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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Fix Lag
245
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
People consistently point out that most ships in Eve Online are left by the wayside when it comes to fighting other people. Here's a list of ships that I haven't seen used very much if at all aside from perhaps mission running (in the case of the Raven and the Hyperion) that aren't basic frigates:
Arbitrator Augoror Maller Omen Caracal Moa Osprey Celestis Exequror Scythe Raven Rokh (starting to see a bit more use now that rails were buffed) Hyperion Typhoon Sentinel Kitsune Keres Hyena Revelation Phoenix Moros Naglfar Prophecy Ferox Cyclone
Now, you may be wondering, "Why are dreadnoughts on the list of ships you don't see much? They're obviously used a lot." Except that they really aren't because supercapitals do everything they do and much, much more, and when they are used, they're expected to die to supercapitals when the dreads go into siege mode because you can't rep a dread in siege mode. All the electronic attack frigates are on that list, and deservedly so because they are terrible. Most of the T1 cruisers in the game are on there--even the Osprey, which is the poor man's T1 shield logi--because they're simply terrible when compared to the three or four cruisers that people use.
The Raven (which aside from stealth bombers is the only ship in the game to use non-capital torpedoes and cruise missiles) is on there because you have to choose between having appalling range or appalling DPS. The Hyperion has some lol-who-thought-of-this active armor rep bonus paired with the still-the-worst weapon platform and slow speed. The Rokh is useless because sniping isn't a viable tactic with current probing mechanics. The Cyclone is simply inferior in every way possible to other battlecruisers. The Ferox...is essentially the Caldari's redheaded stepchild. What's a Prophecy? Have you ever seen one being flown by a player who has any idea what they're doing? I don't think I have, and I've played for years.
Dreadnoughts are absolutely terrible. Supercapitals scoff in their direction: dreadnoughts have to go into a five-minute siege mode where they are reliant on their own active rep to survive, their DPS isn't that great (don't tell me how it performs in EFT, thanks in advance you stupid scrub), they have no way of stopping supers from running away, supercapitals do the dreadnought's job of shooting structures a thousand times better, and they're ineffective against subcapitals. Can you name me a single ship that is used in fleets that relies only on its own active rep for survival besides dreadnoughts? I didn't think so. That idea died when fleet sizes surpassed fifty. Active tanks simply do not scale. And that is also why the Hyperion is utterly useless. I can't believe CCP made a trailer where an entire fleet consisted of Gallente battleships because that's exactly what people do not use for fleet fights. It's like they don't play their own game or something. During their little CCP fleet things we could see how they fit their ships: Bhaalgorns with racks of energy vampires? For PvP? I can understand using a pimp ship to fight in, but they had no idea how to fit that ship so that it was actually useful.
There is one thing that virtually all these ships have in common, however.
They all came out during 2004-2005 or thereabouts, and have not been looked at since.
CCP finally got the message that they need to rebalance ships. Except they gave one guy the job, and he's a total EFT warrior. In case you don't know what that means, an EFT warrior is someone that looks at a graph of how a ship performs in theory and then makes outrageous, incorrect conclusions about that ship which completely fall apart when actually done in-game. "Blasters and rails are fine!" the EFT Warrior Department at CCP said for years. Well, we know how that went. And so here we are, with loads of useless ships whose stats CCP hasn't adjusted since they made them. And that was seven or eight years ago in most cases. Can you think of any other MMO that has released something that hasn't changed in that long a time frame? Doesn't that tell you something?
And don't get me started on how supercapitals use the inverse of the "linear improvement in performance, exponential increase in cost" formula that determines the performance of every other ship in the game.
Also, the incompetence of the people who designed this forum meant that I had to rely on copy/pasting this entire post to save it from being lost when the "We were ganked" page displayed after I pressed preview. Get your **** together, CCP. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
506
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
the sentinel is f'ing amazing, and the arbitrator is very good at what its supposed to do. typhoons are also used quite a bit, at least in the CFC, in non-standard, disposable fleets.
you have a good point, but a pretty bad list of examples. though yeah, ships like the hyperion are inexcuseable as a tier 3 BS. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
892
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
I should read more and write less
but anyhow cruisers are getting thought about at least The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
163
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, the tier 1 bc's used to be seen a bit more often. Though that was prior to the tier 2's being released and we didn't have many options in that regard for BC hulls. I actually owned and used a Ferox for a bit, and then bought a drake the day they were implemented.
From that point on, the ferox was a rare sight. ;)
In the latest CSM minutes, it does look like CCP is planning on doing something to revitalize those hulls and give people a reason to fly them though. Both the EAS hulls and the tier 1 bc's are mentioned in specific.
And I agree with one of the posters above about the Arbitrator. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1123
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bad list. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
252
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
I remember my first beer... The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Fix Lag
245
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
I edited the list slightly, so now those that are on there deserve to be on there. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
915
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Torp Raven is primaried in PvP, which is why you don't see them so much.
Typhoon and Rokh can use torpedoes, but I agree with you about the lack of large missile platforms: the Naga would have been a wonderful torpedo platform.
You also forgot the Eagle, which is genuinely the least used ship in the game. At least Mallers are good for bait, thanks to their nifty tank.
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Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
160
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:
Augoror Omen Moa Celestis Exequror Hyperion Sentinel Kitsune Keres Hyena Prophecy Ferox
These are the ships you wouldn't catch me flying in pvp. I've seen some decent fits for some of the Electronic Attack Frigates, but what they bring to the table leaves me underwhelmed in terms of what other ships could do. The other ones you listed, I think are excellent PVP ships, in particular the Typhoon and the Cyclone are very good pvp ships if somewhat more skill intensive than their counterparts.
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Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
68
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Posted - 2012.01.21 03:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pointless topic, any nerf, buff, rebalance project will only result in a new list by the OP's argument and classiclaly missjudges the niche roles some of the above ships provide that doesnt neccesitate a mainstream comparison. |
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Mors Magne
The Red Exhilez KRYSIS.
10
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Posted - 2012.01.21 04:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't think it's CCP's fault - I love the Typhoon in big fleet battles because it's so fast you can dictate range and survive. However, it's never recommend by FCs
I think this is because us humans like to conform (look at the clothes people wear to work). |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2879
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Posted - 2012.01.21 04:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
There is only so much room on the top 20 killers.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2879
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Posted - 2012.01.21 04:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
This reminds me I need to suggest something that can be deployed to discourage ships warping into an area after its deployed and make similar ones to discourage warping off. brb.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
224
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Posted - 2012.01.21 04:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Your mom is a useless ship. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |
Fix Lag
245
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Your mom is a useless ship.
They changed it into a supercarrier like two years ago and gave it too much functionality |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
432
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
You're doing it wrong. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD
WIdot Director of Quality Control and Ironically Signing My Title to Posts To Make People ~mad~ |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
743
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Moros? Wouldn't it be one of the highest used dreads now?
I don't think much of this list. You're always going to get least used ships in Eve. |
Fix Lag
245
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Moros? Wouldn't it be one of the highest used dreads now?
All dreads are still terrible coffinboxes for fighting people with. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
64
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
It's a game of one trick ponies. These ships can do tricks nobody cares about.
True Sansha Large Armor rep Caldari navy Large Armor rep Fed navy Large Armor Rep Khanid Navy Large Armor rep
All identical.
Who uses Storyline weapons? Why is it you will find 500 Dread Guristas Brass tags on the market in the Forge and they are worth 2K, Guristas Brass tags go for 14 mill and are far mor abundant?
I won't say CCP don't know what they are doing. That's not appropriate or accurate. Over the years they added things that are obselete and either can go or be repurposed. EVE is full of junk. |
Rob Kepie
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
0
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Many cruisers and battlecruisers make themselves useful as gas harvesting ships. They might not serve ideally as PVP ships, but they can make you more isk than a Hulk. |
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
515
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Rohk is the best mining BS out there, take it off your list!
Anyway, the Maller is great, can do lvl 3s with it as long as its Sansha or Blood (other have too much EM resist for it to be effective). Omen... needs help. And the Augurer need a purpose.
The Prophecy, like most t1 BC, needs looking at.
And thats the only ships I can comment on as I haven't flown the rest. |
Hannibalx
12
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Typhoon is an absolute beast. I don't think it belongs on the list. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1289
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Posted - 2012.01.21 05:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
I saw similar list with similar "thread name" some time ago ..
However as CCP go for "making sub-BS" revamp / aka making all of the ships usefull .. not just something you will never sit in .. or you will just for the time you get to the next "usable" ship , this thread here and now seems like too little too late..
But effort is there. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
516
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Posted - 2012.01.21 09:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
You on drugs or what ? Not an expert but i think few ships don't fit this list. |
Ultim8Evil
Fly Drunk Fatal Ascension
9
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Posted - 2012.01.21 09:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:non judgement wrote:Moros? Wouldn't it be one of the highest used dreads now? All dreads are still terrible coffinboxes for fighting people with.
Poasting to confirm dreads are indeed for shooting people, not structures. |
Valei Khurelem
182
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Posted - 2012.01.21 09:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
I was about to completely agree with you then I realised you were ranting about only super caps, the problem is with the whole game and how combat is designed.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
170
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Posted - 2012.01.21 09:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:You on drugs or what ? Not an expert but i think few ships don't fit this list. That may be, but a lot - I'd even saythe majority - of EVE ships (and you can say the same for a lot of modules and LP rewards) are redundant. Not sure why it's so hard to balance ships a little (and why do we still have tiers in the first place) after 8 years but imho CCP isn't doing a particulary great job. |
VC General
No Baals Inc
36
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Posted - 2012.01.21 10:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
The Ferox is a fine ship, especially after the hybrid changes. It's now a viable blaster platform, and has always been a good sniping BC. Its ability to passive tank is almost as good as the Drake, which will soon be getting the nerf stick. |
Shin Rhea
White Wolfes
1
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Posted - 2012.01.21 12:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
I thought about posting ideas and opinions on this thread. Then i checked the OP's last posts and found out, that he just likes to flame... |
ElQuirko
The Demonfuge Malevolent Fan Club
328
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Posted - 2012.01.21 13:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote: Can you name me a single ship that is used in fleets that relies only on its own active rep for survival besides dreadnoughts? I didn't think so.
Triage carrier. And THAT is VERY common.
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
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