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swisher
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Posted - 2004.02.17 05:31:00 -
[31]
Or just have a map for empire...and then in 0.0 space limited to only 5 jumps around your location. with a 5min lag on that :)
-swish |
Trevedian
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Posted - 2004.02.17 05:39:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 16/02/2004 23:18:51
Can you nerf the map already, it's damn near impossible for a corporation to hide an operation in 0.0 and if they're not big enough to handle both belt spawns and pirates they'll get chewed up and sent packing for empire space.
 Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah Waaaaaaaaaaah! Sniffle, sniffle
I think CCP has more pressing problems...
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Kovak
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Posted - 2004.02.17 08:17:00 -
[33]
I've always thought it would be nice to have areas of 0.0 perhaps deep 0.0 that were completely blacked out on the map. You can fly through the systems but you'll just not know whats ahead....
Would be pretty cool I think.
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Busko Moonwalker
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Posted - 2004.02.17 09:38:00 -
[34]
well the map isent 100% realtime sync.
Jumped in to many systems where it said to be 4 or 6 Pilots but when i got there not a singel soul in system.
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Sybylle
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Posted - 2004.02.17 09:45:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Map is good, don't carebear it.
Lol 
I didn't know this verb...
This one has to be used in the next CSM...
"Don't carebear the [any_stuff] !!!"
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.02.17 09:48:00 -
[36]
Cry me a river
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Agan Rafa
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Posted - 2004.02.17 12:02:00 -
[37]
Why not have the map just show 'total' ships in space (ie: including Concorde, NPC pies, convoys, etc). That way only an unusual spike in activity would be seen - and that could be an event or anything else (concorde patrol), rather than just 'player pirates up to no good'.
Should work 
Carebear extraordinaire |
Shannon Foraker
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Posted - 2004.02.17 12:19:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Shannon Foraker on 17/02/2004 12:20:51
I got to admit the map does show too much info... hell if you cant lock onto a ship over 200km away how can you know of ships on the other side of the galaxy.
What I would do is have a skill called "Long Range Scanners" which would have the info we have now but range limited to what skill level you have. Also you could scan further in empire space as CONCORD relay info to your ship.
lvl 0 - scan up to 5 jumps away in empire space or 2 jumps in non empire
lvl 1 - scan up to 10 jumps away (empire) 4 jumps (non-empire)
lvl 2 - scan up to 20 jumps away (empire) 8 jumps (non-empire)
lvl 3 - scan up to 30 jumps away (empire) 12 jumps (non-empire)
lvl 4 - scan up to 40 jumps away (empire) 16 jumps (non-empire)
lvl 5 - scan anywhere in empire or 20 jumps in non-empire.
To be honest it would make a hell of a lot more sense that way.
=========================
Shannon Foraker
Tactical Operations |
Jav Rendei
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Posted - 2004.02.17 12:20:00 -
[39]
Quote:
It does seem kinda silly that everyone miraculously have spy satellites in every system updating everyone on ship counts.
I have seen where the Map says one thing and you jump into that system and find 3 times the number of pilots or no one there. The Map is very buggy and unreliable at best. Its good for general information not for specific numbers.
Actually, I think this would be a good 'feature' to add at some point. If players could deploy spy satellites in different systems. The satellites would not only tell you how many pilots are in a system but also who those pilots are.
Would add a new dimension to espionagie, bounty hunting, and pirating.
The satellites could be countered with the appropriate skills (hacking) or modules though.
The way the map works atm doesn't make much sense from a roleplay point of view as someone mentioned, you can't get market prices for frozen food in a neighbouring region, but you know exactly how many players are in a particular system on the other side of the galaxy 
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.02.17 12:43:00 -
[40]
Quote:
The way the map works atm doesn't make much sense from a roleplay point of view as someone mentioned, you can't get market prices for frozen food in a neighbouring region, but you know exactly how many players are in a particular system on the other side of the galaxy
Where is the roleplay problem here? Jump gates simply count the ships passing through and know how many ships are in the system they are in. Gates are all in contact with each other and this information is freely shared with other pilots.
Maybe races that run the markets do not want the information spread outside the region. Regional merchants want folks to stay in their region to trade rather than have to compete with every region in the galaxy.
Just one possible way to look at this from an RP perspective that makes sense.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.17 12:45:00 -
[41]
Make such information available only from within stations?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.02.17 12:50:00 -
[42]
yes yes nerf the map yes yes.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.02.17 12:51:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Map is good, don't carebear it.
The map is carebear and pirate friendly oddly enough. A carebear(like me) can slide around peeps in dodgy territory. A pirate can camp down big mining blobs.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:21:00 -
[44]
A mapnerf that would make sense (although it might not be good and I don't know if I want it that way) :
The system you are in at the moment always has updated starmap. The neighbouring systems are a little delayed, maybe 30-60 seconds, and the next systems are even more delayed (60-120 in this case). That way, the map is more updated closer to you than further away, which would make sense - data from systems 40 jumps away could be 40 minutes delayed!
This would of course make the map system a lot more demanding, but it's shouldn't be a problem for the programmers.
The problem with this system is the places you can't reach (or can you?), the Jove area. Those areas wouldn't get updated, and there is a small problem in explaining how the starmap knows those systems even exist.
If the timer is set high enough (maybe ~1 minute), a large fleet can move from 40 jumps away and still look like it's 40 jumps away until it attacks or right before it attacks.
There are variations to this, like having a central spot where all map data goes to before redistribution and similar, and updating the map more frequently the higher sec status the system has (or perhaps the other way around? but that'd be weird), but those make less sense as it seems...
(This thread belongs in the idea forum in my opinion...)
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:23:00 -
[45]
the universe is big enough, there would be no way to track people down without the map.. (and it's not even that accurate to begin with)
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.17 14:20:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 17/02/2004 14:27:29
Sure there would, you just had to actually be in the general vicinity not only in the same galaxy.
Jash, some people do things for others than themselves, if I were concerned with my own success in any way I could get it I'd be in CA now laying the smack down on the crumbling SA, joining every last bandwagon as they arrived in station.
Yet I refuse to submit to the mob and due to my conviction that alliances are bad for the game had to turn down my last remaining veterans plea for us to seek out an alliance to join for him to see any point in staying and watch a friend over some 7 months leave.
So please spare me your selfcentered rhetorics here, I base my decisions on what would promote the game I want to see, not what gets me the best deal.
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.17 15:15:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 17/02/2004 14:27:29
Sure there would, you just had to actually be in the general vicinity not only in the same galaxy.
Jash, some people do things for others than themselves, if I were concerned with my own success in any way I could get it I'd be in CA now laying the smack down on the crumbling SA, joining every last bandwagon as they arrived in station.
Yet I refuse to submit to the mob and due to my conviction that alliances are bad for the game had to turn down my last remaining veterans plea for us to seek out an alliance to join for him to see any point in staying and watch a friend over some 7 months leave.
So please spare me your selfcentered rhetorics here, I base my decisions on what would promote the game I want to see, not what gets me the best deal.
And what would promote the game the most from what I can tell is changing it so you don't get podded again.
Fact: There is no other means to find anyone in 0.0 space
Fact: The map can and is used as an early warning system to alert of incoming.
Fact: The map has worked in this manner since beta
Fact: There have been numerous complaints when the map does not work.
Fact: You got podded
Fact: You cry 'nerf the map'
Fact: You need a cookie
Fact: I'm not giving you a cookie because you'll campaign on the forums that you deserve a fig newton instead. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.02.17 15:20:00 -
[48]
Everybody just step away from the nerf bat before they nerf everything. The we can all float in invunerable pink pods and wonder how it all happened.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.17 15:27:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 17/02/2004 15:49:07
If you had bothered to visit the Idea Lab some instead of being busy being such a self-righteous ass to actually come up with some good ideas to improve the game you'd seen such a thread there by me posted several months ago. Board regular Vel Kyri among others testified to it, so no, you're wrong again.
A nerfing of the map would mean a potentially more dangerous time for me, it would also mean I would have means to hide out in 0.0 for an extended time if I played it smart, so it really cuts both ways in that respect.
Me getting killed was again not the topic, that topic was about the Local lagging, not the map being overpowered, it lagged too but that wasn't the concern of that thread and me getting killed isn't the concern of this thread so please stop this wholesale bakery thing you're doing with all my recent threads.
I almost don't dare post anything in the Idea Lab now about corporate offices or that will end up being the raisins in this proverbial cookie you keep offering me. Then I recall you not visiting that forum and therefor cannot include this into your flat dough of assumptions.
Went and dug the thread up for you Jash, I think you can safely venture into the Idea Lab now with me having told you what to expect there.
Better put a link here.
On a curious note my frigate is called the Nerfbat.
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:23:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 17/02/2004 16:25:24
Quote:
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 17/02/2004 15:49:07
If you had bothered to visit the Idea Lab some instead of being busy being such a self-righteous ass to actually come up with some good ideas to improve the game you'd seen such a thread there by me posted several months ago. Board regular Vel Kyri among others testified to it, so no, you're wrong again.
A nerfing of the map would mean a potentially more dangerous time for me, it would also mean I would have means to hide out in 0.0 for an extended time if I played it smart, so it really cuts both ways in that respect.
A nerfing of the map means you'd be able to sit in alliance controlled space undisturbed unless someone basically drove over your ship. Sneaking into Alliance space is easy enough, if you can actually call "flying through a gate" sneaking. But what you really want is the ability to sit there for hours on end mining. Leaving the people that have invested their time and their ships to declare a region theirs with no recourse except an immensely manpower intensive search of every solar system in the region. The same people that are making themselves open targets for groups such as m0o by doing openly what you want to do through nerfing.
That's why you deserve a whole truckload of Auntie Viceroy's Homemade Oatmeal Cookies.
Quote:
Me getting killed was again not the topic, that topic was about the Local lagging, not the map being overpowered, it lagged too but that wasn't the concern of that thread and me getting killed isn't the concern of this thread so please stop this wholesale bakery thing you're doing with all my recent threads.
You're protesting too much, Danton. Hence my suspicion.
Quote:
I almost don't dare post anything in the Idea Lab now about corporate offices or that will end up being the raisins in this proverbial cookie you keep offering me. Then I recall you not visiting that forum and therefor cannot include this into your flat dough of assumptions.
Went and dug the thread up for you Jash, I think you can safely venture into the Idea Lab now with me having told you what to expect there.
Better put a link here.
On a curious note my frigate is called the Nerfbat.
I don't go to idea lab because I have a low tolerance for asinine ideas. That's where people go to float ideas they know would never survive the light of day on General Discussion. Because posting such ideas on General Discussion would bring them to the attention of people that would BBQ the idea, the author and a whole enclave fulls of bears and that's too much burnt fur for one sitting.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:36:00 -
[51]
If they will not patrol their region to find those trespassing then the region isn't theirs to hold as they clearly doesn't control it.
Now they have it too easy, should they keep logs on what members did what in what system even easier still to spot and disrupt people trespassing regions away inside their gluttonous claim.
Sure you can avoid them by jumping to the safespot, logging and then play with alts the reminder of the day as the huntingparty stay in that system and kill NPC while waiting for you to log back on. This isn't a way to get around it for small corporations and doesn't exactly promote fun and diverse gameplay, this is playing the game less and spending more time logged off than anything.
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:42:00 -
[52]
Quote:
If they will not patrol their region to find those trespassing then the region isn't theirs to hold as they clearly doesn't control it.
Now they have it too easy, should they keep logs on what members did what in what system even easier still to spot and disrupt people trespassing regions away inside their gluttonous claim.
Sure you can avoid them by jumping to the safespot, logging and then play with alts the reminder of the day as the huntingparty stay in that system and kill NPC while waiting for you to log back on. This isn't a way to get around it for small corporations and doesn't exactly promote fun and diverse gameplay, this is playing the game less and spending more time logged off than anything.
Danton, give it a rest. It was perfectly obvious what your motivation was from the start. I'm not a fan of alliances and I tend to go where I will. But I accept the risk that when doing so, someone will find me and shoot me for being there. You do not want that risk. You want to be able to go where you want, whenever you want.
That's what high sec space is for.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:50:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 17/02/2004 16:51:55
You're reading into it what you want, I want there to be less information for the fresh alt, less information about the next constellation over so that people actually have to take a risk moving into an area or get scouts to check it out and not have it all given to you on creation, it's like buying a pre-scraped lottery ticket frankly.
Not being able to see great distances also means you'd have less time to react to danger approaching and alliances with wellstructured sentry patrols would eventually get close enough to catch wind of you.
The nerfing of the map would promote more conflict not less as more people would move into 0.0 and them getting a taste of it and make themselves at home out there will lead to them considering it just that, their home and be willing to defend it at some point.
I just can't get how you fail to see the benefits of having less information thrown on you for no good reason but to sell you short of some real hands on experience.
Why would I give it a rest, it's you who have no arguments on why it should remain the same but the classic conservative mantra 'it's always been this way'.
Convert Stations
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:59:00 -
[54]
The current map offers basic knowledge that's vital for people in 0.0 to know. Evil gankers need to know where they can kill stuff and the gank-ee's need to know when people are coming up.
It's buggy, though, it -never- displays correct or up-to-date information. This needs to be fixed or at least made somewhat predictable (eg, 'live' updates every 5 minutes)
That said, is it really neccesary to see the -entire- eve universes population at the same time?
I don't think so, really. The region you're currently in, and the neighbouring regions/constellations is more tehn enough. Allows the killers to see where there's prey, forces scouting around to a limited degree and it allows the miners or whatever to see the people coming up.
I'm not a big fan of an all-powerful map 
Nice solution, eh?
ohh, whatever danton's motivation is, he's still right. realistically looking at the map, i think it is too powerful.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.17 17:39:00 -
[55]
a shiptype related "pilots in space" display would make sense to promote mixed fleets.
4 frigs, 2 cruisers or 1 BS (round it up) would look the same on the map.this would be good for the use of smaller ships.
at the moment, 3 frigs, and 2 cruisers look just as dangerous as 5 battleships. bad for business, i say.
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Hellena
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Posted - 2004.02.17 18:38:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Map is good, don't carebear it.
i could not agree more. leave the map alone. if you are out in .0 you had better be prepared for anything. plan ahead please. kthankxbye
Not Just Another Pretty Face
La Maison Hostess |
Alexis Machine
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Posted - 2004.02.17 18:54:00 -
[57]
Heh you people need to get a clue and act your age.
----------------sig----------------------------
Dtai'kai'-dte sa-de nau'gkon dtain'aun bpi-de.
if you don't wake up, i'll have to stop kissing you. all that flailing has made you sleepy. you rest while i untie you. stay here until they find you. My hand made mannequin. i won't let them get you. they'll know you're mine by the fingerprints on your throat. isn't she lovely? isn't she wonderful? like the *****s that we are, swatting flies from the wounds we design. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.17 19:17:00 -
[58]
I can't decide which one was the most non-post of those two.
Convert Stations
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