EVE Search - CCP Please Phase Out T2 Lottery BPOS

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

CCP Please Phase Out T2 Lottery BPOS

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ghost st	Posted - 2007.09.24 00:41:00 - [1] CCP Please Phase out T2 lottery bpos. How invention currently work it is not possible to compete with a t2 bpo owner on any level, especially where ship invention is concerned. Most t2 bpos are highly researched, and the negative me/pe bpcs created by invention present no competition price wise or volume wise to a t2 bpo. Also invention had the added costs of datacores, encryption skills and data interfaces.=, and must pay a fee even when attempting to make an inferior t2 bpc. Invention has hepled make t2 more available, and has decreased the profits of the t2 bpo holders. But the t2 bpo holders still have thier isk printers, and although they make less now than they used to ther eis no denying that the t2 bpo is an isk printing device. I can understand why CCP doesnt want to phase out t2 bpos, because it would mean that someone will lose alot of money if they just bought a t2 bpo and ccp nerfed it. But that does not mean that CCP should not try to remove the economic advantage achieved through a system that CCP itself admits was broken. There are several options CCP has for doing this, CCP can be harsh and just remove the BPO (or convert it to a bpc). But I think that would be too much of an initial step and the bpos needs to be gradually phased out. I think that the first step should be to randomize the quality and runs of invention bpcs. As it is now every invention bpc comes out with me/pe at -4. But I think it would be a good to have it be random, and be somewhere between lets say 0 & -4 with just basic skills. With better skills maybe between -4 and +4, and even higher with decryptors, and best t1 named items thrown into the mix. I think runs should also be randomized in this way This would increase the pressure on the t2 bpo holders because the inventors could build items faster & cheaper than they do now, and lower the profits of the bpo holders. The next setp would be to add skill/implants/decrptyors/bpc research/etc to the game to make invtion even more viable as a direct competitor with t2 bpos. I think a definate advantage of the t2 inventors should be that they can invent many bpcs at once and therefore outproduce the bpo holders, and be able to directly compete or even undercut the price of the bpo holders. The next step would be to begin converting the bpos into max-run bpcs, as having the bpo would be a moot point because invention would be more effective.
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.09.24 00:43:00 - [2] The BPO owners will only go as low in price as the Invention people do.... You guys set the prices we use to sell our stuff afteralll because we can sell it at what you are and make more isk why do we need to go lower then that? ;p ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
Meleil	Posted - 2007.09.24 00:47:00 - [3] Do you have any idea how badly prices would go out of whack if everything t2 had to be invented? You'd be paying tonnes more per t2 item than you were before invention if you removed t2 bpo's. You're insane. ~Mel
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 00:49:00 - [4] Originally by: Popsikle The BPO owners will only go as low in price as the Invention people do.... You guys set the prices we use to sell our stuff afteralll because we can sell it at what you are and make more isk why do we need to go lower then that? ;p Because that it not competition, that is just setting the amout of isk the bpo holders can make. We need a way to be able to compete with the bpo holders. The isk-printer that is a t2 bpo needs to be removed, but i believe it should be removed at a point where having one is a moot point. And that require making it so its not economically feasable for abpo holder to compete against inventors. A bigger eve Annndd..Player Factions
Athanasios Anastasiou Art of War	Posted - 2007.09.24 00:58:00 - [5] Edited by: Athanasios Anastasiou on 24/09/2007 00:59:34 Inventers do have a way to compete... Do what most current T2 BPO owners did, buy T2 BPOs yourself. If T2 BPOs could not be transfered, then I would agree with the OP. However atm they are simply assets just like T1 BPOs.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:10:00 - [6] OP has no clue. For mods: invent 2x BPC and you already make as much iskies as BPO owner gets. If you invent more BPCs you already gain over BPO owner. For ex cap recharger t2. If i were to compete with BPO owner (he uses only BPO, i use only invention) i earn abt 4x more iskies per day than he does (as he can produce 20 mods i can produce 80). Build costs? Ok lets say that 10 CR t2 cover build costs difference, so 20 vs 70 = 3,5x advantage for me. For ships its a bit worse but still if you run multiple BPCs you win over BPO owner easily. Only BPOs that are worth using atm are some t2 ammo (long range ones) and ships which have 50/50 chance to get invented (commands/recons/ceptors). With every other t2 item inventor will always have an advantage over person who ONLY uses BPO. Ofc. if he uses BPO + invention he closes the gap. But thats a bonus for holding something worth 10+bil isk alone instead of selling it. SO pretty much - either start inventing or stop whining, coz your points are moot. And no i never felt "endangered" by t2 BPO owners. I took my chunk of the pie already and im still taking more.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:11:00 - [7] Inventors can easily compete with the BPO holders - they're not limited to creating a single item. If the price of item X drops by 40% for whatever reasons, someone who owns the BPO for that item is stuck with his 40% decreased revenue as a result. The inventor, meanwhile, can just switch to a different product.
ghost st	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Deva Blackfire OP has no clue. For mods: invent 2x BPC and you already make as much iskies as BPO owner gets. If you invent more BPCs you already gain over BPO owner. For ex cap recharger t2. If i were to compete with BPO owner (he uses only BPO, i use only invention) i earn abt 4x more iskies per day than he does (as he can produce 20 mods i can produce 80). Build costs? Ok lets say that 10 CR t2 cover build costs difference, so 20 vs 70 = 3,5x advantage for me. For ships its a bit worse but still if you run multiple BPCs you win over BPO owner easily. Only BPOs that are worth using atm are some t2 ammo (long range ones) and ships which have 50/50 chance to get invented (commands/recons/ceptors). With every other t2 item inventor will always have an advantage over person who ONLY uses BPO. Ofc. if he uses BPO + invention he closes the gap. But thats a bonus for holding something worth 10+bil isk alone instead of selling it. SO pretty much - either start inventing or stop whining, coz your points are moot. And no i never felt "endangered" by t2 BPO owners. I took my chunk of the pie already and im still taking more. The point is that these items should not exist, and they only exist becuase CCP ****** up. You are correct that mutple bpcs can outproduce the 1 t2 bpo. But the t2 bpo still has the ability to undercut you and make a steady, amount of profit at prices inventors cannot feasibly sell their items at. The problem is they still effectively print isk, the isk flow is steady and there is no source of price competition. Isk prints should not exist.
Par Bobot	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:19:00 - [9] OMFG IT WONT HAPPEN GET OVER YOURSELF!!! Really there's like 1 of these posts every hr. The green eyed monster called envy needs to be exterminated.. CCP please nerf me cause I was spamming lvl3 missions and make 20+ mill per day = 600mill per month ..
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:30:00 - [10] no thx I'm waiting for the day mine are actually worth using :) Join The Fight With Promo Today
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:31:00 - [11] CCP please phase the T2 lottery back in, the way the grind works now is simply mindnumbing. Also Known As
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:37:00 - [12] Originally by: ghost st The point is that these items should not exist, and they only exist becuase CCP ****** up. You are correct that mutple bpcs can outproduce the 1 t2 bpo. But the t2 bpo still has the ability to undercut you and make a steady, amount of profit at prices inventors cannot feasibly sell their items at. The problem is they still effectively print isk, the isk flow is steady and there is no source of price competition. Isk prints should not exist. No they dont print isk. If you think you are getting undercut, buy their stuff and sell for your price. Daily production of HACs is 40 from ALL t2 BPOs. Of this i guess abt 10-15 hit open market, rest are kept for alliance use. So you haev 10-15 ships vs abt 100 flooding market from inventors each day. If those 10 undercut you, buy em and sell at invention price. Its BASIC of trading FYI. Also your idea is moot, because some people invested iskies into BPOs even AFTER invention was released. it means CCP should pay back them what they invested? Or maybe make enough runs for BPC to pay back how much it costed? If the later - you know that break point for BPOs is abt 1 year if not more? Surprise: im both inventor and t2 BPO owner (alt does one main does other), and my invention part is easily beating crap out of BPO owner (comparison? my 7 t2 bpos make abt 500-600mil/month total, my invention nets 1bil/week = 4bil/month). As for fixing what they did screw up. Sure - but id like to get hint from "higher forces" of this beforehand so i sell all my BPOs for like 20bil, then go ahead with nerfing.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:55:00 - [13] seed T2 BPOs or make them buyable through LPs. Everyone should have a chance at T2 BPOs. The market will always remain profitable, prices will only equal or fall below production cost if someone is trying to push out competition - but the current system, both invention and the lottery won BPOs are not competative. Sure, there will be people upset that they payed `tens of billions of ISK for their BPOs, sure there will be people who will be upset that the game does not reward older players - but when it comes to the means of ship production, its is always profitable, and anyone that wants to get into the market should be able to earn a BPO through hard work, not a bunch of BPCs on a chance based system. of course, this will never happen. But thats what I think - more comeptition is good, and people should be able to strive for a solid BPO.
Sir MilBanacky Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:56:00 - [14] Correct me if I am wrong but Wasn't there a DEV blog about T2 BPO's eventually being phased out and turned to max runs somewhere down the road? Fun times I sure miss the old Days of COAD
Vandalias	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Atius Tirawa seed T2 BPOs or make them buyable through LPs. Everyone should have a chance at T2 BPOs. The market will always remain profitable, prices will only equal or fall below production cost if someone is trying to push out competition - but the current system, both invention and the lottery won BPOs are not competative. Sure, there will be people upset that they payed `tens of billions of ISK for their BPOs, sure there will be people who will be upset that the game does not reward older players - but when it comes to the means of ship production, its is always profitable, and anyone that wants to get into the market should be able to earn a BPO through hard work, not a bunch of BPCs on a chance based system. of course, this will never happen. But thats what I think - more comeptition is good, and people should be able to strive for a solid BPO. Watch the sell order forum/contracts and buy one then.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.09.24 06:00:00 - [16] Originally by: sableye no thx I'm waiting for the day mine are actually worth using :) Me too, the day they buff up ECM is day when I will be billionare! Concord offers PUNISHMENT, not protection
Greenwing SuX ltd.	Posted - 2007.09.24 06:15:00 - [17] While a T2 owner will make more profit per item, invention can make more items at the same time. So the T2 owner will make a few items with more profit, invention will make a lot of items with less profit. T2 prices have dropped massively since invention so it looks like it's doing it's intended work. Like it is now i don't see any problem with the T2 BPO's. They still make a profit but not as ridiculous as before and as a lot of people are inventing while making a decent profit invention seems ok to me. With invention you can even look at the market, see what's the most profitable item and start inventing that one, thus making more profit. It all seems pretty balanced to me. (BTW, the main problem i had with the T2 lottery is you get something for doing nothing. I really don't understand why the research points were automatically added after you have found an agent and not only after you did your daily mission.)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.09.24 07:03:00 - [18] Misconception #1 : CCP *will* remove T2 BPOs from the game No, they merely said they will be investigating alternatives into what could be happening with T2 BPOs in the future. They said one POSSIBILITY is that they MIGHT turn T2 BPOs into huge-count run copies, but they'd also need to make sure you can work with them (ME/PE research) before they can even do that. All in all, there's no guarantee T2 BPOs will remain in existance as now, but there's absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that they WON'T. It's all just possibilities right now, and to be honest, I see no good reason to remove them. Misconception #2 : T2 BPOs are all "ISK printing machines". No, sorry, they're not. There's some T2 BPOs which are very profitable, and those are (oh, my, what a coincidence) the same ones where inventors flock. Inventors set the price of "high-demand" T2 goods, as theoretically (and practically) a majority of those goods comes from invention rather than BPO manufacture. For the "not worth inventing" goods, obviously, most of them are also "not worth building from BPO" either. There's more money to be made in invention nowadays than in T2 BPO ownership, with the exception of a very small number of T2 (ship) BPOs... and even there, the profit per month per blueprint ain't that hot either. Miscoception #3 : There should be no "ISK printing machine" in EVE The whole problem stems from your inability to even put a finger on "what's an ISK printing machine". Heck, even the name is wrong, it's "ISK vacuum cleaner" if you have to be accurate. So... money making the easy way should not be allowed... Oh, really ? Tell that to the traders that never leave a certain station in the most crowded system in the galaxy. Tell that to every person claiming their datacores with RPs. Tell that to every manufacturer/researcher delivering jobs and starting new ones. Short of running missions, ratting an mining, everything that actually gets you ISK doesn't involve "grinding at it". I'm sorry you're stuck with the concept ISK should only come to those that grind, but you got EVE terribly wrong if you think that. _ [CNVTF] is recruiting \| Char creation guide \| Stack-nerfing explained
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.09.24 07:38:00 - [19] Originally by: Meleil Do you have any idea how badly prices would go out of whack if everything t2 had to be invented? You'd be paying tonnes more per t2 item than you were before invention if you removed t2 bpo's. You're insane. ~Mel what this guy says. your gonna realise how much you miss t2 bpo holders when t2 ships come in and you start whining about the t2 ship inventors oligarchy.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 07:59:00 - [20] hey almost an entire page and noone put BoB words!! times change, at last joking, but was really expecting a usual post To be honest, try to buy a BPO i give you 2 weeks before you sell it, T2 bpos are far from worth it by themselves ------ Proud Janitor of Tides of Silence
SPIONKOP Caldari Fire Suppression	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:07:00 - [21] I like my T2 BPO's. Don't make anywhere near as much ISK as they did but they are mine and I like them. Many people paid billions per BPO and even I bought a couple of the cheaper ones but I don't want to lose them. I don't have the time to work/train for invention, its not in my game plan. Good luck to the inventors, you made things so much better and my having a few BPO's is not going to affect your business. Whilst I can make good cheaper you can make more of them. --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.
fuze	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:17:00 - [22] Wonder if that person who bought the Hulk BPO for 80Bn was happy to see the darn ship went from 500M to 90M and then see his BPO converted to a limited run BPO. step 5) profit No wait.....
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:30:00 - [23] Out of curiousity, why are most threads concerning Intention and T2 asking for a nerf to T2 BPO, instead of a boost to invention?
Dinwiddy Snurdle Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:31:00 - [24] It took me 2 years of boring mission grinding for my research agents to earn some of my T2 BPO's. I also paid 16b isk that took me years to earn for a few other BPO's. I opened 2 spare accounts soley for research agents and they paid off after 2 years when I finally received a particular BPO just beofre the lottery ended. So I'd expect massive compensation from CCP if they phased out my BPO's. I suspect the majority of T2 BPO owners would feel the same way. So yes, they can phase them out as soon as they've deposited 100b isk into my account for the time and isk I put in to aquire them and also repaid me 2 years worth of subscription fees for the two research accounts I opened up specifically for the T2 lottery
Satori Karane	Posted - 2007.09.24 08:43:00 - [25] If they didn't remove the infamous sabre BPOs haded out to dev-pets what makes you think they should remove t2 BPOs that people have won or bought in an honest way? This thread fails.
Paul Darth Mother Corp	Posted - 2007.09.24 09:59:00 - [26] So its not possible to make copies from a t2 bpo? is that it? The way i see it, changing from a random thing (lottery) to another random thing (invention) doesnt solve the "problem", but at least now i can sell datacores.
kimish	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:03:00 - [27] you don't get it do you? who do you think own the bpo's t2 ingame? know ask yourself why would they remove them when they are a PAWNAGERRRRRR!!!! for them to have. especially now that they are impossible to get from the lottery. it is like making isk printers and then removing the ability for any one else to get one unless you think it is a good idea they get it. talk about balance and then throw it as far out the window as you can, then add an extra mile and there you got t2 bpo's _____ _____ "When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table."
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Akita T Misconception #2 : T2 BPOs are all "ISK printing machines". No, sorry, they're not. There's some T2 BPOs which are very profitable, and those are (oh, my, what a coincidence) the same ones where inventors flock. Inventors set the price of "high-demand" T2 goods, as theoretically (and practically) a majority of those goods comes from invention rather than BPO manufacture. For the "not worth inventing" goods, obviously, most of them are also "not worth building from BPO" either. There's more money to be made in invention nowadays than in T2 BPO ownership, with the exception of a very small number of T2 (ship) BPOs... and even there, the profit per month per blueprint ain't that hot either. Brother, ain't that the truth? I have a Foxfire Rage Rocket BPO, if anyone can find a way to make a profit using it, they're welcome to said profit just so that the thing isn't sitting on the bottom of my hangar floor. Most of these T2 BPOs aren't a quarter as good as most of you guys assume. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
Paul Darth Mother Corp	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:10:00 - [29] I prefered the random lottery and i have good skills for invention but i dont even bother with that
Irob Urore Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:12:00 - [30] problem is you cant undercut anything if your invented bpc is a -4 or -8 me run, 50 to 90% wastage unless you want to take a big loss, given the start up costs and luck involved this can really hurt the inventor.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.