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When is the next mirror?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.07.27 17:49:00 - [61] Edited by: Kil''Roy on 27/07/2008 17:50:29 Originally by: Hari Sel'don Can we PLEASE have a new mirror, it has been over two months since the last one! No, it hasn't been 2 months yet. Actually, it's been about 1 month and 3 weeks. Some people are still testing some things they recently got. Learn patience, or is that something you've never heard of? They will do a mirror when "They" need one, not because people are crying their little hearts out for one.
Hari Sel'don Gallente Isonami Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.27 19:59:00 - [62] Originally by: Kil'Roy Edited by: Kil''Roy on 27/07/2008 17:50:29 Originally by: Hari Sel'don Can we PLEASE have a new mirror, it has been over two months since the last one! No, it hasn't been 2 months yet. Actually, it's been about 1 month and 3 weeks. Some people are still testing some things they recently got. Learn patience, or is that something you've never heard of? They will do a mirror when "They" need one, not because people are crying their little hearts out for one. "A new mirror to Singularity has been applied to Singularity on May 20th, 2008. The mirror was taken on May 5th." Mate I didnt ask your your opinion on the matter, I was simply voicing my desire for a new mirror. Please, yes, it has been over two months.
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.07.27 23:29:00 - [63] Originally by: Hari Sel'don "A new mirror to Singularity has been applied to Singularity on May 20th, 2008. The mirror was taken on May 5th." Mate I didnt ask your your opinion on the matter, I was simply voicing my desire for a new mirror. Please, yes, it has been over two months. Your first mistake is to asume that each time they apply a mirror, they post about it. You must be new to the test server. That mirror was short lived. Another was appled the beginng of june. Your second mistake is to assume that someone would care if that you didn't ask for their opinion. Welcome to Eve! Obvisiouly you are new around here.
Hari Sel'don Gallente Isonami Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.28 00:26:00 - [64] Originally by: Kil'Roy Originally by: Hari Sel'don "A new mirror to Singularity has been applied to Singularity on May 20th, 2008. The mirror was taken on May 5th." Mate I didnt ask your your opinion on the matter, I was simply voicing my desire for a new mirror. Please, yes, it has been over two months. Your first mistake is to asume that each time they apply a mirror, they post about it. You must be new to the test server. That mirror was short lived. Another was appled the beginng of june. Your second mistake is to assume that someone would care if that you didn't ask for their opinion. Welcome to Eve! Obvisiouly you are new around here. I have not used the test server in a while and simply assumed that an official thread would be correct, so that is not a mistake. Besides, it was not like my estimate was out by a few months, it was out by a mere few days! I am far from now around here, I simply choose not to succumb to the general atmosphere of arrogance radiated by people like yourself! So once again, your opinion is not desired.
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.07.28 00:48:00 - [65] If you are not new around here, then you "should" know that they don't put a new mirror on Sisi based upon how many people want one, but when there is a need for one based upon "Internal Test Requirements". You might as well ask them for a new computer while you are at it.
Moirae Arachnea	Posted - 2008.07.28 02:40:00 - [66] Just a question concerning SiSi from someone that has just discovered how to use it (yeah yeah I know... I'd heard of it, but hadn't gone over and checked it out)... If my memory of server incremental backups is correct, and it's been a few years since I ran one so my tech is outdated, please be patient, but.. is TQ's backups updated incrementally? or at DT? If so, and of course NOT knowing exactly what your OS and Hardware is specifically, couldn't a script be written to incrementally update SiSi at it's DT?? I've done DB backups and updates ( I ran mirrored websites) and while none of it has ever been on the scale of an MMO, the script isn't particularly difficult to write for a standard web-server. Ok, before you start screaming TQ isn't a standard web-server, I know this. But the overall principles should be similiar enough to allow for an daily incremental backup and update unless the program, db, os etc is far different than I am thinking it is. The primary reason I have stated the above is this. I have 4 accounts. only two can access SiSi since it appears they were created AFTER the last mirror. I'd like to be able to test some of the nano related adjustments with my minmatar character who is just a few weeks away from flying a Vagabond. If the adjustments are such that with his current skills, he will be effectively neutralized, then I am going to need to adjust and test my skilling to make the ship more viable within the game. I would hate to have spent so much isk on a ship that even before I can fly it, becomes effectively worthless to me for now. If the nano adjustments make it so a low SP character can't fly a Vagabond as it was designed to fly, then imma haffa adjust and find a niche it can fit, cause I sure ain't gonna let it gather dust. But I can't really test this if the character doesn't exist on SiSi. So... here is hoping a new mirror is due soon. Moirae Arachnea Fix the BIO! You can't delete a link from your BIO if the link was the first thing you placed in your bio!
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.07.28 03:09:00 - [67] Edited by: Kil''Roy on 28/07/2008 03:11:19 The answer is in the first post of this thread, although, not in all the detail you are asking for. The copy task is easy compared to the internal work that is needed, such as removing POSes and ETC. Originally by: ISD BH Desryn Edited by: ISD BH Desryn on 20/01/2008 03:17:43 Current mirror date: 17th January 2008 -------------------------------------------- Since so many people keep asking the question of when the next mirror is, here is the answer. Mirrors are only made when the devs have a reason to need an updated one. Mirrors take quite some time and work to create which is why they're not done that often. To make a mirror to singularity takes around 2 hours of downtime to copy the tranquility database, followed by a day or more of work internally to prepare the database for use. It is therefore not feasible to do this regularly. Asking the same question that's already been asked by hundreds of others before you will not change the answer. As for skills, If you want more skills on Singularity, start training them on Singularity. So when is the next mirror? SoonÖ
Moirae Arachnea	Posted - 2008.07.28 03:28:00 - [68] Edited by: Moirae Arachnea on 28/07/2008 03:33:58 Originally by: Kil'Roy The answer is in the first post of this thread, although, not in all the detail you are asking for. The copy task is easy compared to the internal work that is needed, such as removing POSes and ETC. hmm wasn't particularly asking for a new mirror as hoping one would be forthcoming soon as I have characters on accounts NOT on SiSi atm. I know that there is a lot involved with DB updates if you have to go in and make changes like you described, although I am not sure why they can't just do a true mirror rather than an adjusted one which would make more sense. oh wait no, I see what your saying. remove all GSC's etc, all PoS etc, to give the server a clean "baseline" for testing rather than one cluttered with extraneous garbage. The only problem I can see with that is it then ensures that SiSi isn't a true rep of whats going on and happening with tq. Anyhoo.. Hope one happens soon so I can test ALL my characters. MA edit Not having a great knowledge of the mechanics involved with mirroring an MMO server (like EVE's) and all that is required or involved, take my statements with a grain of salt as I am sure there is a great deal involved that I have little or no experience with, and my lack of knowledge of that may be showing here. ~MA Fix the BIO! You can't delete a link from your BIO if the link was the first thing you placed in your bio!

CCP Oneiromancer	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:19:00 - [69] We will try to put a new mirror on Singularity this week. To answer the question above, yes, it would be possible to make an incremental periodical update between the two databases, however it is not feasible for us. I'm going to explain a bit how the mirroring process works and why we have to prune the database we deploy on the public test servers before. A full backup of the Tranquility database is made periodically and stored on a server. That database is then copied onto Singularity or Multiplicity - the process takes around 7 hours. The copied database is then pruned in order to remove starbases and the moon minerals scrambled. This is done to prevent scouting on the test server of starbase locations and moon resources. The database is further edited with the following: * ETC accounts are edited so that they do not expire when the ETC payment runs out. * All accounts are voice enabled. * Agent memory is removed (standings and loyalty points). * S&I jobs are removed (this is done in order to prevent starbase S&I jobs from being stuck. * The market is seeded so that all market items cost 100 ISK and are in plentiful supply. At least one station per constellation is market seeded like this. * Other adjustments for our internal use. This process takes around 4 hours, then the database is deployed on the Singularity server. Depending on possible complications with the database copying, editing or with the server starting up after the database is deployed, the whole process can take up to 2 days. I hope this answers your questions.

Bronson Hughes The. Conspiracy	Posted - 2008.07.28 12:01:00 - [70] Thanks for the post CCP Oneiromancer. Regardless of the processing behind it, I am happy to hear that there should be a new mirror soon; I'm just wrapping up a few long trains and would like to test them out on SiSi. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne

Moirae Arachnea	Posted - 2008.07.28 12:27:00 - [71] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer I hope this answers your questions. It answers them perfectly, thank you. I now have a fuller understanding of what a mirror for your servers take, and why it is more complicated than a normal back-up. o/ I look foreward to trying my newer accounts in SiSi! lol. MA
Nightelf Mowhawk	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:16:00 - [72] the mirror today or is sisi just offline for some reason
verde bandit Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:27:00 - [73] Afaik it's just a version change. And if I'm not wrong, in order to do a mirror, TQ has to go in an extended downtime.
Hari Sel'don Gallente Isonami Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:40:00 - [74] Originally by: verde bandit Afaik it's just a version change. And if I'm not wrong, in order to do a mirror, TQ has to go in an extended downtime. Why would TQ have to go into extended downtime? All they would be doing is copying the database...
verde bandit Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:42:00 - [75] Maybe it takes longer than you think ?
Zarthanon Gallente TEAMSTERS	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:53:00 - [76] Edited by: Zarthanon on 31/07/2008 11:54:37 They obviously make incremental backups of their database for security reasons. They don't have to go into an extended DT on TQ to get a database mirror, they should just have to copy it from a recent backup. Either way, give it time. They obviously want our input on these changes and need as much help as they can get seeing it's nature. Just wait, it'll happen, waiting for a mirror never got anyone podded. I like pie.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:59:00 - [77] It takes a short time to make a db dump, copying it to the server, tweaking the db for testing services easily takes a day, Sisi doesn't have to be offline for the most part, TQ has nothing to do with this part. Some of the db tweaks are a lot easier to do in game, at which point, after a DT to migrate to the new db build, there will be a nice 'not accepting connections' time in which a few devs work their asses off to get it ready.. A new version was tested on sisi today, but they removed it again. See this for more info. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.07.31 15:05:00 - [78] Edited by: Mira O''karr on 31/07/2008 15:06:54 thanks for putting a new mirror <3

CCP Oneiromancer	Posted - 2008.07.31 15:11:00 - [79] I have some more news about the mirror: the person in Operations who is in charge of moving the database copy over to the Singularity network is on vacation and won't be back until next Monday. So the mirror will not be this week, unfortunately.

verde bandit Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:05:00 - [80] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer I have some more news about the mirror: the person in Operations who is in charge of moving the database copy over to the Singularity network is on vacation and won't be back until next Monday. So the mirror will not be this week, unfortunately. RABBLE RABBLE ! :p Well maybe someone who's not in vacations could easily take over this transferring duty, couldn't it ? I mean, doesn't seem very hard or very long either to me :)

KingCappo Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:18:00 - [81] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer I have some more news about the mirror: the person in Operations who is in charge of moving the database copy over to the Singularity network is on vacation and won't be back until next Monday. So the mirror will not be this week, unfortunately. Is there any way to get an additional week or so of testing added to the timetable for the speed changes? Many pilots cannot test the changes on sisi very well, because they have seen dramatic changes to their skills in the two months since the last mirror.
Hari Sel'don Gallente Isonami Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:42:00 - [82] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer I have some more news about the mirror: the person in Operations who is in charge of moving the database copy over to the Singularity network is on vacation and won't be back until next Monday. So the mirror will not be this week, unfortunately. Copying and pasting must be so difficult for someone untrained. Ask the janitor to push the five necessary keys instead
Bronson Hughes The. Conspiracy	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:27:00 - [83] Originally by: Hari Sel'don Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer I have some more news about the mirror: the person in Operations who is in charge of moving the database copy over to the Singularity network is on vacation and won't be back until next Monday. So the mirror will not be this week, unfortunately. Copying and pasting must be so difficult for someone untrained. Ask the janitor to push the five necessary keys instead Yes, but the Janitor doesn't know the passwords necessary to log onto the database servers.... -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:34:00 - [84] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer Informative posts..... Thank you. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
Hari Sel'don Gallente Isonami Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Originally by: Hari Sel'don Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer I have some more news about the mirror: the person in Operations who is in charge of moving the database copy over to the Singularity network is on vacation and won't be back until next Monday. So the mirror will not be this week, unfortunately. Copying and pasting must be so difficult for someone untrained. Ask the janitor to push the five necessary keys instead Yes, but the Janitor doesn't know the passwords necessary to log onto the database servers.... Give him the passwords then lol
Unyeilding Faith	Posted - 2008.08.02 14:33:00 - [86] why do forums attract people who need to be thrown out an air-lock?
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.02 15:36:00 - [87] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer We will try to put a new mirror on Singularity this week. To answer the question above, yes, it would be possible to make an incremental periodical update between the two databases, however it is not feasible for us. I'm going to explain a bit how the mirroring process works and why we have to prune the database we deploy on the public test servers before. A full backup of the Tranquility database is made periodically and stored on a server. That database is then copied onto Singularity or Multiplicity - the process takes around 7 hours. The copied database is then pruned in order to remove starbases and the moon minerals scrambled. This is done to prevent scouting on the test server of starbase locations and moon resources. The database is further edited with the following: * ETC accounts are edited so that they do not expire when the ETC payment runs out. * All accounts are voice enabled. * Agent memory is removed (standings and loyalty points). * S&I jobs are removed (this is done in order to prevent starbase S&I jobs from being stuck. * The market is seeded so that all market items cost 100 ISK and are in plentiful supply. At least one station per constellation is market seeded like this. * Other adjustments for our internal use. This process takes around 4 hours, then the database is deployed on the Singularity server. Depending on possible complications with the database copying, editing or with the server starting up after the database is deployed, the whole process can take up to 2 days. I hope this answers your questions. why you do this over and over again. you could just copy skill data.
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.02 20:07:00 - [88] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl why you do this over and over again. you could just copy skill data. I would suggest you draw up a detailed spec sheet on this process and submit it with your resume to CCP so we can all benefit from this great insight of yours.
Hari Sel'don Gallente Isonami Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.02 22:43:00 - [89] Originally by: Unyeilding Faith why do forums attract people who need to be thrown out an air-lock? I am sure, as a member of that group, you can answer your own question.
Gigi Kent Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.03 06:11:00 - [90] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer Good poast Thanks for the update, appreciated. -------------------------- Sig do what now?



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