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Oh dear! Yet more global warming :(

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Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Death Kill on 17/09/2007 19:12:52 Quote: Warming hits 'tipping point' Siberia feels the heat It's a frozen peat bog the size of France and Germany combined, contains billions of tonnes of greenhouse gas and, for the first time since the ice age, it is melting A vast expanse of western Sibera is undergoing an unprecedented thaw that could dramatically increase the rate of global warming, climate scientists warn today. Researchers who have recently returned from the region found that an area of permafrost spanning a million square kilometres - the size of France and Germany combined - has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age. The area, which covers the entire sub-Arctic region of western Siberia, is the world's largest frozen peat bog and scientists fear that as it thaws, it will release billions of tonnes of methane, a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide, into the atmosphere. It is a scenario climate scientists have feared since first identifying "tipping points" - delicate thresholds where a slight rise in the Earth's temperature can cause a dramatic change in the environment that itself triggers a far greater increase in global temperatures. The discovery was made by Sergei Kirpotin at Tomsk State University in western Siberia and Judith Marquand at Oxford University and is reported in New Scientist today. The researchers found that what was until recently a barren expanse of frozen peat is turning into a broken landscape of mud and lakes, some more than a kilometre across. Dr Kirpotin told the magazine the situation was an "ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming". He added that the thaw had probably begun in the past three or four years. Climate scientists yesterday reacted with alarm to the finding, and warned that predictions of future global temperatures would have to be revised upwards. "When you start messing around with these natural systems, you can end up in situations where it's unstoppable. There are no brakes you can apply," said David Viner, a senior scientist at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia. "This is a big deal because you can't put the permafrost back once it's gone. The causal effect is human activity and it will ramp up temperatures even more than our emissions are doing." In its last major report in 2001, the intergovernmental panel on climate change predicted a rise in global temperatures of 1.4C-5.8C between 1990 and 2100, but the estimate only takes account of global warming driven by known greenhouse gas emissions. "These positive feedbacks with landmasses weren't known about then. They had no idea how much they would add to global warming," said Dr Viner. Western Siberia is heating up faster than anywhere else in the world, having experienced a rise of some 3C in the past 40 years. Scientists are particularly concerned about the permafrost, because as it thaws, it reveals bare ground which warms up more quickly than ice and snow, and so accelerates the rate at which the permafrost thaws. Siberia's peat bogs have been producing methane since they formed at the end of the last ice age, but most of the gas had been trapped in the permafrost. According to Larry Smith, a hydrologist at the University of California, Los Angeles, the west Siberian peat bog could hold some 70bn tonnes of methane, a quarter of all of the methane stored in the ground around the world. The permafrost is likely to take many decades at least to thaw, so the methane locked within it will not be released into the atmosphere in one burst, said Stephen Sitch, a climate scientist at the Met Office's Hadley Centre in Exeter. Great! 70 years of greenhouse gasses relased in a short amount of time. Guardian STAND OUT!
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:15:00 - [2] What's even worse is that plenty of people still believe that global warming is fictional. If I remember correctly, we've got about 30 years to make serious corrections before it becomes impossible for humans to prevent a major climate change. It's probably closer to 25 now...
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:19:00 - [3] Originally by: Thanos Draicon What's even worse is that plenty of people still believe that global warming is fictional. If I remember correctly, we've got about 30 years to make serious corrections before it becomes impossible for humans to prevent a major climate change. It's probably closer to 25 now... Over dramaticized rather than fictional. We have more to fear from our nuclear powerplants waste than we do from the CO2 we release from combustion. Hell, all the cows in the world release approximately 1/5th of the worlds entire greenhouse gases. Cows ffs. If it ever comes down to it, we'll make artificial ozone and dump it into the atmosphere. But thats a real big if.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:32:00 - [4] I'm doing my part! I'm eating those evil cows Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking Originally by: TheDagda click For the love of the jovians stops necroing
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Thanos Draicon What's even worse is that plenty of people still believe that global warming is fictional. If I remember correctly, we've got about 30 years to make serious corrections before it becomes impossible for humans to prevent a major climate change. It's probably closer to 25 now... I belive we passed that point in the 90's. all we can do now is damage controll. STAND OUT!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:35:00 - [6] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Over dramaticized rather than fictional. We have more to fear from our nuclear powerplants waste than we do from the CO2 we release from combustion. Mmmmm no I must disagree. Besides Chernobyl nuclear waste havent been that much of a problem. Increased flooding, drought and the strength of hurricanes due to global warming on the otherhand is. Quote: Hell, all the cows in the world release approximately 1/5th of the worlds entire greenhouse gases. Cows ffs. If it ever comes down to it, we'll make artificial ozone and dump it into the atmosphere. But thats a real big if. Bring on Captain Planet. I loved that game on my old amiga 500+. Imagine, already back then the ozone layer was an issue. STAND OUT!
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:39:00 - [7] Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 17/09/2007 19:40:07 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Thanos Draicon What's even worse is that plenty of people still believe that global warming is fictional. If I remember correctly, we've got about 30 years to make serious corrections before it becomes impossible for humans to prevent a major climate change. It's probably closer to 25 now... Over dramaticized rather than fictional. We have more to fear from our nuclear powerplants waste than we do from the CO2 we release from combustion. Hell, all the cows in the world release approximately 1/5th of the worlds entire greenhouse gases. Cows ffs. If it ever comes down to it, we'll make artificial ozone and dump it into the atmosphere. But thats a real big if. I disagree - already we're seeing huge temperature increases (relative to a historical timescale) in many parts of the world, and these changes are already having significant impact on the plant and animal life in the areas. 5 degrees doesn't seem like a lot, but if the temperature of an entire continent or region increases by five degrees, it could lead to mass extinctions. In addition, if this occurs in any areas responsible for producing food supplies (think the Great Plains in the US) we could see massive shortages show up too quickly for local damage control to be much use. And those are just the effects of global warming on a relatively local scale, there are plenty of side effects that we can't anticipate, and I don't see any of them being especially positive. Now might be a good time to buy up some tundra though.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:39:00 - [8] Edited by: DarkMatter on 17/09/2007 19:41:04 Global warming is all about scare tactics... We're not going to kill the planet. We may make it tough for some species to live on this planet, but the Earth will be just fine... Everyone just calm down... Quote: I disagree - already we're seeing huge temperature increases (relative to a historical timescale) in many parts of the world Ice ages have ~60,000 years cylces, we're pretty much 30,000 removed fome the last cold peak. No, of course that has nothing to do with the warmer temps, lol... My Current Project
Asperger Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Over dramaticized rather than fictional. We have more to fear from our nuclear powerplants waste than we do from the CO2 we release from combustion. Hell, all the cows in the world release approximately 1/5th of the worlds entire greenhouse gases. Cows ffs. If it ever comes down to it, we'll make artificial ozone and dump it into the atmosphere. But thats a real big if. Actually nuclear fission is far the cleanest and secure technology we can practically do, except fusion. Breeder reactors produce much less radioactive material and they have a much smaller halflife than traditional reactors (~100 years vs. ~10000). Cows do release CO2, but the location CO2 gets released matters a lot. This decreases the seriousness of the cow contribution and increases in the case of airplanes and concentrated sources (industry, cities). CO2 has nothing to do with ozone. Ozone filters harmful ultraviolet light that would enter the lower atmosphere otherwise. Ozone is _also_ a greenhouse gas, so dumping it into the atmosphere would increase our problems. The term greenhouse effect is a bit of a misnomer because the effect is different from the one that warms real greenhouses. You can read about it here.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:41:00 - [10] Originally by: DarkMatter Global warming is all about scare tactics... We're not going to kill the planet. We may make it tough for some species to live on this planet, but the Earth will be just fine... Everyone just calm down... Earth may be fine, but I want my kids to be fine too.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: DarkMatter Global warming is all about scare tactics... We're not going to kill the planet. We may make it tough for some species to live on this planet, but the Earth will be just fine... Everyone just calm down... Earth may be fine, but I want my kids to be fine too. Your kids will be just fine... Now, some species of frogs & such, not so fine... But they will be replaced with T2 frogs, so all the better IMO... My Current Project
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:49:00 - [12] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 17/09/2007 19:41:04 Global warming is all about scare tactics... In passing across Florida, Katrina weakened to a tropical storm; however, the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico allowed it to rapidly intensify to the sixth strongest Atlantic hurricane in recorded history. Global warming is nothing to be worried about? The consequences will only increase. Quote: We're not going to kill the planet. No but most likaly the planet will kill us. STAND OUT!
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:53:00 - [13] this reminds me of dominion tank police: a genetically engineered sexy girl made to suck up all the nastyness we make. thats actually all we need. lift the ban on genetic engineering already!!!! couldnt we create human skin incorporating chlorophyl? after a hundred years of testing :-) of course it would be easier to make a microbe that neutraliwes radioactive waste, and one that reduces Co2 impact. genetics FTW! ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 17/09/2007 19:41:04 Global warming is all about scare tactics... In passing across Florida, Katrina weakened to a tropical storm; however, the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico allowed it to rapidly intensify to the sixth strongest Atlantic hurricane in recorded history. Global warming is nothing to be worried about? The consequences will only increase. Quote: We're not going to kill the planet. No but most likaly the planet will kill us. There could have been hurricanes 10X worse than that 90,000 years ago, but no one was here to catalog that now were they? Global warming is a theory, just like the Big Bang... There is insufficient data to call global warming a 100% truth. Until every person in the world who makes more money than me sacrifices personal wealth in the name of global warming, I will not change how I live on this planet. That's the bottom line... If you want to be an eco-masochist, by all means, go right ahead. I'll watch... My Current Project
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:55:00 - [15] Create humans with an IQ of 100000. Perhaps they could solve the problems of the world better than we can.....our record sucks. STAND OUT!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:59:00 - [16] Originally by: DarkMatter There could have been hurricanes 10X worse than that 90,000 years ago, but no one was here to catalog that now were they? Actually you are wrong. By drilling ice cores out of the North pole we can pretty much see how the climate was more than 100000 years back. Quote: Global warming is a theory, just like the Big Bang... No. Global warming is a fact. Quote: There is insufficient data to call global warming a 100% truth. this is correct. But its 'most likaly' or 90%. That means only a person that doesnt think logical will say otherwise. Quote: Until every person in the world who makes more money than me sacrifices personal wealth in the name of global warming, I will not change how I live on this planet. That's the bottom line... You are irrelevant. As long as we got polluting factories, coal plants, de-forrestation, and what not problems will only increase. I have to say thought for the record, you are being incredible selfish. Quote: If you want to be an eco-masochist, by all means, go right ahead. I'll watch... Sad but true. Do you have kids? Your grandparents will thank you as they suffer. It might be enough to make you turn your grave dunno. STAND OUT!
rhumbline Caldari toxicology	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:05:00 - [17] Hurricanes or tropical revolving storms are fine by me, they only appear in the band between 10 degrees north and south or so. I live way above that..so no worries. Ok im being facetious a bit. Must admit to noticing that weather in the north sea has generally had larger periods of really,really bad weather than 17 years ago. True it's a personal view, but winters up there aren't much fun, and they seem to be longer, and more violent. Article isnt of use in this topic, but check the piccy in the top right hand corner http://ioc.unesco.org/gpsbulletin/GPS1&2/Vol1article.htm
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:08:00 - [18] Quote: You are irrelevant. As long as we got polluting factories, coal plants, de-forrestation, and what not problems will only increase. I have to say thought for the record, you are being incredible selfish. Say that to every person on the planet who's lifestyle depends on all those coal plants & deforestation... Ice cores will NOT tell you the whole story, that ICE has not been there for 4.5 billion years... Having only recent data is simply not enough... Humans are for sure contributing, but NO ONE knows how much we are contributing to climate change. It simply cannot be proven. So until there are environmental laws to force change, I will not change out of the goodness of my heart when most people out there telling us to change create more of the problem than I do... My Current Project
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:14:00 - [19] Originally by: DarkMatter Ice cores will NOT tell you the whole story, that ICE has not been there for 4.5 billion years... Correct. 4.5 billion years ago the planet was a ball of hot lava. STAND OUT!
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:19:00 - [20] Edited by: DarkMatter on 17/09/2007 20:19:32 Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: DarkMatter Ice cores will NOT tell you the whole story, that ICE has not been there for 4.5 billion years... Correct. 4.5 billion years ago the planet was a ball of hot lava. Ok, 4.2 billion years then... ICE cores only tell "recent" climate changes... Either way, humans are already moving past the hydrocarbon gorging stages of humanity, or are aware that we have to... Don't worry, the planet is not going to kill everything off in the time from this point until we no longer burn fossil fuels... You can worry about it all you want, but it's simply not going to happen. We'd have better odds of getting wiped out by a killer asteroid... My Current Project
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:21:00 - [21] i thought 'global warming' was just human actions speeding up the natural change in the earths temperature
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:22:00 - [22] Originally by: MassonA i thought 'global warming' was just human actions speeding up the natural change in the earths temperature Some want to scare you into thinking it's much more than that... My Current Project
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:28:00 - [23] this statement by DM is the core of the matter, for both this thread and the oil thread, and I quote: "Either way, humans are already moving past the hydrocarbon gorging stages of humanity, or are aware that we have to..." first baby steps have been made only in the past 10 years. I hope we get there. how does a species survive technological adolescence... lets find out! ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Tzt	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: DarkMatter Ice cores will NOT tell you the whole story, that ICE has not been there for 4.5 billion years... Correct. 4.5 billion years ago the planet was a ball of hot lava. so global warming was worse 4.5billion yers ago then?!! thus invaldiating your arguement that global warming is getting worse now!
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:52:00 - [25] Originally by: MassonA i thought 'global warming' was just human actions speeding up the natural change in the earths temperature Technically, but we're reaching a point where climate change is being influenced much more by humans. As a result, these changes are snowballing (no pun intended, heh) out of our control, and will eventually have a major impact on human life. According to a recent source (An article in Time magazine, I believe) we have approximately 30 years to make major reductions in our greenhouse gas emissions and take proactive measures to slow climate change. If we don't do that, we've got a hundred years to adapt before very large climate changes come about.
Bosie Caldari Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:01:00 - [26] It's all about taking things like luxury cars and air travel away from the masses and keeping them in the hands of the elite. Them big luxury cars/airplanes pump out lots of gases, no let's not ban them just make them very expensive to run. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is EN
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:04:00 - [27] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 17/09/2007 21:07:04 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Thanos Draicon What's even worse is that plenty of people still believe that global warming is fictional. If I remember correctly, we've got about 30 years to make serious corrections before it becomes impossible for humans to prevent a major climate change. It's probably closer to 25 now... Over dramaticized rather than fictional. We have more to fear from our nuclear powerplants waste than we do from the CO2 we release from combustion. Hell, all the cows in the world release approximately 1/5th of the worlds entire greenhouse gases. Cows ffs. If it ever comes down to it, we'll make artificial ozone and dump it into the atmosphere. But thats a real big if. I diagree. I reckon nuclear radiation is overdramtized. You could run your house on nuclear waste and not feel any radiation effects. The real fear of nuclear waste is cancer, the irony is oxides are the worst carcinogen about. 1/3 of all cancers are caused breathing oxygen. Most of the creatures on this planet have several generations compared to out one. If you look at chernobyl you will see the natural world is reclaiming the area and thriving due to the absence of human beings with their "cancer fears". People fear dying. In fact James Lovelock suggested dumping our nuclear waste into the rainforest as a deterrant to people going there. The rainforest would just carry on regardless as the thread from the radiation is miniscule compared to humans chopping the lot down. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A blog of truth (not mine)
Hellraiza666 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:06:00 - [28] Global warming happens naturally, the only difference this time is its happening slightly faster than normal, relax. Originally by: CYVOK ...Very Disappointed, I spent 2 years building a pile of ****. -CYVOK-
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Hellraiza666 Global warming happens naturally, the only difference this time is its happening slightly faster than normal, relax. Actually 3 degrees Celsius in 40 years is approximately ten thousand times faster, and 2-5 degrees Celsius in a hundred years is a few thousand times faster.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Hellraiza666 Global warming happens naturally, the only difference this time is its happening slightly faster than normal, relax. Not just faster, the concentration of co2 in the earths atmosphere atm is higher than it's been for 600,000 years according to the ice record. We are talking about co2 that has been trapped for 300 million years + being liberated back into the earths systems. A supervolcanoe eruption is enough to shift the earths climate for a decade or more, you don't need to be a genius to see that fossil fuel emissions account for the release of millions of years of carbon sequestation, including that carbon emitted from said volcanoes. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A blog of truth (not mine)

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