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US - EU - Who's the best off?

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Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:32:00 - [1] Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Jago Kain Jesus was English, and no amount of turning your country into a facist theocracy to overcompensate for your lack of a decent prophet will change that. ....what? Are you aware of the fact that the geographical location of Betlehem is, in fact, not on the British Isles? I loled at this As far as I can see most of the West is stagnating, EU and USA are two sides of the same coin, we both have the same general history (colonial empire) but USA still has it's empire due to the way it was structured (ie kill Indians, colonise then when big enough make it a federal state). I think it is sad of the way Britisn has become infested with bloody chavs. I still say some coompulsory military service would sort them out, or at least make good terrorising force - they scare the ** out of me. So..... who wants to start a revolution for a glorious European Imperium /pseudo nostalgic rant Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 09:43:00 - [2] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: shinsushi Well the UK got something out of it too. Spreken zie deutsch? And the French helped the americans in their struggle for independance. Without them, you would still have been a English colony. Whats your point? You made it sound like the UK got nothing out of it, while the evil Americans took advantage of the English. I pointed out a symbiotic exchange rather than a parasitic one. Anyway learn you history, the English never would have won that war, just like while ** Germany would have steam rolled western Europe, Russia would have eventually beaten them, and dropping the A-bomb saved more lives than it cost (both Japanese and American lives.) This guy is right - you should listen to him. The thing about British teeth is.... well tea. The stereotype that we drink tea lots, it is an accurate one. I myself drink 4 to 5 cups a day, there's a chemical in it that effects the teeth making them more yellow, cant remember it's name. The nukes were a nessecity, no question. The Japanese rulers were preparing to arm evry man woman and child that could hold a gun and charge when the USA invaded the mainland. At the moment gas prices are soaring - guess how we heat our water for showers and how we save a few quid each day? About the rest of Europe I cannot speak for, nut keep in mind that Britian did have the worlds largest empire in history our previous generations have too much stock in that. Hell I mentioned to a distant family member I was part German and he started getting smug because Germany lost WW2 - I mean what the ? To be honest many Brits are smart, we have huge investments in education and when we hear that creationism is taken as fact in some state schools, sorry we kinda lol at that no offence intended. Reading Bill Bryson's "Notes from a Small Island" would be reccomended, and most of Britian getting over the Empire and stop living in the past - who cares about "independant" Britian ffs, it's become part of a larger Europe like France and Germany or become inimportant. In conclusion we have our problems with each other but when it comes down to it we are willing to band together for each other. Oh, and bring on the European Commonwealth!! Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 12:30:00 - [3] Edited by: Kirjava on 25/09/2007 12:31:32 Nukes arent a real problem if you can take the hit or deflect it. A good missile sheild like the USA (Patriot wasn't it?) can probably be mounted on warship to stop them launching their crappy missile. Once they fire it it's gone, then conventional warfare will occur. If not, then they will have to contend with India's second strike as I think the only thing stopping that at the moment is the Nuke Pakistan has, I got told they only have a handful so they can't overwhelm easily. The more we keep poking the middle East the more likely they are to sting us, frankly if the countries are like that we have no business to intervene on another culture unless it's going to affect us on a large scale. Not many realy want a war, we no longer get the spoils of it so why the hell do we do preventative measures? If the middle East was truely a lost cause we would probably remove it if it was as aggressive as it is portrayed, but we haven't and it can improve on it's own without having to keep it's eye on the rest of the world so I say we let evolution take it's course. We have our own ** to sort out before taking on a billion plus population to mould in the way that worked for Europe and by proxy Japan and America. Edit - why is "s h i t" filtered and yet bastard remains? Same for "I have a * in my glasses".... Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 12:50:00 - [4] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: US and EU: which is better? and Why? I say USA, because that's where I'm from... I don't think you will get too many people to "vote" for the opposite of where they live tbh... EU is not the USA to us, USA is not the EU to many of you... So what? At least we are all free to live where we want, right? That is true, when it comes down to it perhaps we should seriously consider a Union of the USA, Canada and the EU? Hell if Putin (sp?) can get deposed then we could get the Russians in and have a single Atlantic Superstate. Might happen in a few centuries now I think about it, but given European countries made it work after such prolonged warfare it proves it could theoreticly work. Maybe we should end the topic on the agreement that we each beleive us to be the superior, and to agree to disagree which our politicians obviously cannot. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 12:59:00 - [5] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Maybe we should end the topic on the agreement that we each beleive us to be the superior, and to agree to disagree which our politicians obviously cannot. Neither is superior IMO... All couontries have their strengths and their faults... USA & EU balance each other well IMO... And Putin will not be deposed, he'll be in control even after the "election"... True, but im 16 and fairly sure that he will be deposed by his death of old age, I will outlive the man to see it happen - without him the rest of Russia would crumble (the Kremlin I mean) and unless a cohesive government was in place after his removal their would be anarchy or the revolution (less likely) would happen that that Chess Champion was a part of, cannot remember his name off the top of my head. Point is, when Putin is gone things will change for the better, if a more open governemt is in place perhaps then it would be integrated into the EU as a trade block which would stabalise the econemy and lower it's trade barriers. Maybe I'm being Naive on this but I hope that it will eventualy remove the pseudo Communism. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 13:29:00 - [6] Heres something for a bit of perspective that I mentioned earlier. In 40 years Putin, Bush, Brown and BinLaden will all probably have died of old age. Yet many of us (Im guessing most people here are under 25?) will be coming towards how old they are now. We may spend Billions on finding and killing people in pursuit of a need for people who want us dead to die, but ultimatly we all die of age and then it won't matter anymore. Does the thousands that died for Nappoleon realy matter to us? Will the millions that died in WW2 matter in 30 years if we continue as we do? Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 13:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Kirjava Point is, when Putin is gone things will change for the better, if a more open governemt is in place perhaps then it would be integrated into the EU as a trade block which would stabalise the econemy and lower it's trade barriers. Maybe I'm being Naive on this but I hope that it will eventualy remove the pseudo Communism. I don't share your optimism. Though living next door to Russia I hope for the better. It all depends on who replaces Putin, but keep in mind Putin has closed all independant media in Russia and whomever gets elected after him will have the table set for a dictatorship. In a sense, Putin is already a dictator. That is true, but I would guess that until we have Fusion as an alternative to oil we don't have much chance of challenging Putin. If we make a wrong move he can always put us in check by a high speed ICB launch in Russia or hike up the gas prices or simply turn it off - worst in winter. I say Fusion because that is the most realistic alternative we can come up with, if we can get that on a large scale within the next 20 years then we can simply decide we don't want Russian fuels, impose a trade blockade and watch Russia crumble. Read in the Economist that he spent the oil surplus on upgrading his military, and at the moment we cannot bite the hand that feeds us. If we aren't optimistic about it then we are pessimistic, by that I mean returning to the Cold War days and possibly all out war if Putin does that - desperate people make critical mistakes. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 14:03:00 - [8] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Jago Kain OK, so the USA was late for WWI and WWII... fair comment, even Britain was late joinging in WWII and only came in for the same reason as the USA; enlightened self-interest. However, the USA is making up for all that by being really fecking punctual this time round. Facist theocracy warmongers 4tl It's simply our turn right now... Many EU nations at one point in time had their day as the top dog too... Someday, it will no longer be our turn. And the new hot shot will make all the same mistakes... It's the way the world works. US is already relativly on the decline though. After WW2 European nations got back up from the ruins and the Empires crumbled. USA looks to have been the de facto superpower as the Successor to the British Empire as one of only 2 Empires that remained - the USA was structured to perseviere and it has done so. The USSR was the other - now it is gone and Russia's satelites are joining with Europe to make another major economic power - the EU. India and China are the other 2, as their econemies expand to accomodate billion plus citizenships they are bound to be Great powers in the post Cold War era. It's an interesting topic but as the numbers look the EU has a few trillion more dollars than the USA does in terms of money. As the US econemy fluctuates as it is at the moment quite a few banks would be bought up by European and Indian counterparts. Looks like the 6 Great powers of the next few decades will be USA, EU, PRC, India, Russia and Japan. I would put my money of the country being the biggest bastard as one of those. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 14:21:00 - [9] Edited by: Kirjava on 25/09/2007 14:21:50 nvm Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 14:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Cornucopian here, check it out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Zubkov Viktor Zubkov Took me under 10 seconds to notice whats wrong with that. No political party??? His daughter married to the deffence minister. He himself the man responsable to investigate money laundering in a mob ridden corrupt government?? We are in deep ** now. Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.25 15:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Warp away u ppl r 2 smart. Heir, haev sum beer Sorry - I'm underage Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.26 10:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Thorliaron Originally by: Kirjava Heres something for a bit of perspective that I mentioned earlier. In 40 years Putin, Bush, Brown and BinLaden will all probably have died of old age. Yet many of us (Im guessing most people here are under 25?) will be coming towards how old they are now. We may spend Billions on finding and killing people in pursuit of a need for people who want us dead to die, but ultimatly we all die of age and then it won't matter anymore. Does the thousands that died for Nappoleon realy matter to us? Will the millions that died in WW2 matter in 30 years if we continue as we do? Some of us here wont reach 30/40's as WW3 will be happening, i say 'some' because there are a lot of armchair soldiers,generals and patriots who are contempt to sit on a online spaceship fourm and allow other countrymen to die for a cause their so fanatical about...ie 'the war on terror', why dont you stfu and sign up and go out there and shoot yourself some al-queda. I would love to - however I am not of miliary age so cannot sighn up for the Army, or my personal prefference for what I am trying to get a carrer in , naval enginearing. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.26 11:28:00 - [13] Iran is the exception, but countries that are dependant on trade to survive should have blockades and trade barriers impossed before actual military action beyond enforcing the above. The coalition already straddels Iran on two sides and has a massive navy task force in the Gulf, not much is going to get through that. Ultimatly the US is perceived as triggerhappy and more than willing to invade a country for it's own intrests. Norway is small, neutral and can talk to both Iran and USA and negotiate things over as opposed to having their leader preaching how evil Iran is, that they are part of the "axis of evil", his undeclared "war of terror" that surprises him when people wage war back. Negotiations where you gain and lose nothing should be the standpoint of the US as the top superpower of the moment, doing the approach Norway has get's your country respect and from their a chance of changing things without needing the bullets apart from as a show that "yes, we do have weapons to defend ourselves should something happen". Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.26 11:40:00 - [14] Actualy many of the above did change due to opinion. Opinion that the Empires were dispicable, they were dismantled. Opinion that the certain german party that shall not be seen through this filter made my forefathers leave Germany to Britian. Opinion that the people of the British Colonies were being exploited made them change to become the USA. The opinion was taken on, and they were allowed to be their own country, remember Canada was invaded in 1812 and the empire was back in Washington, but we withdrew, we changed. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.26 12:43:00 - [15] Agreed with Phrixus Zephyr on many counts, but I hope Brown or whatever part replaces Labor in the next election will repeal these to a "if he broke into your house you can protect it any way you like within reason". A farmer here was sentanced to 20 years for manslaughter a few years back because he shot someone who had repeatedly robbed his house. I say give the chavs some military service, that either removes them from society by service or preferably by getting some bloody self disipline - beating your freidns and **ing on them while recording it for youtube just disgusts me. Cameron has a few good idea.... but so does Labor, I'm tending towards the LibDems atm. Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.27 11:13:00 - [16] Tony Blair was Bush's lapdog. We got rid of him, popular opinion turned against him and he resighned. Brown is much cooler towards Bush, only reason we are their now is to finish the ** Blair started, otherwise I'm fairly sure Brown would have told him to go through the UN, which would have been vetoed. We are not the American lapdogs, can't comment on Australia though. Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.27 11:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Locus Bey Australia's stance Oh how the mighty fall.... Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.27 12:08:00 - [18] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 11:59:23 Originally by: Doctor Funcleroy Originally by: Xen Gin Is this thread still going on? Apparently so. The USA dosen't know when it's beat it seems.... Nope, we don't give up like you guys... (Untill Hillary becomes president that is...) Sometimes it is better to cut with what you have and turn the other cheek. If we hadn't have learned to do that, consider the rebel colonies would have gotten their independance if at all wothin the last 100 years. Like said earlier - British troops were back in Washington in 1812 (yes I know they were Canadian but Canada didn't exist back then), and we let you run yourselves. War's go on for decades when countries don't know when they are beaten and continue in attririon warfare indefinatly. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.27 12:15:00 - [19] It's a civil war and the Coaltion of those the FBI conned into it isn't doing anything to help. We are allready withdrawing, there is no use in throwing away troops for a lost cause. Besides - it's a Civil war, there are no terrorists per say just a gurrila campaighn. We cannot subjigate them nor can we help them. Game over, we killed enough we lost enough. Unless someone can come up with a new approach the way it's going at the moment has allready failed. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:42:00 - [20] I agree with Krulla and Cornucopian, it is a lot of fun and insightful into people. Out of interest, what do you see making me tick? Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Originally by: Drakolus The love of broadly declaring an entire culture/country/geographic area crap because of one or two minor things you do not like...In support of this. SCREW Sweden, Norway and Finland...it looks too much like a *** (manpart) on the map. Now pardon me while I go back to enjoying the fruits of my labor. Going to have a burger, watch some violence on the news and think about the next gun I want to purchase while laughing at the "made in china" sticker on the bottom of my coffee cup. In summary...Get over it. Every Country has it's ups and downs. That is part of the European mindset. Very few have any actual understanding of the United States, despite what any may post ion these boards about friends, family or visits. In Europe, nations have been generally determined by language and culture, and every single nation itself is small. And they apply that mind set to the United States. And they have no idea, nor have the concept that one nation is able to have so many cultures, vast array of different lifestyles, political beliefs and get along under one rule. One poster in this thread or a related one, heard some possibly explicit rap music, and from his little chair in Norway - thinks the US worships rap music artists, and has declared the US culture bankrupt. It makes me laugh. Especially when, and maybe I am ignorant in this regard, I can not identify a single shard of Norwegian culture present in the US. Does that mean Norway has no culture? I could go one with how absurd this poster's worldview is. An extra: I bought a new upper receiver for modular accessories for my AR-15. Over the weekend I cleaned my Glock 19 for the fun of it. And when not playing Eve, I pick up John Woo's Stranglehold game for some gratuitous violence. It's easier to think of the USA as 4 countries under Washingtons rule, the south, the east west and the bit in the middle. Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:58:00 - [22] Owell, at least thats better than what I was expecting - being overy pro Europe and USA can go burn itself kind of an attitude a few people seem to have. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.29 21:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Captain Hudson Originally by: mama guru Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Experts propose actions ALL the time via the UN, but the US KEEPS VETOING IT ALL RESULTING IN NOTHING CHANGING. AND SENDING SOLDIERS WITH BIG GUNS ISNT ALWAYS THE ANSWERS AS YOU HOPEFULLY WILL LEARN ONE DAY, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT YOU WOULD HAVE LREANRED ALREADY WITH IRAQ BUT NO YOU DONT WANT TO CHANGE YOUR OPINION BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO BE A FLIP-FLOPPPER LIKE THEM LIBERAL HIPPIES!!! Voting doesn't accomplish **... Don't wait for a vote, go out and make it happen. You don't have to wait for us to start, go save the world on your own... Start up your own coalition. I'm sorry, but the ppl causing all the trouble use guns. Talking & voting about terrorists doesn't accomplish crap, you need to talk their language, that language involves killing. Youre so smart. VETO DOES NOT EQUAL VOTE! VETO= I REFUSE So if the US puts a veto against a sanction then thats it, nothing happens, because they refuse and its their right. Same thing would happen if France did it. France already used their veto mate, they veto'd the UN approval of a invasion in Iraq because they where getting a good deal off ** for oil. Didn't Bush then say "Screw the UN we have money - billions of it in our military" or something akin to that and prompty invade Iraq? Originally by:** CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.

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