB 7600GT, raid 0 blah blah blah - way more than EvE needs) and think "something's not right". RTS type games don't do anything to my PC, even FPS games don't make the noise output increase much, but EvE? **, on occasion everything goes nuts (fans hit max, the temps go shooting up) and i feel compelled to exit the game for fear that my PC is gonna go pop, it isn't funny This used to happen all the time on the loading screen, not so much now but still sometimes in game...boom - never, ever with another game. And my PC is not overclocked and i don't OC air cooled rigs anyway, as I need it to last more than a year ;o) i also quickly air dust my PC every week to keep it nice and clean and prevent thermal smeg building up on the surfaces. But yeah...there is a new client coming out soon that will offload graphics on to, you know, our graphics cards** and not the CPU which right now takes a beating, and with the power consumption of some CPU's (mine is 130W max i think?) having strained 100% operation just ain't ideal.
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:13:00 - [19] Originally by: T'Renn I've got an idea - instead of sitting here telling me what an idiot I am, why not try to post something constructive? Just a suggestion. Four people have suggested either a new PSU or to test to see if the PSU is the problem. Thats pretty constructive.
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:14:00 - [20] Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Bo Bojangles Jita killing power supplies? C'mon. Sounds like in the time that you're waiting for Jita to load, you're noticing something going on with your computer that's going on much of the time anyway, but you may not be noticing it because you're doing things. No - the power supply functions fine and within normal heat parameters during normal gameplay and when playing other games. Also, the power supply is not the stock one that came with my case (lol) and at 550W is rated at more than enough to run Eve with my hardware. Watts, volts, I'll fall over dead before I can ever manage to not mix those up no matter how often I check As a certified computer expert, I'm sure you'll agree that if nobody else is experiencing a problem on a video game it's definitely YOUR hardware causing it. T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers \| Eve GUI Tweaks
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:14:00 - [21] I've already replaced the power supply. The heat is still an issue. For my hardware, there's no reason I should need to run a 600w or greater power supply. I do appreciate the suggestions, however. --
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:15:00 - [22] Have you replaced it with the same model, or a totally different kind? T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers \| Eve GUI Tweaks
Bo Bojangles Minmatar High4Life	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:16:00 - [23] Need Power Supply and Vid Card make and model in order to find out what the max amperage draw the video card can demand compared to maximum amperage your PS 12v rail(s) can sustain and do a little math on whatever other components that feed on the 12v rails are consuming.
Illistar DeathWing	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:16:00 - [24] It's not the games fault, it's your hardware. I run my second account on a AMD 1.4gz with 500 ram and a 32meg video card and I do fine in jita. If that computer can handle it and not melt, I'm sure yours under good working conditions should.
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:18:00 - [25] another model entirely, and I'd have to open the case to see the ps model. It's not a worldbeater PS by any means, but the one that already melted and needed to be replaced was a 500w model. Since I took the cover off and misplaced it, I don't remember the manufacturer. --
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:20:00 - [26] Originally by: T'Renn I've already replaced the power supply. The heat is still an issue. For my hardware, there's no reason I should need to run a 600w or greater power supply. I do appreciate the suggestions, however. Get it tested. Or swap out another power supply and see what the result is. If your power supply has so much draw that it overheats and melts, thats the issue. No code in the client is destroying your power supply. Likely you got a faulty replacement, which happens often enough to be taken under consideration. If you need better proof just download a benchmarking program and test your system, there are plenty available. It will give you a better idea of whats going on.
Fkn Arson Ionic Defender Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:23:00 - [27] It must be something with your Power Supply. Running on an older computer here I built myself (back in 2003/4) with only a 480w PS. With two accounts running at the same time sitting in Jita I have no issues. (well, locally ;)
Bo Bojangles Minmatar High4Life	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:23:00 - [28] Originally by: T'Renn another model entirely, and I'd have to open the case to see the ps model. It's not a worldbeater PS by any means, but the one that already melted and needed to be replaced was a 500w model. Since I took the cover off and misplaced it, I don't remember the manufacturer. KK, kind of a dealstopper there. Let us know when you feel like opening up the case to investigate your issue.
Tzt	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Illistar DeathWing It's not the games fault, it's your hardware. I run my second account on a AMD 1.4gz with 500 ram and a 32meg video card and I do fine in jita. If that computer can handle it and not melt, I'm sure yours under good working conditions should. How come no other game makes my PC go quackers? Games whose min spec my PC just about meets. To suggest the current client is not at fault for all the crashing, freezing, lagging, insane CPU/power usage is absurd. It's a pile of **** - which is why CCP are making a new one. Else why would they make a new one.
Eric Bana	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:25:00 - [30] 1) Replace your kettle lead, (give it a PAT test, about 60% fail) 2) Check you PSU brand - a stock unbranded 550W PSU heating past normal temperatures would cause me to reach for my bank card and order a decent PSU. If your PSU is overheating for whatever reason its likey a faulty coil. You CPU/Mainboard will not draw more power than it needs, so a high CPU load when loading jita wouldnt cause any extra strain on the PSU than it would cause in a fleet or any combat in eve. Or running almost any game. If your molex connections are melting internally bin the PSU. Graphic displacements on screen can be caused more likely by a faulty Graphics Card. Usualy faulty RAM or CPU / CPU cache will result in the dreaded BSOD - with an exception error. Check the running temp for the grahpics card - its safe temperature will be set my trhe manufacturer and in the case of Nivida and the 6800 you should have a handy temp checker built into the nvida tool box. It will green light (well within safe) @ a temperature that would fry a CPU, and should green light under a full load). The 100% CPU usage is normal usage with Eve and Windows. I would double check the ventalation for the PSU, fans are spining and free of obstruction - its not backing onto a house radiator for example. Good Luck. (if all else fails try and you are insistant that its a load issue causing it replicate the fault with a CPU tester or GPU testing program - then take it to hardware repair centre (not the monkeys at PC World) and have them check it out, in the interests of not buring your house down)

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