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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:37:00 -
[31]
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 17/02/2004 16:38:47
Jo. 6 siege carry 10 Cruise missiles each. 120 missiles cost 500,000 isk?
Err? Not sure thats right
Fras. Missiles shouldnt be made to do 3200 m/s etc etc, the point is, and had you read the post you might of gleaned it, is that the Raven should have Bonus modifoers directed at Missiles specifically, this then wouldnt effect any other ships uses of missiles.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:45:00 -
[32]
"Jo. 6 siege carry 10 Cruise missiles each. 120 missiles cost 500,000 isk?
Err? Not sure thats right"
I haven't looked the latest prices, but ~week ago depending on type they costed between 4-6 k per missile so yeah, that's about 500 k on average. Now sure, the price is probably lower if you build the missiles yourself plus the price of rare minerals went down... but that was their recent worth. ^^;
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Dreez
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Posted - 2004.02.17 18:04:00 -
[33]
Raven sucks in large combat because of 2
major issues.
1: Cruiser missiles are still to darn slow.
2: There is still major lagg-issues when a
few ravens starts spitting out a ton or missiles.
Torpedos should be abit more powerfull.
I got cm-4 and that gives me 360 in damage per
missile, witch is alot compared to Torpedos.
Increase the speed of CM`s and lower the speed
of torpedos - inclusing a damage increase.
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.17 18:45:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 17/02/2004 18:48:16
the ravens bonus is good enough, ccp needs only to make missiles itself better...
increase the speed of heavy missiles to 2250 m/s and cruise speed to 2000 m/s... torps should still be as slow as it is now!!
and cruise missiles should not be able to fitt on a frig, just torps... frigs can get in range very fast and fire torps at 5km-10km range..
"We brake for nobody"
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Dreez
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Posted - 2004.02.17 20:51:00 -
[35]
 Quote:
and cruise missiles should not be able to fitt on a frig, just torps... frigs can get in range very fast and fire torps at 5km-10km range..
Since when were frigates able to carry Torpedos
in other then their cargo  `.
And your idÚa of Heavy missiles beeing faster
then cruisers... omfg  .
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:30:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 17/02/2004 21:31:28
Quote:
Quote:
and cruise missiles should not be able to fitt on a frig, just torps... frigs can get in range very fast and fire torps at 5km-10km range..
Since when were frigates able to carry Torpedos
in other then their cargo `.
And your idÚa of Heavy missiles beeing faster
then cruisers... omfg .
ever played Battlefield 1942? even does small boats got torpedos... most small ships in rl got torps instead of cruise missiles... so why cant eve?
and why should cruise be the fastest missile?
"We brake for nobody"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:32:00 -
[37]
Quote:
and why should cruise be the fastest missile?
same reason large turrets have the longest range, you need long range for battleship pvp, and slow missiles don't cut it at long range for the reasons ive probably stated 100 times now
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:42:00 -
[38]
"same reason large turrets have the longest range, you need long range for battleship pvp, and slow missiles don't cut it at long range for the reasons ive probably stated 100 times now"
On the other hand, the smaller missiles should get even larger boost to speed... so they have actually some chance to hit those frigates that are supposedly their targets.
So i would tend to agree cruises don't have to be the fastest missiles. They need of course to be fast so they are actually usable in combat... but not necessarily faster than the light missiles which might be used at short range, but against very fast targets.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:43:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Quote:
and why should cruise be the fastest missile?
same reason large turrets have the longest range, you need long range for battleship pvp, and slow missiles don't cut it at long range for the reasons ive probably stated 100 times now
okay... but it would be better if the heavy missile was number one missile against frigates? so a heavy missile need to be fast, and probably much more agil then the cruise missile...
"We brake for nobody"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:48:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and why should cruise be the fastest missile?
same reason large turrets have the longest range, you need long range for battleship pvp, and slow missiles don't cut it at long range for the reasons ive probably stated 100 times now
okay... but it would be better if the heavy missile was number one missile against frigates? so a heavy missile need to be fast, and probably much more agil then the cruise missile...
smaller missions should be faster, but cruise missiles are generally what i feel are lacking because they're too slow to cover distance in long range engagements (which is how most pvp is fought).
if they could work it so that cruise missiles aren't overly effective vs frigates yet can cover distance quickly and strike other battleships, it would be perfect.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.17 22:02:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Earthan on 17/02/2004 22:03:33
Quote:
Quote:
i see you never gone head to head with a raven before.... it's nigh unklillable and it kills any other bs with cap and shield to spare, let alone in fleet battles.
out of curiousity, what makes the raven unkillable? it's basically a tempest with worse bonuses and worse in just about every regard.
Remember missiles eats no energy when launched+ hit every time automatically( dealing max dmg at every range)+you can chooose wich dmg you want to do ( with a gun you can not choose wich type of dmg yuo do)+ the only weapon you can fire (fof) when you are jammed.These are really big advantages.Frankly i used to kill any other bs in a Raven and stopped flying it for another secret :) reason.
The missiles may be needing some little boost but thats all imho.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.18 00:38:00 -
[42]
What you have written there is virtually complete bolix, and pretty noob basic stuff tbf.
They dont hit every time, any drone other ship, even your own ship gets in the way, or they get hit by others splash damage, they blow up. Also defender missiles kick their ass.
If your using any form of turret, you can choose the type of damage you do, by changing your ammo/crystal.
If your gonna comment, at least make sure you know what your talking about.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.02.18 02:20:00 -
[43]
Yes, they are capless. Unfourtunately missle ships have fewer low slots and as such actually have less cap then energy intensive ships (although it is correct to say that an apoc firing a max number of tachs will have some minor difficulty shield tanking).
No, they do not hit all of the time;
1) They kill each other with splash damage
2) Defenders hit them with incredible accuracy
3) Smart bombs easily take them out
4) Drone screens take them out
5) Warping away makes you invulnerable
Missles hit about as often/less often then large projectile turrets (with their incredibly poor tracking), have awful damage over time and do less damage then large turrets in an absolute sense.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 03:52:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Remember missiles eats no energy when launched+ hit every time automatically( dealing max dmg at every range)+you can chooose wich dmg you want to do ( with a gun you can not choose wich type of dmg yuo do)+ the only weapon you can fire (fof) when you are jammed.
You could say the same for projectiles. Projectiles can choose what kind of damage they do and use 0 cap as well. Aside from the Raven, missiles ROF is insanely high, atleast 15 seconds on seige/heavy launchers.
Missiles don't hit every time, missiles can easily be neutralized with defenders and smartbombs. Try a m12 with defenders or a medium smartbomb on autorepeat sometime.
Perhaps Dominix/Scorpion should get 1 more high slot (non launcher/turret) for better missile protect (put a smartbomb there). I think at the very least the Dominix should get a 7th utility high slot.
FOF are quite useless, I suggest you try to use them before you comment on FOF.
Quote:
These are really big advantages.Frankly i used to kill any other bs in a Raven and stopped flying it for another secret :) reason.
In 1v1 combat at about 20-25km a Raven is pretty formidable, though it still delivers damage quite slowly, it can take a hell of a beating. Then again so can the Apocolypse, and it delivers much more DoT.
However in fleet combat (where it MATTERS) the Raven is currently a joke.
There are a lot of flaws in missiles right now, which I've stated previously.
Quote:
The missiles may be needing some little boost but thats all imho.
big boost, more skills for missiles, cheaper, fast, ect.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Kashre
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Posted - 2004.02.18 04:14:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Someone mentioned fixing missiles to help their Typhoon, you must be having a laugh? Like it's broken or something...
Would it be fair to have a tier 1 BS with 4x1400's and 4 missile bays full of cruise flying at u at 3200m/s with no splash damage and another tier 1 BS with 5x425 rails (if you've got good fitting skills) plinking off your sheilds?
That was me.
Getting 4x1400 + 4 launchers + anything useful in the mid slots on a typhoon is pretty impossible without sacrificing a buttload of low slots to Reactor controls and CPU mods, so dont get carried away with the uberness of the typhoon.
And I didnt say I wanted 3200m/s cruise missiles either. Im actually pretty ok with the speed they go now. However... I seriously think they need to nerf the splash damage to nothing, cause like someone said, you CAN NOT focus torpedo fire on a target without loosing a signifigant portion of your missiles to your allies missiles.
Im ok with the damage they put out, which reminds me of projectiles (low DOT, no cap to fire... all is even), but considering they arent that much more effective than large projectiles (IMO) they aughta be a bit cheaper to build.
That's all the boosting I think they need, and if they did that my Typhoon would be a much better fleet ship than it is.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
NajZero
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Posted - 2004.02.18 07:16:00 -
[46]
Edited by: NajZero on 18/02/2004 07:21:50
1. give the Raven +50 CPU
2. Remove the splash damage on all Missle typs (not torpedos)
3. makes CM +100% increasing in speed.
and maybe change the hybrid bonus on raven to at least +3% Missle Damage per lvl, then the raven will be balanced in any cases and it will be competitive with the Tempest and so on.
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Vaarmoth Malinigvious
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Posted - 2004.02.18 07:40:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Vaarmoth Malinigvious on 18/02/2004 07:41:15
Yeah, thats not a bad idea to remove splash damage from all but torps; because really outside of taking out drones, there isnt much use for it.
I think it would be fair to increase cruise missle speed, but decrease the agility; that would make them better for long range, and harder to use against frigites. Heavy missles could then be slightly slower, but much more agile for use against cruisers and frigs.
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NajZero
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:13:00 -
[48]
yes 100% agree.
Then you have to use Heavy Missles against Frigattes and this would be more realistic than hit a frigatte with CM.
I suggest that Cruise Missles and Torpedos are BS based weapons so the CM and Torp will be effective only against BS¦ses and large Cruisers.
For small agile Cruisers you have to use Heavy Missles too.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:21:00 -
[49]
Quote:
What you have written there is virtually complete bolix, and pretty noob basic stuff tbf.
They dont hit every time, any drone other ship, even your own ship gets in the way, or they get hit by others splash damage, they blow up. Also defender missiles kick their ass.
If your using any form of turret, you can choose the type of damage you do, by changing your ammo/crystal.
If your gonna comment, at least make sure you know what your talking about.
Lol I love it when poeple who dont agree with me start to write ys newbie stuff.Im pretty ****ed of it.Hope to mee you in 0.0 and we can check who is more newbie
KIAeddz if you can change hybrid type of dmg i will give you an oscar.You are simply wrong the only thing that change is dmg/range not type.
You type as if you knew everythign and you dont know basics.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:24:00 -
[50]
Guys i agree there are ways of stopiing missiles, but if not stoppped they hit everytime, thats what i meant.
And of course i agree with what you all pointed that smartbombs eat missiles, thats why i stopeed to use Raven.Smartbombs are to goood against missiles.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:27:00 -
[51]
Quote:
FOF are quite useless, I suggest you try to use them before you comment on FOF.
I tried them it was a long time before castor but I chased then 2 scorpion wich were jamming me:)
I think they are ok, when someone jamms you he is not so tough for combat so fof are just fine.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:29:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Yes, they are capless. Unfourtunately missle ships have fewer low slots and as such actually have less cap then energy intensive ships (although it is correct to say that an apoc firing a max number of tachs will have some minor difficulty shield tanking).
No, they do not hit all of the time;
1) They kill each other with splash damage
2) Defenders hit them with incredible accuracy
3) Smart bombs easily take them out
4) Drone screens take them out
5) Warping away makes you invulnerable
Missles hit about as often/less often then large projectile turrets (with their incredibly poor tracking), have awful damage over time and do less damage then large turrets in an absolute sense.
Only torps now kill other missiles, cruises make no splash dmg
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:30:00 -
[53]
FOF's won't hit someone who is solely sensor dampening you and they only travel 60km.
That's just wrong.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:45:00 -
[54]
hmm maybe.
I used to fight close then, with an mwd..
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
NajZero
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:55:00 -
[55]
muahaha lol , NOOB
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:04:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Only torps now kill other missiles, cruises make no splash dmg
heh, sorry but you're wrong, do show info on every missile, they all have a blast radius, albiet small, yet it seems to be enough to take each other out quite often
focusing fire on ships (which is ESSENTIAL IN PVP) with missiles, you basically wind up blowing each others missiles up making focus firing with missile ships near impossible.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:14:00 -
[57]
Quote:
muahaha lol , NOOB
Again.
Before MWD nerf a Raven with mwd, going fast close around ships was the ultimate destruction machine.
Large guns couldnt hit you beacuse of your speed/closeness.Missiles wich you fired werent affected by this.
Guys, all you calling everybody newbies please group , we meet in 0.0 and we do some duels....
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:15:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Quote:
Only torps now kill other missiles, cruises make no splash dmg
heh, sorry but you're wrong, do show info on every missile, they all have a blast radius, albiet small, yet it seems to be enough to take each other out quite often
focusing fire on ships (which is ESSENTIAL IN PVP) with missiles, you basically wind up blowing each others missiles up making focus firing with missile ships near impossible.
Hmm really? The cruise splash is so small now i though it is neglectable...
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:17:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Hmm really? The cruise splash is so small now i though it is neglectable...
it's 250 meters, not much but still enough to take out friendly missiles striking a target unfortunately.
if you launch 4 heavy missiles at nearly the same time you you will see only 1 hits and the first one to strike takes out the 3 launched with it 
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Psychopath
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:52:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Psychopath on 18/02/2004 12:00:07
If you guys take your ships into TQ and not do everything by chaos setups you will see how strong a raven is 1v1. An apoc to go 1v1 would need a warp scramble and probably a sensor booster which leaves it 2 MED slots. This is enough for a shield booster and a hardener. This setup would be useless against a raven with a tanked shield.
If you use your chaos apoc setups 1v1 on TQ what is the bs going to do? WARP AWAY
So stop living in fantasy and accept that a raven is a very good pvp ship and is fine as it is.
A Corp 1 pirate I was meant to be, trim the sails and roam the sea |
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