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Skilled Minmatar vs not so skilled Gallente

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Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Laboratus on 24/09/2007 08:06:29 Originally by: iiOs right Clue cookie ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Dreadpilot Roberts SCARFACES	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Hul'ka Ok, here's the deal: IÆm a year and a half old character. I have Minmatar battleship lv5 and in few days Large autocannon specialization on lv4. For lv5 IÆm going to need additional 31 day. Plus, 101 day to be able to fit t2 cruise missile (lv4) and supporting missile skills on lv5. Plus 86 days to be able to have t2 heavy drones. On the other hand Megathron - in 17 days I can have Gallente battleship on lv4, and Large hybrid on lv4. Gonna put t1 ogres in drone bay. DonÆt need missile skils. Result: Tempest with all maxed skills: Volley damage: 1530 = 641DPS (366 from turrets, 64.7 from cruise launchers and 209.9 from drones) Megathron in 17 days: Volley damage: 2794 = 830 DPS (589 from turrets and 240 from drones) Not to mention additional low slot (better tank or better damage) No, IÆm not saying boost Minmatar or nerf Gallente.. I just want an explanation why things are like they are.. Reasonable one, please.. Tempest gets 4000 volley dmg with ok skills and no implants :\| so ur figures are so ... so wrong. That's with Fusion Ammo. Include max skills and dmg implants and u get about 5500 volley dmg at 70'ish km range. Beat that with ur lame not-skilled mega
iiOs Blood Corsair's The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.24 09:32:00 - [33] Edited by: iiOs on 24/09/2007 09:32:35 Originally by: Laboratus Edited by: Laboratus on 24/09/2007 08:06:29 Originally by: iiOs right Clue cookie The dps difference in over web range is calculated in single digits, and even then it favours the pest. The big difference here comes from ship base resistances, since barrage deals explosive heavy damage, while null is thermal heavy. Base resist of 0.1 vs explosive vs base resist of 0.35 of thermal just means that the pest does significantly more effective dps... Drone bay outside of webrange is pretty meaningless tbg. They will be smoked and fast, if used... do I need to say more? all the crap you posted there makes no sence(only looks good on paper), go and try the ships and come back and you are giving me a clue lol ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- BB
Radek Boktor	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:01:00 - [34] the megat has always out dpsed the tempest, i think ur math is a little wrong, cause i fly a t2 megat and im sure you cn;t get that dps with T1's. as a rule tempests dn;t go after megathrons, but maelstrum pilots do
Wideen Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:12:00 - [35] Megathron, close range = lots of damage. Tempest, close range = decent damage. A Megathron fighting a tempest in its fall-off range (about 15-20km) is a non-dmg dealing megathron. It's all about using your strengths to to your opponent's disadvantage. You're faster and you can do dmg above 5km out - a mega pilot wishes he could say the same. So stop this and start using your ship's/race advantage. Originally by: P'uck I know somebody who heard somebody say that an Osprey defeated Chuck Norris. Twice. Need I say more?
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Wideen Megathron, close range = lots of damage. Tempest, close range = decent damage. A Megathron fighting a tempest in its fall-off range (about 15-20km) is a non-dmg dealing megathron. It's all about using your strengths to to your opponent's disadvantage. You're faster and you can do dmg above 5km out - a mega pilot wishes he could say the same. So stop this and start using your ship's/race advantage. Actually the tempest and megathron deal same damage at 20km, the tempest just dont need to use cap to do so
iiOs Blood Corsair's The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:30:00 - [37] any1 got a desent gank/ plate pest setup?.... ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- BB
Trojanman190 Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:46:00 - [38] There is a slight unbalance but you havent really put your finger on it yet. 650mm AC with barage hit out to 40km. (nice!) Pest has an extra mid... Sensor booster for some resistance to damps and faster targeting. Tracking disruptor, to take a mega out 1 on 1 (No this is not a valid arguement since this never happens, just saying it can be done). Extra web, if frigate popping is your thing. Tracking computer to match the mega's second bonus. Target painter for more sig.... that extra mid is a nice bit of flexibility that the mega does not have. The missing low slot is pretty goofy, im going to agree there. So what we get a second damage bonus, our guns need that to not get laughed at in terms of damage. 2 extra high slots are fairly wasted on cruise missiles dude. Try two assault launchers. Or better yet an assualt launcher and a Neutralizer. Or if you are sniping use a Neut and a cloak. or remote rep and a cloak. Mega has to pick one. This flexibility isnt like the extra mid slot but its a little something that can help. I am **ed about the freaking drone bay. I have Drone Interfacing 5 and I can use T2 ogres. On my typhoon I get almost 400 dps just off my ogres. The drone bay on the pest is goofy. The minmatar are allied with the Gallente, our drone bays should show it on our ships. The pest's guns are out dpsed by the mega's guns and the drones dont come anywhere near making up for that damage problem. Maybe the bandwidth patch will fix this issue. My other problem with the mega versus the pest is more of a railguns versus artillery thing. Blah blah blah we get a sweet high damage alpha blah blah blah... with fantastic skills our optimal is 40km LESS than a mega's. At 200km im hitting less than 50% of the time while the mega can just ping away with slightly better dps than if we were both in optimal. To top it off, we have less accuracy. And the cherry on top? Rails hold more ammo, so in a straight fight with both ships in optimal, the pest will reload MUCH sooner. I believe its so bad that the pest will reload twice before the mega reloads for the first time. WTF. So... less damage, less accuracy, less range... why? Well we don't use cap. SHUT UP ABOUT THIS. IT MEANS NOTHING. A sniping mega will take almost 5 minutes with decent skills to run out of cap. I would gladly have my autocannons take some energy if they got some more damage or accuracy for it. Ive never been in a PVP situation where the fact that my guns fired for free meant anything. If my vagabond is out of cap then shooting will do nothing to save it. Its like that with most ships. If your mega runs out of cap its not "aw shucks now I cant shoot my blasters" its "I need to get my pod the f* out of here!" cuz NEITHER race will put out an effective tank with 0 cap. Damage types? Another pvp lawl. Picking damage types and having guns that take no cap is great for PvE but in PVP it really means little. Most minmitar pilots use Barrage at the t2 level as it the only ammo type that feels special and can do something other ammo types cannot. Every now and then while warping into a battle you get to switch to another ammo type to kill a lone drake or something, but in a big battle with multiples races on the opposing side that means nothing. Switching ammo takes 10 seconds. You are better off going with a single strong ammo type. The whole "you can choose your damage" thing seems like it was meant to try and balance for the lack of extra damage and it fails miserably. So... in the end... the pest and the mega are kinda balanced at close range. It could be worse. The pest is much much much more flexible. For everything else it kinda blows and I am wondering why things are they way they are as well.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Trojanman190 Pest has an extra mid... Sensor booster for some resistance to damps I agree with your whole post, other than this line, which is so wrong it invents new levels of wrong just to be wrong at them. Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:00:00 - [40] Originally by: slothe i think your figures are wrong tbh. tempest artillery isnt about dps its about alpha strike. Noone was talking about artilerys slothe he was talking about autocannons and hes right btw..
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:01:00 - [41] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Trojanman190 Pest has an extra mid... Sensor booster for some resistance to damps I agree with your whole post, other than this line, which is so wrong it invents new levels of wrong just to be wrong at them. Any suggestions to it then? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:11:00 - [42] Edited by: Creature 3760 on 24/09/2007 15:14:02 Give minmattar Ships/Guns more fallof bonus
Stakhanov Katana's Edge	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:13:00 - [43] Why not just fit a faction web and overheat it on tackle ? If you kill the mega's velocity soon enough , it's not going to compete. It doesn't have to be a domi web , can be just a true sansha or the like. Webbed top speed doesn't matter much since the mega can't keep his med rack overheated long enough. Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:16:00 - [44] u can play all scenes now theoretically but wont bring u anywhere example : what if megathron has faction web but ur tempest has not..
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Creature 3760 u can play all scenes now theoretically but wont bring u anywhere example : what if megathron has faction web but ur tempest has not.. Megathron: slower, 2-3 plates, maybe even trimark rigs. Very ******* slow. Tempest: Faster, more range and has extra med to fit another web or whatever. I dont care im going minmatar anyway. If you whine for more falloff thats just laugable. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:33:00 - [46] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Creature 3760 u can play all scenes now theoretically but wont bring u anywhere example : what if megathron has faction web but ur tempest has not.. Megathron: slower, 2-3 plates, maybe even trimark rigs. Very ******* slow. Tempest: Faster, more range and has extra med to fit another web or whatever. I dont care im going minmatar anyway. If you whine for more falloff thats just laugable. ok so iam whining.. np but maybe u tell me a setup of tempest that can kill an megathron?
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Creature 3760 ok so iam whining.. np but maybe u tell me a setup of tempest that can kill an megathron? ACs, barrage, siege launchers, gyros, tds, general fit, no stupid pilot errors. Once you can control range, and take away the advantage given by null ammo, there is no way for the mega to win, except pilot error by the pest pilot. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:42:00 - [48] Edited by: Creature 3760 on 24/09/2007 15:44:38 i tell u what, u cant kill a megathron in tempest believe me or not... only way is with some neuts but that takes to long will give megathron time to reaproach gate and at gates is where most of eve pvp happens
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:46:00 - [49] Originally by: Creature 3760 Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Creature 3760 u can play all scenes now theoretically but wont bring u anywhere example : what if megathron has faction web but ur tempest has not.. Megathron: slower, 2-3 plates, maybe even trimark rigs. Very ******* slow. Tempest: Faster, more range and has extra med to fit another web or whatever. I dont care im going minmatar anyway. If you whine for more falloff thats just laugable. ok so iam whining.. np but maybe u tell me a setup of tempest that can kill an megathron? Tempest and megathron engage. Tempest locks megathron and his drones. He puts his highslot weapons on the megathron and his own drones on the mega his drones. While doing this he moves to 28 km range, while it takes him 1 cycle to burst up to +-800m/s, the megathron requires 2 cycles to reach that kind of speed. This means that the tempest gains more DPS. Meanwhile the ogre II of the mega cannot catch up with the 1.1 km/s tempest and one is allready getting into deep armor. The megathron gives up as his cap is dying from mwding and firing @ the same time. He tries gunning the tempest from longer ranges and because of null the tempest needs to start tanking. 1 megathron firing his guns = 1 tempest running a large armor repairer. The tempest is @ 20-30 km range. The tempest is passive tanking the megathron, while the megathron just pulled back his 2 surviving ogre II. Make sure your disrupter is off and overload it. Now keep pressing "look at", spam it. Onoes i cannot look at anymore! This means the megathron is trying to flee. Fire off 1 cycle of the disrupter and you take no damage from heat at all. Still you just tackled the megathron from 25+ km and its dead. If it decides to go back to the gate, just load hail and RAM IT and than web it. +2.5 km from gate is enough. 2* Energized adaptive membrane II + 1* damage control II < AC cannons with hail. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:54:00 - [50] u can come up with many examples.. but its not practicable U cant kill a megathron in ur tempest, get over it
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:56:00 - [51] Edited by: Laboratus on 24/09/2007 15:57:57 If you know how to fly the ship, there should be no way to lose that fight, except pilot error... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 16:02:00 - [52] ur way to argue is allways u dont make mistakes but ur enemy does.. like this u wont get to the truth.. u have to count the damage dealt when both are under same conditions..
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 16:02:00 - [53] Since we are all Theorycrafting here, Some numbers with EFT using the Lvl5 character. Megathron with 7 Neutron Blaster Cannon II's, 3 MagStab II's and 5 Ogre II's DPS w/ Void L 1265, at 6.8km / 13.1km 50%dps / 19.4km 0%dps cap runs out at 5m13s DPS w/ CN Antimatter L 1252* at 4.5km / 17.5km 50% / 30.5km 0% DPS w/ Null L 1062 at 11km / 27km 50%dps / 43km 0% Tempest with 6 800 AC II's, 2 Siege 2's(w/faction torpedos), 2 Ogre II's, 2 Hammer head II's, 1 Hobgoblin II, and 3 Gyrostabilizer II's.. DPS w/ Hail L 1152, at 3km / 13km 50% / 23km 0% cap recharge loss with ammo. DPS w/ RF EMP L 1072* at 3km / 23km 50% / 43km 0% DPS w/ Barrage L 973 at 6km / 36km 50% / 66km 0% Both ships use almost the same amount of CPU Megahtron w/7 guns, Tempest w/ 6 guns,2 launchers. They both are really CPU limited for a tank in general. Notes: the OP needs to learn to fit his ships alot better. Navy ammo > T2 damage ammo. Megathron w/MWD fit can have a sustained firing with Void 5m13s, 8m2s with other ammo. Activating MWD to approach target and having a tank on reduces this by alot... Im sure Gallente folks would love 5-10% less DPS for capless guns also.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.24 16:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Rastigan ... That was very good thank you. Could you do effective dps after resistences pls... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.24 16:30:00 - [55] Edited by: Laboratus on 24/09/2007 16:31:18 Originally by: Creature 3760 ur way to argue is allways u dont make mistakes but ur enemy does.. like this u wont get to the truth.. u have to count the damage dealt when both are under same conditions.. Uh, no? If you compare the two ships, you will notice that the pest hass significantly more speed. Hence, two equally skilled pilots will result in the pest pilot being able to dictate range, par bad pilots errors. With the introduction of T2 distruptors the error marginal has grown from 10-20km to 10-24km... Taking into account heat, it pushes it even farther out... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 16:48:00 - [56] megathron has 7 lows can fit one overdrive atleast to compensate and still has more damage + more drones too so it can fit one or two heavy web drones and so on iam not willing to pin out all of the points now really not worth it lets say we are both right..
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.24 16:49:00 - [57] we agree to disagree:) ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats

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