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Scav Silver
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 06:42:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Scav Silver on 24/09/2007 06:43:46
WOW.. Poc is fine at it's role.. W/ the Dual cap bonus and T1 crystals, it's perfect for killin' poses.. I laugh at ppl screamin' for ammo..
But other than that, pretty much useless.. Ya can use it for support purposes and long battle engagements (good luck w/ that these days)..
And anybody who uses a poc for minin', should just die now..
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"Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=-
"Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=- |
Raekone
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Posted - 2007.09.24 07:19:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Raekone on 24/09/2007 07:20:02
lol you people, you're like "OK so maybe the apoc's good for atacking POSes, support/repping roles, mining, tanking and a few other things - especially anything that needs lots of cap BUT OTHER THAN THAT TI SUCKZ OMFG FIXC!Q"
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Scav Silver
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 07:56:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Scav Silver on 24/09/2007 08:00:01
Edited by: Scav Silver on 24/09/2007 07:57:07
 Originally by: Raekone
Edited by: Raekone on 24/09/2007 07:20:02
lol you people, you're like "OK so maybe the apoc's good for atacking POSes, support/repping roles, mining, tanking and a few other things - especially anything that needs lots of cap BUT OTHER THAN THAT TI SUCKZ OMFG FIXC!Q"
OK.. Find a notable fightin' role that shines above the other bs or even the geddon or the abaddon..
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"Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=-
"Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=- |
Raekone
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Posted - 2007.09.24 08:03:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Scav Silver
Edited by: Scav Silver on 24/09/2007 07:57:07
Originally by: Raekone
Edited by: Raekone on 24/09/2007 07:20:02
lol you people, you're like "OK so maybe the apoc's good for atacking POSes, support/repping roles, mining, tanking and a few other things - especially anything that needs lots of cap BUT OTHER THAN THAT TI SUCKZ OMFG FIXC!Q"
OK.. Find a notable fightin' role that shines above the other bs or even the geddon or the abaddon..
WHY? If the Abaddon and Arma are better at blasting things to pieces use them for the shooting. Use the apoc for other things, like mining, repping or aything cap intense or whatever, I don't see the problem. It has more cap than any other battleship in EVE for god's sake, use your imagination.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.09.24 08:15:00 -
[65]
I had a T2 fitted Apoc (tank wise) tanking 4 or 5 BS on SISI. And I still managed to kill a Raven with my AC's.
The Apoc isn't bad, as long as it doesn't use lasers to kill people with  .
Did the same with the Abaddon 
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 10:32:00 -
[66]
jsut give it 30 more CPU and enough PG to fit 8 tachyons with only 1 PG mod then you will have a very valid role for it.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Jasai Kameron
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.24 11:09:00 -
[67]
I always thought they should increase the 10% to laser cap use to a 15% bonus, just for the sheer novelty of having an Amarr laser boat without cap problems.
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Mrski Okupator
Amarr
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.24 11:41:00 -
[68]
So, in order for the apoc to actually work I should either use it for mining and repair; the Hulks mining bieside me I suppose. I can't even make myself flame the posters suggesting this.
Fitting with AC's? Blasters? Fine, so change it's laser cap use bonus to support one of the above. That too is called overhaul. Although most Amarr players, myself included, would loathe the idea (not that I haven't done it, I just feel dirty for doing it. acually for having to do it).
Droneboat? Nooo Gods forbid Amarrians tread in gallente teritorry. Torpship? As essencially useless torps are, it would at least let us rat something other then sansha. And provide some variety. Please?
___
Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven.
What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez. |
fuze
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Posted - 2007.09.24 12:34:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
jsut give it 30 more CPU and enough PG to fit 8 tachyons with only 1 PG mod then you will have a very valid role for it.
How about using an implant with cpu reduction on turrets and power rig for larger PG?
The real problem is that lasers aren't cutting it atm. You need cruises/drones badly to make up for the DPS. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.24 12:57:00 -
[70]
Originally by: fuze
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
jsut give it 30 more CPU and enough PG to fit 8 tachyons with only 1 PG mod then you will have a very valid role for it.
How about using an implant with cpu reduction on turrets and power rig for larger PG?
The real problem is that lasers aren't cutting it atm. You need cruises/drones badly to make up for the DPS.
Even so you cannot Fit 8 Tachyons without 2 RCU II
If it was able to fit * tachyons and still have MWD 3 free mids and 6 free low slots. THEN it would be a very good fleet ship. Since it would be able to fire in looong engagements.
Tachyons are the only lasers with GOOD atributes. but they are so hard to fit.
LAsers could also receive a bit of extra Thermal damage, 5% more damage on lasers (on all laser crystals) would be a good start.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Scav Silver
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.24 13:00:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Raekone
WHY? If the Abaddon and Arma are better at blasting things to pieces use them for the shooting. Use the apoc for other things, like mining, repping or aything cap intense or whatever, I don't see the problem. It has more cap than any other battleship in EVE for god's sake, use your imagination.
 Have ya even read the thread?? 
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"Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=-
"Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=- |
Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 17:07:00 -
[72]
If CCP makes it a drone or missile boat then that'd be great. Not much point in flying it over the Geddon or Abaddon at this point though.
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Kristoffer
Amarr
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.09.24 17:34:00 -
[73]
Give the apoc an optimal range bonus.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.24 18:29:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Kristoffer
Give the apoc an optimal range bonus.
QFT
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 18:30:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Kristoffer
Give the apoc an optimal range bonus.
with ammar luck CCP will give a Falloff bonus :P
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.09.30 09:57:00 -
[76]
I want something different than just another laser boat. IF it was a Tachy boat (i.e. maybe one freaking ship that could fit out top teir guns without a fitting mod) with an optimal I would be happy.
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Dristra
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.30 10:16:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kristoffer
Ever tried continuously MWDing out of dictor bubbles and contiuously firing your guns while in an Abaddon?
Turning the Apoc into an Amarrian nosneut Domi or a Gavenpoc isn't the way to go about it. Its not only the Apoc that has a problem, the problem is laser cap use and the ******** bonus they get.
Geddon = Tracking Bonus + ROF Bonus
Apoc = Optimal Range Bonus + Cap Capacity Bonus
Abaddon = Resist Bonus + Dmg Bonus
I support that.
Originally by: Belaniel
Originally by: Haffrage
You kidding? An apoc is the best 0.0 miner out there until you can fly a Hulk 
No.
Rokh > Apoc in case of 0.0 mining
if you like capping out, yes...
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.10.01 08:36:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kristoffer
Ever tried continuously MWDing out of dictor bubbles and contiuously firing your guns while in an Abaddon?
Turning the Apoc into an Amarrian nosneut Domi or a Gavenpoc isn't the way to go about it. Its not only the Apoc that has a problem, the problem is laser cap use and the ******** bonus they get.
Geddon = Tracking Bonus + ROF Bonus
Apoc = Optimal Range Bonus + Cap Capacity Bonus
Abaddon = Resist Bonus + Dmg Bonus
Thats not a bad idea.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.01 10:04:00 -
[79]
An Optimal range bonus on the Apoc is broken.
240km rage + better damage than the Rokh or Megathron + Decent Cap + very good tracking.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.01 11:08:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Goumindong
An Optimal range bonus on the Apoc is broken.
240km rage + better damage than the Rokh or Megathron + Decent Cap + very good tracking.
kind of have to agree. I would be happy if it could fit 8 Tachyons easily (that means 1 PG module only) with an MWD on fit. Then it would be a good fleet ship taht can fight for looong time.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.01 11:16:00 -
[81]
Just an idea,
Crucifier -> Arbitrator -> ??? -> Apocalypse (EW+Drones)
??? -> Omen -> Harbinger -> Armageddon (RoF+Tracking)
Punisher -> Maller -> Prophecy -> Abaddon (Damage+Resists)
Difficult to balance a tier2 Drone BS, but with carefull tweaking very possible. And finally a good option for closerange and PvE. Fleet Role is very narrow and not used that much.
________________
Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot
-Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus
-Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus
-Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.01 11:48:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Goumindong on 01/10/2007 11:52:26
Dont balance the Apoc as a drone BS. Balance it as a Khanid BS.
Also, tiers are stupid
8/4/7
5 turrets
4 launchers
100/125/175 m^3
5% siege missile damage/level
5% cap/level
ed: There is basically no way to balance a TD/Drone or TD/Missile battleship to look like the Arbitrator.
E.G.
8/6/5
3 launchers, 4 turrets
250 m^3
Drone damage bonus, TD strength.
== New Mission Battleship King.
Its a shield tanking, missile spewing, gun shooting, drone damage death machine.
And that is fairly weak as a primary EW boat on the battleship scale. But... a big optimal bonus to TDs which would be necessary to make them a fleet ew bs, might make them outshine Scorps as fleet EW, which would be a bad thing.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.01 11:59:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 01/10/2007 11:52:26
Dont balance the Apoc as a drone BS. Balance it as a Khanid BS.
Also, tiers are stupid
8/4/7
5 turrets
4 launchers
100/125/175 m^3
5% siege missile damage/level
5% cap/level
Typhoon with Lasers? Might not even bother changing it at all this way :/
And torps without velocity bonus suck
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.01 12:06:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Typhoon with Lasers? Might not even bother changing it at all this way :/
And torps without velocity bonus suck
Only problem with the typhoon is that it cant fit a full rack of weapons and a good active tank. When designing a new ship you can avoid those pitfalls. Though another launcher probably wouldnt hurt.
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Revan Darkness
Amarr
Warrior Nation United
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.01 12:12:00 -
[85]
Apoc needs a -50% bonus to MicroWarpDrive cap usage and a 125m3 drone bay. Pulse laser Apoc of doom ftw
j/k rlly
but fix the Apoc please I have one and I love it but it makes sad also
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Firkragg
Blue Labs
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.01 12:49:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Kristoffer
Ever tried continuously MWDing out of dictor bubbles and contiuously firing your guns while in an Abaddon?
Turning the Apoc into an Amarrian nosneut Domi or a Gavenpoc isn't the way to go about it. Its not only the Apoc that has a problem, the problem is laser cap use and the ******** bonus they get.
Geddon = Tracking Bonus + ROF Bonus
Apoc = Optimal Range Bonus + Cap Capacity Bonus
Abaddon = Resist Bonus + Dmg Bonus
geddons fine as it is but i do like your apoc idea. would nice to have a ship that can fire out at rokh ranges.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.01 12:54:00 -
[87]
I want my APOC with lasers!! Its a damm 8 turret boat. And i trained Ammar BS to be able to fire lasers on that magnificient hull!!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Revan Darkness
Amarr
Warrior Nation United
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.01 13:03:00 -
[88]
All of the lasers need a thermal and EM damage increase
Combine that with the suggested Optimal increase on the Apoc and an ability to fit 8 of them... maybe Mega Beams would then actually be good for sniping.. maybe
Or maybe I'm just hallucination again 
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.01 13:21:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 01/10/2007 13:24:56
Originally by: Goumindong
ed: There is basically no way to balance a TD/Drone or TD/Missile battleship to look like the Arbitrator.
sure there is.
if you know what the arbitrator does its not even that hard:
- main damage via drones -> drone bonus
- td ewar capability -> td optimal range for bs sized arbi
- mix of turret/missile/utility hardpoints
- no bonus to highslots -> not likely to use lasers/any weapons -> focus on utility & support
possible slotlayouts:
- if you want to go with 1 less slot like domi: 5-8/5/5-8
6/5/7 - same as domi 3 turrets 3 launchers maybe
7/5/6 - bit more aggressive 4T/4L maybe
5/5/8 - heavy tank lower damage 3T/2L
8/5/5 - weaker tank but more room for weapons or utility 4T/4L
- no need for more than 3-4 turrets: without an overhaul to lasers theres not much reason to fit them without a proper bonus anyway..better use the slots for support/utility
- dont give more than 4 launchers: damage should really come from drones
- if you want to add that final slot: add one low or high. dont go for more than 5 meds to avoid making the ship too powerful against snipers
250-300 m^3 dronebay (or even more depending on the new drone bandwidth)
10% drone dmg/hp
20% TD optimal range (ranged but weaker ewar for amarr makes for a good suport ship)
----------------
that being said i dont think we will get an bs-sized arbi now with the khanid changes.
so maybe go for a nightmare/typhoon like ship with a 4/4 split for turrets/launchers, a good dronebay and bonuses to lasers and launchers.
slots: 8/4/7 or 8/5/6 maybe if you want to make the ship even more versatile
bonus: 5% laser damage and 5% launcher rof (not just siege)
-> would require really nice cap to make up for the lack of laser capuse reduction bonus
or if you want to go for t1-khanid
8/3-4/7-8
- 5% armor resists (or 10% armor hp or 5% cap capacity)
- 5% torpedo damage or rof
- 0-4 turrets...doesnt really matter
- 7-8 launchers
-> just an idea...didnt check the numbers but basicly its more launchers than the raven but restricted to torpedos only bonus....could also go for less launchers and 2 bonuses for torpedos
the optimal range laser bs with 8 guns would be pretty awesome but also most likely too awesome to be balanced.
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