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Eve makes my computer melt... literally.

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Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.09.17 07:47:00 - [91] Originally by: Sleepkevert stuff Moar sour? You are banned from this service, Reason: Don\'t troll CCP in my sig plz... Time remaining: Permanent No, i'm not going to unban you. You know, you only banned my work IP .. I got plenty left from home. Enjoy! Concord offers PUNISHMENT, not protection
solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.09.17 07:49:00 - [92] It's clearly the power cord that's faulty or the socket where it got hot. There is no way the PC can draw enough power to melt the cable.
Ratridevi	Posted - 2007.09.17 07:53:00 - [93] Well first of all, what kind of PSU do you have (model, manufacturer) Most cheap power supply units tend to overheat especially at high CPU usage. As i work as a computer service/waranties supervisor , i can tell you that i've seen quite allot of cheap PSU melted, exploded, burning (with flames even). My advice, go for a ENERMAX power supply. They are the most stable that i ever tested.
Selenica Draper Caldari Nexus Academy	Posted - 2007.09.17 07:55:00 - [94] Most consumer based computers are going to be highly strained if you're running a game on it for hours a day.. My Dell was pretty much done after using it for 3 years to play Star Wars Galaxies =P
solbright altaltaltalt	Posted - 2007.09.17 08:07:00 - [95] Originally by: Selenica Draper Most consumer based computers are going to be highly strained if you're running a game on it for hours a day.. Lol, that sounds like another marketriod myth. Convincing people to throw away even earlier.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.17 08:14:00 - [96] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: CCP Explorer EVE doesn't really use the GPU at all ...except on the login screen and session change screens, where it goes bonkers. For some people at least, apparently. I've certainly noticed that Eve will raise my graphics card temperature above that which it will reach with other games, even though the client is not using the capabilities of the card. However, that may be why it causes the unusual heat levels. These cards are optimized for them to be used with their bells and whistles, and most every other game you're running will be using them in that way. Clearly, while Eve is not using all the nice rendering tricks, it is stressing some part of the graphics card, and a part that isn't used as much with other games. As with most highly-optimized hardware, it's not going to be anywhere like as efficient when asked to do things in a way it's not optimized for. Without vsync on, the "problem" areas can easily freewheel up to several hundred fps on a modern system - something you're unlikely to get with other games (if you can run with that high an fps, you'll turn up the quality settings until the fps comes down to just above playable), which may well be pushing the memory buffers hard. So there are plenty of perfectly good reasons why Eve may cause a different pattern of load on your hardware to other games. But that does not mean that Eve is at fault Eve does not overclock your hardware. All it does is pass standard graphics calls, in standards that these cards are supposedly certified against. If the hardware cannot handle those standard graphics calls, then it's a fault in the hardware, not the application. Originally by: Flamewave One thing I've found is that the framerate during loading screens is exceptionally high, which is an issue a lot of older systems won't have. This can actually overheat your graphics card, as one poster noted that his GPU fan would rev up No. It can stress your graphics card, but if your hardware has adequate cooling, it should not be able to cause it to overheat. If any application causes your hardware to overheat, then it's your hardware that is at fault, not the application. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Malarki X Caldari Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.09.17 08:34:00 - [97] Well - from where Im standing you had 500W PSU. More then enough to power youre system. BUT - you probably had 500w PSU from manufactors like: Task, JNC, some other generic PSU. My sugestion is: buy Corsair, OCZ, Tagan, Enermax PSU. All of these are well known for quality components. You see - if you have something like 500W Task, in reality it can provide 500w on peak and for very, very short time ( ussualy a second - not kidding ). Normaly it can whistand 250W- max ( if even that ) 300w constant pull of power. Brand name 500w PSU must be able to give 400W at all times, more on peak. Things like additional fans can and will take lot of power from PSU. Also - if you are using a system with Peltier cooling - you need an extra PSU just for that ... On other hand its quite possible you had problems with air flow in youre comp. case. Ussualy at least once a month it is needed to vacum inside of computer - especialy vents . Vents and coolers get dirty from dust and they cant perform the way they should. Result is lack of cooling at times you need it most.
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.09.17 08:49:00 - [98] Originally by: T'Renn another model entirely, and I'd have to open the case to see the ps model. It's not a worldbeater PS by any means, but the one that already melted and needed to be replaced was a 500w model. Since I took the cover off and misplaced it, I don't remember the manufacturer. Ok so you removed the cover from the PSU and now you wonder why it overheats? The cover exist for two reasons, to stop people from electricuting themselfs and direct the air from the fans to where it's needed. Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas
Tiger313 313th Squadron	Posted - 2007.09.17 09:50:00 - [99] Blame CCP for they invented HEAT! On a serious note: could it be a combined heat output problem? My bro-in-law had this happen to him cause his computer case just didn't get enough cooling for the stuff he had put in it. He took off the side panel of his computer case and the thing ran fine. Soon as he closed it it started acting up again. He had to replace his PSU and figured he'd get a bigger one this time, but it didn't help any as the bigger PSU generated more heat. Warm air usually ascends, so the PSU could actually fail from overheating where the rest actually still works ok-ish. Maybe this helps any? Never hurts to try.
Falkrich Swifthand	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:46:00 - [100] There are two kinds of psu. "Cheapskate" and "true power". The first are things like "qtec 650W triple fan gold", where more cost went into the glowing fans and the gold paint than the circuits inside. These power supplies typically quote a "peak (<1ms)" power load, instead of what load it can actually sustain. This specific psu I mention actually went bang when a review website attempted to push it to it's advertised wattage. IIRC at 500W it was 50% efficient, pulling 1kW from the wall and losing 500W to heat internally. 500W of heat + Large capacitors and no internal trip switch meant that there was fire involved. I have had several qtec power supplies, and they are liable to die and they try very very hard to destroy your pc when they do. The second group are considerably more expensive, but will survive everything. I now have a "Tagan 480W" psu, it cost about 2.5x what the qtec's did (was ú70, the price has dropped a lot since then). The box has a lower wattage on than the qtec, but this power supply can actually SUSTAIN it's rating. At 480W load it would only pull ~530W from the wall, and it has no trouble getting rid of the heat from the lost 50W.
Helene Ling	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:56:00 - [101] While I'd agree Eve can really suck up your resources, there is no way that any software should be able to overheat your pc, that is always a fault in your hardware configuration.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.09.17 12:11:00 - [102] Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon And this one time, we all lost our service manuals and we were supposed to fix this computer, but we didn't know how to, so we just made up the problem and we kept faking and faking and the customer didn't know what we were doing and it was so funny! Pff, your obviously not in tech support. Reading the service manuals is a sin Unless that loss is 'lost' as in - we burned them/threw them away/used them as emergency toilet paper/shredded them and used them to insulate our line managers PSU Does eve have a really screwy resource usage with significant ,cooling system straining surges? Yes. Should your rig be able to handle this? Yes.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.09.17 12:38:00 - [103] Originally by: Malarki X Well - from where Im standing you had 500W PSU. More then enough to power youre system. BUT - you probably had 500w PSU from manufactors like: Task, JNC, some other generic PSU. My sugestion is: buy Corsair, OCZ, Tagan, Enermax PSU. All of these are well known for quality components. You see - if you have something like 500W Task, in reality it can provide 500w on peak and for very, very short time ( ussualy a second - not kidding ). Normaly it can whistand 250W- max ( if even that ) 300w constant pull of power. Brand name 500w PSU must be able to give 400W at all times, more on peak. Things like additional fans can and will take lot of power from PSU. Also - if you are using a system with Peltier cooling - you need an extra PSU just for that ... On other hand its quite possible you had problems with air flow in youre comp. case. Ussualy at least once a month it is needed to vacum inside of computer - especialy vents . Vents and coolers get dirty from dust and they cant perform the way they should. Result is lack of cooling at times you need it most. QFT. Very well explained. I use an Enermax PSU on my main machine. 400Ws, very well cooled. The PSU manufacturers Malarki X mentioned (like Enermax) are a lot more expensive than no name producers, but worth every cent.
Darrell Winters	Posted - 2007.09.17 16:12:00 - [104] Just to add my 2 cents to this one, I run EVE on a MacBook Pro using Bootcamp and windows XP -- and trust me, MBP's have a habit of breaking fans and overheating something fierce. EVE doesn't give it any problems whatsoever. My 'book has 2Gb of RAM, a Radeon X1600 video card, and I've got EVE installed on an external SATA disk. During loading, sure, CPU usage goes up, and when logging into Jita (did that a few times), the 'book does get hotter than usual. Never leads to crashes or anything else though. If your PSU decides to melt the plastic connector, I suggest you get a more powerful PSU (just as many others have suggested), or make sure the fan in the PSU is still working. The only reason for your PSU to possibly get that hot is either it's broken, or you're asking it to deliver more juice than it can handle. So, instead of brushing everyone off saying you want constructive suggestions, accept the fact you need a new PSU :D
Postlatta Mouseanon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.09.17 16:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon And this one time, we all lost our service manuals and we were supposed to fix this computer, but we didn't know how to, so we just made up the problem and we kept faking and faking and the customer didn't know what we were doing and it was so funny! Pff, your obviously not in tech support. Reading the service manuals is a sin Unless that loss is 'lost' as in - we burned them/threw them away/used them as emergency toilet paper/shredded them and used them to insulate our line managers PSU Does eve have a really screwy resource usage with significant ,cooling system straining surges? Yes. Should your rig be able to handle this? Yes. I'm guessing you haven't seen a movie in the last 15 years.
Jasai Kameron Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.17 17:43:00 - [106] Originally by: Darrell Winters So, instead of brushing everyone off saying you want constructive suggestions, accept the fact you need a new PSU :D I agree. Sounds like the problem is with the computer. There are plenty of games out there more demanding on CPU and etc.
Tzt	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:53:00 - [107] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: Darrell Winters So, instead of brushing everyone off saying you want constructive suggestions, accept the fact you need a new PSU :D I agree. Sounds like the problem is with the computer. There are plenty of games out there more demanding on CPU and etc. which don't make my PC goes bonkers. next!
Obeo	Posted - 2007.09.17 22:31:00 - [108] Any general purpose computer that overheats due to being pushed to 100% is faulty. While the EVE client does appear to stress graphics cards during the environment loading in a properly designed machine this will never be able to cause harm to your hardware. Most PC power supplies are on the order of 70%-90% efficent which means if your power supply is melting then something else in your machine is pulling a huge amount of power. If the graphics card is what is pulling the excess power it should also be dangerously hot. It might be possible that there is a fault in your graphics card. Many graphics cards on the market have the ability to monitor their internal temperature and throttle back when there is an thermal fault. You should check to see if your current card has this diagnostic ability and if it has been enabled. Surge protectors only protect hardware against spikes. The only kind of power fault that would cause a power supply to overheat would be a brownout. Brownouts are usually caused by factors external to your house wiring. This is not a likely problem source.
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.17 22:38:00 - [109] Originally by: Obeo Surge protectors only protect hardware against spikes. The only kind of power fault that would cause a power supply to overheat would be a brownout. Brownouts are usually caused by factors external to your house wiring. This is not a likely problem source. Actually 'dirty' power in general is hard on PSUs, not just brownouts. Regardless thought you can ditch the surge protector and get a cheap UPS to take care of it.
Obeo	Posted - 2007.09.17 22:58:00 - [110] Originally by: Grawshellar Originally by: Obeo Surge protectors only protect hardware against spikes. The only kind of power fault that would cause a power supply to overheat would be a brownout. Brownouts are usually caused by factors external to your house wiring. This is not a likely problem source. Actually 'dirty' power in general is hard on PSUs, not just brownouts. Regardless thought you can ditch the surge protector and get a cheap UPS to take care of it. While 'dirty' power kills a lot of power supplies must of the more common power faults would not cause a power supply to overheat. A good UPS is the only fix for brownouts and overvoltages. Some of the cheap ones don't deal with this kind of fault. I suspect that other symptoms would be seen if these faults were common.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.17 23:26:00 - [111] Originally by: Grawshellar Originally by: Obeo Surge protectors only protect hardware against spikes. The only kind of power fault that would cause a power supply to overheat would be a brownout. Brownouts are usually caused by factors external to your house wiring. This is not a likely problem source. Actually 'dirty' power in general is hard on PSUs, not just brownouts. Regardless thought you can ditch the surge protector and get a cheap UPS to take care of it. I very much doubt that the power supply is failing in that way due to dirty power, though I suppose its possible. (dirty power should just change what the DC waveform looks like to the devices being served by the PSU, unless it went way over 120/240Vrms, in which case the PSU should shut off) Something power wise has failed between the wall and the internal components of the computer. Start replacing things until it works, and if you can't get your computer working, call a licensed electrician to take a look at things. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Onezen	Posted - 2007.09.18 00:46:00 - [112] Your PS has 3 outputs. +3.3V +5V and +12V The +12V line runs your vid card (among other things) what is the amperage spec for the PS you are running for the 12V rail?
Postlatta Mouseanon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.09.18 03:05:00 - [113] Originally by: Onezen Your PS has 3 outputs. +3.3V +5V and +12V The +12V line runs your vid card (among other things) what is the amperage spec for the PS you are running for the 12V rail? I didn;t catch the spec of the machine at the beginning, but who cares. Modern PSU's have 2 or more 12 volt rails designed to independently feed the 12 volt portions of the motherboard, the processor (Usually through voltage step down on the logic board), and the GPU. If you are running single rail, even on a socket 754 Athlon 64, with a modern or semi-modern GPU.... you're toast. Antec Truepower 650 is what I usually recommend.
Usarua	Posted - 2007.09.18 05:45:00 - [114] eve makes my comp melt too, but I dont care cause its a piece of crap anyway. burn in hell and die, stupid laptop
Onezen	Posted - 2007.09.18 06:14:00 - [115] Edited by: Onezen on 18/09/2007 06:15:18 The amperage on the individual lines is very important. Especially the +12V line. I currently use an OCZ 520W power supply. Carries 33 amps on the 12V line. A good power supply is more important then a lot of people realize for a stable system.
Filthy Pierre Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.18 06:55:00 - [116] One thing that might be done is to check what the voltage on the rails is during this time of stress. There are utilities to do this, some provided by the manufacturer of a given motherboard. See if anything is obviously dipping below normal values when that's going on. FP
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.18 09:54:00 - [117] Edited by: Drizit on 18/09/2007 09:54:36 Originally by: T'Renn I'm a certified and educated computer professional - I'm not just guessing here. Being an IT Professional and being a Computer Engineer are two different things. Take it from a qualified Engineer, it sounds like you need a heavier PSU. Even 500W rarely cuts it with many PC's now, especially with more than one HDD. Quote: Edit: Also, to clarify, my computer is NOT overclocked. It is a stock AMD Athlon 64 3000+ running on an asus K8V-SE mainboard with a BFG GeForce 6800 GT AGP video card. That has just verified what I said above this is going to pull a fair bit of wattage already. It is even more of a problem with modern cases with extractor fans mounted, most people forget the power that a constantly running motor pulls. I would suggest you go out and buy at least a 600W PSU. Just remember that next time you upgrade, you will probably have to replace the PSU again so got one as powerful as possible if you don't want to get a new one later. Edit: A qualified engineer that can't spell --
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.18 09:56:00 - [118] this whole thread is an elaborate jita whine which should be locked. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.18 11:02:00 - [119] Just to Stuff my ore in this thread :- I've had a PSU melt my motherboard before now - not running eve mind you - though I did play eve on it ... my thoughts on this [op problem] are 1) eve uses 100% of CPU on the loading screen [well about 49% on my dual core system] - this is normal for eve [and other games TBH] - what it is doing is just running round the system loop as fast as possible with nothing much to do. 2) eve does not push the GPU very hard .. though on the loading screen [and maybe during a session change] it can get back round to the rendering engine part dead fast and start that running again - your fps will go though the roof here - this will probably cause your GFX card to draw as much power as it can handle - well even more sometimes... 3) your PSU getting hot is down to the system drawing more power than the PSU can handle - my bet is the GPU system is doing this 4) things to try :- a) run in windowed mode b) turn SFX off c) on the loading screen run that in the background d) pray e) wait for new engine f) limit your FPS on eve by various means g) run fraps or some other [external] FPS counter and see what it says GL, have fun, and see you in space -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
Amida Ta	Posted - 2007.09.18 11:25:00 - [120] Edited by: Amida Ta on 18/09/2007 11:26:08 Just my 2c: 1) It may be very well possible that the problem you have is triggered by eve. The client isn't well behaved (from a technical point of view: just sucks) and has some VERY strange usage characteristics (resource usage wise). 2) But even IF the client does stress your machine (regardless which part and in which way) 100% your machine shouldn't fail. So if something is getting too hot its a problem of your machine. 3) PSUs don't overheat if Wattage is insufficient. They will make your computer crash or bluescreen, but they will not overheat and melt. If yours does it is defective and should be relaced ASAP, because it poses a real threat.

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