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x13 killed m.pire MS (NYX) in Empire low sec

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Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:46:00 - [211] Originally by: Heckelgruber Congratulations on a truly immense kill. I think it's really good for the game that some guys went and achieved something that people were saying isn't possible rather than complaining on the forums and calling for the game to be adapted to how they want to play. It's one of the really great things about EVE that cunning players can push the boundaries of tactics and that thought and planning can put you ahead of skillpoints and money. Well played.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:51:00 - [212] Originally by: ZaKma Well, if I was flying a 20b+ ship I'd be damn paranoid. Especially if local suddenly rises by 5+ on my gate. They might be able to get him bellow 70% instantly, however with a good lowsec fit he'd use injectors and less tank stuff and more cap stuff so he'd probably get past 70% and jump (neut cycle time = 24 seconds, plenty of time). Also I'd have a few friends nearby in full cap transfer guardian setups as backup. Not saying it's impossible, but with a pilot that knows what he's doing and is fit properly for lowsec camping.. it's extremely difficult. If you were flying a 20b+ ship, chances are that we'd already have laughed over your loss in here, I suppose. If you would really fit cap boosters, that is (how many would you fit to keep up with 6+ neutralizing BS, eh?). Anyway, the way x13 planned and executed this, it would have taken a lot of luck or a special fitting just for this occasion to escape. Everyone who is flaming the MS pilot is obviously too stupid to understand this. isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
Revnant Caldari Nerd-Rage	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:55:00 - [213] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/09/2007 10:18:43 Originally by: gordon cain Quote: Id say it was more like 95% mom pilot screwing up and 5% x13 preparations, but whatever :) Just keep telling yourself that. G. Prove me wrong by killing another one? :) Quote: To the people saying enders messed up and x13 was there to take advantage, seriously X13 did there research i bet, they knew he would be most vulnerable after his first warp to gate, they waited for him to get into position and they pounced, probably before he got his alt logged in for cyno and everything, Gratz guys on a well thought out and well played plan. Um isnt forgetting to log on cyno alt before acting a pilot error? Neways who cares - one lame gatecamper less. I'll ask you this directly as you seem to have a view counter to mine but probably know a lot more than I do about the subject. If they jumped in the neut BS's while he was in warp, zapped him down to below cyno capable cap as soon as he was targetable (how long can it possibly take to taget something that big? o.O) and then bumped him with high mass ships continuously. How could he have escaped? Even if he was perma running a cyno alt he's only got the time in warp to make the call to try and spam the cyno out button after he reaches the gate surely? I'm assuming he jumped right on top of the gate and the BS's would have all de-cloaked within large neut range. ^^not a flame just hoping for an answer
Saint Lazarus Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:59:00 - [214] Awesome good job ^^ ------------------------------
Groox Cult of War	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:08:00 - [215] Originally by: zykerx gratz X13, kill them all Could not agree more. Eve will be a lot better place without lowsec moms.
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:09:00 - [216] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 24/09/2007 11:10:06 I still don't understand how x13 did it tbqh ... I mean, even without a cyno emergency alt, how did they manage to keep a MS bumped for 5 minutes straight, while still doing high enough dps on it to break it? Can turret dreads even hit a mothership that's being bumped constantly due to transversal? Also, are nanoBS enough to bump it? To be honest, screw the cyno emergency alt. Keeping that thing bumped is the real win here, and I can't really imagine how they did it. EDIT: Under fire from a ****ton of fighters too.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:11:00 - [217] Originally by: Revnant I'll ask you this directly as you seem to have a view counter to mine but probably know a lot more than I do about the subject. If they jumped in the neut BS's while he was in warp, zapped him down to below cyno capable cap as soon as he was targetable (how long can it possibly take to taget something that big? o.O) and then bumped him with high mass ships continuously. How could he have escaped? Even if he was perma running a cyno alt he's only got the time in warp to make the call to try and spam the cyno out button after he reaches the gate surely? He can cyno before they manage to even lock. Yes its THAT fast. And with module lag lock+activate module is slower than only cynoing out. But if he didnt cyno out, well... he died :) Ofc he could have tried using alt/friend to double web him so he can insta-warp (same as freighters), but this is a bit bump-direction dependant.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:19:00 - [218] Originally by: Heckelgruber Congratulations on a truly immense kill. I think it's really good for the game that some guys went and achieved something that people were saying isn't possible rather than complaining on the forums and calling for the game to be adapted to how they want to play. It's one of the really great things about EVE that cunning players can push the boundaries of tactics and that thought and planning can put you ahead of skillpoints and money. Well played. That's cute, you're acting like this was possible without The End having a terrible case of water on the brain
Revnant Caldari Nerd-Rage	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:21:00 - [219] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Revnant I'll ask you this directly as you seem to have a view counter to mine but probably know a lot more than I do about the subject. If they jumped in the neut BS's while he was in warp, zapped him down to below cyno capable cap as soon as he was targetable (how long can it possibly take to taget something that big? o.O) and then bumped him with high mass ships continuously. How could he have escaped? Even if he was perma running a cyno alt he's only got the time in warp to make the call to try and spam the cyno out button after he reaches the gate surely? He can cyno before they manage to even lock. Yes its THAT fast. And with module lag lock+activate module is slower than only cynoing out. But if he didnt cyno out, well... he died :) Ofc he could have tried using alt/friend to double web him so he can insta-warp (same as freighters), but this is a bit bump-direction dependant. kk fair enough, I still think x13 did a well thought out gank but w/e I'll agree to disagree. Thanks for the decent answer/response
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The Illuminati.	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:26:00 - [220] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Heckelgruber Congratulations on a truly immense kill. I think it's really good for the game that some guys went and achieved something that people were saying isn't possible rather than complaining on the forums and calling for the game to be adapted to how they want to play. It's one of the really great things about EVE that cunning players can push the boundaries of tactics and that thought and planning can put you ahead of skillpoints and money. Well played. That's cute, you're acting like this was possible without The End having a terrible case of water on the brain Typical goon responce. If it cannot be done with a uber blob or a nerf or if it takes planning and precision timing they call it luck. Crawl back under your rock or behind your noob ships or at least try to show some respect to ppl who play the game well to get good kills instead of breaking the game by spamming noob ships and shuttles.

Ricco Lonestar Minmatar SuX ltd.	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:31:00 - [221] If only sigradius was inline with real size earlier. Than this would have been X13 it's second low sec mothership kill. Great comeback X13!!! Hundreds of posts saying : "It's impossible to kill Mum in low sec". Lol/ Mad respect to the dedication putten into this.
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:32:00 - [222] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 24/09/2007 11:32:15 Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Heckelgruber Congratulations on a truly immense kill. I think it's really good for the game that some guys went and achieved something that people were saying isn't possible rather than complaining on the forums and calling for the game to be adapted to how they want to play. It's one of the really great things about EVE that cunning players can push the boundaries of tactics and that thought and planning can put you ahead of skillpoints and money. Well played. That's cute, you're acting like this was possible without The End having a terrible case of water on the brain Part of it was due to End not preparing a cyno in time. Another part of it tho was because they kept him bumped, something Outbreak failed to do vs Hera if you remember. So no, it was mostly skill.
Ventosus x13	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:33:00 - [223] Edited by: Ventosus on 24/09/2007 11:34:05 due to speculations, as stated ealier, i will post a full detailed report later today. Many of the speculations are not correct. However. Also keep in mind, that we only had a limited number of ships engaging him at first. Everyone talks about him not running off. I think he actually choosed to fight, until he realised we drained his cap. Then it was to late. If you choose to fight and win, you are a hero, if you loose, forum will kill you. ............... I will win Eve
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:35:00 - [224] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Typical goon responce. If it cannot be done with a uber blob or a nerf or if it takes planning and precision timing they call it luck. Crawl back under your rock or behind your noob ships or at least try to show some respect to ppl who play the game well to get good kills instead of breaking the game by spamming noob ships and shuttles.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The Illuminati.	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:37:00 - [225] Originally by: Ventosus Edited by: Ventosus on 24/09/2007 11:34:05 due to speculations, as stated ealier, i will post a full detailed report later today. Many of the speculations are not correct. However. Also keep in mind, that we only had a limited number of ships engaging him at first. Everyone talks about him not running off. I think he actually choosed to fight, until he realised we drained his cap. Then it was to late. If you choose to fight and win, you are a hero, if you loose, forum will kill you. It was proly due to your lack of ships that made him stick around and fight instead of running. So if using a small ammount of ships as bait to get his cap down and then call in bumpers and high dmg boys then it was a very good plan. gratz.
Vrizuh Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:48:00 - [226] Originally by: Miz Cenuij Good kill bears. Serious though wtf was the pilot doing? Was he not watching local? Did he not have cyno geny alts ready (I keep 2 logged on and in gang at all times). Shame on you noob. Anyway at least it has now proven what I have said all along, MS's CAN be taken down in low sec. So you jelous lil bears can take your cries for the nerfbat and shove em. Grow a pair, get some skills and follow x13's example. GG guys. Isn't that a bit contradictory? You express disbelief that a MS can be taken down, then make a song and dance about it being possible. I can't wait for the battle report. Mad props to X13 for their achievement. I still think that there should be more options to defeating a mom than relying on pilot incompetence. Love that 17% efficiency =)
Director Stoned Band of Developers	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:53:00 - [227] Just to set the record straight I am one of Enders friends, I often would standby with a cyno alt when he'd camp low-sec. He was always "paranoid" about traps but also one of the most gungho pilots i've ever flown with, props to the man who changed low sec pirating 4evah. After his lose I was on msn with him and from what I can gather there might have been some backstabbing from the m.corp peeps. Thats all i can say, hopefully Ender will publish his side of the story soon.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:55:00 - [228] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Heckelgruber Congratulations on a truly immense kill. I think it's really good for the game that some guys went and achieved something that people were saying isn't possible rather than complaining on the forums and calling for the game to be adapted to how they want to play. It's one of the really great things about EVE that cunning players can push the boundaries of tactics and that thought and planning can put you ahead of skillpoints and money. Well played. That's cute, you're acting like this was possible without The End having a terrible case of water on the brain Typical goon responce. If it cannot be done with a uber blob or a nerf or if it takes planning and precision timing they call it luck. Crawl back under your rock or behind your noob ships or at least try to show some respect to ppl who play the game well to get good kills instead of breaking the game by spamming noob ships and shuttles. You got kicked out of Fatal for being worse at posting than armois is at talking confirm/deny? Originally by: Swamp Ziro Part of it was due to End not preparing a cyno in time. Another part of it tho was because they kept him bumped, something Outbreak failed to do vs Hera if you remember. So no, it was mostly skill. I'm not saying that x13 didn't do well. They did fantastically, just that the kill would have been impossible if The End weren't stupid. x13 capitalized on that stupid magnificently
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions Cult of War	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:59:00 - [229] Oh my....it certainly takes a "special" amount of skill to manage to lose your MS in Low-Sec. Congrats on your monumental achievement Ender.
De Vito Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:59:00 - [230] Edited by: De Vito on 24/09/2007 11:59:14 Oo nice one edit: Eμπιστoσύνη δε xaρiζετaι, kaτakτιέτa

Heckelgruber Quam Singulari M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:02:00 - [231] Originally by: Alias11 That's cute, you're acting like this was possible without The End having a terrible case of water on the brain Let's be honest - I don't think we know enough about the exact circumstances of the kill (I don't at any rate) to know how much of what happened is due to perfect planning/execution and how much is a sheer indictment of The End's intellect. The kindest theory about what happened to The End would have to be that he was dropped to < 70% as he came out of warp. This theory would be that he had very little time to save his ship by jumping and he made the wrong decision under pressure. I think this is unlikely because: A Nyx with top cap skills has 84375 cap at 100%. To remove 30% of his cap to stop him from jumping would mean taking away about 25300 (assuming The End had no Semi Mem Cell rigs). A TII Neut neuts 600 cap/cycle, so to do this in one coordinated volley would take about 42 neuts, probably eight battleships. I see 5 BSs on the killmail although I think someone said there were more ships and the carriers could have packed neuts too (supposedly the caps jumped in later though). This is speculative but it's my guess that The End did have a bit longer to decide whether to leave or not, so some hubris (or water on the brain) may have contributed to his demise. At any rate, he is the first to lose a Mummy in losec, nobody can take THAT away from him :) I look forward to the FRAPS and report to see if we can understand what happened.
Kriger x13	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:07:00 - [232] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean It was proly due to your lack of ships that made him stick around and fight instead of running. So if using a small ammount of ships as bait to get his cap down and then calling in bumpers and high dmg boys to pop him was the idea then it was a very good plan. gratz. Never underestimate ppls overconfidence ;) And thurough planning. Execution went outright perfect (im still a bit awestruck at how well every little detail went). I wont go into details and ruin Vento's upcoming report, but this was obviously based partly on baiting The End, even if it was a bait that still required pinpoint precision from x13 with things having to be coordinated with litterally single seconds as margins. It all worked out, The End couldnt get out, and we took him down in a matter of minutes. No doubt The End wasnt the most competent MS pilot, but tbqh i think even more skilled MS pilots could have sucommed to this tactic, especially when ppl have the notion that their MS is invincible ;) .:: Kriger's gfx Factory :: x13 ::.
Ventosus x13	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:12:00 - [233] Quote: I see 5 BSs on the killmail although I think someone said there were more ships and the carriers could have packed neuts too (supposedly the caps jumped in later though). Quote: Killmail was truncated. Your math is correct, but number of ships is incorrect. Timing and math behind it will be revealed later today. ............... I will win Eve
ZaKma Seraphin Technologies Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:14:00 - [234] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: ZaKma Well, if I was flying a 20b+ ship I'd be damn paranoid. Especially if local suddenly rises by 5+ on my gate. They might be able to get him bellow 70% instantly, however with a good lowsec fit he'd use injectors and less tank stuff and more cap stuff so he'd probably get past 70% and jump (neut cycle time = 24 seconds, plenty of time). Also I'd have a few friends nearby in full cap transfer guardian setups as backup. Not saying it's impossible, but with a pilot that knows what he's doing and is fit properly for lowsec camping.. it's extremely difficult. If you were flying a 20b+ ship, chances are that we'd already have laughed over your loss in here, I suppose. If you would really fit cap boosters, that is (how many would you fit to keep up with 6+ neutralizing BS, eh?). Anyway, the way x13 planned and executed this, it would have taken a lot of luck or a special fitting just for this occasion to escape. Everyone who is flaming the MS pilot is obviously too stupid to understand this. You don't have to 'keep up' with them. Their cycle time is 24 seconds. The cap boosters would give you enough of a boost to get past 70% and jump (with the number of BS x13 had). A lowsec mom fitting should be different than a 0.0 mom fitting where you have multiple moms/carriers as support. I'm not trying to downplay what x13 did here. They planned it and executed it extremely well. But with a more paranoid/experienced pilot it would've looked different. And if I was flying one I wouldn't use it for lowsec camping.
Mazca Lopez The Biomass Venture Campaign	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:17:00 - [235] (ooc) Danish FTW I would know cause i am one... (ic) the Biomass Ventures campaign would like to take this oppertunity to congratulate x13 for an epic kill. As our business describtion states we collect biomass, and i am intrigued to know what happened to the caapsule, and if it was destroyed, if you would consider donating the biomass to the campaign, as supercapabel-biomass would be of great value to us, and our emploier. Best regards
Heckelgruber Quam Singulari M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:25:00 - [236] Edited by: Heckelgruber on 24/09/2007 12:24:56 Originally by: Ventosus Killmail was truncated. Your math is correct, but number of ships is incorrect. Timing and math behind it will be revealed later today. Hehe, look forward to it
Ventosus x13	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:26:00 - [237] Originally by: ZaKma The cap boosters would give you enough of a boost to get past 70% and jump (with the number of BS x13 had). Let me put this straight. He couldt cyno off. Not with cap boosters or anything. ............... I will win Eve
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:44:00 - [238] Originally by: Heckelgruber Originally by: Alias11 That's cute, you're acting like this was possible without The End having a terrible case of water on the brain Let's be honest - I don't think we know enough about the exact circumstances of the kill (I don't at any rate) to know how much of what happened is due to perfect planning/execution and how much is a sheer indictment of The End's intellect. The kindest theory about what happened to The End would have to be that he was dropped to < 70% as he came out of warp. This theory would be that he had very little time to save his ship by jumping and he made the wrong decision under pressure. I think this is unlikely because: A Nyx with top cap skills has 84375 cap at 100%. To remove 30% of his cap to stop him from jumping would mean taking away about 25300 (assuming The End had no Semi Mem Cell rigs). A TII Neut neuts 600 cap/cycle, so to do this in one coordinated volley would take about 42 neuts, probably eight battleships. I see 5 BSs on the killmail although I think someone said there were more ships and the carriers could have packed neuts too (supposedly the caps jumped in later though). This is speculative but it's my guess that The End did have a bit longer to decide whether to leave or not, so some hubris (or water on the brain) may have contributed to his demise. At any rate, he is the first to lose a Mummy in losec, nobody can take THAT away from him :) I look forward to the FRAPS and report to see if we can understand what happened. how much cap a MS spend after a long warp? (really have no idea on that) But this may be taken into account. Also a few Bombers with Capacitor kill bombs could help a lot :) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:45:00 - [239] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Also a few Bombers with Capacitor kill bombs could help a lot :) LOWSEC
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:16:00 - [240] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Kagura Nikon Also a few Bombers with Capacitor kill bombs could help a lot :) LOWSEC I amno bomber pilot, don know where they work :P If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough



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