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Why are t2 bpos still in the game?

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RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:12:00 - [31] Edited by: RaTTuS on 20/09/2007 11:12:56 Damn forums ate my post -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:31:00 - [32] Personally i think Invention was released too soon. CCP should have waited until the game needed another tech lvl. Thus making T2 BPO's available on the NPC market and a high cost of course and then release Invention for use on T2 BPO's making the next generation of equipment that would rival or surpass the best Officer loot.
Eldon Rosen	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:57:00 - [33] In an ideal world the t2 bpos in game would be converted to long run bpc's and the t2 lottery would start up again dishing out a controlled number of t2 bpcs, however I doubt this could ever be done, I don't own any t2 bpos but if I did and I payed a lot for it I'd be mighty ****ed at losing the bpo...
Bongolus Gallente Black Sheep Enterprises Spear 0f Destiny	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Brisi Edited by: Brisi on 20/09/2007 10:12:07 Originally by: Laboratus T2 BPOs provide a low production cost base supply for T2 items. Those in combination with the higher production cost invention items provide you with the low cost T2 market of the day... Take away the base supply, and the prices will skyrocket like never before... Quoted for emphasis. Please read this carefully. And btw, I did research myself and never got a BPO either. The lottery was a joke and invention was the way to fix it, and fixed it has been. So you want the BPO's to disappear out of pure envy? Oh buhu, grow up please. People worked their asses off to buy those bpo's, and now they've paid billions for them, should they just let them go because you're ****y about not getting one? If you think that the people with the BPO's now are the people who won them in the lottery, you're mistaken. Some people might have kept theirs, but the vast majority of tech II bpo's have switched hands at least once. I've never won the 55 million dollar jackpot in real life either, but I am really envious of the people who have, so lets remove their prices to make me feel better? According to that logic, prices must have went up when inventions came into the game... To tell you the primary rule of market economy. If there's more demand than supply prices will go up and vice versa. Quiet simple, isn't it? Lets look what this will mean for the t2 market. If there is more demand than supply, prices will go up. With high prices more player will invent, 'cause envy and jealous as they are, they want their share of the cake. More inventions will raise the supply and this will lower the price. -------------------------------------------------- Rule the hell or serve in heaven!
Gaia Thorn Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:29:00 - [35] Well doing a similar comparisson is if the t2 bpo owners start whingeing about invention should be nerf since it's killing there sales. You guys are flooding the market with inferior bpc's at almost no cost which drives down our prices. So im gonna start a new thread for nerfing Invention cause everyone can do it and it destroys the t2 market.
EliteSlave Minmatar Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:32:00 - [36] Oh how i love my Deimos, Ishtar, and Ogre II bpo's.... i print roughly 3.5b a week.. ;)
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Gaia Thorn Well doing a similar comparisson... Not similar at all.
Veng3ance New Dawn Rising The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:46:00 - [38] So your saying all those people who bought T2 BPO's with hard earned money should just have their ISK taken away from them? You do realize most BPO holders did not win them in the lottery, but bought them. I personally have almost enough ISK to be in those BPO bid wars. And I never earned a damn cent of it through other BPO's, trading, ratting, plexes, etc etc. Are you saying if I bought one of these BPO's I should just lose all my isk after CCP nerfs BPO;s like you request? Yeah ok.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:54:00 - [39] Like i said, it's a **** sandwich and somebody somewhere is going to end up eating it
Wizzkidy Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Veng3ance So your saying all those people who bought T2 BPO's with hard earned money should just have their ISK taken away from them? You do realize most BPO holders did not win them in the lottery, but bought them. I personally have almost enough ISK to be in those BPO bid wars. And I never earned a damn cent of it through other BPO's, trading, ratting, plexes, etc etc. Are you saying if I bought one of these BPO's I should just lose all my isk after CCP nerfs BPO;s like you request? Yeah ok. So what? You spent billions on BPO's your own fault - if they change it too bad, things change in this game all the time - u cannot use "i spent xxx on these so they shouldnt change it" Thats stupid and thats your own fault. change them to BPC's is needs to be done
Gaia Thorn Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Wizzkidy Originally by: Veng3ance So your saying all those people who bought T2 BPO's with hard earned money should just have their ISK taken away from them? You do realize most BPO holders did not win them in the lottery, but bought them. I personally have almost enough ISK to be in those BPO bid wars. And I never earned a damn cent of it through other BPO's, trading, ratting, plexes, etc etc. Are you saying if I bought one of these BPO's I should just lose all my isk after CCP nerfs BPO;s like you request? Yeah ok. So what? You spent billions on BPO's your own fault - if they change it too bad, things change in this game all the time - u cannot use "i spent xxx on these so they shouldnt change it" Thats stupid and thats your own fault. change them to BPC's is needs to be done Why does it need to be done ? THe t2 prices have gone down the drain since invention which was it's meaning ! You are just to lazy to work for something you want.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:26:00 - [42] Originally by: Wizzkidy Originally by: Veng3ance So your saying all those people who bought T2 BPO's with hard earned money should just have their ISK taken away from them? You do realize most BPO holders did not win them in the lottery, but bought them. I personally have almost enough ISK to be in those BPO bid wars. And I never earned a damn cent of it through other BPO's, trading, ratting, plexes, etc etc. Are you saying if I bought one of these BPO's I should just lose all my isk after CCP nerfs BPO;s like you request? Yeah ok. So what? You spent billions on BPO's your own fault - if they change it too bad, things change in this game all the time - u cannot use "i spent xxx on these so they shouldnt change it" Thats stupid and thats your own fault. change them to BPC's is needs to be done So you would be ok, if they changed your wallet to -20Bil isk? You'd be just like, "too bad"? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:53:00 - [43] To the ISK Protectorate agents: They nerfed Titans. Should Titan pilots, therefore, be refunded x billion ISK? No? In that case, what's wrong with altering T2 BPOs? This game constantly changes. Adapt or die.
Jimi Tetro	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:00:00 - [44] The only way ccp could remove the t2 bpo's would be to turn them into stupidly high run BPC's i.e 5 to 10 years of constant runs. Some people have payed 50-100bil for their bpo's - It is simply unjust to take that away. I dont see the reason for the stupid t2 bpo whining that has re-appeared lately, the t2 bpo's have a finite build capability, means the profits are limited. i.e a HAC bpo might be capabable of building 20 HAC's a month, while an inventor will be able to easily build 20 HAC's in a week and make significantly more isk than the bpo owner due to volume. t2 bpo's were nerfed with invention, i see no real reason to remove them.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:03:00 - [45] My question is, Since for example passive tanking drakes were nerfed for being too effective, should anyone who has gotten this unintended advantage from this, should that isk, loyalty points and what ever was bought with it be removed? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:06:00 - [46] Why not? DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Laboratus My question is, Since for example passive tanking drakes were nerfed for being too effective, should anyone who has gotten this unintended advantage from this, should that isk, loyalty points and what ever was bought with it be removed? No, but should their Drake be grandfathered in to a permanent state of HAXX? If not, why should T2 BPO holders have a permanent supply of profit sans risk?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:21:00 - [48] Employees of CCP own some of them. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Gaia Thorn Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Amarria Black To the ISK Protectorate agents: They nerfed Titans. Should Titan pilots, therefore, be refunded x billion ISK? No? In that case, what's wrong with altering T2 BPOs? This game constantly changes. Adapt or die. Are you for real ? Are you comparing shooting a DDD device from a different system nerf to making bpo's a limited run ? A more correct comparison would be that the titan only has 5 shoots then it becomes unable to fire forever.
Jimi Tetro	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Gaia Thorn Are you for real ? Are you comparing shooting a DDD device from a different system nerf to making bpo's a limited run ? AFAIK Titans have never been able to fire a DDD from a different system.
Irob Urore Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:07:00 - [51] bring back the lottery and f&@&!@ invention off, problem solved. When the new tech level is going to be introduced make that invention only.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:19:00 - [52] Originally by: Amarria Black If not, why should T2 BPO holders have a permanent supply of profit sans risk? Without risk? And the people who got it through that method are most likely no longer the owners of the BPOS... Have you heard about the concept of cost of capital? Quite a few BPOs have changed hands, and are an asset worth billions. Those same assets in T1 market, could accumulate comperable amounts of isk. Or, say in trading, or for example moon mining, or reactions, or perhaps T2 component production. Or even invention. For example ship bpos of popular ships were sold in the region of 25-75B (ishtar and cerbie for what I found on forum auctions). You can run a production operation through invention with as many ships produced in any given time with a significantly smaller starting capital. For example, a well designed reaction operation has about 4b starting capital (providing good moons) and can produce about 40% profit per month. If you run, say 20 of these operations with the price of one T2 BPO, you are gonna get a lot more return for your investment than with the production of T2 BPO parts. 0.0 trading I did usually had a 30% markup, and the general sell time for equipment was about 10 days, so you do the math on annual profit on that one... It is certainly not without risk, and not the best way of investing your isk. It has low risks, but also does not have the same returns as the more riskier endavours... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Wendat Huron Leave the T2 BPOs as they are, soon enough there will be T3 for you to whine about. This man speaks wisely about the future. Soon, T2 will fade into a relatively quiet senescence, and people can then neurose about who's ox is gored with T3 print distributionan. Still, the best example of how not to do it is the T1 major ship market. Now, that's broken. G -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:59:00 - [54] Originally by: Bongolus i just found this threat: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=594761 1.) Occator BPO ME10 PE5 current bid 15 b 2.) Magnetic Field Stabilizer 2 BPO ME1 PE7 current bid 17 b How can one make so many money that he can spend 15 or 17 billion for a single bpo, without owning at least one t2 bpo himself? you do know that you can make 10+ billion in this game per month playing alone and not doing anything against the EULA or selling GTCs or owning any T2 BPOs? making you be able to afford a T2 BPO in just 2 months of playing should you need one? some people are resourceful enough and have enough time to devote to playing EVE that they can make large sums of ISK without ever getting involved with any T2 production or being vet members in some old established corp - so stop blaming all the riches on T2 BPO owners as if there is nothing else to do in the game to afford to pay 17 b guide to game time codes
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:39:00 - [55] Originally by: Jimi Tetro The only way ccp could remove the t2 bpo's would be to turn them into stupidly high run BPC's i.e 5 to 10 years of constant runs. Some people have payed 50-100bil for their bpo's - It is simply unjust to take that away. I dont see the reason for the stupid t2 bpo whining that has re-appeared lately, the t2 bpo's have a finite build capability, means the profits are limited. i.e a HAC bpo might be capabable of building 20 HAC's a month, while an inventor will be able to easily build 20 HAC's in a week and make significantly more isk than the bpo owner due to volume. t2 bpo's were nerfed with invention, i see no real reason to remove them. It is very simple: a lot of inventor have discovered that they aren't printing isk and so as it is not their fault (for being late in invention, picking the wrong item, having too high aspectations and so on) the culprit should be the bad T2 BPO holders. It seem most of them were aspecting the same return that the hulk gave for all the invented T2, so, as we aren't getting that kind of return, someone is siphoning them off, and that someone must be a T2 BPO holder.
Evenfall Phoenix The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Eldon Rosen In an ideal world the t2 bpos in game would be converted to long run bpc's and the t2 lottery would start up again dishing out a controlled number of t2 bpcs, however I doubt this could ever be done, I don't own any t2 bpos but if I did and I payed a lot for it I'd be mighty ****ed at losing the bpo... I very much like the idea of there being a BPC T2 lottery. That might help balance things a little bit. Yet at the same time invention is still struggling. A better idea would be making invention actually be successful as well as giving inventors the actual percentage chance of an invention attempt working. I do agree that T2 BPOs need to be converted to high run BPCs. Yeah people are going to moan about it, but how is that any different than what CCP is doing to mineral compression, many of the same alliances that hold T2 BPOs put alot of investment into compressing minerals, and CCP is doing away with that.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.09.21 05:53:00 - [57] Originally by: El'Niaga Depends, some things are just not viable to invent because the t2 bpo holders have just lowered their prices on some items to the point there is no way to recover your loss. Tell me. . . if a module has such a low markup over base materials that the cost of 0.8 datacores per run (assuming 50% success, max run T1 BPC and enough runs that streaks average out) and a 50% increase in material cost per run makes inventing it a losing proposition, what level of profit are you making with a BPO of this that only makes 20 a day? Not markup, profit. 16 Datacores (4 attempts, enough for those 20 runs, again assume max Run T1 BPCs and success averaged over time) plus half the material costs won't add up to much. . . You'd get more money running L4s in a Raven. I am dead serious, I make a better markup on some T1 BPOs than some T2 BPOs would get. Nerf T1 BPOs. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 09:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Irob Urore bring back the lottery and f&@&!@ invention off, problem solved. When the new tech level is going to be introduced make that invention only. But I LIKE having affordable tech2 items. When we had BPOs, Cap Charger IIs were 12M. Now they're 2M. 110M hulks are good too. I realise that a few BPO owners having their huge ISK fountains reduced to mere ISK taps is the worst and most unjust tragedy in history, but on the other side of the equation, the other 99% of players have benefited hugely. I don't make stuff: I buy it and get it blown up. From my point of view, Invention has been a huge success because now T2 stuff is cheaper and more widely available. Any proposal to restore the old T2 lottery has to contain something to counteract the probability that I'll be paying 5x as much for stuff in order to persaude me. A T2 BPO lottery with no competition from invention is real nice for that one guy who gets it. What's in it for me? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.21 09:53:00 - [59] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Irob Urore bring back the lottery and f&@&!@ invention off, problem solved. When the new tech level is going to be introduced make that invention only. But I LIKE having affordable tech2 items. When we had BPOs, Cap Charger IIs were 12M. Now they're 2M. 110M hulks are good too. I realise that a few BPO owners having their huge ISK fountains reduced to mere ISK taps is the worst and most unjust tragedy in history, but on the other side of the equation, the other 99% of players have benefited hugely. I don't make stuff: I buy it and get it blown up. From my point of view, Invention has been a huge success because now T2 stuff is cheaper and more widely available. Any proposal to restore the old T2 lottery has to contain something to counteract the probability that I'll be paying 5x as much for stuff in order to persaude me. A T2 BPO lottery with no competition from invention is real nice for that one guy who gets it. What's in it for me? Most of the people in this and the similar thread want the disapparence of all the T2 BPO, possibly immediatlely and without compensation. The most kind think that turniing them in BPC with a high number of runs could be acceptable. What they will not accept is that a similar move, while it will have little or no effect on the price of the items currently woth inventing, will have a heavy negative effect on the prices of the items that currently have a low price and it is not worth inventing, those item where the BPO production is higher than the demand and where a BPO owner has problem selling his wares if the price is not kept low. Removing those BPO will increase the production cost by x3-5 (probably even more for some item) and as almost no one will buy at those prices, a good range of items will become extremly rare. Some good example can be all the small and medium guns, light missile launchers, rocket launchers and assault missile launchers.
Lady Beauvoir Slutty Witches	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:36:00 - [60] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Irob Urore bring back the lottery and f&@&!@ invention off, problem solved. When the new tech level is going to be introduced make that invention only. But I LIKE having affordable tech2 items. When we had BPOs, Cap Charger IIs were 12M. Now they're 2M. 110M hulks are good too. I realise that a few BPO owners having their huge ISK fountains reduced to mere ISK taps is the worst and most unjust tragedy in history, but on the other side of the equation, the other 99% of players have benefited hugely. I don't make stuff: I buy it and get it blown up. From my point of view, Invention has been a huge success because now T2 stuff is cheaper and more widely available. Any proposal to restore the old T2 lottery has to contain something to counteract the probability that I'll be paying 5x as much for stuff in order to persaude me. A T2 BPO lottery with no competition from invention is real nice for that one guy who gets it. What's in it for me? Most of the people in this and the similar thread want the disapparence of all the T2 BPO, possibly immediatlely and without compensation. The most kind think that turniing them in BPC with a high number of runs could be acceptable. What they will not accept is that a similar move, while it will have little or no effect on the price of the items currently woth inventing, will have a heavy negative effect on the prices of the items that currently have a low price and it is not worth inventing, those item where the BPO production is higher than the demand and where a BPO owner has problem selling his wares if the price is not kept low. Removing those BPO will increase the production cost by x3-5 (probably even more for some item) and as almost no one will buy at those prices, a good range of items will become extremly rare. Some good example can be all the small and medium guns, light missile launchers, rocket launchers and assault missile launchers. This. Would you invent the T2 light drones I'm building currently, with 20k ISK profit per unit when built with a BPO? Or perhaps my T2 150mm light autocannons, with about 30k profit per unit when built from a BPO (now that I've driven the prices down in Jita)? If you would, why won't you invent these now? There's heaps of ISK just waiting, come and invent! You wouldn't, it's not profitable. Period. The reason these items exists at relatively low prices is the existence of T2 BPOs. If you would like to pay at least double the price on most T2 items, feel free. "Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaet point." -Blaise Pascal, PensTes, 4, 277

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